I also noticed in Dungeon's Age of Worms Adventure Path, there was a Quaggoth Aristocrat. I thought that they were only in Faerun(Monsters of Faerun to be exact). What other creatures in Monsters of Faerun are in Greyhawk?
I also noticed in Dungeon's Age of Worms Adventure Path, there was a Quaggoth Aristocrat. I thought that they were only in Faerun(Monsters of Faerun to be exact). What other creatures in Monsters of Faerun are in Greyhawk?
Probably most of them. I don't own MoF so I can't say for sure, but I know bullywugs are in there, and they showed up in WoGH long before there was a published version of FR.
but I know bullywugs are in there, and they showed up in WoGH long before there was a published version of FR.
.. which is basically true of many of the "classical" monsters now associated with Faerun (drows, bullywugs, quaggoth, ropers, kuo-toa, etc..). Darn copycats!
How is the Underdark of Greyhawk different thatn other campaign settings?
It's pretty much the same as the one in the Forgotten Realms, which is fundamentally based on features of Greyhawk's underdark. If you wanted to use the Underdark hardcover in a Greyhawk campaign, the main changes would be to change Menzoberranzan to Erelhei-Cinlu and the Deep Imaskari to Deep Suel.
Do any of you know of any major Underdark cities?
Yeah. Beneath the Abbor-Alz is a derro city called the Halls of the Diirinken. Beneath the Glorioles is a fading land known as the Crypts of Iron Souls.
Beneath the Abbor-Alz, Domain of Greyhawk, and Bright Desert is definitely an Underdark region. The major players there are likely the derro, manscorpions, ogres, trolls, meenlocks, drow, and anything else mentioned in Greyhawk Ruins.
Beneath the Sea of Dust can be found meenlocks, derro, jermlaines, snyads, thoqqua, albino ape-like creatures, and various giant insectoid and wormlike creatures. This is where I'd put the Deep Suel.
There is also an Underdark accessible from the Rift Canyon, and one beneath the Rakers and the Bone March.
Beneath the Hellfurnaces is the bulk of what you would usually think of as the Underdark. This deep land includes the drow city Erelhei-Cinlu, the svirfneblin city Glimmerfell (ruined), the drow city Angrimm (ruined), the cloaker City of Echoes (capital of the Cloaker Rift nation), the illithid city Abstemious (from The Illithiad), and the true ghoul city of Kilenor. Many settlements of aboleths, kuo-toas, pech, derro, duergar, jermlaines, troglodytes, wererats, beholders, a society of degenerate humans called the Lerara (identical to the underfolk from Races of Destiny), and other races are known to exist there, too. Referencing Lords of Madness, I see an aboleth city called Yolinithili, and an illithid sept and duergar village called Lagurno. Since that's a generic supplement, we can clame those for Oerth.
Sources on Greyhawk's underdark include Descent into the Depths of the Earth, Vault of the Drow, Dead Gods, Dungeon #70 ("Kingdom of the Ghouls"), Night Below, From the Ashes, the 1e Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, and the old World of Greyhawk boxed set.
Yet another question is what was the drow city under Istivin called?
I'm not sure. It might not have an official name.
I also noticed in Dungeon's Age of Worms Adventure Path, there was a Quaggoth Aristocrat. I thought that they were only in Faerun(Monsters of Faerun to be exact).
Quaggoths are a little different on Oerth. They're typically surface dwllers who prefer the northern forests and cold marshes, though there's an article on Canonfire! by Erik Mona about how the quaggoths were driven underground by the ancient elves.
What other creatures in Monsters of Faerun are in Greyhawk?
As others have said, most of the monsters in that book are generic, long preceding the creation of the Forgotten Realms as an official campaign setting.
Aarakocra - Definitely, particularly in and around the Thillonrian Peninsula and the Lortmills. Also found in Hepmonaland.
Aballin - No specific Greyhawk reference that I'm aware of, but they're likely found in any subterranean area.
