Well, I still have today to post this, and I don't want to wait two weeks, so... :D
I'm just posting here some comments about my three projects in the Savage Coast: Claw (very recently discussed on the MML and probably going back to there for the next two weeks), Baronato de Bênção (a.k.a. Baronato de Portos, back in 2003; I guess you all would rather like the new one, sounds more Portuguese
) and maps of the Savage Coast in the past (903 aC, 935 aC, 968 aC).It's harder than i thought trying to guess the borderlines of the Savage Baronies during this years
Especially in 935, when existed 16 baronies (Narvaez, Vilaverde, Nueva Esperanza, Montoya, Copetez, Montejo, Tanaka, Sotto, Aranjuez, Cristobal, Escudor, Rivera, Texeiras, Marino, Gargoña and Quimeras) and soe borders are hard to imagine (like Gargoña/Rivera/Escudor/Sotto); and 968 have an problem too, Baronato de Babosas: where exactly were it? Pehaps Babriz once were called Babosas? And this Barony claimed all this hulian penninsula? Or just part of it? I finally started working on Baronato de Bênção (after three years :D ). I'm planning to write an Mini-gaz for the barony (based on the Torreón Mini-gaz, i hope you don't mind, Giampaolo ;) ). I hope you all like it (and tell me all the mistakes ;) )
Bênção (Baronato de): 1020 aC
-Location: East of Aeryl, west Nimmur e Jibarú, South of Zuyevo. SC
-Area: ??? (i have no idea how to discover this
)-Population: 13.900, including 11.300 in the main settlements (humans 80%, lupin 7%, half-elven 6%, phanaton 4%, others 3%)
-Languages: Verdan, Espa (in Novo Pampa), Slag, Jibar (in Sunará)
-Coinage: Real (pp), ouro/oro (gp), médio (ep), dez/dies (sp), centavo/centa (cp)
-Government Type: Independent barony part of the Treaty of Tampicos and Signatory Council
-Immortals: Valérias ( = Valerias), Mileno (Milén; = Mealiden), Fanha (Faña; La Inquisitora; = Vanya) especially; not commonly worshipped, O Embaixador (El Embajador; = Masauwu), O General (El General; = Thor), A Juíza (La Jueza; = Tarastia)
Capital and Ruler
-Capital: Porto Abençoado (Blessed Port; population 3.300, mostly human, some half-elven)
-Governor: Barão Jorge “O Herdeiro” (the Inheritor) de Vilaverde
-Other settlements (Província de Escorpião): Mato Grande (800, mostly human), Fortaleza de Porto Escorpião
-Industries: Slaves (orcs), trade, coffee
Provincies of Bênção:
Província de Valeriana:
-Capital: Vila Valeriana (Village of Valerias, Valerian Village; 2.000, many humans and lupins)
-Governor: Baronete Luís Manuel “O Senhor de Valeriana” (Lord of Valeriana) de Babosas
-Other settlements: Mina Rica (Rich Mine; 1.500, mostly human)
-Industries: Trade, mining (gold)
Província de Novo Pampa:
-Capital: Estâncias (Cattle Farm; 1.000, mostly human)
-Governor: Governador Álvaro Lopez
-Industries: Cattle
Província de Sunará:
-Capital: Sunará (1.200, many humans and phanatons)
-Governor: Governador Duarte de Sousa
-Other settlements: Bom Jardim (1.500, mostly human), Fortaleza da Boa Vista
-Industries: Trade, sugar, spices ("Drogas do Sertão")
Bênção means Bless. Barão Jorge don't want the name Maldição (Curse) to make others from the Savage Baronies think this barony is an cursed, unpleasant place. Porto Abençoado (Blessed Port) is an growing town around the old Porto Maldição fortress.
Vla Valeriana is the name the verdans call Preuve (since the Renardie colony were conquered). Mina Rica is a new settlement that lies southwest of Preuve/Vila Valeriana; The same for Estâncias, but in the opposite direction. Sunará is an verdan trade post on Xingá river (i created this one to help the verdans of Bênção have an frequent access to phanatons of Jibarú and their culture)
What do you guys think about all that?
By the way, I am very excited about seeing your historical maps of the Savage Baronies. Historical maps are involved in one of the later stages of my secret project, so I am always on the look out for them. Eventually I want to bring them all together and create historical map sets for various different eras, although that in itself is a very ambitious project...
Sounds interesting. Can you give me some background on the history or origins?
Sure, of course.
The idea began with Zuyevo/Renardy alliance, that result on the conquest of Richland and breaks the LB Trade Company/Texeiras monopoly on the Yalu Bay. I guess most (if not all) the "colonial" settlements there (even the vilaverdan ones) profits with this commercial route; Closing it would ruin the fragile economy of these colonies (except for Preuve, Renardy colony).
Porto Maldição adquire it independence quite recently (1008) and, ten years after, is still an politically unstable place, dependant of the verdan traders that need to use their port. The Texeiras/Renardy problem would only make things worse.
While that, Mato Grande probably would not suffer much due their different main industry: orc slavery. The Bandeirantes (scouts) profit capturing the Guirronães (verdan version of the word Ghonam) orcs and selling then to Nimmur (through Porto Escorpião) and other places (Herath and Yezchamenid, for example).
Porto Maldição weren't unnafected by this war too and Dom Jorge worries more each day with Nimmur and its desire for expansion. The situation of Porto Escorpião makes him worried too, and so he decides to take part of Porto Escorpião garrison and occupies the neighbor ex-colony. But instead of resistence, the verdans welcome him and he becames "Barão" of Maldição and Escorpião.
Vilaverde knows this is an excellent oportunity to take for itself the comercial monopoly of the "Bahía de Ialú" (Yalu Bay) and helps its "offsping" barony. Renardy and Zuyevo answer the provocation attacking the verdans. texeiras also realises the oportunity and allies with vilaverde and their naval superiority (and with the help of Nouvelle Renardie spies, that don't like the idea of Renardy taking control of the Yalu Bay) makes Renardy and Zuyevo retreat.
