Starting Characters - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Starting Characters

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gilliard_derosan
Apr 02, 2006 22:47:38 Was looking for a general idea on how everyone here starts characters, how many points do you go with for point buy?

When I first started, I had characters roll, now I am going to point buy for new characters. But I was just looking for a mix of how everyone else does it.

I am thinking of 84 points, 1 for 1 expenditure, which is enough to 14's across the board.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing different methods.
#2
jano
Apr 03, 2006 3:08:22 I let my players roll 2d8 + 4 and then divide sum across abilities as they see it fit. Then goes race modiefiers. Ofcourse I have last word about point spending. It gives a slicely stronger characters then normal 3d6 and let me hurl at them more powerful monsters :D
#3
master_ivan
Apr 03, 2006 3:14:54 My group always uses 4d4+4, we think it's the most balancing roll. Mainly because Athas is a tough world and needs tough heroes...
#4
kalthandrix
Apr 03, 2006 7:59:03 Roll 4d6 dropping lowest die, seven times dropping lowest score- This route gives you some strong PCs, usually with a 13 or better on all scores- then adding racial mods of course.
#5
shim
Apr 06, 2006 17:37:08 4d6 drop lowest die, in following fixed sequence: STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA.
If no 13 or higher (or 15?) or no +3 or higher total modifier, then reroll everything.

Then reroll a stat of your choice.

Then you may switch 2 stats with each other.

We use race mods which give higher bonusses than suggested in the Athas.org PHB, giving races ECL +1 or higher.

We think that rolling in the fixed sequence prevents too much power play.
#6
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 06, 2006 17:42:24
Was looking for a general idea on how everyone here starts characters, how many points do you go with for point buy?

When I first started, I had characters roll, now I am going to point buy for new characters. But I was just looking for a mix of how everyone else does it.

I am thinking of 84 points, 1 for 1 expenditure, which is enough to 14's across the board.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing different methods.

That's the point buy that I have offered my characters, but everyone take the roll instead .
#7
kilamar
Apr 06, 2006 18:32:29 Point Buy 28 or 32 (more likely).

Kilamar
#8
harkle
Apr 06, 2006 19:14:03 My group and myself all hate point buy.

Other people in my group have run with 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1's and 2's. Arrange as you like. Sometimes they say reroll only once, sometimes they say reroll until you have no 1's or 2's.

I'll be starting a 2nd ed DS campaign where I will we'll be using 4d4+4 in the order rolled.
#9
kalthandrix
Apr 06, 2006 21:07:12 I have also done 4d6 drop lowest, 1's are 6's - it gives more beef!
#10
master_ivan
Apr 07, 2006 5:43:50
My group and myself all hate point buy.

Other people in my group have run with 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1's and 2's. Arrange as you like. Sometimes they say reroll only once, sometimes they say reroll until you have no 1's or 2's.

I'll be starting a 2nd ed DS campaign where I will we'll be using 4d4+4 in the order rolled.

'atta boy :D
#11
jon_oracle_of_athas
Apr 07, 2006 8:53:07
I am thinking of 84 points, 1 for 1 expenditure, which is enough to 14's across the board.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing different methods.

That's the method I use.
#12
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 07, 2006 12:12:36 I use the basic point-buy system (1-to-1 except for scores higher than 14), usually knocking the points to 30-35 or so. I like this, because it curbs overpowered stats in my book. I dislike dice rolling for stats, because honestly... I've seen too many players who are "conveniently" too good at rolling dice -- and I have a trust issue when it comes to people making characters without my ability to check for valildity of the rolls (with the point buy system, I can count up the points and make sure the character's stats are 'kosher').
#13
zombiegleemax
Apr 07, 2006 12:51:30 Out of curiosity why are you guys going with a 3d6 darksun was originally setup for 5d4.
You are only giving them a max unmodified possibility of 18 instead of the originally possible unmodified max of 20.
#14
zombiegleemax
Apr 07, 2006 13:52:41 3d6 or 24 point buy

I'm only a Dark Sun player, this is just how it works in my other things.

Yes, everyone hates me
#15
darksoulman
Apr 07, 2006 14:31:16 I've given out +10 in total stat bonuses (buying up to 18 isn't more expensive), with half the stats even and the other half uneven. Results in about the same stats as Jon's method, which is slightly more elegant ;)
#16
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 07, 2006 15:05:17
Out of curiosity why are you guys going with a 3d6 darksun was originally setup for 5d4.
You are only giving them a max unmodified possibility of 18 instead of the originally possible unmodified max of 20.

