As far as I know, it's the only Japanese remake of any of the hex maps. This one came as a pull-out sheet (a little bigger than A4) with B11, King's Festival.
As far as I know, it's the only Japanese remake of any of the hex maps. This one came as a pull-out sheet (a little bigger than A4) with B11, King's Festival.
Nice. Were the names translated or simply transliterated?
Nice. Were the names translated or simply transliterated?
Yeah, that would be interesting to know. Also, are there any new names on the map?
Håvard
Kanji represent Japanese words, while katakana is used for foreign names and loan words (other than Chinese-derived loan words, which of course use kanji). For example, the title of the map says "Karameikosu Daikokoku". The former is katakana (transliteration), the latter word kanji (translation).
Here's a list of romanisations of the names on the map. You can probably work out quite easily what each one's English equivalent is. (Accents mark long vowels.)
[LIST]
[*]Karameikosu Daikôkoku (Grand Duchy of Karameikos)
[LIST]
[*]Kurûzu Sammyaku (Cruth Mountains)
[*]Burakku Pîku Sammyaku (Black Peak Mountains)
[*]Arutan Têpe Sammyaku (Altan Tepe Mountains)
[*]Kurûzu Gawa (Cruth River)
[*]Meigosu Kawa (Magos River)
[*]Gusutosu Kawa (Gustos River)
[*]Akerosu Kawa (Achelos River)
[*]Kurûzu Teichi (Cruth Lowlands)
[*]Ribâfôku Toride (Riverfork Keep)
[*]Akerosu no Mori (Achelos Woods)
[*]Ribâfôku no Mori (Riverfork Woods)
[*]Buraito Numa (Blight Swamp)
[*]Rurun (Luln)
[*]Burakku
Edit: I had to put an unnecessary space to prevent the censorship filter from kicking in for one entry. This is a very common problem with Japanese transliterations, because a common conjugation of the verb "to do" is "shi te".
I could see how that could be a problem yeah... ;)
Håvard
Penharigon
Iraruamu
Do Japanese people have some problem with the "L" letter?
can probably work out quite easily what each one's English equivalent is.
Maybe just 2 or 3... others are quite impossible! :D
I think this brings up a good question: is it better to provide English translations for local landmarks in the game, or to list names in other languages for more exotic cultures (in English publications, of course--you can substitute the word "English" for "Japanese" or any other languege)? The practice of generally listing English, Portuguese, Spanish, and French names in the corresponding language while tranlating all others seems user-friendly, but rather irrational upon inspection. One way or another, the Silver Sierras seems like an awfully odd name
Thanks for sharing this, Thorf! Is "Rôdo" a transliteration of road? Is it used in spoken Japanese?
The answers are yes, and sort of. They have their own words for road (you can see one of them, "Kaidô", up above), but they also sometimes use the English loan word. Only in certain situations, though, and it doesn't always have the same meaning as English "road".
I think this brings up a good question: is it better to provide English translations for local landmarks in the game, or to list names in other languages for more exotic cultures (in English publications, of course--you can substitute the word "English" for "Japanese" or any other languege)? The practice of generally listing English, Portuguese, Spanish, and French names in the corresponding language while tranlating all others seems user-friendly, but rather irrational upon inspection. One way or another, the Silver Sierras seems like an awfully odd name
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Aren't there examples of other languages untranslated in Mystara, for example in Ochalea, the Isle of Dawn, the Northern Reaches, etc.?
Do Japanese people have some problem with the "L" letter?
I know that in some Asian languages, the sounds R and L carry the same meaning, just like V and W carry the same meaning in Norwegian which cracks up alot of English speakers when we being talking about Wikings... ;)
Håvard
I know that in some Asian languages, the sounds R and L carry the same meaning, just like V and W carry the same meaning in Norwegian which cracks up alot of English speakers when we being talking about Wikings... ;)
Hehehe.
Yes, in Japanese they don't really have R or L, but instead have something that sounds somewhere in between the two. Without a lot of ear training, they can't even hear the difference between them.