In retaliation, General Luís Manuel de Babosas, leader of Porto Escorpião garrison, leading an small (but efficient) army of verdan arquebusiers, torreóner infantry and Guadalantan light cavalry, conquer Preuve and rename it Vila Valeriana. As payment, the Guadalantan gaúchos recieve the lands northeast of Preuve/Vila Valeriana; they call their new land La Pampa Nueva/O Novo Pampa. Not much later, Bandeirantes discover gold southwest of Vila Valeriana and found Mina Rica
Sunará was an small verdan outpost n the Xingá river until the Yalu crisis; during this brief period, the spices (drogas do sertão) gain more importance while Bom Jardim suffered the economic problem. Jealous of it and thinking in take part of Sunará profits fo itself, Bom Jardim send troops to this small and almost-independant texeiran colony. Without other options, Sunará governor, Duarte de Sousa, asked to became part of Dom Jorge new barony. Thus Luís Manuel was sended to Sunará to expel the invading troops. Then he landed on the Colony of the Horn and ocupied it, claiming this colony as part of the new barony as well.
With the Treaty of Alcântara, Vilaverde, Texeiras and Zuyevo recognized the new barony (now renamed as Baronato de Bênção); Bênção kept Sunará and Bom Jardim and Texeiras gained trade privileges (just like Vilaverde for the inicial support) as an compensation for the lost territory; Zuyevo kept Richland and agreed to trade with the verdans instead of trying to conquer all Yalu Bay (at least for now); Bênção ratified the Treaty of Tampicos and became member of the Signatory Council (Barão Jorge "O Herdeiro" thinks that this way Bênção would be more easily accepted by the other baronies as one of them)
-----
Porto Abençoado is something like both Rio de Janeiro and Salvador (both were capitals). Vila Valeriana also resembles Rio de Janeiro, and São Luís (both once were french colonies); also were based on Mariana (town in Minas Gerais close to Vila Rica). Mina Rica were based on Vila Rica (town in Minas Gerais that was famous for its gold mines). Mato Grande is very simmilar to São Paulo during XVI century. Bom Jardim looks like "Nordeste" (northeast) of Brazil. Estâncias and Novo Pampa were based on rio Grande do Sul (much like Guadalante/Argentina). Sunará weren't based on an real town, but introduced to make the cultural contact between verdans and phanatons more frequent; Sunará and Bom Jardim situation were based on "Guerra dos Mascates" (War of the Merchants), Bom Jardim as Olinda, Sunará as Recife.
Phew, that was big :D
By the way, I am very excited about seeing your historical maps of the Savage Baronies. Historical maps are involved in one of the later stages of my secret project, so I am always on the look out for them. Eventually I want to bring them all together and create historical map sets for various different eras, although that in itself is a very ambitious project...
Really? I guess we could work on this together then ;)
903 - the first two baronies, Narvaez and Vilaverde
935 - When Ispans began seeing thenselves as Verdan or Espa; This is also when there were the biggest number of baronies in the region (16)
968 - Treaty of Tampicos and the Signatory Council; Also when the baronies reached their maximun extension: Babosas and Los Elegidos still existed in 968
Since i only have an limited tool for mapping (Wilderness Mapper) anda wanted to do this "map" quickly, then.. well... you can see for yourselves
(sorry Thorf, hope you don't mind ;) )
1 - Narvaez (902)
2 - Vilaverde (903)
3 - Nueva Esperanza (905, from Narvaez)
4 - Montoya (906, from Narvaez)
5 - Copetez (908)
6 - Montejo (909)
7 - Tanaka (909)
8 - Sotto (913, from Narvaez)
9 - Aranjuez (915)
10 - Cristobal (916)
11 - Escudor (921, from Sotto)
12 - Rivera (926, from Sotto)
13 - Texeiras (929)
14 - Marino (930, from Narvaez)
15 - Gargoña (934, from Sotto)
16 - Quimeras (935, from Narvaez)
I've got a demo of AC 935 if you'd like to see what I think the states looked like.
I believe Barbosas once occupied all of the Hulean peninsula that is under the Great Enscarpment. Hule conquered it in order to have a sea-port. That's my guess anyway..
Good, Competition. That should force me to actually work on my historical maps. ;)
I've got a demo of AC 935 if you'd like to see what I think the states looked like.
Very interesting! I guess your way to think matches better with the historical description. However, the most notorios differences falls in the exact size this baronies had; I tried to make the lesser baronies a little larger (Gargoña, Montoya) and the major a little smaller (Vilaverde, Narvaez), trying to make this baronial growth more progressive during this period (considering that is more likely that the population in 900 were smaller than in 1000 or 1010). But I have to agree with your Gargoña/Rivera/Sotto border, I was having problem with that
I believe Barbosas once occupied all of the Hulean peninsula that is under the Great Enscarpment. Hule conquered it in order to have a sea-port. That's my guess anyway..
The same I was thinking. Pehaps Babriz once were called Babosas?
17 - Almarrón (936, Sotto changes its name)
- Montoya and Quimeras ceased to exist (937, Narvaez)
- Nueva Esperanza ceased to exist (939, Almarrón)
18 - Alcázar (940)
19 - Torreón (941)
20 - Bigotillos (947)
21 - Babosas (951)
- Marino and Tanaka ceased to exist (958, Texeiras)
22 - Los Elegidos (962)
23 - Saragón (966, Montejo e Aranjuez)
24 - Morales (967)
)I finally started working on Baronato de Bênção (after three years :D ). I'm planning to write an Mini-gaz for the barony (based on the Torreón Mini-gaz, i hope you don't mind, Giampaolo ;) ).
Not at all
It looks quite nice.
-Area: ??? (i have no idea how to discover this
Use Bruce Heard's demographic spreadsheets if you don't want to compute area (and population) yourself.
1- Província de Escorpião
2- Província de Valeriana
3- Província de Novo Pampa
4- Província de Sunará
Bênção occupies aprox. 54 hex (1 hex = 24 miles), quite large for an savage barony. Bênção also claims Guirronães (Ghonam tribe in the Western Orclands) but never attempted to effectly occupy this area
Use Bruce Heard's demographic spreadsheets if you don't want to compute area (and population) yourself.