Out of curiosity why are you guys going with a 3d6 darksun was originally setup for 5d4.
You are only giving them a max unmodified possibility of 18 instead of the originally possible unmodified max of 20.

This argument/point of discussion has been brought up before. It's all about probability. First off, D&D 3/3.5e doesn't use 3d6, it uses 4d6-drop the lowest. Here's the breakdown:
5d4
range: 5 - 20, evenly distributed
Average rolls go to the range of 11 - 14 based on the probability curve.
There is a 1 : 625 (that is 0.16%) chance of getting a 20 or a 5, there is a 1 : 125 (that is 0.8%) chance of getting a 6 or a 19. It is a 2 : 125 (that is 1.6%) chance of getting a 7 or an 18.

4d6, drop the lowest die
range: 3 - 18, favoring higher-end results due to the lowest die being ignored. As such the odds for the rolls become far more complicated to calculate.
Average of 3d6 rolls go to the range of 9 - 12 based on the probability curve.
However, with an additional die thrown in and the lowest die drops, this becomes a bit skewed, favoring higher rolls. Assuming the majority of rolls will always have a die of 4 or higher (at least 50% of the time), the average range becomes 6 - 18, and the average becomes 11 - 14.
Probability gets confusing, but for the average odds from the die being dropped, and with one of the remaining dice being in the range of 4 - 6, there is a 1 : 39 (that is 2.6%) chance of getting an 18 (substantially lower for a 3, however there is about a 1 : 39 chance of getting a 6).

Note that the 3.5e rolling method is much more difficult to track with probability, due to the factor of rolling 4 dice but only retaining the top 3, than the 5d4 method is.

Basically, while the 5d4 method does concievably provide a higher value, the odds are, due to the additional extra dice in the mix, that it will gravitate more to the center of the range than to the extremes. The 4d6-drop-the-lowest method doesn't have as high of an upper end, but then again, generally provides a better safegard against lower results, and higher odds for actually rolling the higher end. With fewer dice being rolled, it doesn't favor the center of the range as much as the 5d4 method does.

However, it really is your own personal preference as to how you want to handle Dark Sun ability generation. 5d4 tends to produce a more average range of stats, with very infrequently getting results of 17 or higher on the rolls. The 3.5e generation method is what 3/3.5e mechanics are more geared for, with characters having higher-than-average stats, even moderately so. That said, I still strictly stick to the point-buy method personally, because I've seen too many people be able to roll dice in their favor.
#17
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 07, 2006 23:14:20 That's all true, but if you will recall the 5d4 method was the one recomended for NPCs in the DS campaign setting. Whereas for PCs 4d4+4 was recommended. That skews the results quite a bit higher. Rather than an average of 12.5 you end up with an average of 14 and rather then a minimum stat of 5 you end up with a minimum stat of 8 (before racial modifiers).

This is why an 1 for 1, 84 point-buy will give you the same sort of ability spread as 2nd ed. DS.
#18
gilliard_derosan
Apr 08, 2006 9:28:57 Another reason DS used 4d6 drop the lowest as "standard" is because of the CR systems. Everything D&D now since 3.0/3.5 is based on a 3-18 range, not a 5-20 range. If you recall, some of the bonuses for stats used to be slower in progressing, so a score of a 16 now gives the same bonus as what a 18 or so used to give in 2nd ed. If you look at the old max attainable strength score of 21 (Half giant putting a 20 in Str then racially adding +4) it granted +3 to hit and +8 to damage. a 24 now gives +7 to hit and damage. Yeah, he does slightly under the damage he used to put out, but he has a 20% increase in hitting What he used to need a 18 or higher to hit, he can now do on a 14 or higher (assuming the same AC of course), and since he will hit more often, the damage bonus is actually very significant.

And old con of 20 used to give you +3hp per die, 6 if you were a fighter. Now it gives 5 to whomever may have that score. It only takes a 16 to get a +3

So, overall, the potential of attributes has increased since 2nd edition. The new lower score range is somewhat equivalent to the old higher range of scores, hence why 18 is the general "max" starting ability score rating instead of 20

Now, back to my original post. I decided on 85 points, 1 for 1 exchange, and 18 being max. 85 instead of 84 so that they HAVE to have an odd numbered attibute, otherwise everything is likely to be equal and thus would take longer before the ever-4-level ability score increase would take effect.

