Starting Levels - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Starting Levels

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Mar 14, 2006 18:46:53 Okay...

I've skimmed through the Athas.org 3d rules. I'm slowly working my way though the 3d core rules. One quick question. In 2d, characters started at 3rd level. Is this still necessary with the 3d conversion, or do you simply start at first level?

Thanks,
Glasswalker33
#2
dirk00001
Mar 14, 2006 20:05:07 Not really necessary, as the DS 3e rules are meant to be balanced as with other 3e material. I rarely start PCs in my games off at 1st level, but that's really just a personal choice.
#3
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Mar 14, 2006 23:12:17 Not necessary, no. Just like the 2e Dark Sun die rolls aren't necessary. Athas.org had to make the Dark Sun rules compliant with the 3.5e mechanics and CR system, so it was made quite a bit more flexible in many ways.

Personally -- I use the point-buy method for stat generation, and start my campaigns at level 4 -- which is the highest ECL for any of the starting races I usually have available -- the Thri-Kreen (XPH) or Half-Giants (Nytcrawlr's modified version).
#4
flindbar
Mar 15, 2006 5:58:20 I also never start PCs at first level.
Usually its third.
Again, I use a points buy system too.

#5
ruhl-than_sage
Mar 15, 2006 7:07:17 The only reason you might "need" to start at 3rd level is so that player's can be Thri-Kreen or Half-Giants. If you don't start at at least 2nd level then player's wouldn't be able to play as Mul or Aarakocra either.
#6
jon_oracle_of_athas
Mar 15, 2006 7:55:43 I start my campaigns at 3rd level. In fact this has become a standard regardless of campaign setting in our gaming group. We also use a point-buy variant with a 1-for-1 point cost.
#7
dirk00001
Mar 15, 2006 9:27:40 3rd level seems to be a pretty common starting level for 3/3.5e games, I've found - I think I've only ever run 1 game that started at 1st level, and only played in 1 that started the PCs at 1st.
3rd is nice since (as others have pointed out) it's not only a requirement for the more basic ECL races, but it also gives characters enough hit points, basic class abilities and feats to be able to "fill their role" in the group.
The lowest level I normally start PCs at is 4th, because I encourage multi-classing and it bothers me when things aren't symetrical. :D
#8
zombiegleemax
Mar 15, 2006 16:26:29 Now I feel like I'm showing my age...

ECL? What is this abreviation?
The point buy variation is in the 3.5d DMG, correct?
There's a level restriction to be a certain race? Where and why?
And where could I find Nytcrawlr's version of the Half-Giant?

Sorry to be so ill-informed. Heh, with my luck, the guys will end up deciding they don't really want to learn 3d, and we'll end up playing what we know.

Thanks again for all the info, gang.
#9
ruhl-than_sage
Mar 15, 2006 17:27:30
ECL? What is this abreviation?

It stands for Effective Character Level. Which is the added total of your levels in all classes, your LA (or Level Adjustement), and your Racial Hit Dice.

Most characters do not have a LA or Racial Hit Dice, these things are merely used to balance more powerful races with the standard races. Some races only have a Level Adjustment, but no Racial Hit Dice; Drow for instance are an LA +2 race, meaning you have to be ECL 3 to play one (1 for your first class level and 2 for your LA). The reason they have this adjustment is the Spell Resistance, Spell-like abilities, and Additional Attribute points they have.

Racial Hit Dice are used as a way to make creatures with powerful abilities more playable and as a way to set a minimum strength for the race in terms of hit dice and combat ability. It simply doesn't make sense for a Hill Giant for instance to only have one hit die and no base attack bonus. The quality of a racial hit die does not compare favorably to having actual class levels, so a race that has racial hit dice can have a lower LA and still be balanced with other races.

The point buy variation is in the 3.5d DMG, correct?
There's a level restriction to be a certain race? Where and why?
And where could I find Nytcrawlr's version of the Half-Giant?

Yes, Point-Buy is in the DMG.
Some races are more powerful then others, see above.
Check the archive, though I'm not entirely sure that its in there.

Sorry to be so ill-informed. Heh, with my luck, the guys will end up deciding they don't really want to learn 3d, and we'll end up playing what we know.

Thanks again for all the info, gang.

Heh, no problem. It's really a lot easier then it sounds. There is just more depth to the game now. The basic rules are very easy and if you don't want to deal with level adjustments yet then just don't allow your players to play races that require them.
#10
huntercc
Mar 16, 2006 8:14:37
Check the archive, though I'm not entirely sure that its in there.

