The consensus choice for Ghyr is north of Denagoth on the western side of the Ice Reach Mountains.
Our canon sources are XL1 and AC1. I'd also include the Rusak mini-adventures (AC3,5) for neighboring kingdoms. [Any others?] We also have a map and a basic description of history offered by Andrew at the Vaults. I would like to include Eldersphinx's ideas of an anti-human nation (Maegaluth?) - just bump it north of Ghyr and let it stretch west some degree and north to the arctic tundra line.
A few other parts of this larger region are: the Swamp of the Beast, the forested track north of the swamp (using a name from AC1), and the Arch of Fire and the ruins of Alinor in the Ice Reach.
What would you like to see incorporated into a Ghyr gazetteer?
-Old Dawg
Also it would be nice to incorporate the theft of the Heartstone into the future timeline, in a similar way like X11 was handled in the Gazetteer. This would include a sensible handling of the Master Thief Danakhriss, who is a fairly isolated figure in the module. He is such a nice guy: look at his attitude to the loss of the Heartstone. The module seems to suggest that he runs various distant cells via his HQ in Ghyr. Perhaps he has influence in Wendar and even Heldann?
He-Who-Wathces would be an important figure. IMC he is a patron of golden dragons, and it was him who sent the two dragons to help Henadin against Landryn Teriak (although my Ghyr is located in the Northern Wildlands). But anything, as long at it ties this deity to Mystara somehow.
I'm also looking forward to the notion of Thyatian soldiers travelling to Ghyr that was mentioned in the Wendar Gaz. Sounds like an interesting hook.
http://it.geocities.com/lutetius2/Mappe2/Northern_Wildlands.jpg
This map is not exactly correct (for example, the IoD should be moved about 1 hex SW), but everything inside is showed at least once in some official map. I hope it helps. I added the town of Lighthall from M4, considering the info given herein (on the coastline, halfway between Oceansend and Landfall: I chose a cape where the Landfall-Oceansend route intersects the Landfall-Helskir route; this should be a very strategical point to build a city.)
To help explaining my choices about northern wildlands hexes, here is a comparison between DotE and WotI maps (I reported WotI map to a 72 miles/hex scale to help comparison), the only two maps that show this region:
http://it.geocities.com/lutetius2/Mappe2/Confronto_mappe_Northern_Wildlands.jpg
In the Italian Message Board we are currently thinking about locating Ghyr kingdom in the Northeastern tip of Denagothian plateau, in the area immediatly west of the swamp.
In such a way we have that Ghyr is located in the eastern side of the Icereach Mountains (instead of the western side), but we preferred this location because it seemed more geographically suitable: we estimated that the map showed in XL1 shouldn't be more than 50 miles across. Moreover, we know that Ghyr is connected to the sea (due to a sponges load robbed from a caravan and stored in Danhakriss dungeon).
We are thinking also about having Ghyr as an offshot of some Essurian's province when this kingdom was at its height.
For the sake of convenience we placed Ghyr's kingdom and XL1 events in the present era (AC950-1000), instead of AC1200, due to the presence of Figgen's retirement estate in the Ierendi archipelago described in GAZ4. Figgen was the halfling who joined Mercion, Strongheart and the others in the Quest for the Heartstone of XL1 module.
Well, an interesting account of "the Crystal Wars" would be nice. These are mentioned in the introduction to the Heartstone module (albeit the module itself is a bit silly). Perhaps they might be wars against Landryn Teriak's forces, since they are supposed to be fairly recent?
Also it would be nice to incorporate the theft of the Heartstone into the future timeline, in a similar way like X11 was handled in the Gazetteer. This would include a sensible handling of the Master Thief Danakhriss, who is a fairly isolated figure in the module. He is such a nice guy: look at his attitude to the loss of the Heartstone. The module seems to suggest that he runs various distant cells via his HQ in Ghyr. Perhaps he has influence in Wendar and even Heldann?
Funny you should mention that, since I incorporated both events into my (in need of revision, to be sure) timeline. I use the events of XL-1 as set in the past (well, in 1000 AC Gaz era, anyway), and tie Dahnakriss in with the Landfall thieve's guild.
He-Who-Wathces would be an important figure. IMC he is a patron of golden dragons, and it was him who sent the two dragons to help Henadin against Landryn Teriak (although my Ghyr is located in the Northern Wildlands). But anything, as long at it ties this deity to Mystara somehow.