Abishai (all) - often summoned from the Nine Hells.
Alaghi - Definitely. Alaghi were formally found in the Greyhawk Monstrous Compendium Appendix.
Asabi - These would work well in the Sea of Dust, but I'm unaware of a specific reference.
Banedead - These are specifically Forgotten Realms creatures.
Baneguard - Again, Forgotten Realms creatures.
Banelar - No suprise, specific to the Realms.
Bat, Deep - These were formally in the Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium Appendix II, but they would work fine on Oerth.
Beast of Malar - Specific to the Realms.
Beholder Mage - These are found in the Greyhawk campaign.
Beholder, Death kiss - Again, these are generic monsters found in Greyhawk.
Beholder, Eyeball - Lords of Madness made these generic.
Beholderkin, Gouger - Generic.
Bullywug - These are vital to a Greyhawk campaign. They're often found in the Vast Swamp as servants of the demigod Wastri. They're also found in Hepmonaland in the Xaro Mountains and the Akialo Swamp.
Chitine - Chitines are generic, though I think they may have originated in the Forgotten Realms setting. Not sure on this.
Choldrith - Not generic, but as Lolth is known in Greyhawk's underdark, choldriths probably are too.
Chosen One - These are Realms-specific, though they might work well as creations of Iuz's Boneheart.
Cloaker Lord - Rulers of the Cloaker Rift nation beneath the Hellfurnaces.
Crawling Claw - I think these were originally Forgotten Realms creatures, though they're pretty generic. Animated hands could appear pretty much anywhere.
Darkenbeast - Realms-specific.
Dark tree - Originated in the Shining South supplement for the Forgotten Realms, though they could easily be adapted to other campaigns.
Deepspawn - Originated in the Realms.
Demon, Ghour - Originated in Monsters of Faerun, though as Baphomet is known in the Flanaess, ghours are probably there as well.
Demon, Yochlol - Originated in Vault of the Drow, a Greyhawk module.
Doppleganger, Greater - I think these were originally from the Realms, but they've since been made generic.
Deep Dragons - Original to the Realms.
Fang Dragons - Original to the Realms
Shadow Dragons - Original to Greyhawk.
Song Dragons - Called Greyhawk Dragons or Steel Dragons on Oerth. They're lawful neutral in the Greyhawk campaign, and can appear as humanoids of either sex.
Dragonkin - Originated in Dragon Mountain, a generic adventure.
Dread Warrior - Original to the Realms
Dwarf, Shield - Called "hill dwarves" in the Greyhawk campaign.
Dwarf, Gold - Called "mountain dwarves" in the Greyhawk campaign
Dwarf, Duergar - Found in abundance in UnderOerth
Dwarf, Urdunnir - Generic creatures. Possibly associated with the Mines of Dumathoin fading realm.
Firenewt - Found in the Hellfurnace Mountains and the Sea of Dust
Ghaunadan - Realms-specific
Fog giant - Generic creatures
Phaerlin giant - Realms-specific
Giant strider - Found in the Hellfurnace Mountains and the Sea of Dust
Gibberling - Found in the Suss Forest, Blackmoor, the Amedio Jungle, and Hepmonaland.
Goblin, Dekanter - Realms-specific
Golem, Gemstone - Originated in the Forgotten Realms, though spellcasters of Oerth might have made a few.
Golem, Thayan - Realms-specific
Green warder - Originated in the Forgotten Realms, might be found in elven lands in the Flanaess.
Groundling - Realms-specific
Gulguthydra - Generic.
Half-fiend, draegloth - Originated in the Forgotten Realms setting, but are probably found in Erelhei-Cinlu
Helmed horror - There are some of these in the true ghoul city of Kilenor, and likely elsewhere.
Hybsil - I think these originated in the Forgotten Realms, but they were made generic.
Ibrandlin - Realms-specific.
Ice serpent - I have no idea where these originated, but they seem pretty generic. They're native to the Paraelemental Plane of Ice, so they can be found on any world that touches it.
