Epic NPCs of Greyhawk - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Epic NPCs of Greyhawk

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dunamin
Apr 30, 2006 2:55:21 Can anybody provide me with or direct me to stats for famous Greyhawk characters? There’s only a few in the Epic Level Handbook.
It would be great with the entire Circle of Eight, Rary, king Belvor, Scarlet Brotherhood VIPs, etc.

As much background info on them as possible would also be greatly appreciated, aside from what can be read from the Greyhawk gazeteer!
#2
Mortepierre
Apr 30, 2006 3:37:53 Well, the trick is that precious few of them are of epic level. Probably because it was always felt that GH wasn't very suited to that level of power. I'm not saying it can't be done or that there aren't some epic individuals around but, let's face it, this is no Faerun where some folks could raze a nation if they put their mind to it. At least, as far as "canon" is concerned.

That said, if your GH campaign has reached epic level, then good candidates would be (indeed) the members of the Co8, Tenser, Rary, the Bonehearts and some people of the (former) Great Kingdoms.

Rary received epic stats in Dungeon #103 by the way.

As for background info, there is already a good deal available on CanonFire, the GH Wikipedia website and the (freely available) Ivid the Undying gazetteer. Beyond that, reproducing here "as much info as possible" could be seen as copyright violation, so no can do.
#3
mortellan
Apr 30, 2006 4:51:47 Try here:

http://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan/npcz.html

:D
#4
dunamin
Apr 30, 2006 7:40:55 mortellan, that is absolutely awesome, thanks.

Looking through all those NPCs, epic as well as not, made me think about demographics of power. Just how many characters in the Flaeness region are high-level or even epic? How many can be expected to be found within the various countries? Sure, levels don’t necessarily translate into political power; I expect king Belvor to have some “epic resources” (allies, magic items incl. artifacts, etc.).
But it would be nice to have a general idea beyond what the DMG can provide, if only for the sake of knowing the accessibility to high-level spells and items (be that the PCs looking for a true resurrection or NPCs playing power games with 9th lvel spells).
#5
ripvanwormer
Apr 30, 2006 10:59:17
Looking through all those NPCs, epic as well as not, made me think about demographics of power. Just how many characters in the Flaeness region are high-level or even epic? How many can be expected to be found within the various countries?

There's a table for that in the Epic Level Handbook (page 114). For the more tradition-minded, there was a chart in the World of Greyhawk Set (Glossography, page 16) that looked like this:

Non-Player characters of 10th or greater level are quite uncommon except in seats of power. Such centers are either where a state governs, a portion of a state is ruled, a very large populace dwells, military power is massed, or else player characters have been active for a long period of time. Most high-level NPCs are distributed as follows:

cleric types 15%
fighter types 50%
magic-user types 10%
thief types 24%
others 1%

The level of NPCs encountered is:

10th-12th level 60%
13-15th level 25%
16th-18th level 12%
19th level and above 3%

Player character-like NPCs are always an exception. The only method of determining the likelihood of such distribution is by examination of player character activity and frequency.

In the end, it's up to the individual DM to decide how many high-level characters there are in the world. By the ELH rules, the highest-level rogue in the City of Greyhawk is 1d8+12th level, and there are no more than four of those, so it's actually a lot more conservative than Gygax's rules. Using Gygax's demographics, there would be 417 "thief types" who were 19th level or higher (rounding down) in Greyhawk City alone, given a population of 58,000, and 870 "fighter types" of 19th level or higher. That strikes me as excessive.
#6
vormaerin
Apr 30, 2006 15:06:51 I am pretty sure that chart is not referring to % of the total population. Its showing the distribution by level and class of the NPCs above lvl 10, not how many are lvl 10+ to start with (a number which should be "rare"). After all, if you use that chart for all NPCs, then there are none who are less than lvl 10, which directly contradicts the introductory text's assertion of rarity as well as being silly.

So it is saying that only 3% of all the lvl 10+ rogues are lvl 19+. The DM still has to determine what "rare" is to start with.
#7
vormaerin
Apr 30, 2006 17:31:50 Personally, I think that none of the famous NPCs roaming the Flanaess should be epic level characters. I think that is what the old Quasi-dieties (Murlynd, Heward, Kelanen, etc) should be represented as. But the general trend seems to be to make those folks into outright gods and promote the top end remaining characters to epic status. *shrugs*. Not my cup of tea.
#8
ripvanwormer
Apr 30, 2006 17:34:22
After all, if you use that chart for all NPCs, then there are none who are less than lvl 10, which directly contradicts the introductory text's assertion of rarity as well as being silly.