I use He Who Watches as more of a Gareth-like figure, myself; an object of worship and policy, from whom clerics gain their powers, but who seems to not communicate actively with his followers, and whose very existence is in question by some (perhaps the Immortals themselves). "He" may be an Old One, an Immortal (such as Minroth, who is also very hands off), or perhaps just a force or belief, but his presence and following has baffled many around.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/alumni/20060414a
It has the so-called story of Warduke...
:-) Jesper
Dungeons & Dragons has provided a fantastic gaming experience for many people, for many years, which we hope to better celebrate in this column. D&D has certainly come a long way since its first three booklets published in 1974; in 2004, the game celebrated its 30th anniversary, having evolved from the 1st edition core rulebooks in 1977-79, to the 2nd edition in 1989, to today’s version 3.5.
Revisionist history?
In the same issue, Warduke made his triumphant return, now an 18th level human fighter complete with far greater stats: AC: 34, HP: 318, S 32, I 13, W 15, D 16, Cn 28, Ch 20. His original sword +1 (flames on command) became a +3 anarchic flaming burst human bane bastard sword, and his other possessions were statted out as a dagger of venom, +3 moderate fortification adamantine ceremonial spiked half-plate, +5 bashing heavy steel shield, Warduke’s helm, amulet of health +6, gauntlets of giant strength +6, boots of speed, ring of protection +3, and a fearsome eye fiendish graft (from Fiend Folio, pg. 210).
You know, I have never been one to shy away from powerful characters, nor high level characters, heading for Immortality, etc.
But it's hard to read this paragraph and think anything other than that D&D 3.5 has become quite the power game. It reminds me of those letters people used to write into Dragon touting their immensely high level characters with vast armies at their command, etc., etc.
The difference is that at that time the editors gently ridiculed them, and everyone had a little laugh. Now it seems like they might be praised for playing the game as it was designed to be played...
Revisionist history?
What part seems revisionist? I'm not particularly well-versed in my D&D history (as far as origins and specifics) but that all seems more or less right to me?
What part seems revisionist? I'm not particularly well-versed in my D&D history (as far as origins and specifics) but that all seems more or less right to me?
I was referring to their apparent total disregard for OD&D, or more specifically the Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortal line, which was 1983-1986. Essentially they have conveniently forgotten that AD&D was not the only version of the game in that article.
Original D&D - 1974
AD&D 1st Ed. - 1977 (MM)
AD&D 1st Ed. - 1978 (PHB)
AD&D 1st Ed. - 1979 (DMG)
Basic D&D - 1977-1981
Expert D&D - 1981
Basic Set 1 - 1983
Expert Set 2 - 1983
Companion Set 3 - 1984
Master Set 4 - 1985
Immortal Set 5 - 1986
AD&D 2nd Ed. - 1989
Rules Cyclopedia - 1990
(A)D&D 3rd Ed. - 2000
(A)D&D 3.5 - 2003
I was under the impression that when they designed D&D 3rd Edition they had tried to keep the spirit of the original rules including OD&D. Perhaps I was mistaken?
In any case, the way they stated it in the part I quoted was a classic case of revisionist history, making AD&D = D&D for the convenience of the article.
Hmmm.
I don't imagine it's anything terribly sinister- the article is just a short one and a general overview. It doesn't mention all of Warduke's appearances, for that matter- he had a bunch of appearances in the D&D coloring books (TSR's Coloring Books).
I had considered dropping them a line to point out the shortcomings of their research, but then decided by the title of the article ("A Brief History") that it probably wasn't really worth it, that they only intended to give a quick summary. I suspect that is probably true of the brief recap of D&D history as well.
As long as we know the truth is out there. ;)
Are you guys involving these other characters in this project at all?
Oh, and about the history of Warduke, this part was what I disliked the most:
What were his exploits before the Greyhawk Wars? What does his face look like beneath the mask? And… can Warduke’s friendship with Strongheart ever be mended?
Before the Greyhawk wars? Ghyr is in Mystara!
Håvard
http://www.toyarchive.com/Dungeons&Dragons/Figures/1stSeriesD&D.html
I am, and have- though I may end up tweaking their origins from what I originally had (I had Strongheart, Warduke, Figgen, and Fox Fingers all from the Known World region- Karameikos/the Shires/Thyatis, respectively). I also tied in their appearance in X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield (where Strongheart is the king of Ierendi) with the D&D timeline (post-Palfrit, pre-Reston). The way it's looking now, though, I'm going to set the timeline as 1000 AC, so it may not see print (possibly as a "possible future" timeline to parallel WotI for those who wish to advance the setting).
