They must have a symbol to display to enemies before fighting them. Their warbirds should show some heraldic picture...
So, thinking about Princess Ark, and a likely Star Trek background that's what I got:
Heldanns have German sounding names. I think they are Germans. But what kind of Germans? I think they are the expansionist ones, the ones you should expect to meet in World War II. They feel like Nazist to me.
So... having a look at the Third Reich flag I got this one:
I think you aalready know it.
Than, I want to show you the Klingon flag, from the Star Trek TV-movie well known series.
It is incredible, isn't it?
Now... Captain Kirk's Enterprise stands to Prince Haldemar's Princess Ark as Klingons stand to Heldann. Is it right?
As you can read in Wrath of the Immortals, book 1 page 39, Vanya's symbol is a lion in the Heldann Freeholds... a black lion, on a white background...
It's too inviting to resist!
Feeling that Heldann sholud use shields and not flags to hold their symbol, here's what I got for them! Hope you find it likeable.
Let me know what do you think about it all.
Roger
Interesting connection. I've never really thought about that. But I would think that the Hattians might use the swastica design as-is... They're an ugly lot of racists.
Roger
IMO that is where the Dawn of the Emperors gaz went too far. Having the Hatians (Hate-ians) be "pureblooded" racists whose Storm Soldiers wear twin lightningbolt SS-insignia on their uniforms and the Retibus Air Fleet (R.A.F.) are just too strong a WWII flavour for my kind of games.
There are plenty of other atrocities in world history besides the ones comitted by Nazis and I don't use them as models for my villains either.
Just my
worth.:-) Jesper
My favorite, however, is the first one I caught. The Karameikian City Guard, the Guard Phorsis (Forces)...
I'm a bit slow on the uptake though. Maybe we should start a new thread for all these hard to find puns. (I think Bruce mentioed in a KW Grimoire that one city was named after a donkey, or something like that, but wouldn't say which one it was.) I was always curious about that.
Roger
I'm a bit slow on the uptake though. Maybe we should start a new thread for all these hard to find puns. (I think Bruce mentioed in a KW Grimoire that one city was named after a donkey, or something like that, but wouldn't say which one it was.) I was always curious about that.
It was something more like Goat Droppings, and he answered this one on the MML some time ago, but darned if I can't find the actual message. (I'm pretty sure it's in the Vaults somewhere.)
In any case, his answer was along the lines that he might have put a village named that in there, because of all the sketchy translations they were doing with languages, and if they did it was entirely unintentional, but that he didn't recall any specific problems with names.
Though that does bring up the issue of changing the name of Specularum to Mirros, because of the connotations with a certain tool used in examining body cavities.
[EDIT] Just thought of some puns/correspondences. The river Kol-Slah in New Kolland is one. Heck, New Kolland might be one itself (New Holland).
I like that Heldannic Knight shield! Very nice. Seeing as how the PCs IMC are about to meet them for the first, I may just have to use that symbol. Thanks!
Yes, I was inspired by your tale about your PCs entering the HW via Atruaghin and going to meet Heldann warbirds ;)
Roger, you're not the only one. I never caught on to any of the puns mentioned in this thread! :embarrass
Jesper, I partially agree with you that the Storm Soldiers are a little too similar to the Nazis. But on the other hand, it's important to have bad guys, right? And the Storm Soldiers are a particularly easy to use, explicit bad guy - I've used them in my campaigns in the past, in a minor role.
I think really when it comes down to it, it's all down to perspective. Things don't have to be as clear cut (Storm Soldiers = Nazi SS, Retebius Air Fleet = RAF) as they might seem; in the end it's up to the DM to decide how similar or different to make things to their apparent sources. The players probably won't all notice the similarities anyway.
1) Thar's Legion = French Foreign Legion (for humanoids)
2) E.L.F. and F.A.I.R.Y. movements in Glantri (among others) make fun of political/terrorist/freedom-fighter movements from Europe's turbulent history
3) Top Balista = Top Gun
4) The setup with the young queen and the evil high priest in Ostland is pure Alexander Dumas and The Three Musketeers
I could probably find others, but I have to get back to work.
