Does this sound likea good idea? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Does this sound likea good idea?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
arkus_of_landra
Apr 16, 2006 16:44:28 I'm kicking around the idea of runing a DL game with my group in the distant future (I have a D&D game and d20 modern game to get done with first.)

First I thought about running a gamein the Age of Mortals...but the more i thought about it the more I thought it wouldbe pretty cool to run a game during the War of the Lance, or the War of the Souls. I was thinking I'd give my players the chance to remold history, to let them try and see if theworld wouldn't have taken a different path if the players were able to do things differently...or maybe their actions pave the way to how the "modern" world is Kyrnn is shaped.

So, what does everyone think?
#2
zombiegleemax
Apr 16, 2006 17:02:34 I think it's a very good idea. In fact, once I tried to run a Dl game where the PCs follow the events of the Chaos War and it turned out terribly, but I think it was because Itried to remain TOO faithful to the book. However I think your idea will word because the PCs are taking their own actions in some of the events in those books. Correct me if I didn't interpret what you were saying in the right way. As long as you don't try to be TOO faithful to the story it should be very cool.
#3
arkus_of_landra
Apr 16, 2006 17:21:53 Honestly...I've never read the books, but I hear alot of good things aboutthem on these boards (but those opinions might be biased on a DL forum). I'm more faimilar with whats in the setting book and the events mentioned in the time lines.

Although seeing as this game probably won't happen in the near future I have time to sit down and find and read the books (which I think I have TXT files of somewhere...)
#4
zombiegleemax
Apr 16, 2006 18:37:15 They are very good books. Especially the Chronicals series, including the Dragons of the Summer Flame and the War of the Souls books.
#5
zeroeffect
Apr 16, 2006 19:39:25 I think doing this would be problematic. Two problems...

You run into problems if you try to be too faithful to the novels. The novels are epic in scale and are VERY focused on the iconic Dragonlance characters. This overshadows anything the player characters might be involved in.

You run into problems if you depart too much from the novels. You'll have players who are familiar with the novels, complaining that your campaign isn't authentic.

I think the late Age of Mortals is perfect for running a campaign, because nothing has been determined yet about that Age. This allows you to do things of an epic scope, without stumbling on what has happened in past Ages.
#6
arkus_of_landra
Apr 16, 2006 22:59:50 Actually, my game group is only familliar with Ravenloft, I mentioned Dragonlance and all they said was "Dragon-what?"

Personally I'm more familliar with FR...but after plaing both 2nd and 3rd edtion games, I want...no, demand something different! I don't think what you mentioned will be a too much of a problem (I stress the "I think")

I might actually have my players replace some of those iconic figures (not all of course) to allow hem some of the spotlight...but that might bastardze the story too much...but i guess I'm doing that already by allowing characters to potentially alter the Kyrnn time line.

Any suggestions how I can alter the game but keep it's epic spirit intact?
#7
zeroeffect
Apr 16, 2006 23:44:30 That's a great idea! If your players aren't familiar with the novels, then place their characters in the roles of the iconic heroes. You could even keep the iconic characters as NPCs.

Forgotten Realms is a little different than Dragonlance. The Realms are split up into many geographic areas that are largely self-contained, with very little overlap into other geographic areas. For example, the Realms seem to be designed so that roleplayers can be heroes and affect entire regions, while not affecting the entire world. You can have a campaign in Cormyr and it doesn't affect the metaplot with Elminster and the Seven Sisters. You can have a campaign in Amn, and it doesn't affect the metaplot with Drizzt and Artemis Entreri. So roleplaying campaigns can coexist alongside the novels and supplements. The novels and supplements subtley affect the roleplaying campaigns, but they don't usurp the players' glory (and viceversa)

Dragonlance is different... Typically, the novel plots affect and change the ENTIRE world. These changes are drastic. The novel heroes are at the center of the changes. The setting lends itself well to these world-spanning events. In fact, this is what we expect from Dragonlance. The difficulty comes when roleplayers want to be heroes during the War of the Lance (or the War of Chaos, or whatever). While they desperately want to be as powerful and influential as the iconic characters, they can't possibly measure up. And if you do allow them to usurp the positions of the iconic heroes, hardcore fans in the group get upset. It creates a clash between the novels and the roleplaying campaign, which weakens the credibility of the campaign. This is the reason I like the late Age of Mortals. Nothing is predetermined... At least not yet. That being said, I'm expecting more novels to come out that will drastically change the setting and steal all the thunder from the roleplayers.

