Also warning; this is long.
I am currently planning a Dark Sun campaign using some possibly non-canon, non-typically D&D touches. While I may go outside or against written material, I would prefer to do so as little as possible, to make as much of the old TSR books utilizable out of the box, and therefore I would appreciate comments, suggestions etc. from forum people here, as there likely are many among you who have read much more than I have of the material. I also appreciate references to books and other sources you believe may be of use.
I use the setting initially as per the first edition of it (pre-Prism Pentad), so that events in the adventures can occur; i.e. all the seven known sorcerer-kings are alive, Rajaat is imprisoned etc. For rules, I use D&D 3.5 and Complete books, including Psionics. I do not have access to the novels, and while I believe there may be details, characters, events etc. in them that could touch on my plot I will override these if necessary.
Also note that this setup will become rapidly epic and ill fits the concept of heroic PCs. This is intentional and fits the playing style of my group. There will likely be minimal combat, and plenty of that guaranteed-win combat against weaker opponents. That said, I appreciate ideas on how to make the experience as memorable as possible for my players.
The starting point for the main campaign will be the Black Flames adventure, run mostly out of the book. However, I would appreciate suggestions on some sort of pre-adventure to place before that, to familiarize the players (and myself) with settings and mechanics.
My idea is this: from the Wanderers Journal in the revised campaign setting, there are several dead Champions of Rajaat, including:
Sacha, the 1st Champion: The 1st Champion of Rajaat, Sacha of Arala was the
Curse of the Kobolds. He succeeded in his mission during the Cleansing Wars, eliminating
kobolds from the Athasian countryside. Sacha stood beside Rajaat when Borys
and the others betrayed the Warbringer, and the 1st Champion was subsequently
beheaded. Sacha’s bodiless head was kept alive, however. He served Kalak until Tyr’s
lord was assassinated. Then he served Tithian. Sacha was finally destroyed trying to
free his ancient master when Rikus of Tyr crushed his skull.
Myron, the 4th Champion: Myron of Yorum, the Troll Scorcher, displeased
Rajaat. The Troll Scorcher was killed by Hamanu, who then took this Champion’s
place at Rajaat’s side.
Sielba, the 7th Champion: Sielba, the Destroyer of Pterrans, became the sorcerer-
queen of Yaramuke after helping Borys imprison Rajaat. A few centuries later,
she tried to increase her personal power by opposing Urik. Hamanu and his army
destroyed Sielba and the city, and today both are barely a memory.
Wyan, the 12th Champion: Wyan of Bodach, Pixie Blight, remained loyal to
Rajaat even as the other Champions betrayed him. For his loyalty, Wyan was
beheaded. His bloated head survived until recently, when Sadira of Tyr cut Wyan’s
head in half with the enchanted sword, the Scourge of Rkard.
Now, as far as your story idea goes, the biggest problem I see is that, given that Sielba was destroyed by another Sorcerer-King, IMO the odds of Hamanu leaving behind anything that could possibly allow her to return in some way, shape or form is unlikely - although, again based on the game setting, both Dregoth and Kalid-Ma "survived" being destroyed by other S-K's in their own ways, so I guess it's feasible that Sielba could have done it as well. Although, I'd have to say that the odds of either Sorcha or Wyan being there and find-able by the PCs would be pretty low - these are two individuals who stood against the other S-K's, and if Hamanu had any inkling at all that Sielba had them I'm pretty sure he would have either taken them himself or else had them destroyed.
Given that, as long as you don't mind straying a good ways away from the established storyline of the game, I think your idea could work. My only major concern with what you said is that, if you really want to give the PCs the true feel of Dark Sun, then they have to worry about being eaten/drained/smushed/ground/poisoned by just about everything living they run across...if they're not pointing an arrow at every cactus they walk by, and blasting a cute little bug that happens to walk through their campsite with a fireball, odds are you haven't made the extreme danger of Athas noteworthy enough. You don't have to go for a lot of fighting, and the "easy fights" idea is fine, but to keep the DS feel the PCs pretty much should always be on their toes, as anything they stumble across, no matter how inocuous, could be deadly. Just be sure to throw in some really, really horrible fights now and then, the kind where it might be in their best interest to just turn tail and flee rather than battle it out, and you should be good to go.
From there, the players would have to slowly piece together their pasts, and in doing so, start slowly regaining their former psionic/magic abilities as they learn more about their histories.
the Champion making process makes them incapable of killing one another. .
But what about Dregoth? :D
I do see that the premises for this are convoluted, particularly that Hamanu should miss the presence of three "bottled" Champions as he defeated Sielba. Possibly, the magic she was working (such as the sense-distorting wall around the city) could have distracted him, and if Hamanu was wounded he might not have stayed around afterwards as long as he was convinced she was dead (such as by sensing her soul departing into the receptacle and interpreting this as it being dissolved). There is mention of quite a lot of valuable items (scrolls of black water, among other things) in the adventure, so presumably something prevented him from picking the place clean.