:-) Jesper
I have mixed feelings about the Heldannics. They could end up being good-guys or nazi types IMC, but so far they have never come into play much.
I dont like the too obvious WWII references, but the Hattians still remain fascists. I might downplay their Germanness a bit though. I would certainly never have an NPC named Adolf (as is on the list of Hattian names). Adolphus OTOH, might be acceptable.
Racism on Mystara IMO works better when associated with hatred between actual races, rather than say human ethnic groups. So the Hattians IMC concentrate their hatred towards elves, dwarves, halflings and show a general dislike for women of any race. They are also culturally imperialistic, so they retain a negative view of anything non-Thyatian, including people from the colonies. Still, their focus is on demihumans and humanoids.
The Storm Soldiers (S.S.) will probably be changed to the Knightly Order known as the Knights of the Storm, or for a more Roman-style flavour, I might go for something like the "Storm Legion".
Håvard
Great Heldannic insignia Arcanda! I didn't like seeing the Swaztica in here, but I understand why you posted it. And having the Heldannic Coat of arms like that one looks cool.
Living in Japan for a while has somewhat reduced the shock-value of the swastika for me, because a version of it is used as a symbol on maps to indicate temples. (See Wikipedia.)
And there are a lot of temples in Japan, so you can imagine how common it is on maps.
Still, it can be quite a shock to see that symbol when you're not expecting it.
I dont like the too obvious WWII references, but the Hattians still remain fascists. I might downplay their Germanness a bit though. I would certainly never have an NPC named Adolf (as is on the list of Hattian names). Adolphus OTOH, might be acceptable.
I think I would be quite happy to have a PC named Adolf - it is a perfectly good name, after all. I would probably play on my players' expectations though and make him turn out to be a good guy. ;)
E.L.F. and F.A.I.R.Y. movements in Glantri (among others) make fun of political/terrorist/freedom-fighter movements from Europe's turbulent history
I think of them as modern day Irish, with bombs, religious and political enemity, "Sunday, bloody sunday" and so...
I didn't like seeing the Swaztica in here, but I understand why you posted it.
Håvard
I hope everybody understood that I postad an old German flag for no political or neonazisic matter!
It was only to show some real world and fiction symbols to start from and to obtain a significative Heldann symbol!
By the way... I see swaztics in many WWII movies... it is an historical fact, we can't deny it. Of course, if we use Egyptian-like gods for Nithian Immortal pantheon, we must know ancient Egypt. And if we want to see a symbol for Heldann Freehold, we must know the historical symbols of the real world (IMHO).
But I was not wanting to speack about XX century polotical matters! I'm here only to speack about my favoured game!
So I hope Heldannic warbirds in your campaign will show a black lion in a red and white shield
I hope everybody understood that I postad an old German flag for no political or neonazisic matter!
As far as I am concerned, you have nothing to worry about.
It was only to show some real world and fiction symbols to start from and to obtain a significative Heldann symbol!
You have nothing to worry about. You presented it in an appropriate fashion. I would say if anyone is offended by it, they are being too thin skinned.
BTW, love the HK symbol. It just shows that DnD inspiration can come from anywhere.
---Ray.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/region/keoland
(a bit small, if you can see the image without joining the group, it should be a bit easier to see here)
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/keoland/
Perhaps dropping the red or modifying it some way.
Just as a note, the Greyhawk nation of Keoland uses the black lion rampant on red.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/region/keoland
(a bit small, if you can see the image without joining the group, it should be a bit easier to see here)
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/keoland/
Perhaps dropping the red or modifying it some way.
Greyhawk? What's Greyhawk? Is it an Alphatian colony? :P
Greyhawk? What's Greyhawk? Is it an Alphatian colony? :P
It is where the Old Ones who created Mystara came from originall.
:P :P :P :P :P
The river Kol-Slah in New Kolland is one.
That's hillarious! I couldn't find it in any of the books handy... where is this from?
Some of the K:KoA insignias are pretty dull, so I wouldn't discourage anyone from improving on them ;)That's hillarious! I couldn't find it in any of the books handy... where is this from?