In many ways I prefer Dragonlance as a setting, but I think Forgotten Realms is an easier place to run a campaign. Although, if you took the epic, world-spanning drama out of the Dragonlance novels, and made more room for roleplayers in the setting, it wouldn't be Dragonlance anymore.
#8
borris
Apr 18, 2006 5:45:59 Trying to make the PCs as powerful and influential as the iconic characters is only problem if you want to have both groups active at the same time. I've heard of many War of the Lance campaigns that go along the lines of "What if the staff of healing had been found by the PCs instead of Riverwind and Goldmoon?" In such a setting, the iconics may still exist, but they will never become the heroes of the Lance, which means it's the PCs who'll get the main roles in the history of Krynn.

Arkus, if your players don't know anything about DragonLance, that's what I'd do. Read the DragonLance Chronicles trilogy, and have your players be their own version of the Heroes of the Lance. It's probably one of the best ways to get introduced to the setting since, at that point, the characters are not supposed to know anything about dragons, divine magic, or the deities anyway. They'll get to discover Ansalon at the same time as the players. And if, after a dozen sessions, the players decide they really like the world, maybe then they can read the Chronicles, too. Hopefully, by that time, the world they're in will be different enough from the oficial version that the novels won't spoil anything for your game.
#9
mjspawn
Apr 18, 2006 22:25:56 I ran a campaign during the War of the Lance. My spin on it though was that I ran an evil campaign, with the PCs being a "special forces" type of unit in the Blue Dragonarmy, reporting to Kitiara herself.

This way I was able to keep the events in the timeline intact as the PCs went on different missions not involving the main group of characters from the novels. Every now and then to throw a bone to those who were familiar with the world, I had them run into the main Dragonlance characters, but always had an escape for the characters.. so they were basically the "recurring villians" in the campaign, with the PCs always a step or two behind where the main characters were.

Anyway, it all climaxed at the Council of Highlords in Neraka, with the PCs declaring mutiny against Kitiara in order to kill Tanis and take the Crown of Power for themselves. Ariakus was killed by Tanis/Raistlin/one of the PCs and then the fight for the Crown was on. In the ensuing melee, the minotaur barbarian took Tanis down below 0 hit points (didn't kill him). Lord Soth then stepped up where Tanis was to grab the Crown, and the minotaur said the fateful words "I cleave into Lord Soth!". Needless to say, it was the characters' last words but he died a glorious, memorable death. Now in our game, whenever somebody does something obviously stupid or puts their character into danger, everyone yells "I cleave into Lord Soth!".
#10
zombiegleemax
Apr 19, 2006 7:24:47 That's not a bad idea. I might have to try that sometime. I know my players would love the chance to be evil, and I love Dragonlance.
#11
Marcus_Majarra
Apr 26, 2006 13:03:10 I agree with Borris. The War of the Lance is the iconic world-shaping event that helped define the setting in the first place and is probably the best environment into which introduce the players to Dragonlance. The War takes its toll on the entire continent, and every locale has its own reaction to the War, from the Nightmare of Silvanesti to the Icewall Campaign against Feal-Thas to the disarray in Solamnia. Unique monsters, like draconians, also make their first appearance around that time, and the PCs play the roles of those who fight against the physical manifestation of the Age of Despair and what it meant.