Leucrotta - Generic, found on Oerth
Malaugrym - Realms-specific, but found on the Plane of Shadow.
Meazel - Generic, can be found in the Greyhawk setting.
Myrlochar - Originated in the Forgotten Realms campaign, but can be expected to be found anywhere Lolth is known.
Nishruu - Originated in the Shining South supplement for the Forgotten Realms, but nishruu are native to the Quasielemental Plane of Dust and can be expected to be found on any world with vortices to that plane.
Nyth - Introduced in FR, but also found in the Elemental Plane of Air. Probably found anywhere will-o-wisps are.
Peryton - Generic, found in the Greyhawk campaign. Definitely found in the Imianme Hills in Hepmonaland. Said to be native to Atlantis on Earth, according to their Dragon Magazine ecology by Nigel Findley.
Phaerimm - Realms-specific
Planetouched, genasi - Found anywhere the Elemental Planes are known, particularly in Baklunish lands.
Planetouched, tiefling - Found anywhere the Lower Planes are known, particularly in the Empire of Iuz, though no one in the Greyhawk campaign is specifically breeding fey'ris or tanarukks.
Pterafolk - These originated in the Dark Sun campaign, I think. They could conceivably exist in the southern jungles of Oerth, though there isn't a particular need for them.
Quaggoth - Found in the Cold Marshes, the Forlorn, Burneal, and Hraak Forests, the land of the Tiger and Wolf nomads, and Blackmoor.
Shalarin - Likely found in Oerth's oceans.
Sharn - Realms-specific.
Siv - These would make excellent servants of Wastri. They seem tailor-made for the Hopping Prophet.
Spectral panther - These seem Realms-specific.
Spider, subterranean - Generic. Hairy spiders are found throughout the continent of Hepmonaland.
Stinger - Called manscorpions in the Greyhawk setting, these are found in large numbers beneath the Bright Desert in the ruins of ancient Sulm.
Tall monster - I'm gonna say Realms-specific.
Tomb tappers - Generic, originally found in a Dragon article by Ed Greenwood.
I'm going to call them Realms-specific.
Black unicorn - Generic, probably bred by servants of Iuz.
Wemic - Found in Hepmonaland and likely the Plains of the Paynims.
Zombie, Tyrantfog - Realms-specific. Would be reasonable as servants of Hextor struck down by the power of Incabulos.
Curst - Realms-specific.
Ghosts - All but Zhentarim spirits.
Lich - All but Baneliches and baelnorn (actually, the Spectre in Shroudgate, mentioned in Ivid the Undying, might be a baelnorn).
Lycanthrope - These are all generic.
Revenant - Generic.
Yuan-ti - These could be found anywhere other yuan-ti are, which includes Hepmonaland and the Amedio Jungle. Broodguards originated in a generic Dragon Magazine article.
Hybsils were in the first edition Monster Manual II, I believe. So they are not originally Realms creatures.
I stand corrected.
But i do see some underdark plots in future campaigns.
And what about beneath the Yatils and Perrenland? What's going on under the Baklunish lands? Do there need to be Underdarks everywhere?
I think the critical difference between the Underdarks of the FR and GH is that there is no expectation that the Underdark is this massive area underlaying the whole region like it is in the FR. Rather, there are pockets in various places, notably the ones mentioned above.
Oh, and there is also the "Low Road" in the Lortmils. Which may or may not meet your definition of "underdark". Its certainly a substantial network of interconnected caverns and such. But its inhabitants were mainly cave dwelling surface races like goblins and orcs.