Hm... i have no idea what you are talking about :embarrass
Even the seafarers elves/aquatic elves tend to worship Calithia instead of Mealiden... so, Milan is, indeed Mealiden? Or pehaps Milan is the patron of the Swashbucklers and other Immortal (Calithia or Protius, probably) takes care of the Savage Baronies seas?If I had to choose one of those two, I would pick Calithia, because Tanaka influence and because "Baía da Sereia" (Bay of the Mermaid); I guess Los Guardianos/Os guardiões might picture her as the "Mermaid Queen". but Protius could be interesting too, brought with the Ispans from Thyatis, like Ixión. Pehaps Espas worships Protius and the Verdans, Calithia.
By the way, i just realised i typed wrong Milan name; Milano and Milán insetad of Mileno and Milén (in Verdan and Espa).
Hm... i have no idea what you are talking about :embarrass
http://pandius.com/eco_101.zip
It's an Excel spreadsheet by Bruce Heard. It can be used to compute dominion population, area, military, and revenues.
An example of application can be found here:
http://pandius.com/citystat.html
http://pandius.com/eco_101.zip
It's an Excel spreadsheet by Bruce Heard. It can be used to compute dominion population, area, military, and revenues.
Very interesting! But the one you send is a shipbuilder
Very interesting! But the one you send is a shipbuilder
Check the other sheets- IIRC, the Shipbuilder portion of the Dominion spreadsheet is the one that pops up first for some reason, but the other sheets are all there.
but the other sheets are all there.
Yeah the one you want is the first sheet.
Regards
Gary
Thank you all guys
No thoughts about Los Guardianos sea Immortals, anyone? ;)
I'm thinking about including Espa/Spanish names as well
VERDAN NAMES (Portuguese)
Dominio de Vilaverde/Domínio de Vilaverde = Dominion of Greenvillage
-Porto Preto = Black Port
-Cafundo/Cafundó = Middle of nowhere
-Baia dos Porquinhos/Baía dos Porquinhos = Bay of the Little Pigs
-Ponto Piratas/Ponto (dos) Piratas = Pirate's Point
-Torre do Perdáo/Torre do Perdão = Tower of the Forgiveness/Tower of the lost one (actually, "Tower of the lost one" would be "Torre do Perdido" in portuguese)
-O Grande Escarpamento = The Great Escarpment
-Escolhos = Rocks, reefs
Vilaverde Colonies:
-O Bastião das Tartarugas = Bastion of the Turtles
-Terra Leãoça = Lion+Jaguar Land (this one is hard to translate because it's not an real portuguese word: Leão means Lion, Onça means Jaguar)
--Rocha dos Gatos = Rock of the Cats
--Três Corações = Three Hearts
--Espora-Verde = Green Spur
--Mina Solferina = Solferino Mine, "Purplish Pink" Mine
--Ilha Preta = Black Island
--Cabo Gancho = Cape Hook
--Postera/Póstera = related to "Posterior"
-Porto Escorpião = Port Scorpion
-Porto Maldição = Port Curse, Port Malediction
--Mato Grande = Overgrowth bush
Estado de Texeiras = Estate of Texeiras (Texeiras don't mean anything in portuguese, but Teixeira is a popular last name)
-Boa Mansão = Good Mansion
-Vila Franca = Franc Village
-Porto Punhal = Port Dagger
-Velha Navalha = Old Razor
-Baia da Sereia/Baía da Sereia = Bay of the Mermaid/Bay of the Siren (Siren would be, actually, Sirene or Sirena. But this is just an minor detail )
*-Cabo dos Caos/Cabo do Caos = Cape of Chaos
*-Cabo dos Cães = Cape of the dogs
(*- Just found this discrepancy: The first name for this Cape appears on the maps, but the second version appears on the Savage Coast Campaign Book)
Texeiras Colonies:
-Protectorado da Presa/Protetorado da Presa = Protectorate of the Fang
--Praça Forte de Texeiras = Stronghold of Texeiras
--Solidão = Loneliness
--Porto do Sul = Port of the South, South Port
--Torre Cruzada = Crossed Tower
--Poracá = I don't know if this means anything in portuguese, but i believe not. In any case, this seens to have an Tupi orign (in Mystara, Phanaton Jibarú orign); Alternatively, could be "Por Acá", that means "This way" in Spanish/Espa
--Minas da Opala = Opal Mines
--Minas da Silva = Silva Mines; Silva is an VERY common last name in portuguese, that seens to be related to Selva (Jungle), Silvestre (Sylvan, or the name Silvester); It is possible that these mines are Silver mines
--Cabo das Baleias = Cape of the Whales
--Ilhas Gémeas/Ilhas Gêmeas = Twin Islands
-Colônia do Chifre (Colony of the Horn)
--Bom Jardim = Good Garden
--Fortaleza da Boa Vista = Fortress of the Good Sight
--Cabo do macaco = Cape of the Monkey
--Plantação = Plantation
Terra Vermelha = Red Land
-Serra Sanguinea/Serra Sangüínea = Hills of the Blood/Bleeding Mountains
-Campo dos Ogros = Ogres' Camp
-Campo Ladráo/Campo (do) Ladrão = Thief's Camp
-Mina do Sul = Mine of the South, South Mine
-Mina do Norte = Mine of the North, North Mine
-Antro do Dragáo/Antro do Dragão = Dragon Den
Others:
-Marino = Marine (although "Marino" are not an official Portuguese word (even if not uncommon as an last name); "Marinho" is the correct spelling of this word in Portuguese. It is possible that this name just derivates from an last name (like Babosas and Texeiras), but it is also possible that Marino is simply Marine in italian (less likely), spanish or galician)
-Babosas = This one could have three meanings: Like Texeiras and, probably, Marino, Babosas could be an variation of the portuguese last name "Barbosa"; Babosa in Portuguese means Aloe Vera; Babosa in Spanish means Slug
JIBAR NAMES (Tupi)
-Jururú = Melancholic, Sad
-Itucuá = Bay of the Noisy River ("Itu" means Noisy River and "Cuá" means Bay)
-Curú = Abreviation of "Curumim", that means Child
-Marau-Purú = Ornated Dawn, Yellow Dawn, Ornated Mother or Banana Mother ("Maraú" means Dawn or Mother and "Puru" means Ornated or banana)
-Marau-Uxuí = Mother Earth
-Uxuí-Bia = Earth daughter ("Bia" derivating from "membira", Daughter)
-Uatumá = Huntsman
-Cuiribá = "Many Pine trees"
-Araí = Foreigner (from Karaí/Karaíba)
-Maraá = Sound (from Maracá)
-Uí = Soul
-Cana-Uí = Sugar Cane Soul ("Cana" might means Sugar Cane)
-Acau-Uí = Big Bird Soul or Corn Soul; Acau could devire from "Acauã" (Big bird that attacks serpents) or "Açuã" (Corn stalk)
-Barana-Uí = Orchid Soul
*-Cafuá = Hideout, den (same as Antro)
*-Xingá = Probably derivated from Xingu (an famous brazilian river) which are named from an tupi tribe that lived nearby. Alternatively, could be related to the Portguese verb "Xingar", that means To insult.