What you can easily change, ironically, is the iconic characters of the War. Obviously, your players will be replacing the Heroes of the Lance, unless you want their roles to be mostly that of bystanders or unsung heroes. If you're going to replace the Heroes, it might be a good idea to modify those NPCs in the setting that normally had a special interaction with them, such as Kitiara Uth Matar, half-sister to the brothers Majere and occasional lover to Tanis. Replacing these NPCs with some of your own can be done with minimal effort. You could also help your characters develop some backgrounds that involve said NPCs, such as an elven PC relative of Feal-Thas, or an ex-Seeker, friend to Elistan, who stumbled onto the Blue Crystal Staff (or any other divine relic of your choice with which you want to introduce the PCs to the divine). You could easily conserve the kind of uprising Tanis had with any Qualinesti half-elf. A mountain dwarf could easily be a friendly rival of Hornfel of the Hylar. There were countless personalities involved throughout the course of the War. Make a list of them, and take a look at what kind of environment they are. Can they be involved with the PCs in any way?

On the other hand, if the PCs don't have the lead roles in the War (basically, if you want to leave the HotL and what they did as they are), you're both more limited and more free. You're limited in that it's better if you avoid places where the Heroes are involved if you don't want to affect the course of events. However, you're free to explore another region of Ansalon where the War is taking its toll and have your PCs affect what's happening on a local scale.
#12
arkus_of_landra
Apr 26, 2006 17:15:38 funny thing. Iwas talking to my group about it and I mentioned going back to the rules in Heros of Battle and doing it up on the front lines. Then Imentioned i more then likly wouldn't do that because we are still running awar game where the players are getting their fill of on and off the battle action. The moment i mentioned that one of the players said that would be cool, but this time instead of being the foot-soldier, they could be the commanders, the guys giving the orders and what not. Then that raises questions like, What would happen if a key victories were actually loses? what if important events never happened because the PC's were able to turn the tide of the war at a different point.

I'll think of somethign I guess.
#13
Marcus_Majarra
Apr 26, 2006 20:53:48
I'll think of somethign I guess.