The same thing is true with V and B, as you can see with Vorloi above.
Edit: I had to put an unnecessary space to prevent the censorship filter from kicking in for one entry. This is a very common problem with Japanese transliterations, because a common conjugation of the verb "to do" is "shi te".
that reminds one day after school we learned how to count from one to ten in Japanese, I came home and showed of my new talent to my parents. My mum was very unhappy she acused me of swearing in Maltese. It was somewhere around seven or eight from what I recall I never found out exactly what I was saying that was so bad.
that reminds one day after school we learned how to count from one to ten in Japanese, I came home and showed of my new talent to my parents. My mum was very unhappy she acused me of swearing in Maltese. It was somewhere around seven or eight from what I recall I never found out exactly what I was saying that was so bad.
Hehe, that's funny.
The numbers are ichi, ni, san, shi/yon, go, roku, nana/shichi, hachi, kyu, ju. It must be pretty hard for Maltese-speakers to visit Japan! ;)
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Aren't there examples of other languages untranslated in Mystara, for example in Ochalea, the Isle of Dawn, the Northern Reaches, etc.?
Yeah, sure... pick out three of the areas I know least well as examples ;)
The Northern Reaches seem to be an odd mishmash. "Saltshore," "Storm Bay," "Backwater," "Snowvale," and "Whiteheart" seem like English (or Thyatian, if you want to look at it that way) names. Plenty of place names seem distinctly Scandinavian. Others seem to be half and half bastardizations: "Vestfjord Bay" and "Jotunvalk Pass," for instance.
I guess the best way to clarify what I'm recognizing as odd is the selective translations of words like "River," "Road," "Mountain," "Keep," "Castle," "Forest," etc. We have "Grasslands of Chi" in Ochalea and "Gola Keep" in Sind, but "Bosque de los Ojos" on the Savage Coast and "Forteresse d'Ylourgne" in Glantri. It's not a 100% solid rule and there are definitely exceptions, but it seems like the more generic portions of placenames are translated to English except in the case of Romance languages. Does that make at least some sense?
I guess the best way to clarify what I'm recognizing as odd is the selective translations of words like "River," "Road," "Mountain," "Keep," "Castle," "Forest," etc. We have "Grasslands of Chi" in Ochalea and "Gola Keep" in Sind, but "Bosque de los Ojos" on the Savage Coast and "Forteresse d'Ylourgne" in Glantri. It's not a 100% solid rule and there are definitely exceptions, but it seems like the more generic portions of placenames are translated to English except in the case of Romance languages. Does that make at least some sense?
Yep - I thought that was what you were getting at. The same was true of the dwarven placenames, too: Fort Denwarf, even though the gazetteer provided a full dwarven name, Rak Denwarf.
In most cases this seems to be a simple issue of wanting to make things understandable. Using Romance language names, especially French, doesn't pose much of a problem to most English-speakers - especially when the words are very similar to the English equivalents.
But then a lot of the Spanish and Portuguese words used on the Savage Coast are a definite exception to that. If you have studied those languages even just a little, I'm sure they will be clear enough, but for someone like me who has never studied either, we have to resort to either guessing or looking up a dictionary.
Anyway, I'm not sure which is the more valid path. The foreign language names do add a certain charm and atmosphere to the regions they're used in, but then the names themselves arguably do enough of that anyway.
But then a lot of the Spanish and Portuguese words used on the Savage Coast are a definite exception to that.
My favoured map location name, in all Mystara maps, is La Escarpadura Grande/O Grande Escarpamento appearing on Dragon 174 (Torreòn, Texeiras, Vilaverde, Terra Vermelha, northern Narvaez).
My favoured map location name, in all Mystara maps, is La Escarpadura Grande/O Grande Escarpamento appearing on Dragon 174 (Torreòn, Texeiras, Vilaverde, Terra Vermelha, northern Narvaez).