Beneath the Hellfurnaces is the bulk of what you would usually think of as the Underdark. This deep land includes the drow city Erelhei-Cinlu, the svirfneblin city Glimmerfell (ruined), the drow city Angrimm (ruined), the cloaker City of Echoes (capital of the Cloaker Rift nation), the illithid city Abstemious (from The Illithiad), and the true ghoul city of Kilenor. Many settlements of aboleths, kuo-toas, pech, derro, duergar, jermlaines, troglodytes, wererats, beholders, a society of degenerate humans called the Lerara (identical to the underfolk from Races of Destiny), and other races are known to exist there, too. Referencing Lords of Madness, I see an aboleth city called Yolinithili, and an illithid sept and duergar village called Lagurno. Since that's a generic supplement, we can clame those for Oerth.
Groovy - are there any 'official' locations for the above-mentioned cities.
Btw - I also used the ancient dwarf city of Dilvwyllin in the Yatils (from the Dengeon Mod about the Shards of the Day - can't recall how to spell it though) to expand on the Lost Cavers of the Tsojcanth
Is that a Greyhawk-specific adventure? I placed it on the edge of the mountains between Sterich and Geoff in my own campaign if I remember correctly.
Yet another question is what was the drow city under Istivin called?
It might not be *official* but I believe the city was given a name in Dungeon in the 3 part Touch of the Abyss series set in Sterich that came out last year starting in issue #117. The adventures are tied to the "supermodule" D1-Q1.
Mike
Is there enough non-FR specific content to use in the Underdark supplement?
What about the description of Istivin in the recent Dungeon adventures? Would I be able to pull some of that back in time for my purposes? I was thinking about the city layout, etc.
The third part of the Istivin adventures brings in a group of members of House Eilservs who are unaware of the Eilservs current position (redeemed) in Erelhei-Cinlu. This small group still worships the Elder Elemental Eye.
Dragon Magazine Issue #300 also has a few additional NPCs related to the same article.
Does anybody know enough about the Leraran humans' religion and culture? In the Living Greyhawk Module, Lerara, they were descendants of the Suel Imperium. My Wizard asked their head leader about their society and culture, but refused to answer because I helped the goblin child prisoner escape, who was to be used as a human sacrifice.
They were among the Suel houses who escaped the Sea of Dust just after the Rain of Colorless Fire through the power of the Last Mage of Power, Slerotin. Slerotin created a tunnel hundreds of miles long connecting the Sea of Dust with what is today called the Yeomanry. All of the houses made it through before the tunnel was sealed shut but one - House Lerara.
The Lerara would have died in the dark if they had not found a purpose to their new subterranean lives in the form of a gigantic oozelike creature they began calling the Mother. They worship the Mother as their patron goddess and give it sacrifices. The Mother in return gives them a reason to live, though it might not be aware of it.
The Lerara also trade with other Underdark races, such as the drow, for needed supplies (such as poison for their arrow tips).
The original source material on the Lerara comes from the orange spine 1st ed. "Greyhawk Adventures" hard cover book by Jim Ward. It's out of print, but might be available as a PDF somewhere.
No, it's from the adventure hooks in the Glossography in the 1983 World of Greyhawk boxed set by Gary Gygax.
No mention of the Lerara in Greyhawk Adventures.
No, it's from the adventure hooks in the Glossography in the 1983 World of Greyhawk boxed set by Gary Gygax.
No mention of the Lerara in Greyhawk Adventures.
D'oh - well so it is. :embarrass
I shall now go and commit paper-cut seppaku to atone for my shame and dishonour.
P.
There is also a Leraran write-up in a Dragon magazine article that has Elaine Mystica of Irongate as a Leraran. I don't remember the Dragon issue...I think it was 241?
Go back another 100 issues or so. That was one of the first Dragons I ever bought. Can't get you an exact issue # right now, though.
Elayne Mystica was covered in issue #139, "Lords & Legends" by Niel Brandt (if I am not mistaken)
Elayne Mystica was covered in issue #139, "Lords & Legends" by Niel Brandt (if I am not mistaken)
I have #241, so does that original issue talk about her history at all? I was kinda surprised that in newer material (LGG) they completely skirt the issue of her heritage.
The pic was good though, way better than the one in LGG where she is seen standing with Cobb.