There's not much choice in this if you don't want to railroad your PCs around too much. If push comes to shove, you might end up in an Ansalon that looks more like that of the Dragonlands alternate timeline presented in Legends of the Twins. It might not be a bad reference for you to read up on that alternate timeline if you have the chance. The War of the Lance sourcebook already covers Dragonarmy activity during the War, and the Dragonlands timeline presents events as they would happen should Sturm's final stand at the High Clerist's Tower not take place as in the novels and the Dragonarmies be allowed to win.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arkus_of_landra Apr 16, 2006 16:44:28	I'm kicking around the idea of runing a DL game with my group in the distant future (I have a D&D game and d20 modern game to get done with first.) First I thought about running a gamein the Age of Mortals...but the more i thought about it the more I thought it wouldbe pretty cool to run a game during the War of the Lance, or the War of the Souls. I was thinking I'd give my players the chance to remold history, to let them try and see if theworld wouldn't have taken a different path if the players were able to do things differently...or maybe their actions pave the way to how the "modern" world is Kyrnn is shaped. So, what does everyone think?
#2 zombiegleemax Apr 16, 2006 17:02:34	I think it's a very good idea. In fact, once I tried to run a Dl game where the PCs follow the events of the Chaos War and it turned out terribly, but I think it was because Itried to remain TOO faithful to the book. However I think your idea will word because the PCs are taking their own actions in some of the events in those books. Correct me if I didn't interpret what you were saying in the right way. As long as you don't try to be TOO faithful to the story it should be very cool.
#3 arkus_of_landra Apr 16, 2006 17:21:53	Honestly...I've never read the books, but I hear alot of good things aboutthem on these boards (but those opinions might be biased on a DL forum). I'm more faimilar with whats in the setting book and the events mentioned in the time lines. Although seeing as this game probably won't happen in the near future I have time to sit down and find and read the books (which I think I have TXT files of somewhere...)
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 16, 2006 18:37:15	They are very good books. Especially the Chronicals series, including the Dragons of the Summer Flame and the War of the Souls books.
#5 zeroeffect Apr 16, 2006 19:39:25	I think doing this would be problematic. Two problems... You run into problems if you try to be too faithful to the novels. The novels are epic in scale and are VERY focused on the iconic Dragonlance characters. This overshadows anything the player characters might be involved in. You run into problems if you depart too much from the novels. You'll have players who are familiar with the novels, complaining that your campaign isn't authentic. I think the late Age of Mortals is perfect for running a campaign, because nothing has been determined yet about that Age. This allows you to do things of an epic scope, without stumbling on what has happened in past Ages.
#6 arkus_of_landra Apr 16, 2006 22:59:50	Actually, my game group is only familliar with Ravenloft, I mentioned Dragonlance and all they said was "Dragon-what?" Personally I'm more familliar with FR...but after plaing both 2nd and 3rd edtion games, I want...no, demand something different! I don't think what you mentioned will be a too much of a problem (I stress the "I think") I might actually have my players replace some of those iconic figures (not all of course) to allow hem some of the spotlight...but that might bastardze the story too much...but i guess I'm doing that already by allowing characters to potentially alter the Kyrnn time line. Any suggestions how I can alter the game but keep it's epic spirit intact?
#7 zeroeffect Apr 16, 2006 23:44:30	That's a great idea! If your players aren't familiar with the novels, then place their characters in the roles of the iconic heroes. You could even keep the iconic characters as NPCs. Forgotten Realms is a little different than Dragonlance. The Realms are split up into many geographic areas that are largely self-contained, with very little overlap into other geographic areas. For example, the Realms seem to be designed so that roleplayers can be heroes and affect entire regions, while not affecting the entire world. You can have a campaign in Cormyr and it doesn't affect the metaplot with Elminster and the Seven Sisters. You can have a campaign in Amn, and it doesn't affect the metaplot with Drizzt and Artemis Entreri. So roleplaying campaigns can coexist alongside the novels and supplements. The novels and supplements subtley affect the roleplaying campaigns, but they don't usurp the players' glory (and viceversa) Dragonlance is different... Typically, the novel plots affect and change the ENTIRE world. These changes are drastic. The novel heroes are at the center of the changes. The setting lends itself well to these world-spanning events. In fact, this is what we expect from Dragonlance. The difficulty comes when roleplayers want to be heroes during the War of the Lance (or the War of Chaos, or whatever). While they desperately want to be as powerful and influential as the iconic characters, they can't possibly measure up. And if you do allow them to usurp the positions of the iconic heroes, hardcore fans in the group get upset. It creates a clash between the novels and the roleplaying campaign, which weakens the credibility of the campaign. This is the reason I like the late Age of Mortals. Nothing is predetermined... At least not yet. That being said, I'm expecting more novels to come out that will drastically change the setting and steal all the thunder from the roleplayers. In many ways I prefer Dragonlance as a setting, but I think Forgotten Realms is an easier place to run a campaign. Although, if you took the epic, world-spanning drama out of the Dragonlance novels, and made more room for roleplayers in the setting, it wouldn't be Dragonlance anymore.
