They just don't feel Athasian. It's pretty much all sword/shield here, net/trident there. It feels very Greek and barely Dark Sun (if at all). Dark Sun (and the gladiator's handbook in particular) introduced so many interesting new weapons that it'd be a shame to make a bunch of gladiator styles that are based almost entirely around standard d20 weaponry.
So I pose this question to you all here:
What kind of weapon combinations do gladiators use? What kind of fighting styles would you see in the arenas? How much does this vary from city-state to city-state? By race of the gladiator? What other factors affect it?
I'm sure I could dig up my copy of Verdant Passage and grab some info from that, but I'm also curious for people's extrapolations.
In the campaigns I played, a lot of two weapon fighters used impalers. The combination of a high number of attack per rounds and a devastating critical multiplier is very popular.
There's also a lot of interesting polearms in Dark Sun. I see polearms fighters as specialist against beasts and monsters in the arena. (the salvation of reach weapons!)
I would certainly see a weapon and shield style (it's been completly ignored in 3.5!).
In the campaigns I played, a lot of two weapon fighters used impalers. The combination of a high number of attack per rounds and a devastating critical multiplier is very popular.
There's also a lot of interesting polearms in Dark Sun. I see polearms fighters as specialist against beasts and monsters in the arena. (the salvation of reach weapons!)
A good sword 'n board fighter is going to probably have Weapon Focus (one-handed melee weapon), Shield Bash and Two-Weapon Fighting. Make the Weapon Style feat according to that and say if the warrior scores a critical hit on his melee weapon he gets a free shield bash on the target that dazes the target for one round. Or something to that effect.
As far as polearm, I've alwas felt it was a very neglected style. I loved the Spinning Halberd Weapon Style from the Complete Warrior and I plan to very soon have a character who utilizes this style. It's quite fun.
-X
A good sword 'n board fighter is going to probably have Weapon Focus (one-handed melee weapon), Shield Bash and Two-Weapon Fighting. Make the Weapon Style feat according to that and say if the warrior scores a critical hit on his melee weapon he gets a free shield bash on the target that dazes the target for one round. Or something to that effect.
Nice...I'm a big fan of shield bash myself. When we talk about a weapon and shield style I can't help to think about Troy. The spear and shiled duel between Hector and Achile his just awesome...feints, counter-feints, using the shield as turtle shell or as a support for trusting the spear, etc. A lot of the moves we see in this movie could inspire a weapon style...:fight!:
The only stylers that don't require Two-Weapon Fighting (that I know of) are from Races of Stone: Turtle Dart and Axespike and Complete Warrior: Three Mountains Style. It would be nice to see a few more like this.
Here is a break down of which weapon style feats Gladiators can reasonably be able to aquire without levels in Fighter: (if a feat requires an exotic weapon proficiency it is not counted as gladiators get them as bonus feats.)
Axespike (3 feats)
Shielded Axe (3 feats)
Spellrazor (3 feats, but requires spellcasting ability)
Lightning Mace (4 feats)
Net and Trident (4 feats)
Spinning Halberd (4 feats)
Turtle Dart (4 feats)
Looking at the Weapon Style feat in general, I can think of one very small change in the Gladiator class as it currently stands that would greatly increase the Gladiator's ability to gain Weapon Stlyes:
Change the Exotic Weapon special ability to the following:
Special Weapons Training: The gladiator recieves specail weapons training. At 1st level and every 4 levels thereafter he may select either an Exotic Weapon proficiency or Weapon Focus as a free bonus feat.
Just changing that one ability modestly would greatly increase the versitilty of the class with need for multiclassing into fighter and would make the Exotic Weapon Ability much more useful.
With that change the list of Weapon Stlye feats with four feats or less (obtainable by a 12th level non-human, or 9th level human) increases to include them all. Also given this ability Gladiators are far more likely to learn Weapon Style feats then Fighters, as most Fighters won't spend two feats on weapon focus for different weapons. Additionally, you don't have system where Gladiators are virtually punished for using non-exotic weapons, which I think is a problem right now.
Another thought is to include Exotic Armor and Shield Proficiencies in the Exotic Weapon Slot as well.
I have some thoughts on adaptation of existing weapon stlye feats to give them a greater DS feel too, but I'll wait to post that until I get some reactions to these ideas.
I like the idea of having the option of either weapon focus or exotic weapons as a choice for the gladiator abilities too and...well how is this.
Sage, I am currently making a Mul Battlemaster PrC and I think this would be a great section of add to it if not to the gladiator core class- So here is my challenge to you- come up with some additional combat tatic and weapon style feats and send them to me and when I get a working copy of the mul class we can work to impliment some of those items into the class.
My personal favorite is the Three Mountians tatical/style feat- combind with Awesome Blow and a half-giant (bye-bye cuz you dead now!!!)