You know- I just checked the map- it's actually Camp Kol-Slah, and the river Kol-Dahk (which has some sort of punny effect on people who drink from it, I don't recall offhand). There is also camp Kol-Tarkee (cold turkey). There is a bit more information on them in the Player's Guide, in the description of New Kolland.
You know- I just checked the map- it's actually Camp Kol-Slah, and the river Kol-Dahk (which has some sort of punny effect on people who drink from it, I don't recall offhand). There is also camp Kol-Tarkee (cold turkey). There is a bit more information on them in the Player's Guide, in the description of New Kolland.
Oh, gotcha! I really ought to read Gaz10 one of these days
Isn't that the Republic of Kol, though, as opposed to the Principality of New Kolland in Glantri? I noticed another one in checking... the capital is Kol-Kaht (cold cut) I really enjoyed reading "The Fall of the House of Usher" for the first time several years ago and recognizing all the references with Charles and Magdalene in X2 and MoA. I think it would be great to compile some sort of comprehensive list of these puns and references, although I think it might be a never-ending job!
Just as a note, the Greyhawk nation of Keoland uses the black lion rampant on red.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/region/keoland
(a bit small, if you can see the image without joining the group, it should be a bit easier to see here)
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/keoland/
Perhaps dropping the red or modifying it some way.
I don't think the logos are too similar - Arcanda's is on a white circle, with red surrounding it, while the Greyhawk one is just on red, with no white.
Besides, what does it matter if something in Mystara happens to be similar to something in Greyhawk? ;)
I actually like the white circle surrounded by red better than just one colour or the other as a background.
It certainly makes it easier to make out the fine detail of the lion. I agree.
I actually like the white circle surrounded by red better than just one colour or the other as a background. Do you plan on doing up so more Arcanda?
Of course, yes!
I like so much drawing symbols. I already did something with Thorion coat of arms and Karameikos' one (and posted them here).
I need just some new idea... what kind of symbol would you like to see?
play them as a diverse group of crusaders, modeled slightly after the Jerusalem crasaders and their internal politics. The main powers of the Order (in 1000 AC at least) are pretty militaristic, power-hungry and racistic. But there are a lot of knights who actually came to build "the Kingdom of Vanya" on earth, and to protect the north against the vile Glantrians and Alphatians. These internal schisms made the knights more interesting, I think. In the end the players had to sit by and see a brave but hopelessly naive oppositionist knight burned to death.
As to the symbols: I took the Vanyan crossed swords icon as a basis for Vanyan symbolism. Thus I could actually use the word "crusade" - it being derived from the word "cross". The cross (but of course very different from christian cross) remains the main religious symbol and the basis of Heldannan ornamentation. The Lion is of course an important symbol also, as it is the symbol of the order itself.
I expanded the cross symbolism to gestures also. I stole a bit from the movie "the Wall", where Bob Geldof/Pink has drug-induced visions of a naziesque Britain. It's emblem is made of two crossed hammers, and instead of the nazist salute, people cross their forearms in front of their face, in salute.
The player also decided that the Vanyan PC would pray every morning and evening, using the cross of the sword as an altar, crusader-style. This, we decided, would of course affect the ornamentation style of Heldanndan swords. Remember, the European sword handles were pretty much based of the cross. The Vanyan sword handle would incorporate the two crossed swords, the blade of the sword itself acting as the lance in the symbol of Vanya.
I expanded the cross symbolism to gestures also. I stole a bit from the movie "the Wall", where Bob Geldof/Pink has drug-induced visions of a naziesque Britain. It's emblem is made of two crossed hammers, and instead of the nazist salute, people cross their forearms in front of their face, in salute.
Kenneth Brannagh's "Richard III" also has a fascinating imagery of a fascist Britian evolving with a Swastica like Boar-symbol based on Richard's coat of arms.
IMC, Vanya's symbol is actually a patriarchal cross:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Patriarchal_cross.png
I expanded the cross symbolism to gestures also. I stole a bit from the movie "the Wall", where Bob Geldof/Pink has drug-induced visions of a naziesque Britain. It's emblem is made of two crossed hammers, and instead of the nazist salute, people cross their forearms in front of their face, in salute.