I agree that, given her level of power & weird origins, it's strange she hasn't been getting more attention (especially from the SB).
Here are all her ref. from JZ's NPC index:
DRG#139 Pg# - 18
DRG#241 Pg# - 44,45,46,47
LGG Pg# - 57
LGJ#0 Pg# - 8
LGJ#3 Pg# - 14
Or if she had something to do with the uncovering of the SB plot in Irongate during the Wars, perhaps they're scared witless of her.
P.
Why isn't Elaine getting SB attention? Who said she isn't?
Eh, the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory does (by not mentioning her) but I know not many here put much faith in that book, so...
Or if she had something to do with the uncovering of the SB plot in Irongate during the Wars, perhaps they're scared witless of her.
Granted, that's a possibility, though I doubt they're scared. IMHO, they would rather be drooling at the possibility of getting her involved in their breeding program given she is "pure" blood (though that can be argued).
After all, if she managed to reach such level of power (Wiz19 if I am not mistaken), that means she must be doing something right.
Eh, the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory does (by not mentioning her) but I know not many here put much faith in that book, so...
Ugh - one of the great disappointments of that book is the critical failure of imagination in the regional goals of the SB. I can see why SKR left it vague (for GMs to fill in their own plots), but some more ambitious general strategic goals would have been better than a standard "SB not doing anything here right now, please try again later".
In canon, I explain it away by a failure of imagination on behalf of Korenth Zan. Zan abandoned the advantage of secrecy and subterfuge to pursue the aggressive policies that brought the SB out of the shadows, leading to the disastrous occupations in Idee, the Hold and Onnwal, the death of many fine SB agents and the stirring of a coordinated backlash against the Brotherhood by Keoland, Ahlissa and other Azure Sea powers, making Shar less, not more secure.*
By 591 CY, the Father of Obedience was out of ideas, having seen the majority of his great plans fail. He's clearly in need of replacement. With the loss of Scant (in 595 CY in LG timelines), I'd say the knives are out in Hesuel Ilshar for old Korenth. Given he's described as seriously paranoid, there could be some interesting fireworks in Shar if anyone in the Brotherhood moves against him (which is more important - the Father of Obedience or the long term goals of the Brotherhood?).
P.
* Any similarity to actual people and events is purely coincidental.
Ugh - one of the great disappointments of that book is the critical failure of imagination in the regional goals of the SB. I can see why SKR left it vague (for GMs to fill in their own plots), but some more ambitious general strategic goals would have been better than a standard "SB not doing anything here right now, please try again later".
In canon, I explain it away by a failure of imagination on behalf of Korenth Zan. Zan abandoned the advantage of secrecy and subterfuge to pursue the aggressive policies that brought the SB out of the shadows, leading to the disastrous occupations in Idee, the Hold and Onnwal, the death of many fine SB agents and the stirring of a coordinated backlash against the Brotherhood by Keoland, Ahlissa and other Azure Sea powers, making Shar less, not more secure.*
By 591 CY, the Father of Obedience was out of ideas, having seen the majority of his great plans fail. He's clearly in need of replacement. With the loss of Scant (in 595 CY in LG timelines), I'd say the knives are out in Hesuel Ilshar for old Korenth. Given he's described as seriously paranoid, there could be some interesting fireworks in Shar if anyone in the Brotherhood moves against him (which is more important - the Father of Obedience or the long term goals of the Brotherhood?).
P.
* Any similarity to actual people and events is purely coincidental.
A night of Long Knives in the SB lands perhaps?
The problem is that the damage is already done. Before the Wars, the SB was unknown to most people. Now, most people know (& dread) it.
Even if they go quiet again, it will only fool the most stupid elements of the population. Those with a real brain will continue to suspect (& see) their hand in any sinister happening.
While it's useful to be feared, it's far more useful to be ignored. And they're far beyond that...
The ultimate shades of grey adventure - saving the Scarlet Brotherhood from the machinations of the Black Brotherhood!