(*- Both Cafua and Xingar possibly don't have an tupi orign. Instead, these words probably have an african orign)
Much of this words have a, at least parcial, Portuguese influence (at least gramatic/spelling ones) and some of then (like Jururu or Cafua) are now part of the brazilian portuguese vocabulary. This Tupi list is rather especulative. Tupi-Guarani actually language family includes many linguistic groups, with different (even if simmilar/closely related) vocabulary. I'm taking the cannon meanings for Uí, Marau, Uxuí and Uatumá as the truth and I included them in the list.
Is there any place where we might view your maps? They seem to have disappeared from the thread.
I like the work you're doing here! I had no idea that the Jibaru place names actually meant something - fascinating.
Geoff
Wilhelm,
Is there any place where we might view your maps? They seem to have disappeared from the thread.
I cant' take the credit for the maps, I just modify the borders to show my ideas
Anyway, since I don't have now a website, i'm putting these maps on a flog: http://ubbibr.fotolog.com/wilhelm_dd/I like the work you're doing here! I had no idea that the Jibaru place names actually meant something - fascinating.
Geoff
Thank you very much
Actually I guess Jibarú names were made up, but most of them can mean something (especially when considering the complete linguistic group rather than a single language). But this is not an complete list... yet ;)
Another part of the Jibar list (this are the meanings of non-cannon words):
-Sumará = Enemy (from Sumarã; Town part of Bênção)
-Iara = Mermaid (a.k.a. Calithia Starbrow)
-Tupã = Thunder (a.k.a. Thor)
-Jaci = Moon (a.k.a. Valerias)
-Guaraci = Sun; a.k.a. Ixion/Uí (that means Soul)
-Jurupari, Abacaí and Anhangá = Evil Immortals
-Curupira = Body of child ("Curu", from "Curumim", child, and "pira", body; Curupira, Caipora and Saci are names given to legendary small creatures with deformed bodies. This might be an way to describe fay creatures, nature protector spirits or goblinoids. Saci is known for using a red cap and his missing leg; Curupira have twisted feet and red rair; Caipora usually are described riding boars)
-Boitatá = Fire snake ("Mboi" means Snake; "Tatá" means Fire; This legend might be related to the Ee'aar "mad stars" or Will-o'-the-Wisp from the Grey Swamps)
This legends are popular in Jibarú and Barony of Bênção; Werewolves legends are also common in Bênção (probably due the lupin presence)
-Babosas
Babosas was an verdan-speaker barony, east of Vilaverde, conquered and absorved by Hule in 971. Originally settled by traladarans and hulian-descended humans, this region was deeply influenced by the verdan traders. Eventually, the powerful verdan traders of the Babosas family claimed this land as their own barony. The verdan cultural influence can still be noted in the names Babosas (now Babriz) and Caracóis (Snails, now Karakoy).
-Marino
Originally part of Narvaez and now part of Texeiras, Vila Franca has an unique Verdan dialect, heavily influenced by Espa (based on RW Galician). Capital of the now destroyed barony of Marino, Vila Franca has an seafarer tradition comparable to Porto Preto, also due verdan influency.
Vila Franca used to attract many Vanya followers because this town had a relic of Vanya, a weapon she possessed when she was still a mortal. How this relic ended in the Savage Coast is not known; even the story how it was found is questionable. It is said that a young cleric of Vanya had a dream where he was being guided through Guadalimas and showed where this lost relic was. The relic was brought back to Vila Franca and the fame of the lost relic of Faña/Fanha spread in the region. Not much after this, the last independent elven settlement were conquered by Ispan Conquistadores, inspired by the relic, making their way to Torreón through Vila Franca.
The relic had disappeared after the last local wars, when Vila Franca was ransacked.
(This idea was based on RW Santiago de Compostela)
-Tanaka
The verdan culture differs from Espa due Yavdlom influence. The Yavi people that settled on the Savage Baronies region was called Oiobá. This tanagoro humans lived on an small island, close to the Serpent Peninsula. Guided by an Babalawo/Ramla (seer), Ekundayo, leader of the seafarers Oiobá, ordered his people to prepare themselves to migrate, their home was no longer safe. So, they arrived in the north shores of the Gulf of Hule (906 AC) and found the ruins of a fishing village (it's name was Villa Naval). Following the prediction, they settled there, renaming the village as Adetokunbo (that means "the crown came from over the sea"). The Oiobá claimed all the region between Vilaverde and Narvaez as part of Yavdlom, absorving the local Ispan settlers and mingling with them (many oiobá found their way into Vilaverde as well). When the old Ekundayo died (909 AC), his two sons divided the land; while part of it was officialy still part of Yavdlom, the other part now was the Dominion of Tanaka, with Adetokundo as the capital.
Eventually, the Yavdlom territory became Texeiras (in 929 AC) and twenty nine years later Takana was absorved by it, renaming the name of its capital as Velha Navalha (Old Razor), derivating from the original Ispan name Villa Naval (Naval Village).