Kenneth Brannagh's "Richard III" also has a fascinating imagery of a fascist Britian evolving with a Swastica like Boar-symbol based on Richard's coat of arms.
IMC, Vanya's symbol is actually a patriarchal cross:
The vertical bar represents the lance, while the two crossbars represent the shortsword and longsword, described as Vanyas symbol in WotI.
I also use the lion as a secondary symbol BTW.
Håvard
It was something more like Goat Droppings, and he answered this one on the MML some time ago, but darned if I can't find the actual message. (I'm pretty sure it's in the Vaults somewhere.)
Where is this place? I'm very curious now
I aways thought "Baía dos Porquinhos" (Bay of the Little Pigs) and "Cafundó" (that means rural area, backwater place, something very very far away...) funny (ok, i know, the joke isn't funny if you have to explain/translate it ;) )
By the way, Thorf, i guess you wrote "Bata dos Porquinhos" instead of "Baía dos Porquinhos"). Nothing to worry about, though.
It's another circle, but this has only the lion head & mane.
Where is this place? I'm very curious now
I aways thought "Baía dos Porquinhos" (Bay of the Little Pigs) and "Cafundó" (that means rural area, backwater place, something very very far away...) funny (ok, i know, the joke isn't funny if you have to explain/translate it ;) )
Perhaps a good translation for Cafundo would be "the middle of nowhere" or "the back of beyond".
By the way, Thorf, i guess you wrote "Bata dos Porquinhos" instead of "Baía dos Porquinhos"). Nothing to worry about, though.
Argh!!
I double and triple checked the names on those maps, but it seems there are still some straggling mistakes. Please tell me if you notice any more!Checking my spreadsheet with all the names, it seems I caught the mistake in my checking, but forgot to correct the names on the maps. :embarrass I'll fix them at the next update.
Anyway, thanks for telling me - I am always very happy to do corrections on my maps.
Perhaps a good translation for Cafundo would be "the middle of nowhere" or "the back of beyond".
Perfect translation
Argh!!
Checking my spreadsheet with all the names, it seems I caught the mistake in my checking, but forgot to correct the names on the maps. :embarrass I'll fix them at the next update.
Anyway, thanks for telling me - I am always very happy to do corrections on my maps.
And i'm aways very happy with your maps, they're excellent!
And i'm aways very happy with your maps, they're excellent!
I've corrected the maps and uploaded the latest versions. See the first page of my mapping thread for the links.
I'm also interested to know about the actual meanings of Mystaran place names - in fact I have been keeping track of them for my database project. The current plan is to have a "Translated name" field in addition to the regular place name field. That way it will be easy to keep track of all these interesting meanings.
I've corrected the maps and uploaded the latest versions. See the first page of my mapping thread for the links.
Checked
I guess that was the only Verdan spelling problem ;)
No, just found another minor mistake: Both Três Corações and Rocha dos Gatos names are duplicated on the "savage coast central" map. Again, just a small detail ;)
I'm also interested to know about the actual meanings of Mystaran place names - in fact I have been keeping track of them for my database project. The current plan is to have a "Translated name" field in addition to the regular place name field. That way it will be easy to keep track of all these interesting meanings.