It gibes a nice range of scores, a character can have an 18 in an attribute without being forced to stuff 10's in everything else like it would be under standard 32 point buy (yeah, I think they could have had a 12 in there too, but it just has too low of a range for my taste), and it is not enough to have 16's in everything, so they can have 14's across the board if they choose, being bery well rounded instead of focused on one aspect.

I do appreciate all the imput, and by all means I'll keep reading it if it keeps appearing
#19
phaaf_glien
Apr 08, 2006 15:34:10
My group and myself all hate point buy.

Other people in my group have run with 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1's and 2's. Arrange as you like. Sometimes they say reroll only once, sometimes they say reroll until you have no 1's or 2's.

I'll be starting a 2nd ed DS campaign where I will we'll be using 4d4+4 in the order rolled.

2nd Edition rules! I am glad someone other than myself prefers the traditional 4d4+4 in the order roles. Go Harkle!
#20
master_ivan
Apr 08, 2006 17:04:39
2nd Edition rules! I am glad someone other than myself prefers the traditional 4d4+4 in the order roles. Go Harkle!

Yeheah yeah!!
#21
Zardnaar
Apr 09, 2006 5:36:13 4d6 drop the lowest or 32 point buy. Whatever the PCs prefer.
#22
zombiegleemax
Apr 09, 2006 15:03:13 thanks for the math end xlorepdarkhelm but i really was more wondering if people were capping stats at 18 or 20 before racial mods. sorry for the very baddly worded question.
i was at work with managers walkingall around. uning the interent for personal pursures is frowned apoun
#23
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 09, 2006 18:22:49
thanks for the math end xlorepdarkhelm but i really was more wondering if people were capping stats at 18 or 20 before racial mods. sorry for the very baddly worded question.
i was at work with managers walkingall around. uning the interent for personal pursures is frowned apoun

Actually, in 3/3.5e, you don't cap abilities. There's no upper limit.
#24
dunsel
Apr 11, 2006 7:06:05 I let my players roll 4d4+4 because it gives them the illusion that slightly powerful ability scores will actually help them survive the campaign. :evillaugh

Seriously, since they start at 12th level (I run a mid to high level campaign), they roll 4d4+4.

When they first started out at third level, they rolled 5d4.
#25
gilliard_derosan
Apr 11, 2006 8:56:41
Actually, in 3/3.5e, you don't cap abilities. There's no upper limit.

I think he meant capping at creation.. which I do. I cap at 18 max at creation, because I don't want someone starting with 10's actoss the board and strength of a 35. Once the game starts, then the points you get every 4 levels can go anywhere, the attributes can reach any level
#26
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Apr 11, 2006 10:15:27
I think he meant capping at creation.. which I do. I cap at 18 max at creation, because I don't want someone starting with 10's actoss the board and strength of a 35. Once the game starts, then the points you get every 4 levels can go anywhere, the attributes can reach any level

Ahh so he means a "soft cap" -- a personal limitation at character creation. I don't enforce any extra cap like that. I just keep increating how many points it takes to make that next ability score (2 : 1 for 15 & 16, 3 : 1 for 17 & 18, 4 : 1 for 19 & 20, 5 : 1 for 21 & 21, etc.) But, my players understand that unbalancing their scores too much results in a quick turn around back to character creation (their unbalanced character becomes dead quicker).
#27
flip
Apr 11, 2006 10:24:37
Ahh so he means a "soft cap" -- a personal limitation at character creation. I don't enforce any extra cap like that. I just keep increating how many points it takes to make that next ability score (2 : 1 for 15 & 16, 3 : 1 for 17 & 18, 4 : 1 for 19 & 20, 5 : 1 for 21 & 21, etc.) But, my players understand that unbalancing their scores too much results in a quick turn around back to character creation (their unbalanced character becomes dead quicker).

Which is basically the extrapolation of the point buy technique given in the DMG.