Oiobá culture deeply influenced the verdan people. This includes the verdan favored Immortals:
Oiobá | Verdan | "Real Name"
Iemanjá | A Sereia | Calithia Starbrow
Iansã | Fanha | Vanya
Oxum | Valérias | Valerias
Xangô | O General | Thor
Exu | O Embaixador | Masauwu
Iemanjá is the Oiobás' main patron due their seafarer tradition (the modern Verdans have inherited both chraracteristics). The name "Baía da Sereia" (Bay of the Mermaid) was given to this bay to honor A Sereia/Calitha.
There are other Immortals that the Oiobá that still lives in Yavdlom also worships:
Orunmilá-Ifá | Yav
Ogum | Halav
Oçanhe | Zirchev
Oxóssi | Faunus
Ibeji | Korotiku
Nanã | Hel
*Abaluaê | Chardastes
*Omolu | Yagrai
*These Immortals sometimes are believed to be the same entity (two sides of the same coin: healing and disease), but they are, in fact, two different Immortals (Chardastes and Yagrai).
-Jibarú
These are the translations of the Jibar names. This is a rather speculative list, considering Jibar is the mystaran version of Tupi language. Words marked with * aren't cannon; Translations between # are cannon.
-SETTLEMENTS
Jibarú = Great Chief's Tomahawk, "Great Chief's Warriors" ("Ji" means Tomahawk and "Mbaru" means Great Chief)
Itucuá = Lake of the Noisy River ("Itu" means Noisy River and "Cuá" means Lake, Bay or Hole)
Cafuá = Palm tree (from "Camuá")
Cana-Uí = Old-#Soul#, "Venerable Soul", "Venerable Ordana" ("Iu'Kan" means Old)
Ixuí-Biá = #Land#-Person, "Phanaton Land" ("Mbiá" means Person)
Curú = Child (from "Curumim")
Cuiribá = Many Tails ("Cui" means Tail and "Tiba" means Many)
Maraá = Rattle (from "Maracá")
Irixumá = Walk back, "Hunters-on-foot" ("Iri" means To Return and "Etuma" means Leg)
Ji-Tapará = Swallow-Tomahawk, "Winged Warriors" ("Ji" means Tomahawk and "Taperá" means Swallow)
Araí = Tempestuous (from "Arani")
Marau-Purú = #Mother#-Navel, "Terra's Navel" (from "Puruã")
Ajumá = Yellow (from "Ajubá")
Poracá = Good House ("Pora" means Good and "Oca" means House)
*Sumará = Enemy (from "Sumarã")
--------------------------------
-GEOGRAFIC FEATURES AND BATTLE SITES
Urú (Battle of) = Mouth (from "Yurú/Urú")
Uatuma-Ijú (Battle of) = #Huntsman#-Thorn, "Zirchev's Thorn" ("Jú/Ijõ" means Thorn)
Jururú (River) = Melancholic, Sad
Xingá (River) = Canoe (from "Igara")
Acua-Uí (Forest of) = Great-#Soul#, "Ordana, the Great Forest Soul" ("Açu" means Big, Great)
Parau-Ixá (Hills of) = Angry-Fellow ("Parahy" means Angry and "Apixá" means Fellow)
-------------------------------
-IMMORTALS, CREATURES AND PEOPLE
Uí = #Soul# (from "Möuel"; a.k.a. Ordana)
Marau-Ixuí = #Mother#-#Earth# ("Arya", "Mama" means Mother and "Iwi" means Land; a.k.a. Terra)
Uatumá = #Huntsmen# ("Uya" means Arrow and "Púra/Awa" means Person; a.k.a. Zirchev)
*Iara = Mother of the Waters (from "Yara"; a.k.a. Calithia)
*Tupã = Thunder (from "Tupana"; a.k.a. Thor)
*Jaci = Moon (from "Yaci" a.k.a. Valerias)
*Guaraci = Sun (from "Kwaraci"; a.k.a. Ixion)
*Curupira = Body of Child ("Curumim" means Child and "Pira" means Body)
*Boitatá = Fire Snake ("Mboi" means Snake and "Tata" means Fire)
Barana-Uí = #Orchid#-#Soul# ("Deboterame" means Flower)
Uriji-Xuú = #Forest#-#Whisper# ("Yw" means Tree and "Yurú/Urú" means Mouth)
Comments:
The settlement names seems to confirm what is already known: Phanatons were originally organized as independent tribes, which one corresponding to one settlement. Herath actions made the phanatons band together, creating the confederated nation of Jibarú (that means: the Phanatons under the rule of the Great Chief).
Sumará is part of Baronato de Bênção. Originally a texeiran trade outpost, it was placed here because phanatons didn't trust this humans, fearing that they were like herathians and wanted to attack Itucuá. That's the reason for the name given by the phanatons to this settlement. Through Sumará, the local verdan culture (Baronato de Bênção) was influenced by Jibarú.The verdans know what is a Curupira or a Boitatá, for example. Jibar culture was influenced by Verdan as well (the Jibar names on the official maps were written in Verdan, for example).
Parau-Ixá ("Angry-Fellow") Hills might have this name because of the constant threat Herath was (and still is) to Jibarú, making the local phanatons more agressive.
The native Immortals were Uí, Marau-Ixuí and Uatumá; Verdans brought Iara, Tupã, Jaci and Guaraci with then (although Ixion isn't a popular Immortal in Texeiras or Vilaverde), but they are not yet popular Immortals in Jibarú.
Boitatá is said to be an "transparent, flying snake" creature that lives somewhere close to Jibarú. According to the legend, this snake acquire this special properties because it ate mary eyeballs. This legends probably refers to Ee'aars "mad stars" ability or to the Will-o'-the-Wisps that live in the Grey Swamp. Curupira (and the simmilar legend creatures, Caipora and Saci) is said to be an small, green creature, with deformed body, that protects the forests. Curupira is known for having red hair and twisted feet; Caipora is kown for riding boars; Saci is known for having an red cap and only one leg. It is possible that this legends refers to goblins or fey creatures.