It's there, under part 7 Homebrew Rules

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 14, 2006 18:46:53	Okay... I've skimmed through the Athas.org 3d rules. I'm slowly working my way though the 3d core rules. One quick question. In 2d, characters started at 3rd level. Is this still necessary with the 3d conversion, or do you simply start at first level? Thanks, Glasswalker33
#2 dirk00001 Mar 14, 2006 20:05:07	Not really necessary, as the DS 3e rules are meant to be balanced as with other 3e material. I rarely start PCs in my games off at 1st level, but that's really just a personal choice.
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Mar 14, 2006 23:12:17	Not necessary, no. Just like the 2e Dark Sun die rolls aren't necessary. Athas.org had to make the Dark Sun rules compliant with the 3.5e mechanics and CR system, so it was made quite a bit more flexible in many ways. Personally -- I use the point-buy method for stat generation, and start my campaigns at level 4 -- which is the highest ECL for any of the starting races I usually have available -- the Thri-Kreen (XPH) or Half-Giants (Nytcrawlr's modified version).
#4 flindbar Mar 15, 2006 5:58:20	I also never start PCs at first level. Usually its third. Again, I use a points buy system too.
#5 ruhl-than_sage Mar 15, 2006 7:07:17	The only reason you might "need" to start at 3rd level is so that player's can be Thri-Kreen or Half-Giants. If you don't start at at least 2nd level then player's wouldn't be able to play as Mul or Aarakocra either.
#6 jon_oracle_of_athas Mar 15, 2006 7:55:43	I start my campaigns at 3rd level. In fact this has become a standard regardless of campaign setting in our gaming group. We also use a point-buy variant with a 1-for-1 point cost.
#7 dirk00001 Mar 15, 2006 9:27:40	3rd level seems to be a pretty common starting level for 3/3.5e games, I've found - I think I've only ever run 1 game that started at 1st level, and only played in 1 that started the PCs at 1st. 3rd is nice since (as others have pointed out) it's not only a requirement for the more basic ECL races, but it also gives characters enough hit points, basic class abilities and feats to be able to "fill their role" in the group. The lowest level I normally start PCs at is 4th, because I encourage multi-classing and it bothers me when things aren't symetrical. :D
#8 zombiegleemax Mar 15, 2006 16:26:29	Now I feel like I'm showing my age... ECL? What is this abreviation? The point buy variation is in the 3.5d DMG, correct? There's a level restriction to be a certain race? Where and why? And where could I find Nytcrawlr's version of the Half-Giant? Sorry to be so ill-informed. Heh, with my luck, the guys will end up deciding they don't really want to learn 3d, and we'll end up playing what we know. Thanks again for all the info, gang.
#9 ruhl-than_sage Mar 15, 2006 17:27:30	ECL? What is this abreviation? It stands for Effective Character Level. Which is the added total of your levels in all classes, your LA (or Level Adjustement), and your Racial Hit Dice. Most characters do not have a LA or Racial Hit Dice, these things are merely used to balance more powerful races with the standard races. Some races only have a Level Adjustment, but no Racial Hit Dice; Drow for instance are an LA +2 race, meaning you have to be ECL 3 to play one (1 for your first class level and 2 for your LA). The reason they have this adjustment is the Spell Resistance, Spell-like abilities, and Additional Attribute points they have. Racial Hit Dice are used as a way to make creatures with powerful abilities more playable and as a way to set a minimum strength for the race in terms of hit dice and combat ability. It simply doesn't make sense for a Hill Giant for instance to only have one hit die and no base attack bonus. The quality of a racial hit die does not compare favorably to having actual class levels, so a race that has racial hit dice can have a lower LA and still be balanced with other races. The point buy variation is in the 3.5d DMG, correct? There's a level restriction to be a certain race? Where and why? And where could I find Nytcrawlr's version of the Half-Giant? Yes, Point-Buy is in the DMG. Some races are more powerful then others, see above. Check the archive, though I'm not entirely sure that its in there. Sorry to be so ill-informed. Heh, with my luck, the guys will end up deciding they don't really want to learn 3d, and we'll end up playing what we know. Thanks again for all the info, gang. Heh, no problem. It's really a lot easier then it sounds. There is just more depth to the game now. The basic rules are very easy and if you don't want to deal with level adjustments yet then just don't allow your players to play races that require them.
#10 huntercc Mar 16, 2006 8:14:37	Check the archive, though I'm not entirely sure that its in there. It's there, under part 7 Homebrew Rules