New Combat Rules For Scarier Games

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

vitomancer3

Mar 22, 2006 15:07:53
OK, so I've been GMing Horror for a long time, around 8 years. My first DnD book I ever read was AD&D Complete Necromancer's Handbood. So for a long time I've been trying to find a good system to run Horror out of to really scare and horrify my players. A few people have told me from time to time that the reason that they feel that the mood degenerates so quickly is the math involved in the game. They feel completely part of the experience until they actually start adding bonuses and checking against DC's. Which got me to thinking, how much more work is it to just calculate those things before the session even starts? So here's my idea:

Use the Players Roll All the Dice Variant From Unearthed Arcana. I'm not sure that I can tell people everyithing in it on boards but I think it's safe to say that Monster's have an Attack Rating (not bonus) and that it's a static number (Bonus + 11).

I then make a chart for the Players vs. Monsters by player, as I know their attack bonuses and AC bonuses (AC-10). I lay out such a chart thusly

Monster Attack Rating
X
PC AC Bonus
Y
PC Must Roll
X-Y=Z

Monster AC Rating
A
PC Attack Bonus
B
PC Must Roll
A-B=C

Example: A Zombie has an attack rating of 13, and an AC of 15. The Player has an attack bonus of +4 and AC bonus of +6. This gives the Zombie a modified Attack 7 and AC 11.

Monster Attack Rating
13
PC AC Bonus
6
PC Must Roll
13-6 = 7

Monster AC Rating
15
PC Attack Bonus
4
PC Must Roll
15-4 = 11

And then chart it for each PC:

Sean Attacks 11
Sean Defends 7
Jack Attacks 13
Jack Defends 4
Jake Attacks 16
Jake Defends 8

I figure this way combat will be faster but the players can trust me because at the end I can prove all of the hits and misses weren't fudged. Further, it keeps math out of the game. You win, you lose, but you don't think. More attention get's paid to my descriptions and less to adding and subtraction.
#2

Mortepierre

Mar 26, 2006 15:12:32
You want scary? Here is the ultimate trick. The minute your PC step in RL, you tell them from that point onward, you're the one handling their hit points. That's right, no access to a clear number. Only a reasonably vague description of their physical state (i.e. lightly wounded, etc..). Scares the players like nothing else because they're never sure just how badly it really is.

Plus, it's no big burden on the DM to keep such count.
#3

zombiegleemax

Mar 26, 2006 23:36:53
You want scary? Here is the ultimate trick. The minute your PC step in RL, you tell them from that point onward, you're the one handling their hit points. That's right, no access to a clear number. Only a reasonably vague description of their physical state (i.e. lightly wounded, etc..). Scares the players like nothing else because they're never sure just how badly it really is.

Plus, it's no big burden on the DM to keep such count.

Deathwatch will become their favorite spell
#4

Mortepierre

Mar 27, 2006 2:20:21
Deathwatch will become their favorite spell

By all means! It's an [Evil] spell, meaning power check every single time it's used :evillaugh
#5

zombiegleemax

Mar 27, 2006 9:29:57
By all means! It's an [Evil] spell, meaning power check every single time it's used :evillaugh

I never realized it was Evil...wow, weird. You'd have to give the characters SOME indication of their health (I tend to notice when I'm bleeding) but yeah...wow.
#6

periscope

Apr 24, 2006 0:44:07

You sir are evil beyond mentioning. Good idea!
#7

zombiegleemax

Apr 24, 2006 10:24:11
By all means! It's an [Evil] spell, meaning power check every single time it's used :evillaugh

Evil?
I think it's just necromancy.
And it's the only necromancy spell that doesen't require a Power Check.
#8

zombiegleemax

Apr 24, 2006 15:57:39
Apparently Deathwatch is an Evil spell in the 3.5 SRD, which it was not in the 3.0 SRD. (It also doesn't seem like it should be any more of an Evil spell than Speak With Dead, which isn't).

The 3.0 Ravenloft Campaign Setting notes that "The only necromantic spells that do not require powers checks are those that are purely defensive, do not create or enhance undead creatures, and do not require the manipulation of your life force or that of another subject" and specifically cites Deathwatch as an example. (p. 95)
#9

Mortepierre

Apr 25, 2006 2:30:54
The 3.0 Ravenloft Campaign Setting notes that "The only necromantic spells that do not require powers checks are those that are purely defensive, do not create or enhance undead creatures, and do not require the manipulation of your life force or that of another subject" and specifically cites Deathwatch as an example. (p. 95)

Totally missed that! (it's page 108 in the 3.5 version btw)

Ah well, it's not like my players ever used it anyway since the cleric of the team is Good and thus cannot cast [Evil] spells...
#10

zombiegleemax

Apr 25, 2006 5:44:59
Totally missed that! (it's page 108 in the 3.5 version btw)

Hm, it also sounds like the RLPHB missed the change to Deathwatch being Evil.

Me, I'd be content to houserule it as a not-Evil spell and treat it as just another type of detect (a sort of "Detect Lifeforce" if you will).

Then again, I'm still thinking of running Ravenloft under the GURPS system, which tends to make combat considerably deadlier from the get-go.
#11

morbid_jester

May 02, 2006 8:36:11
You want scary? Here is the ultimate trick. The minute your PC step in RL, you tell them from that point onward, you're the one handling their hit points. That's right, no access to a clear number. Only a reasonably vague description of their physical state (i.e. lightly wounded, etc..). Scares the players like nothing else because they're never sure just how badly it really is.

Plus, it's no big burden on the DM to keep such count.

And here I was thinking that I was the only who did this...

Ever since 2nd Edition AD&D my players have not had access to their hitpoints. Sure - at first they were arguing with me - telling me that it wasn't fair and that they should have that knowledge, but after a a few hundred sessions of both regular AD&D, 3rd, and 3.5, they have finally come to my side of the fence and realized that their hitpoints caused a much more "gamey" feeling.

Now they know they have to pay careful attention to my descriptions and are much more likely to perform "heroic" acts of self-sacrifice...

In fact I've taken this a step further as well and in my CoC campaigns the players also do not have access to their sanity levels eithor. It makes for a rather interesting roleplaying experience when I tell one player secretly they see or hear something that the other players don't hear or see.
#12

zombiegleemax

May 02, 2006 10:23:48
i was going to try to control my players hp but there was an overwhelmingly angry responce and i gave in. ah well.
#13

Mortepierre

May 02, 2006 11:55:52
To be sure, you have to be able to pull off that kind of drastic stunt. I don't think any DM who went for it escaped the usual angry comments, threats, etc.. till the players realized how much more fun they were getting out of it.

The trick is to do it fair & square. If your description of their state of health is poor at best, they won't accept it. Which isn't to say you have to start quoting it in % ("you've fallen in-between 50 and 55% of your hit points") because that would ruin the purpose. Ultimately, losing players (and friends) over this isn't worth it but it's certainly worth trying.