Comments, thoughts, suggestions, complainings anyone?
Very nice work, of course
Especially Tanaka, though also the work on the phanaton/Tupi language is very useful.
Any ideas on modern Babosas? It is simply abandoned, or occupied by Huleans, or there's some Verdan community surviving there?
Very nice work, of course
Especially Tanaka, though also the work on the phanaton/Tupi language is very useful.
Thanks
And thank you for all the help with the Iorubá deities
Basically it is still a sketch, I'll still working on this ideas. There are still some grammar/spelling problems as well and I believe Shawn would never even consider including this in the Vaults until this problems are fixed (hehe ;) ). By the way, I just updated it, I included Poracá in the Jibar list (hope you find this list useful, Thorf
. I'll post the complete Verdan/Espa/Jibar translations list as soon as possible)Any ideas on modern Babosas? It is simply abandoned, or occupied by Huleans, or there's some Verdan community surviving there?
I guess both Babosas/Babriz and Caracóis/Karakoy might be relatively modern settlements, probably founded during Barony of Babosas period, because their names and size. I believe both settlements might be verdan-speakers. But they seem to be small ports or just fising villages and, anyway, unimportant.
In Boyaska probably Verdan, Slagich, Hulian and Slag are spoken, especially the first two languages. But Yenigaz seems to be part of the natural hulian colonization of the land (and I never included this town inside Babosas' borders because of this).
I believe it's not abandoned, even if considering Red Steel map and all the ruined town its map includes, especially because this settlements are the major reason Hule haven't absorved Vilaverde yet (or at least tried to do so again after 1008 AC). I guess we can explain Red Steel map as Yenigaz, Boyazka and Babriz had being harassed by verdan fleet and part of this settlements destroyed.
By the way, I included one descendent of Babosas "royal family" in Baronato de Bênção's Important NPCs, Baronete Luís Manuel de Babosas (the mystaran version of Duque de Caxias).
Anyway, I'm still working on Babosas (and any ideas are, as always, more than welcome
). Both Babosas and Marino still need a lot of work... I think i'll include one more "barony" on this list, Nombre de Ixión, a narvaezan religious mission in the Western Orlands (Sulkar Tribe) ESPA NAMES (Spanish)
Baronía de Narvaez = Barony of Narvaez (Narvaez is an spanish last name)
-Puerto Morillos = Port of the rural houses
-Alma Vegas = "Alma" means Soul; "Vega" means cultivated land
-Castillo Blanco = White Castle
-Castillo de los Hidalgos = Castle of the gentlemen
-Los Peregrinos = The peregrins
-Paz del Sol = Peace of the Sun
-Ciudad Quimeras = Chimera Town
-Puente Guadiana = Bridge over Guadiana (River)
-Rio Guadiana = Guadiana River (there is, actually, an river with this name in Spain and Portugal. Guadiana means "Ana River" in Arabic/Ylari (Guad (River) + Ana))
-Punto Escobar = Escobar point (Escobar is an spanish last name that could be translated as "to sweep")
-Colinas Grutescas = Grotesque Hills
-Guadalimas = Probably means Lima River
-Montoya = Popular spanish last name (basque origin)
Baronía de Torreón = Barony of Turret
-Ciudad Morales = Morales Town (Morales is an spanish last name that could be translated as "Moral")
-Ciudadela de León = Lion's Citadel
-Castillo Grande = Big Castle
-El Lugar = The Place
-Torres Calientes = Hot Towers
-Fortaleza = Fortress
-Bastion de los Cabaleros = Bastion of the Knights
-Casa Negra = Black House
-Puebla de Alcázar = Alcázar Village (Alcázar meaning Fortification)
-Pueblo Real = Royal Village
-Torre del Duende = Tower of the Elf, Tower of the Goblin or Tower of the Fey (Duende is an generic Portuguese/Spanish name for those demi-human/humanoid creatures)
-Torre Cristobal = Cristobal Tower, Christofer Tower
-Rio Frio = Cold River
-Rio Fangoso = Muddy River
-Rio Torrientes = Torrents River
-Rio Tuntos = ?
-La Pineda = "The Pine Wood"
-Las Ciénagas = The Fens
-Chiquitin = Little child
-Villa Vieja = Old village
-Las Chambas = The Works
-Las Rocanas = The Stones (from "Roca" = Stone)
-Llanos Verdes = green Plains
-La Escarpadura Grande = The Great Escarpment
-Los Elegidos = The chosen ones
Baronía de Gargoña
-Ciudad Real = Royal Town
-Las Navas =
-Castillo de Pardalupe = Castle of "Hidden-Brown"
-Isla del Cayo = Reef Island, Key
-Delta de Poza verde = Delta of Green Puddle
-Bosque de los Ojos = Forest of the Eyes
Baronía de Almarrón
-Ciudad Tejillas
-Costella = Rib
-Paso Dorado = Golden Passage, Golden Steps
-Castillo de Tordegena = Castle of Tordegena (that possibly means "Tower of Gena")
-Sierra Borgosa =
-Sierra del Plata = Silver Hills
-La Pampa Calavera = Skull's Plains
-Escudor = Escudo means Shield
Baronía de Saragón (Possibly S + Aragón?)