#8 borris Apr 18, 2006 5:45:59	Trying to make the PCs as powerful and influential as the iconic characters is only problem if you want to have both groups active at the same time. I've heard of many War of the Lance campaigns that go along the lines of "What if the staff of healing had been found by the PCs instead of Riverwind and Goldmoon?" In such a setting, the iconics may still exist, but they will never become the heroes of the Lance, which means it's the PCs who'll get the main roles in the history of Krynn. Arkus, if your players don't know anything about DragonLance, that's what I'd do. Read the DragonLance Chronicles trilogy, and have your players be their own version of the Heroes of the Lance. It's probably one of the best ways to get introduced to the setting since, at that point, the characters are not supposed to know anything about dragons, divine magic, or the deities anyway. They'll get to discover Ansalon at the same time as the players. And if, after a dozen sessions, the players decide they really like the world, maybe then they can read the Chronicles, too. Hopefully, by that time, the world they're in will be different enough from the oficial version that the novels won't spoil anything for your game.
#9 mjspawn Apr 18, 2006 22:25:56	I ran a campaign during the War of the Lance. My spin on it though was that I ran an evil campaign, with the PCs being a "special forces" type of unit in the Blue Dragonarmy, reporting to Kitiara herself. This way I was able to keep the events in the timeline intact as the PCs went on different missions not involving the main group of characters from the novels. Every now and then to throw a bone to those who were familiar with the world, I had them run into the main Dragonlance characters, but always had an escape for the characters.. so they were basically the "recurring villians" in the campaign, with the PCs always a step or two behind where the main characters were. Anyway, it all climaxed at the Council of Highlords in Neraka, with the PCs declaring mutiny against Kitiara in order to kill Tanis and take the Crown of Power for themselves. Ariakus was killed by Tanis/Raistlin/one of the PCs and then the fight for the Crown was on. In the ensuing melee, the minotaur barbarian took Tanis down below 0 hit points (didn't kill him). Lord Soth then stepped up where Tanis was to grab the Crown, and the minotaur said the fateful words "I cleave into Lord Soth!". Needless to say, it was the characters' last words but he died a glorious, memorable death. Now in our game, whenever somebody does something obviously stupid or puts their character into danger, everyone yells "I cleave into Lord Soth!".
#10 zombiegleemax Apr 19, 2006 7:24:47	That's not a bad idea. I might have to try that sometime. I know my players would love the chance to be evil, and I love Dragonlance.
#11 Marcus_Majarra Apr 26, 2006 13:03:10	I agree with Borris. The War of the Lance is the iconic world-shaping event that helped define the setting in the first place and is probably the best environment into which introduce the players to Dragonlance. The War takes its toll on the entire continent, and every locale has its own reaction to the War, from the Nightmare of Silvanesti to the Icewall Campaign against Feal-Thas to the disarray in Solamnia. Unique monsters, like draconians, also make their first appearance around that time, and the PCs play the roles of those who fight against the physical manifestation of the Age of Despair and what it meant. What you can easily change, ironically, is the iconic characters of the War. Obviously, your players will be replacing the Heroes of the Lance, unless you want their roles to be mostly that of bystanders or unsung heroes. If you're going to replace the Heroes, it might be a good idea to modify those NPCs in the setting that normally had a special interaction with them, such as Kitiara Uth Matar, half-sister to the brothers Majere and occasional lover to Tanis. Replacing these NPCs with some of your own can be done with minimal effort. You could also help your characters develop some backgrounds that involve said NPCs, such as an elven PC relative of Feal-Thas, or an ex-Seeker, friend to Elistan, who stumbled onto the Blue Crystal Staff (or any other divine relic of your choice with which you want to introduce the PCs to the divine). You could easily conserve the kind of uprising Tanis had with any Qualinesti half-elf. A mountain dwarf could easily be a friendly rival of Hornfel of the Hylar. There were countless personalities involved throughout the course of the War. Make a list of them, and take a look at what kind of environment they are. Can they be involved with the PCs in any way? On the other hand, if the PCs don't have the lead roles in the War (basically, if you want to leave the HotL and what they did as they are), you're both more limited and more free. You're limited in that it's better if you avoid places where the Heroes are involved if you don't want to affect the course of events. However, you're free to explore another region of Ansalon where the War is taking its toll and have your PCs affect what's happening on a local scale.
#12 arkus_of_landra Apr 26, 2006 17:15:38	funny thing. Iwas talking to my group about it and I mentioned going back to the rules in Heros of Battle and doing it up on the front lines. Then Imentioned i more then likly wouldn't do that because we are still running awar game where the players are getting their fill of on and off the battle action. The moment i mentioned that one of the players said that would be cool, but this time instead of being the foot-soldier, they could be the commanders, the guys giving the orders and what not. Then that raises questions like, What would happen if a key victories were actually loses? what if important events never happened because the PC's were able to turn the tide of the war at a different point. I'll think of somethign I guess.
#13 Marcus_Majarra Apr 26, 2006 20:53:48	I'll think of somethign I guess. There's not much choice in this if you don't want to railroad your PCs around too much. If push comes to shove, you might end up in an Ansalon that looks more like that of the Dragonlands alternate timeline presented in Legends of the Twins. It might not be a bad reference for you to read up on that alternate timeline if you have the chance. The War of the Lance sourcebook already covers Dragonarmy activity during the War, and the Dragonlands timeline presents events as they would happen should Sturm's final stand at the High Clerist's Tower not take place as in the novels and the Dragonarmies be allowed to win.