Well, I guess I can help at least with the verdan names then
I'll use a simple system to make the things clear: First, the names used on the maps (and, as far as I know, the portuguese variant from Portugal), portuguese variant from Brazil, equal symbol ( = ), proper translation and the official translation (the ones that appear in the Savage Coast Campaign Book). Consider the official translation over the real one when necessary, since Verdan is only loosely based on Portuguese
Dominio de Vilaverde/Domínio de Vilaverde = Dominion of Greenvillage
-Porto Preto = Black Port
-Cafundo/Cafundó = Middle of nowhere (thanks Thorf
)-Baia dos Porquinhos/Baía dos Porquinhos = Bay of the Little Pigs
-Ponto Piratas/Ponto (dos) Piratas = Pirate's Point
-Torre do Perdáo/Torre do Perdão = Tower of the Forgiveness/Tower of the lost one (actually, this would be "Torre do Perdido" in portuguese)
Vilaverde Colonies:
-O Bastião das Tartarugas = Bastion of the Turtles
-Terra Leãoça = Lion+Jaguar Land (this one is hard to translate because it's not an real portuguese word: Leão means Lion, Onça means Jaguar)
--Rocha dos Gatos = Rock of the Cats
--Três Corações = Three Hearts
--Espora-Verde = Green Spur
--Mina Solferina = "Red Mine" (Solferino is an purple kind of red, i believe
)--Ilha Preta = Black Island
--Cabo Gancho = Cape Hook
--Postera/Póstera = Hm... this means an adjetive form of "After", I believe
-Porto Escorpião = Port Scorpion
-Porto Maldição = Port Curse, Port Malediction
--Mato Grande = Hmmm... Overgrowth bush? I don't know if this is the best translation
Estado de Texeiras = Estate of Texeiras (Texeiras don't mean anything in portuguese, but Teixeira is a popular lastname)
Boa Mansão = Good Mansion
Vila Franca = Franc Village?
Porto Punhal = Port Dagger
Velha Navalha = Old Razor
Baia da Sereia/Baía da Sereia = Bay of the Mermaid/Bay of the Siren (Siren would be, actually, Sirene or Sirena. But this is just an minor detail
)Cabo dos Caos/Cabo do Caos = Cape of Chaos
Cabo dos Cães = Cape of the dogs
(Just found this discrepancy: The first name for this Cape appears on the maps, but the second version appears on the Savage Coast Campaign Book)
Texeiras Colonies:
-Protectorado da Presa/Protetorado da Presa = Protectorate of the Fang
--Praça Forte de Texeiras = Stronghold of Texeiras
--Solidão = Loneliness
--Porto do Sul = Port of the South, South Port
--Torre Cruzada = Crossed Tower
--Poracá = I don't know if this anything in portuguese, but i believe not. In any case, this seens to have an Tupi orign (in Mystara, Jibarú orign)
--Minas da Opala = Opal Mines
--Minas da Silva = Silva Mines; Silva is an VERY common lastname in portuguese, that seens to be related to Selva (Jungle), Silvestre (Silvester); It is possible that these mines are silver mines
--Cabo das Baleias = Cape of the Whales
--Ilhas Gémeas/Ilhas Gêmeas = Twin Islands
-Colônia do Chifre (Colony of the Horn)
--Bom Jardim = Good Garden
--Fortaleza da Boa Vista = Fortress of the Good Sight
--Cabo do macaco = Cape of the Monkey
--Plantação = Plantation
Terra Vermelha = Red Land
-Serra Sanguinea/Serra Sangüínea = Hills of the Blood/Bleeding Mountains
-Campo dos Ogros = Ogres' Camp
-Campo Ladráo/Campo (do) Ladrão = Thief's Camp
-Mina do Sul = Mine of the South, South Mine
-Mina do Norte = Mine of the North, North Mine
-Antro do Dragáo/Antro do Dragão = Dragon Den
Jibarú: Most of the words don't seen to have any meaning in portuguese, although all indeed sound Tupi, except for Rio Jururú/Jururú River, that means Sad River
---
I forgot one, O Grande Escarpamento = The Great Escarpment
Kenneth Brannagh's "Richard III" also has a fascinating imagery of a fascist Britian evolving with a Swastica like Boar-symbol based on Richard's coat of arms.
IMC, Vanya's symbol is actually a patriarchal cross:
The vertical bar represents the lance, while the two crossbars represent the shortsword and longsword, described as Vanyas symbol in WotI.
I also use the lion as a secondary symbol BTW.
Håvard
Harvard, Dont you mean Martiarchal Cross? the lady Vanya did seduce the Emperor of Thyatis to corrupt the empire...
Kenneth Brannagh's "Richard III" also has a fascinating imagery of a fascist Britian evolving with a Swastica like Boar-symbol based on Richard's coat of arms.