Which I do happen to like ... I tend to give around 32 points, but it depends on my mood ... I'm starting to belive that a lower starting point value -- somewhere around 24 or 26 -- produces characters that are much easier to manage (as in, not plowing their way through things that should be challenging. Characters without any weaknesses are no fun ...)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gilliard_derosan Apr 02, 2006 22:47:38	Was looking for a general idea on how everyone here starts characters, how many points do you go with for point buy? When I first started, I had characters roll, now I am going to point buy for new characters. But I was just looking for a mix of how everyone else does it. I am thinking of 84 points, 1 for 1 expenditure, which is enough to 14's across the board. Anyway, looking forward to seeing different methods.
#2 jano Apr 03, 2006 3:08:22	I let my players roll 2d8 + 4 and then divide sum across abilities as they see it fit. Then goes race modiefiers. Ofcourse I have last word about point spending. It gives a slicely stronger characters then normal 3d6 and let me hurl at them more powerful monsters :D
#3 master_ivan Apr 03, 2006 3:14:54	My group always uses 4d4+4, we think it's the most balancing roll. Mainly because Athas is a tough world and needs tough heroes...
#4 kalthandrix Apr 03, 2006 7:59:03	Roll 4d6 dropping lowest die, seven times dropping lowest score- This route gives you some strong PCs, usually with a 13 or better on all scores- then adding racial mods of course.
#5 shim Apr 06, 2006 17:37:08	4d6 drop lowest die, in following fixed sequence: STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. If no 13 or higher (or 15?) or no +3 or higher total modifier, then reroll everything. Then reroll a stat of your choice. Then you may switch 2 stats with each other. We use race mods which give higher bonusses than suggested in the Athas.org PHB, giving races ECL +1 or higher. We think that rolling in the fixed sequence prevents too much power play.
#6 ruhl-than_sage Apr 06, 2006 17:42:24	Was looking for a general idea on how everyone here starts characters, how many points do you go with for point buy? When I first started, I had characters roll, now I am going to point buy for new characters. But I was just looking for a mix of how everyone else does it. I am thinking of 84 points, 1 for 1 expenditure, which is enough to 14's across the board. Anyway, looking forward to seeing different methods. That's the point buy that I have offered my characters, but everyone take the roll instead .
#7 kilamar Apr 06, 2006 18:32:29	Point Buy 28 or 32 (more likely). Kilamar
#8 harkle Apr 06, 2006 19:14:03	My group and myself all hate point buy. Other people in my group have run with 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1's and 2's. Arrange as you like. Sometimes they say reroll only once, sometimes they say reroll until you have no 1's or 2's. I'll be starting a 2nd ed DS campaign where I will we'll be using 4d4+4 in the order rolled.
#9 kalthandrix Apr 06, 2006 21:07:12	I have also done 4d6 drop lowest, 1's are 6's - it gives more beef!
#10 master_ivan Apr 07, 2006 5:43:50	My group and myself all hate point buy. Other people in my group have run with 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1's and 2's. Arrange as you like. Sometimes they say reroll only once, sometimes they say reroll until you have no 1's or 2's. I'll be starting a 2nd ed DS campaign where I will we'll be using 4d4+4 in the order rolled. 'atta boy :D
#11 jon_oracle_of_athas Apr 07, 2006 8:53:07	I am thinking of 84 points, 1 for 1 expenditure, which is enough to 14's across the board. Anyway, looking forward to seeing different methods. That's the method I use.
#12 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 07, 2006 12:12:36	I use the basic point-buy system (1-to-1 except for scores higher than 14), usually knocking the points to 30-35 or so. I like this, because it curbs overpowered stats in my book. I dislike dice rolling for stats, because honestly... I've seen too many players who are "conveniently" too good at rolling dice -- and I have a trust issue when it comes to people making characters without my ability to check for valildity of the rolls (with the point buy system, I can count up the points and make sure the character's stats are 'kosher').
#13 zombiegleemax Apr 07, 2006 12:51:30	Out of curiosity why are you guys going with a 3d6 darksun was originally setup for 5d4. You are only giving them a max unmodified possibility of 18 instead of the originally possible unmodified max of 20.
#14 zombiegleemax Apr 07, 2006 13:52:41	3d6 or 24 point buy I'm only a Dark Sun player, this is just how it works in my other things. Yes, everyone hates me