Ah, yes. Good point.
#9
the_black_one
May 01, 2006 0:41:38 On the page mortellan mentioned... Daemonite Productions - GH NPC archive theres quite a few NPC's several by Mike Johnson and below several of my old epic conjectures on where the NPC's "might" have gone since 576 CY. A better representation of the typical NPC is either Mike's work or the NPC Encyclopedia's on the very same site.
Either way its up to the DM to choose what fits in the world.

Cheerz,

Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
#10
dunamin
May 02, 2006 9:55:07 Truth be told, I don't really fancy going into the epic level regime. Mostly because it seems near impossible to balance all aspects out, but also because it just seems... unnecessary (kind of hard to explain). But my players seem to like the idea of it, and it's worth trying. Who knows, might turn out fun.

Having decided to include epic levels, I'm thinking there should at least be an epic NPC in the Flaness for all core classes (incl Mordenkainen for wizards, canon Hazen for clerics, Lord Robilar for fighters, the Scarlet Brotherhood's Father of Obedience for monks, etc). Any thoughts on others?
#11
Mortepierre
May 02, 2006 11:45:01 The way I see it, once a GH campaign goes epic, either the PC are in an ideal position to change (quite literally) the geopolitical status of the Flanaess, or they head over to the outer planes to solve some problems linked to GH (like finding the soul gem of Iuz, or negociating an alliance of fiends to take down Iuz's daddy).

This is not to say you can't find epic stuff to do in the Flanaess itself but it depends mainly on how much you're prepared to "wipe the slate clean" in the process. Waking up the Tarrasque in the Amedio wouldn't have a big influence on Keoland (at least at first) for instance, but invading Bitterness (in the Coldwood) and unleashing Darnakurian & Hunger on an unsuspecting (former) Great Kingdom would have dire consequences!
#12
thanael
May 03, 2006 3:37:09 I pretty much agree with Mortepierre's take. The epic PCs branch out either across the planes or geopolitically.

As for Epic adventuring check out the Epichawk board at canonfire here: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=28