IMC, Vanya's symbol is actually a patriarchal cross:
The vertical bar represents the lance, while the two crossbars represent the shortsword and longsword, described as Vanyas symbol in WotI.
I also use the lion as a secondary symbol BTW.
Håvard
Looks just like the cross used in the missions (missões/missiones/reduciones) here in South America (Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina)
http://www.icomos.org.br/patrimonio_brasileiro/missoes/5.jpg
Feeling that Heldann sholud use shields and not flags to hold their symbol, here's what I got for them! Hope you find it likeable.
Let me know what do you think about it all.
By the way, I like it a lot
I'll use this next time the players meet an heldannic knight, if you don't mind
Fantastic work, Wilhelm! I found those meanings so interesting! Thanks so much.
Thank you, it is a pleasure to help
But I just translated the names, who really worked hard in this was Bruce Heard. This names are great even in portuguese for portuguese-speakers, very very nice job he done ;)
They also give a clue to the area that I wouldn't have thought about at first glance, such as Cape of the Whales or Tower of the Forgiveness/Tower of the lost one. The later one sounds like an adventure! :D
Indeed
In fact, i did planned an adventure in Terra Vermelha using this idea I'm interested in your comments about the Jibarú names. I had never heard of Tipu before you mentioned it. Do you think it would be possible to find out if those names also have meanings (in Tipu)? I tried searching for a dictionary, but no luck.
Also, do you have any idea why they included some accents but not all on the official maps? It's strange. I wonder if I should add the missing accents, or if they should be left as they are.
I wish I had more chance to use my own language abilities in Mystara, but unfortunately there is practically no Japanese culture included in our world. Well, there's Myoshima, but it's not detailed.
Wonderful! Thank you so much for your brilliant list, Wilhelm. At one point I was considering looking up all the names in online dictionaries, but I don't know any Portuguese (nor Spanish for that matter...), so it's far better to get the word of a native speaker. :D
Thanks and thanks :D
I know how difficult is this. I had to look in the dictionary twice to make this list
I'm interested in your comments about the Jibarú names. I had never heard of Tipu before you mentioned it. Do you think it would be possible to find out if those names also have meanings (in Tipu)? I tried searching for a dictionary, but no luck.
You mean Tupi? Hm, I don't know where we could get an tupi dictionary, even here in Brazil (although Tupi influence is quite obvious when looking Brazil maps, like Curitiba, Cuiabá, Xingú River (just like Xingá River in Jibarú)). I know just a little, like "içu", that means "big". But I'll try to discover more about Jibarú names
Also, do you have any idea why they included some accents but not all on the official maps? It's strange. I wonder if I should add the missing accents, or if they should be left as they are.
Well, i'm not sure about verdan accents. Probably they just forgot to put those. I guess it's better left this way or make versions, one using the official names and an alternaive one, using the "correct" ones. This would be useful to correct the Cabo dos Caos/Cabo dos Cães problem (not just the fact that this cape has two official names, but also that "caos", like "chaos", isn't plural, so it should be "Cabo do Caos", not "Cabo dos Caos").
But will you put the accents on the Jibarú maps? ;)
I wish I had more chance to use my own language abilities in Mystara, but unfortunately there is practically no Japanese culture included in our world. Well, there's Myoshima, but it's not detailed.
Well, portuguese is only useful in Mystara/Red Steel. Most of RPG settings don't include Portugal versions, like 7th Sea. That's one reason that i love Mystara so much :D
By the way, I like it a lot
I'll use this next time the players meet an heldannic knight, if you don't mind
Of course, I'llbe very happy knowing you'll use my Hedann symbol! Let me know about your adventures with it!
I wish I had more chance to use my own language abilities in Mystara
I'd like to, but I think there is only a small principate in Glantri of Italian-speacking people.
As far as I remember (I have no manual here)
Castelbianco = Whitestronghold
Innocenti di Malapietra = Innocents of Sadstone
Caurenze, Lizzieni and Verazzano have no meaning, also if they are truly Italian sounding names. Caurenze is similar to Firenze (the town of Florence).