And as far as a spear and shield weapon style, I like that alot. That was a sick sick fight :D Spears don't seem to get much love.
And as this is Dark Sun and weapon style's we're talking about, let's get a couple styles going here.
Armored Scorpion Sting Style [Weapon Style]
Requirements: Weapon Focus (Shortspear), Weapon Focus (shield bash), Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting.
To use Armored Scorpion Sting Style, the character must be wielding a shortspear and have either a light or heavy shield in his off hand. When the character makes a successful critical hit with his shortspear, he may make a free shield bash at full attack bonus against the victim. If the bash hits, the victim is dazed for one round.
Sand Howler's Claw Style [Weapon Style]
Requirements: Weapon Focus (calhulak), Improved Unarmed Strike, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (calhulak), Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.
To use Sand Howler's Claw Style, the character must be using a calhulak in a two-weapon fighting configuration. When the character with this feat makes a successful strike with both ends of the calhulak in succession, he may deliver a vicious kick to the victims stomach (or face or whatever) as a free attack at full attack bonus and the victim is considered flat-footed against the attack (unless the victim possesses Uncanny Dodge or similar).
That's what I've got for now. The second one I think might be a popular gladiator one.
-X
Hmm... I'll get back on that one...
-X
Nice- I like Armored Scorpion Sting Style - in fact it made me start writing a spear/shield tatical feat which I will post after I check some facts.
And as far as a spear and shield weapon style, I like that alot. That was a sick sick fight Spears don't seem to get much love.
And as this is Dark Sun and weapon style's we're talking about, let's get a couple styles going here.
Armored Scorpion Sting Style [Weapon Style]
Requirements: Weapon Focus (Shortspear), Weapon Focus (shield bash), Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting.
To use Armored Scorpion Sting Style, the character must be wielding a shortspear and have either a light or heavy shield in his off hand. When the character makes a successful critical hit with his shortspear, he may make a free shield bash at full attack bonus against the victim. If the bash hits, the victim is dazed for one round.
sick indeed!
spears like a lot of other weapons are grossly under rated in D&D. (Crossbows being the very first)
What do you think of another manneuver for this weapon style?
Shield Rush: make a simultanious spear attack at full BAB while making a successful bull rush.
sick indeed!
spears like a lot of other weapons are grossly under rated in D&D. (Crossbows being the very first)
I remember seeing a Crossbow Weapon Style feat over on the Skills and Feats boards that allowed a character to wield a crossbow in one hand and a weapon in the other, so they could avoid attacks of oppotunity for firing their crossbow while threatened and make an attack with the weapon in their offhand. Of course it didn't allow you to reload your crossbow, while fighting with the other hand, but if you had more then one crossbow and Quick Draw you could get some effect out of it. Anyway, it was a cool feat in terms of style.
Come to think of it, a dual Crossbow firing feat might not be a bad idea either.
Come to think of it, a dual Crossbow firing feat might not be a bad idea either.
Only if they were repeating hand crossbows- other wise they wuld be too big and it would take like 2 rounds to reload.
Only if they were repeating hand crossbows- other wise they wuld be too big and it would take like 2 rounds to reload.
The point wouldn't be to use them round after round. Just to get an extra shot off from a preloaded crossbow. In fact if you had Quickdraw and specially designed holsters you could probably carry something like six preloaded crossbows on you (with safeties of course :D ) so that you could fire twice three rounds in a row and just drop the crossbows as you use them. Of course repeating crossbows would be better, but if they aren't available in the game then...
The point wouldn't be to use them round after round. Just to get an extra shot off from a preloaded crossbow. In fact if you had Quickdraw and specially designed holsters you could probably carry something like six preloaded crossbows on you (with safeties of course :D ) so that you could fire twice three rounds in a row and just drop the crossbows as you use them. Of course repeating crossbows would be better, but if they aren't available in the game then...
The real problem with crossbows isn't firing rate it's damage!
Those weapon we're almost baned by the pope Innocent IV, because they were to easy to use. With very little training, any peasant could kill a pious and valorous crusading knight.
The damage should at least be around D10 or 2D6. It has more penetration power than most hand guns!
Considering the average technology level in DS...crossbows are a bit complicated anyway ;)
The real problem with crossbows isn't firing rate it's damage!
Those weapon we're almost baned by the pope Innocent IV, because they were to easy to use. With very little training, any peasant could kill a pious and valorous crusading knight.
The damage should at least be around D10 or 2D6. It has more penetration power than most hand guns!
Considering the average technology level in DS...crossbows are a bit complicated anyway ;)
I agree with you on both points, though I guess I was miss behaving and discussing a non-DS topic on the DS boards
I remember in the Birthright campaign setting they did more damage and were armor piercing which made sense to me.