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dunamin Apr 30, 2006 2:55:21	Can anybody provide me with or direct me to stats for famous Greyhawk characters? There’s only a few in the Epic Level Handbook. It would be great with the entire Circle of Eight, Rary, king Belvor, Scarlet Brotherhood VIPs, etc. As much background info on them as possible would also be greatly appreciated, aside from what can be read from the Greyhawk gazeteer!
#2 Mortepierre Apr 30, 2006 3:37:53	Well, the trick is that precious few of them are of epic level. Probably because it was always felt that GH wasn't very suited to that level of power. I'm not saying it can't be done or that there aren't some epic individuals around but, let's face it, this is no Faerun where some folks could raze a nation if they put their mind to it. At least, as far as "canon" is concerned. That said, if your GH campaign has reached epic level, then good candidates would be (indeed) the members of the Co8, Tenser, Rary, the Bonehearts and some people of the (former) Great Kingdoms. Rary received epic stats in Dungeon #103 by the way. As for background info, there is already a good deal available on CanonFire, the GH Wikipedia website and the (freely available) Ivid the Undying gazetteer. Beyond that, reproducing here "as much info as possible" could be seen as copyright violation, so no can do.
#3 mortellan Apr 30, 2006 4:51:47	Try here: http://www.greyhawkonline.com/duicarthan/npcz.html :D
#4 dunamin Apr 30, 2006 7:40:55	mortellan, that is absolutely awesome, thanks. Looking through all those NPCs, epic as well as not, made me think about demographics of power. Just how many characters in the Flaeness region are high-level or even epic? How many can be expected to be found within the various countries? Sure, levels don’t necessarily translate into political power; I expect king Belvor to have some “epic resources” (allies, magic items incl. artifacts, etc.). But it would be nice to have a general idea beyond what the DMG can provide, if only for the sake of knowing the accessibility to high-level spells and items (be that the PCs looking for a true resurrection or NPCs playing power games with 9th lvel spells).
#5 ripvanwormer Apr 30, 2006 10:59:17	Looking through all those NPCs, epic as well as not, made me think about demographics of power. Just how many characters in the Flaeness region are high-level or even epic? How many can be expected to be found within the various countries? There's a table for that in the Epic Level Handbook (page 114). For the more tradition-minded, there was a chart in the World of Greyhawk Set (Glossography, page 16) that looked like this: Non-Player characters of 10th or greater level are quite uncommon except in seats of power. Such centers are either where a state governs, a portion of a state is ruled, a very large populace dwells, military power is massed, or else player characters have been active for a long period of time. Most high-level NPCs are distributed as follows: cleric types 15% fighter types 50% magic-user types 10% thief types 24% others 1% The level of NPCs encountered is: 10th-12th level 60% 13-15th level 25% 16th-18th level 12% 19th level and above 3% Player character-like NPCs are always an exception. The only method of determining the likelihood of such distribution is by examination of player character activity and frequency. In the end, it's up to the individual DM to decide how many high-level characters there are in the world. By the ELH rules, the highest-level rogue in the City of Greyhawk is 1d8+12th level, and there are no more than four of those, so it's actually a lot more conservative than Gygax's rules. Using Gygax's demographics, there would be 417 "thief types" who were 19th level or higher (rounding down) in Greyhawk City alone, given a population of 58,000, and 870 "fighter types" of 19th level or higher. That strikes me as excessive.
#6 vormaerin Apr 30, 2006 15:06:51	I am pretty sure that chart is not referring to % of the total population. Its showing the distribution by level and class of the NPCs above lvl 10, not how many are lvl 10+ to start with (a number which should be "rare"). After all, if you use that chart for all NPCs, then there are none who are less than lvl 10, which directly contradicts the introductory text's assertion of rarity as well as being silly. So it is saying that only 3% of all the lvl 10+ rogues are lvl 19+. The DM still has to determine what "rare" is to start with.
#7 vormaerin Apr 30, 2006 17:31:50	Personally, I think that none of the famous NPCs roaming the Flanaess should be epic level characters. I think that is what the old Quasi-dieties (Murlynd, Heward, Kelanen, etc) should be represented as. But the general trend seems to be to make those folks into outright gods and promote the top end remaining characters to epic status. shrugs. Not my cup of tea.
#8 ripvanwormer Apr 30, 2006 17:34:22	After all, if you use that chart for all NPCs, then there are none who are less than lvl 10, which directly contradicts the introductory text's assertion of rarity as well as being silly. Ah, yes. Good point.
#9 the_black_one May 01, 2006 0:41:38	On the page mortellan mentioned... Daemonite Productions - GH NPC archive theres quite a few NPC's several by Mike Johnson and below several of my old epic conjectures on where the NPC's "might" have gone since 576 CY. A better representation of the typical NPC is either Mike's work or the NPC Encyclopedia's on the very same site. Either way its up to the DM to choose what fits in the world. Cheerz, Rick "Duicarthan" Miller
#10 dunamin May 02, 2006 9:55:07	Truth be told, I don't really fancy going into the epic level regime. Mostly because it seems near impossible to balance all aspects out, but also because it just seems... unnecessary (kind of hard to explain). But my players seem to like the idea of it, and it's worth trying. Who knows, might turn out fun. Having decided to include epic levels, I'm thinking there should at least be an epic NPC in the Flaness for all core classes (incl Mordenkainen for wizards, canon Hazen for clerics, Lord Robilar for fighters, the Scarlet Brotherhood's Father of Obedience for monks, etc). Any thoughts on others?
#11 Mortepierre May 02, 2006 11:45:01	The way I see it, once a GH campaign goes epic, either the PC are in an ideal position to change (quite literally) the geopolitical status of the Flanaess, or they head over to the outer planes to solve some problems linked to GH (like finding the soul gem of Iuz, or negociating an alliance of fiends to take down Iuz's daddy). This is not to say you can't find epic stuff to do in the Flanaess itself but it depends mainly on how much you're prepared to "wipe the slate clean" in the process. Waking up the Tarrasque in the Amedio wouldn't have a big influence on Keoland (at least at first) for instance, but invading Bitterness (in the Coldwood) and unleashing Darnakurian & Hunger on an unsuspecting (former) Great Kingdom would have dire consequences!
#12 thanael May 03, 2006 3:37:09	I pretty much agree with Mortepierre's take. The epic PCs branch out either across the planes or geopolitically. As for Epic adventuring check out the Epichawk board at canonfire here: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=28