Of course, I'llbe very happy knowing you'll use my Hedann symbol! Let me know about your adventures with it!
I'd like to, but I think there is only a small principate in Glantri of Italian-speacking people.
And what about Kerendas?
In my campaign, the traladaran city-states are so heavly influenced with thyatian cluture/slag language that they look like more like the renassance italian city-states (Slagovici instead of Slagovich, for example). I made the things this way because i don't know much about the balcanic cultures, because italian sound so fammiliar in Brazil (a lot of italian immigrants came to Brazil in the XIX century and brazilian culture have an deep italian influence; besides, italian, portuguese and spanish are, indeed, very closely related languages
), and because my campaign is more like "Real world during XVI century" (Eusdria are more like Holy Roman Empire; Robrenn are more like XVI century Ireland; Dunwick are more like Netherlands (and the original name in the local language is Dunwijk)), so it's like sothening is missing without the italian city-states As far as I remember (I have no manual here)
Castelbianco = Whitestronghold
Innocenti di Malapietra = Innocents of Sadstone
Could Malapietra also means "badstone"?
Caurenze, Lizzieni and Verazzano have no meaning, also if they are truly Italian sounding names. Caurenze is similar to Firenze (the town of Florence).
Another one, "Nero" means "black" (i guess this is because his paranoia
)You mean Tupi? Hm, I don't know where we could get an tupi dictionary, even here in Brazil (although Tupi influence is quite obvious when looking Brazil maps, like Curitiba, Cuiabá, Xingú River (just like Xingá River in Jibarú)). I know just a little, like "içu", that means "big". But I'll try to discover more about Jibarú names
Oops, Tupi. :embarrass
These are very interesting for me, because the names are clearly everyday place names for you, but it's difficult to research them online because of the minority nature of the language. Thanks for introducing the link, and I agree that those names look very much like Jibarú names.
Well, i'm not sure about verdan accents. Probably they just forgot to put those. I guess it's better left this way or make versions, one using the official names and an alternaive one, using the "correct" ones. This would be useful to correct the Cabo dos Caos/Cabo dos Cães problem (not just the fact that this cape has two official names, but also that "caos", like "chaos", isn't plural, so it should be "Cabo do Caos", not "Cabo dos Caos").
But will you put the accents on the Jibarú maps? ;)
I've never been quite clear on this, but am I right in saying Verdan = Portuguese and Ispan = Spanish? I can't really tell the difference between them, because of my total lack of any knowledge of either language. :embarrass ;)
Anyway, I will go with your suggestion and keep only the officially established accents on my maps. When it comes to the database, I can enter all the alternate names - corrected, other official names, etc. - with notes, as well as of course the translation.
By the way, my Jibarú maps have had accents since a month or two ago when I updated them. :D I have yet to release the new Trident Bay area small scale map (with Red Steel additions), but it too will have the accents in place when I get it done.
Well, portuguese is only useful in Mystara/Red Steel. Most of RPG settings don't include Portugal versions, like 7th Sea. That's one reason that i love Mystara so much :D
Interesting. I think the connection with real world languages was a very good one, since it makes the names sound authentic and also a little familiar, even to people who don't speak the language. And we can easily recognise the style. I suppose that is one of the reasons why I enjoy the Hollow World so much - the Azcans, Nithians and Milenians all have very interesting, real-sounding names.
Oops, Tupi. :embarrass
Nothing to worry, i aways make this kind of typing mistakes, as you all can see (not to mention my lack of knowledge of English :D )
These are very interesting for me, because the names are clearly everyday place names for you, but it's difficult to research them online because of the minority nature of the language. Thanks for introducing the link, and I agree that those names look very much like Jibarú names.