-Ciudad Matacán = Matacán Town (Matacán means "Dog Killer")
-Las Manadas = The herds
-Paso del Rey = King's Passage, King's Steps
-Torre de Manzanas = Tower of Apples
-Torre de Tolón =
-Morrión (Battle of) = Helmet upper part, old spanish helmet with prominent upper part
-Cortesillas (Battle of, Treaty of) = Might means "Little Court"
-Rio Maldito = Cursed River
-Rio Copos = Cups River
-Bosque de las Sombras = Shadows Woods, Forest of the Phantoms
Baronía de Guadalante (Guad, Guada means River)
-Ciudad Huelca = Huelca Town (Huelca seems to be a kind of fish, "Macruronus magellanicus")
-Dos Cabezas Hacienda = Farm of the Two Heads
-Rio Negro = Black River
NON-CANNON ESPA NAMES:
Baronía de Sandoval = Barony of Sandoval (I guess this popular last name means "San do Val", or Saint of the Valley)
-El Puerto del Lobo = Port of the Wolf
-La Roca = The Rock
Nombre de Ixión = Ixion's Name
-------
My first thought about Cortesillas and Tordegena was that these names are the first part of Cartagena or Tordesillas with the last part of the other, but Giampaolo correctly noticed that Cortesillas is a real world place name (but there is too little information about it in the internet)
-Looking the VotPA maps, I just noticed most of Vilaverde and Texeiras names were, actually, typed correctly: Boa Mansão, Torre do Perdão, Campo Ladrão, Antro do Dragão, like other verdan names with "~" (Bastião das Tartarugas, Porto Escorpião, Porto Maldição); Thus, Red Steel map and "Boa Mansao", "Torre do Perdáo", "Campo Ladráo" and "Antro do Ladráo" are plain wrong (Red Steel map seems to be the champion in mistakes/incompatibilities ever!); Protectorado da Presa and Ilhas Gémeas are correct, but they are in Portugal variant of portuguese (but, as far as I know, these are the only two). The "ü" in Serra Sangüínea / Serra Sanguinea is actually in disuse nowadays; So, it is actually not wrong not using it. Then, the only problems would be the "´", but these are minor problens; the verdan words are actually very accurate
-Montoya have a basque origin. That is something I was talking with Giampaolo recently, we don't have a basque equivalent culture in Mystara. Although basque language makes it easier to place a M-Basque anywhere in Mystara, if it don't have contact with Espa and Verdan peoples, it would be hard to explain names like Vasco/Velásquez, Xavier and Montoya.
-Nombre de Ixión is just an idea of M-Jesuitic Missions with Narvaezan Church, partially ressurecting Lawful Brotherhood's original idea of Missions/Outposts. In my campaign, I placed this one in the Western Orclands, Sulkar Tribe, bt I'd like to hear your ideas about it too
I just realized there are a few Verdan names that haven't been included in my translation list, those from the Adakkian Sound, Davania. Geoff, did you created this part of Mystara or just made the maps?
Do you guys already know the meaning of those (five, right?) settlements or should I translate them as well? Does the pictures I'm posting on the boards appearing for all you guys, or just for me? Do they had disapeared and never came back, or never appeared at all? From my college's computers, I saw Thorf's maps but I couldn't see my pictures! Quite odd...
for me, sometimes they turn up sometimes they don't
for me, sometimes they turn up sometimes they don't
Thanks Shawn
I'll try to fix this as soon as possible
I just realized there are a few Verdan names that haven't been included in my translation list, those from the Adakkian Sound, Davania. Geoff, did you created this part of Mystara or just made the maps?
Hi Wilhelm,
I created both the map and the colonies in the Adakkian Sound region (10 years ago!
Where did the time go??). My wife had a Portuguese-English dictionary that I used to translate, but I've forgotten what some of them were supposed to be.I know that Porto Santuario was supposed to be Port Sanctuary, and Beira is a town or region of Portugal (I think). Your help would still be most welcome, though!
Geoff
Hi Wilhelm,
I created both the map and the colonies in the Adakkian Sound region (10 years ago!
I know that Porto Santuario was supposed to be Port Sanctuary, and Beira is a town or region of Portugal (I think). Your help would still be most welcome, though!
Geoff
Both are correct. And Beira means Shore (or Edge, Verge as well)
Torres Novas means New Towers
São Paulo means Saint Paul and Porto Cabinda means Cabinda Port (but I have no idea what Cabinda is supposed to mean :embarrass )
I guess you took the name Cabinda from a region in Angola. São Paulo is the biggest brazilian city, capital of the state with the same name.
By the way, since the verdans don't worship Saimpts like the renardie lupins and the renardie colony of Cap Saint-Renard is kinda close to São Paulo, pehaps this vilaverdan colony once was a lupin settlement? This makes me wonder the original name of this colony... hm... Saimpt Poodle? hehehe :D
By the way, I like very much you work on Adakkian Sound
Both are correct. And Beira means Shore (or Edge, Verge as well)
Torres Novas means New Towers
São Paulo means Saint Paul and Porto Cabinda means Cabinda Port (but I have no idea what Cabinda is supposed to mean :embarrass )
I guess you took the name Cabinda from a region in Angola. São Paulo is the biggest brazilian city, capital of the state with the same name.
That's right - Cabinda is that little part of Angola cut off from the rest of the country by the Republic of Congo. I threw in the Angola reference because my wife's originally from there.
By the way, since the verdans don't worship Saimpts like the renardie lupins and the renardie colony of Cap Saint-Renard is kinda close to São Paulo, pehaps this vilaverdan colony once was a lupin settlement? This makes me wonder the original name of this colony... hm... Saimpt Poodle? hehehe :D
:D And what would that be in Portuguese? I have been thinking, for quite some time now, of revisiting some of my older works to expand on them a bit more. Perhaps this discussion is as good a time as any to start.
I do have an article (about 90% complete) on the history of the Adakaners and their involvement with the lupins in Cap Saint/Saimpt Renard. There is no reason why the Renardois could not have founded another colony elsewhere, which the Verdans could have conquered. I'll make an effort to finish that article, and post it under a separate thread...
Some preliminary thoughts...perhaps the other Renardois colony was founded shortly after initial contact with the Adakaners was made, to trade with native tribes living further inland (this makes more sense once you read the article in question). Later on, as tensions rose, Renardie beefed up its military presence in the region, which alarmed Vilaverde and possibly Texerias (who had their own mercantile interests). Things got a little out of hand, and once Renardie moved in and conquered the Adakaners, other seafaring nations in the region tried to restore the balance. Vilaverde saw an opportunity, and seized the colony that would become Sao Paulo.
Geoff
That's right - Cabinda is that little part of Angola cut off from the rest of the country by the Republic of Congo. I threw in the Angola reference because my wife's originally from there.
Very interesting. Could she tell us the meaning of Cabinda, then? :D I have no idea about this one
:D And what would that be in Portuguese?