I've also been working on including a ton of other LJN characters, both from XL-1 and from the Coloring Books (most of whom never had toys made of/for them).
I'm pretty sure that it was Old Dawg who said he didn't want to use the characters for various reasons, but for the Ghyr that I've been doing (for, yes, many, many years now) they are an integral part of the setting.
I am, and have- though I may end up tweaking their origins from what I originally had (I had Strongheart, Warduke, Figgen, and Fox Fingers all from the Known World region- Karameikos/the Shires/Thyatis, respectively). I also tied in their appearance in X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield (where Strongheart is the king of Ierendi) with the D&D timeline (post-Palfrit, pre-Reston). The way it's looking now, though, I'm going to set the timeline as 1000 AC, so it may not see print (possibly as a "possible future" timeline to parallel WotI for those who wish to advance the setting).
I've also been working on including a ton of other LJN characters, both from XL-1 and from the Coloring Books (most of whom never had toys made of/for them).
I'm pretty sure that it was Old Dawg who said he didn't want to use the characters for various reasons, but for the Ghyr that I've been doing (for, yes, many, many years now) they are an integral part of the setting.
As I see it, you either have it all, or you should just leave Ghyr out completely. Going half-way doesnt make much sense IMHO. Ofcourse, I prefer bringing it all in in some way or other as long as it is made completely Mystaran, removing all GH/FR references. Heck, maybe we can even bring in the D&D cartoon characters even though they were transferred to the FR? Ofcourse, it must all be done in a tasteful manner, removing all the childish or otherwise silly elements. Same thing goes for Warduke.
As I said before, should copyright ever become an issue, we'll just change things around enough that it becomes considered a tribute rather than plagiarism...
Håvard
The only reason I can think for anyone to care is just to have ******* matches over who belongs to whom, and that doesn't really amount to much of anything, particularly when it comes to (essentially) minor NPCs with little to no impact on a setting. I can understand it being a bigger deal when it comes to the bigger things- planes, deities, history- but in cases like Warduke- much as I like him- I have to concede that he's pretty low on the totem pole.
That being said, I'd still love to get my hands on those dang coloring books, if only to see if there is any information to mine for Ghyr. I don't know if it was only first mentioned in XL-1 or if there is any word on it in the coloring books, or if there is any other information that could be useful. I doubt there is much- the coloring books were intended for kids, after all, but it could be interesting. So far, all I know of are a couple of new NPCs that haven't appeared anywhere else.
[EDIT] Hm. That's interesting. Didn't realize you couldn't say *******. Well, in any case, I wasn't swearing or anything, though I could see where the filter might not deem that phrase appropriate for younger viewers. Just to clarify in case anyone thought I was cursing on the boards.
04/14/2006
Q: Trivia time: What is the name of Warduke's sword?
Answer:
A: For those of you who remember the origins of D&D Minis Warduke—before becoming a miniature in the War Drum set, Warduke originally appeared as a D&D action figure along with such other characters as Strongheard the paladin, Elkhorn the dwarf fighter, and Zarak the half-orc assassin.
Around the same time, Warduke and several of these characters appeared in 1983's AC 1: The Shady Dragon Inn pregenerated character accessory, as well as 1984's XL-1 Quest for the Heartstone adventure. While this later adventure listed Warduke's sword as a sword +1 (flames on command), The Shady Dragon Inn listed it as a broadsword +1 (flames on command)—and in the last line of Warduke's description stated, "He calls his sword Nightwind."
Of course, compare that to his updated stats as seen in Dungeon Magazine #105 and reflected in his D&D Minis stat card; Warduke's sword has now progressed to a +3 anarchic flaming burst human bane bastard sword!
Regards
Gary
I don't see why copyright should ever become an issue, frankly. There are at least three Blackmoors (Greyhawk, Mystara, Blackmoor); two islands of Cathos (Mystara, Greyhawk); two Keeps on the Borderlands (Mystara, Greyhawk); multiple variants of different deities (Tiamat, Lolth, Paladine, Gruumsh, Corellon Larethian, etc.).
Agreed. The comparison with Blackmoor seems very appropriate when you talk about Ghyr and its inhabitants.