Although they are indeed very common, it's hard for an brazilian know where portuguese stops and tupi beigns (or bantu or even italian/spanish, sometimes). Tupi words are not that common even in Brazil, but tupi influence in unquestionable (like jururú (sad), mirim (small) or içú (big)). Unfortunally, most of these words (especially place names) have no meaning in Portuguese (i have no clue what Curitiba, Cuiabá or Xingú are supposed to mean)
I've never been quite clear on this, but am I right in saying Verdan = Portuguese and Ispan = Spanish? I can't really tell the difference between them, because of my total lack of any knowledge of either language. :embarrass ;)
I guess Verdan is Portuguese, Ispan is Spanish. I would say Espa is the latin-american variant of Spanish. But this would mean that we would need an brazilian variant for Verdan (common in Porto Maldição, Porto Escorpião and Colony of the Horn) as well. I might even say that the verdan variant spoke in Vila Franca (where Barony of Marino existed) is equivalent to Galician, closely related to Portuguese but with heavily Spanish influence.
Don't worry, portuguese, spanish, italian, galician, all are very closely related languages, they really look similar to one another (some years ago a could't tell the difference between spanish and italian, for example)
Anyway, I will go with your suggestion and keep only the officially established accents on my maps. When it comes to the database, I can enter all the alternate names - corrected, other official names, etc. - with notes, as well as of course the translation.
If you need any help, please tell me
By the way, my Jibarú maps have had accents since a month or two ago when I updated them. :D I have yet to release the new Trident Bay area small scale map (with Red Steel additions), but it too will have the accents in place when I get it done.
Just mentioned it because these accents were there on the original map
By the way, these accents are following the portuguese rules. I can't help imagining that Verdan language already have some influence on Jibar Interesting. I think the connection with real world languages was a very good one, since it makes the names sound authentic and also a little familiar, even to people who don't speak the language. And we can easily recognise the style. I suppose that is one of the reasons why I enjoy the Hollow World so much - the Azcans, Nithians and Milenians all have very interesting, real-sounding names.
I always felt the same
Too bad that there is no Inca equivalent on the Hollow World 
In my campaign, the traladaran city-states are so heavly influenced with thyatian cluture/slag language that they look like more like the renassance italian city-states (Slagovici instead of Slagovich, for example). I made the things this way because i don't know much about the balcanic cultures, because italian sound so fammiliar in Brazil (a lot of italian immigrants came to Brazil in the XIX century and brazilian culture have an deep italian influence; besides, italian, portuguese and spanish are, indeed, very closely related languages
Croatian coasts was in the Venician Republic, so it is easy to think Slagovich as Slagovici: you are not far from the historical reference.
If you look at the Gulf of Hule map, you have Balcanic cultures in the east cost (Slagovich and City States), you have Hispanic cultures in the east coast (Savage Baronies). Black skinned peoples in the south (Yavdlom). What you really miss is, in the middle, an Italian peninsula and you would get a piece of Mediterranian Sea.
We have 2 interesting island, with no canon source (as far as I know): Berat Island (village of Jezevo) and Island of Vlör (village of Kruië). Interesting, Vlöre is a real world Albanian city (in local language, I don't know if there is an English name).
Croatian coasts was in the Venician Republic, so it is easy to think Slagovich as Slagovici: you are not far from the historical reference.
If you look at the Gulf of Hule map, you have Balcanic cultures in the east cost (Slagovich and City States), you have Hispanic cultures in the east coast (Savage Baronies). Black skinned peoples in the south (Yavdlom). What you really miss is, in the middle, an Italian peninsula and you would get a piece of Mediterranian Sea.
We have 2 interesting island, with no canon source (as far as I know): Berat Island (village of Jezevo) and Island of Vlör (village of Kruië). Interesting, Vlöre is a real world Albanian city (in local language, I don't know if there is an English name).
Yes, my original idea was, indeed, based on Dalmatia. But due my lack of sources about the balcanic region, the fact that "Slag" have its name because Slagovich and Slagovici/Nova Svoga/Zagora could be italian-sound names (ok, pehaps not the best ones, but still...
), I just made the entire region "italian" in my campaign (fortunately, i never had to think about Zvornik and, especially, Hojah :D )I guess it would be hard to change these islands in mystaran versions of Italia... or am I wrong?
Pehaps if Berat name was, in fact, Berato or Liberato and Iezevo instead of Jezevo... hm... Editing: "Nuova Svoga" sounds more italian than "Nova Svoga"