Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 joni-san Apr 13, 2006 20:46:51	I've been a fan of Planescape for a long time and as a finn, I'm naturally curious as to how our gods have been treated. From what I've seen it has been good for the most part... except for some typos. The "Planescape Encyclopedia Entry" for the Finnish Pantheon has the following. Ahto should be Ahti Kiputtyo should be Kiputyttö* I can help with others if they are posted. Väinämöinen* isn't listed, but might garner a mention, wasn't he a demi-god or proxy of Ilmatar in Hallowed Grounds? Vaka vanha Väinämöinen* is Ilmatar's son, so doesn't this make him a demi-god by D&D standards? I also remember that the Finnic gods were disapearing for some reason. Any explanation as to why? I have a theory of my own, slightly tied to RL events. Unlike the old Norse or Greco-Roman faith the Finnic gods have not had a big comeback like the former (ex Asatru), however they have some staying power because of the Kalevala and that their rituals are still being done (worship of the "old gods" persisted even after Christianity entered Finland). This, however, does not explain the power of some dead pantheons that are very powerfull in PS... *You must use the umlauts, it doesn't look right without them
#2 ripvanwormer Apr 14, 2006 12:08:13	Väinämöinen* isn't listed, but might garner a mention, wasn't he a demi-god or proxy of Ilmatar in Hallowed Grounds? Vaka vanha Väinämöinen* is Ilmatar's son, so doesn't this make him a demi-god by D&D standards? Väinämöinen was in 1st edition Deities & Demigods. He was listed (along with Ilmarinen, Kullervo, Lemminkainen, Louhi of Pohjola, the Son of Pohjola, and Tiera) as a hero (some of those I mentioned are villains), not a deity. Your argument for making him a deity is reasonable, but there are actually a number of half-gods who weren't given a divine rank - Theseus, for example, is the son of Poseidon and Perseus was the son of Zeus, but they weren't considered deities either. In On Hallowed Ground they were made into proxies. Väinämöinen is listed as a proxy of Ilmatar. Lemminkainen and Tiera are said to be proxies of Mielikki. Louhi, Queen of Pohjola, is said to be a proxy of Surma. Kullervo is said to be a proxy of Tuonetar and Tuoni. I also remember that the Finnic gods were disapearing for some reason. Any explanation as to why? They're not disappearing in the short term, but it says they may be slowly fading. On Hallowed Ground gives a few explanations: 1. It claims that the Finns aren't quite as fervent in their beliefs as many other peoples; they simply accept that the gods exist and that's the way things are. They save their true reverence for their heroes. 2. The gods are distant from their worshippers, concerned more with struggles against titanic creatures of darkness that constantly threaten to devour the sun, moon, and stars. 3. The Finnish gods are scattered throughout the Outer Planes and don't cooperate with one another. 4. A few of the younger deities, Kiputyttö, Loviatar, and Mielikki, are busy with their worshippers in the Forgotten Realms setting. They're quite healthy, but they're not helping out their kindred elsewhere. And Kiputyttö is dead, killed and absorbed by the nearly identical Faerunian goddess Talona (who Ed Greenwood modeled after Kiputyttö anyway). 6. Surma has been sliping into obscurity since he was imprisoned in Carceri by Ukko.