If your players are required to save that often, you're doing something wrong. RL isn't about throwing hordes of undead critters (or other abominations) at the PC every encounter. Fear/horror are best used sparingly.
Often, players in games I run aren't required to save because a particular creature showed up but rather because of the "scenery" (so to speak).
Build tension, slowly but steadily, till they are exposed to "that which man wasn't meant to know". That's when you hit them, hard, with a well-justified save.
Of course, it depends a bit on your players and what they have encountered till that point. If they are 1st lvl and meet zombies for the first time, a save would certainly be in order. If they're 10th lvl and have hacked more undead parts than there are trees in a forest, then no.
That said, keep in mind things are rarely that simple in RL. Ain't no thing like a "simple" zombie (and with the VRGttWD, even a zombie can become a fearsome adversary). The trick is to surprise them, so use gruesome descriptions to validate a save.
There is nothing worse in a RL game than to tone down an encounter to a "you see two zombies shuffling in your direction; make a Fear save"
Also, I strongly suggest you reread carefully these parts in the Ravenloft Campaign setting book. The rules that prompt these fear / horror / madness checks are very clear (and no, sighting a zombie isn't included in the list
).Joël
The rules that prompt these fear / horror / madness checks are very clear (and no, sighting a zombie isn't included in the list
Fear Saves:
The base Fear save DC for encountering a menacing creature is 8 (10 if it has Fearsome Presence) + 1/2 creature's HD + creature's Cha modifier.
So, a typical human commoner zombie (2 HD, Cha 1, CR 1/2) results in a base DC of 4.
If you use the quick-n-dirty alternate rule also suggested, the Fear DC is 8 (EL +8).
Using the standard rule provided in R3E, a PC needs a total Will save bonus of +3 to automatically succeed on a standard Fear save when seeing a zombie. Even low-level characters can pull this off.
If you've ever beaten a zombie before, that drops to DC 3. If you have an axe, and you think it'll be useful for chopping the zombie to bits, even though you've never tried it before, the DC now drops to 1. If you have an axe and, because you have used one to chop a zombie to bits before, you know slashing weapons are effective against it, the Fear DC drops to -1.
Of course, this all assumes that it's just you, your buddies, and a zombie standing in a field, with nothing else going on. The DC can rise if you've never faced a zombie before (base DC 4); you're alone (DC 5); you only have a chair leg for a weapon (ineffective bludgeoning weapon; DC unchanged); and you're badly injured (DC 6), say.
This all comes right off Table 3-1 in R3E.
Plus, it's explicit in the rules that you only have to make Fear saves when you feel threatened. A single zombie would be sorely strained to provoke even a single 1st-level PC to make a Fear save in this respect.
Horror Saves:
Seeing a decaying body is a base DC 8. A "fresh" corpse is a base DC 12.
If you're good and locked alone in a room with it:
Rotted: DC 11
Fresh: DC 15
If you're good, locked alone in a room with it, and the zombie is your own dearly beloved spouse (loved one participating but not threatened):
Rotted: DC 15
Fresh: DC 19
On the other hand, if you're good, but the zombie's by itself out in the middle of a field:
Rotted: DC 8
Fresh: DC 12
You're good, but it's out in the middle of a field, you've been warned that it's out there, and you've encountered this sort of thing before:
Rotted: DC 5
Fresh: DC 8
In other words, in the last example, you just need a +4 bonus to your Will save when seeing a rotted corpse, or a +7 bonus when seeing a freshly slain corpse, to pass the Will save without touching a d20. There are 1st-level PCs who can pull this off without effort.
That's all going off Tables 3-2 and 3-3 in R3E.
Technically, yes, the rules indicate that you need to make a Horror save every time you encounter a rotting corpse. In practice, most experienced PCs can make that save automatically (there are no critical failures in saving throws, so the worst you can do is your save bonus +1, barring external penalties).
Lots of Zombies
As a note, if you're up against a shambling horde (a.ka. a mob of human warrior zombies; see mobs in the DMG II), that's a bit nastier (30 HD, Cha 1, CR 8).
Standard base Fear save: DC 17.
Quick-n-Dirty Fear save: DC 16.
You're alone with the shambling horde and badly hurt...
Standard base Fear save: DC 19.
Quick-n-Dirty Fear save: DC 18.
...but the mob has you cornered, so there's nowhere to run anyway...
Standard base Fear save: DC 18.
Quick-n-Dirty Fear save: DC 17.
...and you have an axe and you've used it on zombies before:
Standard base Fear save: DC 14.
Quick-n-Dirty Fear save: DC 13.
A shambling horde much more likely to prompt a Fear save in the first place (if your party level is 4 or lower, for example).
Horror save is about the same DC, actually -- the added physical threat doesn't really make it any more disturbing.
Fear Saves:
The base Fear save DC for encountering a menacing creature is 8 (10 if it has Fearsome Presence) + 1/2 creature's HD + creature's Cha modifier.
So, a typical human commoner zombie (2 HD, Cha 1, CR 1/2) results in a base DC of 4.
Thanks John. But I just reread this part (RLCS p 65) and I realize I might have gotten it wrong since the start... Or perhaps it wasn't clear?
If I may, in the list of what situations prompt a fear save check, you have three menacing creatures mentions:
- a menacing creature is immune to the group's attacks
- a menacing creature is at least two size bigger
- a menacing creature has the frightful presence
but none is simply "a creature is menacing you".
So I had always assumed it was only in the list of fear situations that you had to check, not just when a "creature is menacing". So I never checked for zombies before, thus the answer I gave above. Comments?
Joël
So I had always assumed it was only in the list of fear situations that you had to check, not just when a "creature is menacing". So I never checked for zombies before, thus the answer I gave above. Comments?
See above.
Plus, it's explicit in the rules that you only have to make Fear saves when you feel threatened. A single zombie would be sorely strained to provoke even a single 1st-level PC to make a Fear save in this respect.
Joël