How unfair that they don't include Dik Kayalýk Büyük, a most-likely incorrect Hulean translation ;)
Yep - I thought that was what you were getting at. The same was true of the dwarven placenames, too: Fort Denwarf, even though the gazetteer provided a full dwarven name, Rak Denwarf.
Another great example!
In most cases this seems to be a simple issue of wanting to make things understandable. Using Romance language names, especially French, doesn't pose much of a problem to most English-speakers - especially when the words are very similar to the English equivalents.
But then a lot of the Spanish and Portuguese words used on the Savage Coast are a definite exception to that. If you have studied those languages even just a little, I'm sure they will be clear enough, but for someone like me who has never studied either, we have to resort to either guessing or looking up a dictionary.
Anyway, I'm not sure which is the more valid path. The foreign language names do add a certain charm and atmosphere to the regions they're used in, but then the names themselves arguably do enough of that anyway.
I suppose it's largely a matter of perspective: I rarely have trouble with the Spanish or Portuguese translations, but it was quite a struggle to figure out most of the phonetic Japanese names you listed, and I still got several wrong. My guess is that it was usually a matter of individual authors who based their naming decisions on their own perceptions of what people would recognize--not a bad system, just an inconsistent one.
What brought this to mind was the use of phonetics in words like "Rodo" (which you already discussed), "Burakku," "Pîku," "
How unfair that they don't include Dik Kayalýk Büyük, a most-likely incorrect Hulean translation ;)
Great! I think I'll use this Hulean sounding name in my next Tampicos camapign! ;)
I suppose it's largely a matter of perspective: I rarely have trouble with the Spanish or Portuguese translations, but it was quite a struggle to figure out most of the phonetic Japanese names you listed, and I still got several wrong. My guess is that it was usually a matter of individual authors who based their naming decisions on their own perceptions of what people would recognize--not a bad system, just an inconsistent one.
Yep, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Another way to look at it is that the author (and editors) make assumptions about what foreign words/languages the readers will be familiar with and let a certain amount of vocabulary from those areas stay in the original languages.
What brought this to mind was the use of phonetics in words like "Rodo" (which you already discussed), "Burakku," "Pîku," "
Thus, it seems to me, the writers would feel more comfortable using those two languages as place names, and the readers would be more familiar with them as well. Not necessarily the case with the other languages.
It might seem kind of surprising that secondary languages are required courses for high school graduates, when you consider how Anglo-centric (and monolinguistic) many US citizens are, but I think it has a lot to do with the age at which the language is taught... but of course, that's a whole other issue for another forum somewhere about the US educational system.
that reminds one day after school we learned how to count from one to ten in Japanese, I came home and showed of my new talent to my parents. My mum was very unhappy she acused me of swearing in Maltese. It was somewhere around seven or eight from what I recall I never found out exactly what I was saying that was so bad.
Another Malteser? Wow. Must be something about Mystara that brings us out. Fortunately my mum never questioned me about 7 and 8 in Japanese. Unfortunaltey, I also have no idea which is meant to be the bad word, and teh M-E dictionary I have here with me isn't giving any clues.
Looking at the katakana transliterations of the place names, a better job could definitely have been made. They translated "Grand Duchy" into Japanese kanji, but left "Duke's Road" as a phonetic transcription? That's just shoddy workmanship.
Another Malteser? Wow. Must be something about Mystara that brings us out. Fortunately my mum never questioned me about 7 and 8 in Japanese. Unfortunaltey, I also have no idea which is meant to be the bad word, and teh M-E dictionary I have here with me isn't giving any clues.
If you ever find out, please do let me know. :D
Looking at the katakana transliterations of the place names, a better job could definitely have been made. They translated "Grand Duchy" into Japanese kanji, but left "Duke's Road" as a phonetic transcription? That's just shoddy workmanship.
I see what you mean, but I'm not sure if you are entirely correct. Perhaps "Kôshaku no Kaidô" just doesn't sound very good (or natural) in Japanese? Still, it does make you wonder if Japanese players realised the connection between "Sutefan Kôshaku" and "Dyûkusu Rôdo". I'm guessing the answer is no.