#15 darksoulman Apr 07, 2006 14:31:16	I've given out +10 in total stat bonuses (buying up to 18 isn't more expensive), with half the stats even and the other half uneven. Results in about the same stats as Jon's method, which is slightly more elegant ;)
#16 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 07, 2006 15:05:17	Out of curiosity why are you guys going with a 3d6 darksun was originally setup for 5d4. You are only giving them a max unmodified possibility of 18 instead of the originally possible unmodified max of 20. Out of curiosity why are you guys going with a 3d6 darksun was originally setup for 5d4. You are only giving them a max unmodified possibility of 18 instead of the originally possible unmodified max of 20. This argument/point of discussion has been brought up before. It's all about probability. First off, D&D 3/3.5e doesn't use 3d6, it uses 4d6-drop the lowest. Here's the breakdown: 5d4 range: 5 - 20, evenly distributed Average rolls go to the range of 11 - 14 based on the probability curve. There is a 1 : 625 (that is 0.16%) chance of getting a 20 or a 5, there is a 1 : 125 (that is 0.8%) chance of getting a 6 or a 19. It is a 2 : 125 (that is 1.6%) chance of getting a 7 or an 18. 4d6, drop the lowest die range: 3 - 18, favoring higher-end results due to the lowest die being ignored. As such the odds for the rolls become far more complicated to calculate. Average of 3d6 rolls go to the range of 9 - 12 based on the probability curve. However, with an additional die thrown in and the lowest die drops, this becomes a bit skewed, favoring higher rolls. Assuming the majority of rolls will always have a die of 4 or higher (at least 50% of the time), the average range becomes 6 - 18, and the average becomes 11 - 14. Probability gets confusing, but for the average odds from the die being dropped, and with one of the remaining dice being in the range of 4 - 6, there is a 1 : 39 (that is 2.6%) chance of getting an 18 (substantially lower for a 3, however there is about a 1 : 39 chance of getting a 6). Note that the 3.5e rolling method is much more difficult to track with probability, due to the factor of rolling 4 dice but only retaining the top 3, than the 5d4 method is. Basically, while the 5d4 method does concievably provide a higher value, the odds are, due to the additional extra dice in the mix, that it will gravitate more to the center of the range than to the extremes. The 4d6-drop-the-lowest method doesn't have as high of an upper end, but then again, generally provides a better safegard against lower results, and higher odds for actually rolling the higher end. With fewer dice being rolled, it doesn't favor the center of the range as much as the 5d4 method does. However, it really is your own personal preference as to how you want to handle Dark Sun ability generation. 5d4 tends to produce a more average range of stats, with very infrequently getting results of 17 or higher on the rolls. The 3.5e generation method is what 3/3.5e mechanics are more geared for, with characters having higher-than-average stats, even moderately so. That said, I still strictly stick to the point-buy method personally, because I've seen too many people be able to roll dice in their favor.
#17 ruhl-than_sage Apr 07, 2006 23:14:20	That's all true, but if you will recall the 5d4 method was the one recomended for NPCs in the DS campaign setting. Whereas for PCs 4d4+4 was recommended. That skews the results quite a bit higher. Rather than an average of 12.5 you end up with an average of 14 and rather then a minimum stat of 5 you end up with a minimum stat of 8 (before racial modifiers). This is why an 1 for 1, 84 point-buy will give you the same sort of ability spread as 2nd ed. DS.
#18 gilliard_derosan Apr 08, 2006 9:28:57	Another reason DS used 4d6 drop the lowest as "standard" is because of the CR systems. Everything D&D now since 3.0/3.5 is based on a 3-18 range, not a 5-20 range. If you recall, some of the bonuses for stats used to be slower in progressing, so a score of a 16 now gives the same bonus as what a 18 or so used to give in 2nd ed. If you look at the old max attainable strength score of 21 (Half giant putting a 20 in Str then racially adding +4) it granted +3 to hit and +8 to damage. a 24 now gives +7 to hit and damage. Yeah, he does slightly under the damage he used to put out, but he has a 20% increase in hitting What he used to need a 18 or higher to hit, he can now do on a 14 or higher (assuming the same AC of course), and since he will hit more often, the damage bonus is actually very significant. And old con of 20 used to give you +3hp per die, 6 if you were a fighter. Now it gives 5 to whomever may have that score. It only takes a 16 to get a +3 So, overall, the potential of attributes has increased since 2nd edition. The new lower score range is somewhat equivalent to the old higher range of scores, hence why 18 is