The only reason I can think for anyone to care is just to have ******* matches over who belongs to whom, and that doesn't really amount to much of anything, particularly when it comes to (essentially) minor NPCs with little to no impact on a setting. I can understand it being a bigger deal when it comes to the bigger things- planes, deities, history- but in cases like Warduke- much as I like him- I have to concede that he's pretty low on the totem pole.
Reading the updated history of Warduke, and seeing the awesome 3E illustration and miniature of him actually made me like him much better.
That being said, I'd still love to get my hands on those dang coloring books, if only to see if there is any information to mine for Ghyr. I don't know if it was only first mentioned in XL-1 or if there is any word on it in the coloring books, or if there is any other information that could be useful. I doubt there is much- the coloring books were intended for kids, after all, but it could be interesting. So far, all I know of are a couple of new NPCs that haven't appeared anywhere else.
I love obscure sources like that and making use of them for Mystara. I could see how books like those could easily have a few details on various locations or even items or hints of some of the characters' past. Anything could be useful really.
If not, you can always get wild with your crayons! ;)
[EDIT] Hm. That's interesting. Didn't realize you couldn't say *******. Well, in any case, I wasn't swearing or anything, though I could see where the filter might not deem that phrase appropriate for younger viewers. Just to clarify in case anyone thought I was cursing on the boards.
****** ? I am shocked
Håvard
PS: Sorry, but its friday and im about to get off work here... :D
****** ? I am shocked
Håvard
PS: Sorry, but its friday and im about to get off work here... :D
Actually I've been trying to work out what on earth he said that could be censored so accidentally. :D
Actually I've been trying to work out what on earth he said that could be censored so accidentally. :D
What?! Never been camping and have a contest to see who could shot the farthest or spell their name in the snow? :P (Way off topic; I'll stop now)
What?! Never been camping and have a contest to see who could shot the farthest or spell their name in the snow? :P (Way off topic; I'll stop now)
Thanks, I got it now. :embarrass ;)
After having read through the Denagoth and Wendar Gaz'es, I'm dying to get my hands on a gaz for this realm, as well as the Northern Wildlands one...
Håvard
How is this project going?
After having read through the Denagoth and Wendar Gaz'es, I'm dying to get my hands on a gaz for this realm, as well as the Northern Wildlands one...
Obviously things may have changed but OldDawg's initial release schedule was as shown below. So you have a bit a wait for Ghyr, although the Thanegioth Archipelago will be useful especially seeing that the next Dungeon Adventure Path starts about then.
Regards
Gary
1) Denagothian Plateau (due April 31)
2) Northern Wildlands (due June 30)
3) Thanegioth Archipelago (due August 31)
4) Ghyr and lands north (due Oct 31)
5) Black Mountains (due Dec 31)
Numbers 4 and 5 are tentative, based on upon speed of production and life's demands.
Still looking for "The Lost Wand" and the "AD&D Characters Coloring Book" to complete the collection...
I've decided to switch the order of release on the Thanegioth Archipelago/Sea of Dread and the Kingdom of Ghyr projects. Want to finish the Idris region before I lose my train of thought.
Andrew, could you prepare some summaries for these coloring books, as well as any ideas that you had on the region?
-OldDawg
I've decided to switch the order of release on the Thanegioth Archipelago/Sea of Dread and the Kingdom of Ghyr projects. Want to finish the Idris region before I lose my train of thought.
I am happy to hear this! Not because I'm not looking forward to seeing the Thanegioth Gaz (I am!), but because the Wendar and Denagoth ones have really peaked by interest for the region.
I am happy to see that you are working with Andrew on this one, since I have been basing my impressions of Ghyr so far on what he has posted on that country in the past.
Håvard
Would anyone like to make a suggestion?
-OldDawg
PS: after much debate, the LJN line (and I mean the whole shebang) will be included in the upcoming products. A separate campaign arc, just for them, will also be included.
There will be a few days' delay in the Ghyr gazetteer. Want to give it a final read through with fresh eyes. It will be up on Monday by 5pm EDT
As a heads up, I think you all will be pleased with the general product as well as the integration with the first three gaz's. There are some takes on the avenger that might be timely given the recent variant-paladin postings, plus a new way to handle jousts.
The LJN characters will probably engender an "interesting" ;) and lively discussion since they are presented as they were at the time just before the Quest for the Heartstone. And at least one character's nature will surprise the casual Mystaraphile.
-OldDawg