[ds3-r6 feedback] Race: Elves - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[ds3-r6 feedback] Race: Elves

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
flip
Apr 19, 2006 15:00:44 This is a feedback thread I'm going to be running. The results of these threads are not garunteed to go into R7, but would definately make it into R8.

Ground rule: Please don't start the threads yourself. I've got elevated privledges that let me actually manage the threads that I start, but not arbitrary threads. Also, I'd just like to keep the pacing under control.

Ground rule: This is for feedback and observations from acutal playing, be that PC or NPC/enemy combatant. Either way, this is not the place for armchair theorizing. I want to see what a year's worth of experience has laid out.

Ground rule: Keep the thread on topic. If you must stray, start a new thread.

Elves. I'm looking for feedback on the athas.org implementation of Elves. Any issues with the racial abilities, stat modifiers and such. Is anything not clearly written up? Anything come up as overpowering?
#2
flip
Apr 19, 2006 15:01:20 Things that will be done:
Rework the Elf Run mechanic. Don't depend on concentration. Use Foritutde save or Con check.
#3
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 19, 2006 19:29:38 I don't remember if this has been changed or not, but my only gripe with the Elf was the fact that the elf run checks were Concentration checks, making Wizards and Psions naturally better runners then other classes which just didn't make any sense. It should definately just be based on consitution or a fortitude save.
#4
zombiegleemax
Apr 19, 2006 20:36:03 good point sage, i would make it fortitude because it would make sense because you use your fort to determine if you take subdual for running for fatigue and such.
#5
elonarc
Apr 20, 2006 2:42:03 Same thing is also annoying my group. Using Concentration is awful.
#6
Sysane
Apr 20, 2006 9:09:53 The only probelm I see with it being a Fort save is that elves take a hit to Con. They would need something worked into the elf run mechanic that compensates for this.
#7
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 20, 2006 9:14:10
The only probelm I see with it being a Fort save is that elves take a hit to Con. They would need something worked into the elf run mechanic that compensates for this.

It's not really an issue so much as it effects all elves and other races do not have the elf run ability. The DCs may need to be adjusted a little, but I see no need for an additional compensating mechanic.

It could be noted possibly, that the feat Endurance applies to Elf run checks...
#8
Sysane
Apr 20, 2006 9:26:23
It's not really an issue so much as it effects all elves and other races do not have the elf run ability. The DCs may need to be adjusted a little, but I see no need for an additional compensating mechanic.

It could be noted possibly, that the feat Endurance applies to Elf run checks...

Agreed. The DCs would need to be tweaked.
#9
jackmojo
Apr 20, 2006 9:49:16 The Elf Run mechanic strikes me as the only real problem point as well, in addition to ditching on the concentration check, I would be in favor of it being a single roll made at the beginging and that perhaps for each point it is beat by they can run that long before needing to roll again (at an increased difficulty) just as a simplifier more then anything else.

Jack
#10
kelsen
Apr 22, 2006 18:03:33 I suggest a simple mechanic such as FORT save DC 10, +1 for each subsequent day on the elven run. Aditionally, you could allow elves to "take 10" on this check.

The only probelm I see with it being a Fort save is that elves take a hit to Con. They would need something worked into the elf run mechanic that compensates for this.

Since a typical 3rd level warrior has a base FORT save of +3, and while running in group elves can add their leader's charisma bonus to their FORT saves, the checks wouldn´t be a problem in the first 3 or 4 days of run (assuming you can take 10).
#11
ruhl-than_sage
Apr 22, 2006 22:25:28 Yah, the average elf should be able to engage in the Elf run for 3 or 4 days at a time with little to no chance of failure. This should be used as the basis for the DC of the check, assuming an typical elven leader granting his bonus to the group.

The ability has to be functional for tribes of elves to be able to realiably run through the desert as elves do, otherwise its really a load of nonsense. If they all have to make checks to elf run even for very basic applications of the ability, then the law of averages tells us that the more elves that are making the check the more of them will fail and if several elves fail their checks everytime the tribe decides to travel, then it really doesn't function the way it's supposed to. Much more difficult checks could be made to push one self for longer periods per day and/or for much more extended perionds of time.