Poodle would be, in portuguese... Poodle :D
I wonder if there are poodle lupins in Mystara...
I do have an article (about 90% complete) on the history of the Adakaners and their involvement with the lupins in Cap Saint/Saimpt Renard. There is no reason why the Renardois could not have founded another colony elsewhere, which the Verdans could have conquered. I'll make an effort to finish that article, and post it under a separate thread...
I'm very interested, let me know when you post it ;)
And feel free to post if here if you want, it has a lot in common with what i'm trying to do here
By the way Cap Saint-Renard was founded before Renardy adquire its french-like culture, right? This was its original name or this name changed after Clébard reign?
Very interesting. Could she tell us the meaning of Cabinda, then? :D I have no idea about this one
If you care to translate this may help.
A origem etimológica do termo "Cabinda" que , nas fontes escritas europeias dos sec. XVI-XVII, aparece como "Cabinde", "Cabenda", "Kapinda" ou ainda "Kabinda" para designar a cidade e o porto que corresponde a presente cidade com o mesmo nome e que os naturais apelidavam , então por Kioua (deve ler-se "Tchioua") que significava "praça, mercado".
Regards
Gary
If you care to translate this may help.
I'll try to translate it to you guys
Originally Posted by www.cabinda.net
A origem etimológica do termo "Cabinda" que , nas fontes escritas europeias dos sec. XVI-XVII, aparece como "Cabinde", "Cabenda", "Kapinda" ou ainda "Kabinda" para designar a cidade e o porto que corresponde a presente cidade com o mesmo nome e que os naturais apelidavam , então por Kioua (deve ler-se "Tchioua") que significava "praça, mercado".
The etymologic of the term "Cabinda", which in the written european sources from XVI-XVII centuries appears as "Cabinde", "Cabenda", "Kapinda" or yet "Kabinda", to designate the town and the port which corresponds to the present day city with the same name, and that the locals called then as "Kioua", which means "square, market"
Originally Posted by www.cabinda.net
Segundo uma versão muito seguida o nome "Cabinda" teria derivado por um processo de aglutinação das palavras Mafuka (nome que identificava o cargo de intendente do Rei de Ngoyo para o comercio e, como tal, o homem das relações com os europeus) e Binda nome próprio de um deles.
According to one popular version, the name "Cabinda" might had derivated from a agglutinative process of the words Mafuka (name that means Ngoyo King's Commerce Intendant, and, then, the person that dealed with the europeans) and Binda, that was the name of one of these men
Thanks Gary
By the way Cap Saint-Renard was founded before Renardy adquire its french-like culture, right? This was its original name or this name changed after Clébard reign?
In my original article, the colony was founded in AC 894 - and I think Renardie was already "french" by that time (I don't have the rulebooks handy at the moment). The Adakaners article moves the date of founding for Cap Saint-Renard forward in time, to the early 900s AC, as a reflection of discussions years ago as to when the various Savage Baronies might be in a position to range farther afield.
So, to make a long answer short, Cap Saint-Renard was intended to be the original name. I tend to use "Saint" (as opposed to "Saimpt") because I believe - rightly or wrongly - that such a word, used in a fantasy gaming setting, does not necessarily imply a connection with real world religions.
That said, I understand why Bruce Heard adopted the term in his writings, and respect his decision for doing so. I simply don't think that it's necessary.
Geoff, not trying to fan the flames of controversy
That's right - Cabinda is that little part of Angola cut off from the rest of the country by the Republic of Congo. I threw in the Angola reference because my wife's originally from there.
Considering the Yavi (Oiobá) influence in the Verdan culture and the meaning of the word that Gary founded for us, Cabinda is a very apropriated name for this texeiran outpost
In my original article, the colony was founded in AC 894 - and I think Renardie was already "french" by that time (I don't have the rulebooks handy at the moment). The Adakaners article moves the date of founding for Cap Saint-Renard forward in time, to the early 900s AC, as a reflection of discussions years ago as to when the various Savage Baronies might be in a position to range farther afield.
Considering both ideas, that Renardy culture derivates from Glantri or the Savage Baronies, I guess this cultural transformation should take place a few years late (Clébard left Glantri in 896 and probably became king of Renardy in 909; Considering Baronía de Sandoval idea, the narvaezans arrived in 903 and founded this barony where now is Marmandie; Clébard arrived in Renardy in 906 and 908 he managed to defeat the ispans, becoming baron of Marmandie, not shunning ispan culture, but mingling it with his averoigne roots; In 909, he became king of Renardy and, with his wife Ralon, promoted some inovations, codifying the laws, instaling a feudal system and replacing the old lupin culture with the new Renardois one (and, thus, weakening the old aristocracy and becoming an absolutist monarch)). At least, that's what I think
I guess the new date fits well with this renardie cultural transformations, but it wouldn't be a problem even with the original date: That's just a matter of translating the original name, in the lupin language, to the renardois language.
So, to make a long answer short, Cap Saint-Renard was intended to be the original name. I tend to use "Saint" (as opposed to "Saimpt") because I believe - rightly or wrongly - that such a word, used in a fantasy gaming setting, does not necessarily imply a connection with real world religions.
And I agree with you. In my campaign, I always use the word "saint" rather than "saimpt". Here in Brazil, it is rather normal using the original names and establishing clear connections between fanstasy and real world religions. So, it actually sound awkward avoiding these connections here.
But i know the problems TSR had with this issue in the past... I guess the renardois lupins might use both words as synonymous (just like "São" and "Santo" in Portuguese).
Since the yavi Oiobá people was based on RW Iorubá/Oyó, we only have to add a bantu influence. And considering their seafarer/trader culture (much like nowadays Verdans), that's quite easy to explain. I guess this helps not just explaining Porto Cabinda name origin but verdan words that have bantu origin (like Cafundó) and enriches Tanaka history as well (I guess the local word for "Baron/Barón/Barão" probably might be Mafuka)
And the info about Renardy history is based on Giampaolo articles (I should give him the credits
). Did I said something wrong about it, Giampaolo? ;)