the general "max" starting ability score rating instead of 20 Now, back to my original post. I decided on 85 points, 1 for 1 exchange, and 18 being max. 85 instead of 84 so that they HAVE to have an odd numbered attibute, otherwise everything is likely to be equal and thus would take longer before the ever-4-level ability score increase would take effect. It gibes a nice range of scores, a character can have an 18 in an attribute without being forced to stuff 10's in everything else like it would be under standard 32 point buy (yeah, I think they could have had a 12 in there too, but it just has too low of a range for my taste), and it is not enough to have 16's in everything, so they can have 14's across the board if they choose, being bery well rounded instead of focused on one aspect. I do appreciate all the imput, and by all means I'll keep reading it if it keeps appearing
#19 phaaf_glien Apr 08, 2006 15:34:10	My group and myself all hate point buy. Other people in my group have run with 4d6 drop lowest and reroll 1's and 2's. Arrange as you like. Sometimes they say reroll only once, sometimes they say reroll until you have no 1's or 2's. I'll be starting a 2nd ed DS campaign where I will we'll be using 4d4+4 in the order rolled. 2nd Edition rules! I am glad someone other than myself prefers the traditional 4d4+4 in the order roles. Go Harkle!
#20 master_ivan Apr 08, 2006 17:04:39	2nd Edition rules! I am glad someone other than myself prefers the traditional 4d4+4 in the order roles. Go Harkle! Yeheah yeah!!
#21 Zardnaar Apr 09, 2006 5:36:13	4d6 drop the lowest or 32 point buy. Whatever the PCs prefer.
#22 zombiegleemax Apr 09, 2006 15:03:13	thanks for the math end xlorepdarkhelm but i really was more wondering if people were capping stats at 18 or 20 before racial mods. sorry for the very baddly worded question. i was at work with managers walkingall around. uning the interent for personal pursures is frowned apoun
#23 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 09, 2006 18:22:49	thanks for the math end xlorepdarkhelm but i really was more wondering if people were capping stats at 18 or 20 before racial mods. sorry for the very baddly worded question. i was at work with managers walkingall around. uning the interent for personal pursures is frowned apoun Actually, in 3/3.5e, you don't cap abilities. There's no upper limit.
#24 dunsel Apr 11, 2006 7:06:05	I let my players roll 4d4+4 because it gives them the illusion that slightly powerful ability scores will actually help them survive the campaign. :evillaugh Seriously, since they start at 12th level (I run a mid to high level campaign), they roll 4d4+4. When they first started out at third level, they rolled 5d4.
#25 gilliard_derosan Apr 11, 2006 8:56:41	Actually, in 3/3.5e, you don't cap abilities. There's no upper limit. I think he meant capping at creation.. which I do. I cap at 18 max at creation, because I don't want someone starting with 10's actoss the board and strength of a 35. Once the game starts, then the points you get every 4 levels can go anywhere, the attributes can reach any level
#26 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Apr 11, 2006 10:15:27	I think he meant capping at creation.. which I do. I cap at 18 max at creation, because I don't want someone starting with 10's actoss the board and strength of a 35. Once the game starts, then the points you get every 4 levels can go anywhere, the attributes can reach any level Ahh so he means a "soft cap" -- a personal limitation at character creation. I don't enforce any extra cap like that. I just keep increating how many points it takes to make that next ability score (2 : 1 for 15 & 16, 3 : 1 for 17 & 18, 4 : 1 for 19 & 20, 5 : 1 for 21 & 21, etc.) But, my players understand that unbalancing their scores too much results in a quick turn around back to character creation (their unbalanced character becomes dead quicker).
#27 flip Apr 11, 2006 10:24:37	Ahh so he means a "soft cap" -- a personal limitation at character creation. I don't enforce any extra cap like that. I just keep increating how many points it takes to make that next ability score (2 : 1 for 15 & 16, 3 : 1 for 17 & 18, 4 : 1 for 19 & 20, 5 : 1 for 21 & 21, etc.) But, my players understand that unbalancing their scores too much results in a quick turn around back to character creation (their unbalanced character becomes dead quicker). Which is basically the extrapolation of the point buy technique given in the DMG. Which I do happen to like ... I tend to give around 32 points, but it depends on my mood ... I'm starting to belive that a lower starting point value -- somewhere around 24 or 26 -- produces characters that are much easier to manage (as in, not plowing their way through things that should be challenging. Characters without any weaknesses are no fun ...)