For instances engaging in the Elf Run for 24 hours of straight running might be DC 25, reasonalably attainable by a high level Ranger with Endurance. Also, when an elf is no longer able to run any more, they should probably be considered Fatigued.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 flip Apr 19, 2006 15:00:44	This is a feedback thread I'm going to be running. The results of these threads are not garunteed to go into R7, but would definately make it into R8. Ground rule: Please don't start the threads yourself. I've got elevated privledges that let me actually manage the threads that I start, but not arbitrary threads. Also, I'd just like to keep the pacing under control. Ground rule: This is for feedback and observations from acutal playing, be that PC or NPC/enemy combatant. Either way, this is not the place for armchair theorizing. I want to see what a year's worth of experience has laid out. Ground rule: Keep the thread on topic. If you must stray, start a new thread. Elves. I'm looking for feedback on the athas.org implementation of Elves. Any issues with the racial abilities, stat modifiers and such. Is anything not clearly written up? Anything come up as overpowering?
#2 flip Apr 19, 2006 15:01:20	Things that will be done: Rework the Elf Run mechanic. Don't depend on concentration. Use Foritutde save or Con check.
#3 ruhl-than_sage Apr 19, 2006 19:29:38	I don't remember if this has been changed or not, but my only gripe with the Elf was the fact that the elf run checks were Concentration checks, making Wizards and Psions naturally better runners then other classes which just didn't make any sense. It should definately just be based on consitution or a fortitude save.
#4 zombiegleemax Apr 19, 2006 20:36:03	good point sage, i would make it fortitude because it would make sense because you use your fort to determine if you take subdual for running for fatigue and such.
#5 elonarc Apr 20, 2006 2:42:03	Same thing is also annoying my group. Using Concentration is awful.
#6 Sysane Apr 20, 2006 9:09:53	The only probelm I see with it being a Fort save is that elves take a hit to Con. They would need something worked into the elf run mechanic that compensates for this.
#7 ruhl-than_sage Apr 20, 2006 9:14:10	The only probelm I see with it being a Fort save is that elves take a hit to Con. They would need something worked into the elf run mechanic that compensates for this. It's not really an issue so much as it effects all elves and other races do not have the elf run ability. The DCs may need to be adjusted a little, but I see no need for an additional compensating mechanic. It could be noted possibly, that the feat Endurance applies to Elf run checks...
#8 Sysane Apr 20, 2006 9:26:23	It's not really an issue so much as it effects all elves and other races do not have the elf run ability. The DCs may need to be adjusted a little, but I see no need for an additional compensating mechanic. It could be noted possibly, that the feat Endurance applies to Elf run checks... Agreed. The DCs would need to be tweaked.
#9 jackmojo Apr 20, 2006 9:49:16	The Elf Run mechanic strikes me as the only real problem point as well, in addition to ditching on the concentration check, I would be in favor of it being a single roll made at the beginging and that perhaps for each point it is beat by they can run that long before needing to roll again (at an increased difficulty) just as a simplifier more then anything else. Jack
#10 kelsen Apr 22, 2006 18:03:33	I suggest a simple mechanic such as FORT save DC 10, +1 for each subsequent day on the elven run. Aditionally, you could allow elves to "take 10" on this check. The only probelm I see with it being a Fort save is that elves take a hit to Con. They would need something worked into the elf run mechanic that compensates for this. Since a typical 3rd level warrior has a base FORT save of +3, and while running in group elves can add their leader's charisma bonus to their FORT saves, the checks wouldn´t be a problem in the first 3 or 4 days of run (assuming you can take 10).
#11 ruhl-than_sage Apr 22, 2006 22:25:28	Yah, the average elf should be able to engage in the Elf run for 3 or 4 days at a time with little to no chance of failure. This should be used as the basis for the DC of the check, assuming an typical elven leader granting his bonus to the group. The ability has to be functional for tribes of elves to be able to realiably run through the desert as elves do, otherwise its really a load of nonsense. If they all have to make checks to elf run even for very basic applications of the ability, then the law of averages tells us that the more elves that are making the check the more of them will fail and if several elves fail their checks everytime the tribe decides to travel, then it really doesn't function the way it's supposed to. Much more difficult checks could be made to push one self for longer periods per day and/or for much more extended perionds of time. For instances engaging in the Elf Run for 24 hours of straight running might be DC 25, reasonalably attainable by a high level Ranger with Endurance. Also, when an elf is no longer able to run any more, they should probably be considered Fatigued.