The use of the Black Flames part for this is mainly so I can explain that it happens for all four at nearly the same time (that Sielba somehow collected the others while preparing for the war), and to give them a reason to cooperate. Since their host bodies know each other and they go through the self-discovery together hopefully they will feel some attachment even after the full set of memories have resurfaced.
You make a good point as for the entire world-is-horribly-dangerous thing. Perhaps I should increase the time spent before these events happen, and make sure that the reawakening is slow, particularly with respect to what the players know... This would also allow me to drop more and more history onto the players so that they can relate to the memories later.
How much does your average Athasian know of the Cleansing Wars history? The average mage? The average Templar?
Also, thanks for this information. Where can I find information on the events on the cleansing wars and similar pre-history aside from the Revised Wanderer's Journal? The novels? Any other sources I should look at if I want to avoid straying from the setting by mistake (as opposed to by choice)?
But what about Dregoth? :D
Well, we're talking about a total alternate and radically different Athas. It could be that the SKs didn't necessarily want to destroy Dregoth but only to stop him from achieving the last stage of the metamorphosis. Perhaps in the final stages of last metamorphosis spell the Dread Lord was attacked by the remaining SKs causing the spell to go wrong which resulted in Dregoth inadvertently being turned into an undead being rather than becoming a fully metamorphosed dragon.
You make a good point as for the entire world-is-horribly-dangerous thing. Perhaps I should increase the time spent before these events happen, and make sure that the reawakening is slow, particularly with respect to what the players know... This would also allow me to drop more and more history onto the players so that they can relate to the memories later.
My DS game is extremely high-powered, we use hit locations for PCs and important NPCs ("elite" enemies, so to speak), each location having the character's full-total HP (so in play, with all the house rules that go along with hit locations, the PCs can easily take 3x the damage a normal character could in a combat), so I can throw a lot more & higher powered enemies at them, and on top of that I not only hand out XP upwards of 100-per-char-level-per-session for "bonus" stuff but also give XP for enemies equal to their CR x 100...so my characters level, when you average it out, roughly every-other game, and in a couple cases pushed 3 levels in 2 sessions. Still, between playing every-other week, called-off games due to holidays and such, etc. they just now reached Epic levels after I think 2 years of playing. So all in all, I think that you can pace it just fine no matter how over- (or under-) powered you wish to make the game, how much perceived time and events you want to occur between major "jumps" in the plot, etc.
How much does your average Athasian know of the Cleansing Wars history? The average mage? The average Templar?
Nothing, probably nothing, and next to nothing if not nothing. The S-K's have purposely kept the whole affair "under wraps" - one of the likely reasons for outlawing writing - as it undermines their current self-proclaimed divinity. One of my players can get 40+'s on his Knowledge (ancient history) rolls and about the best info I've ever given him was "yes, you know that several thousand years ago there was a huge war that ravaged Athas, and that after that the surviving city-states walled themselves up and have been fending off destruction, under the leadership of their sorcerer-monarchs, since then."
Also, thanks for this information. Where can I find information on the events on the cleansing wars and similar pre-history aside from the Revised Wanderer's Journal? The novels? Any other sources I should look at if I want to avoid straying from the setting by mistake (as opposed to by choice)?
Revised Wanderer's Journal gives you an update of events from the Prism Pentad, and the short module "Beyond the Prism Pentad" summarizes the entire book series. I really like the PP, myself, both as background material as well as novels, so I'd suggest you get those. As has been discussed many a time, Rise and Fall of a Dragon King by Lynn Abbey is a good book, but it sorta slaughters canon history...but still, after I finally broke down and got it, I have to say that some of the ideas and such portrayed in it did spark new thoughts and ways of looking at Dark Sun.
Nothing, probably nothing, and next to nothing if not nothing. The S-K's have purposely kept the whole affair "under wraps" - one of the likely reasons for outlawing writing - as it undermines their current self-proclaimed divinity. One of my players can get 40+'s on his Knowledge (ancient history) rolls and about the best info I've ever given him was "yes, you know that several thousand years ago there was a huge war that ravaged Athas, and that after that the surviving city-states walled themselves up and have been fending off destruction, under the leadership of their sorcerer-monarchs, since then."
That makes sense. What about myths, though? Are there fairy-tales with themes and names resembling Cleansing War characters or events, or stories of how one vicious type of monster or other almost destroyed one or more peoples? Things like the Pristine Tower appearing in otherwise completely fictious stories, some "Raja" used to frighten children...
Revised Wanderer's Journal gives you an update of events from the Prism Pentad, and the short module "Beyond the Prism Pentad" summarizes the entire book series. I really like the PP, myself, both as background material as well as novels, so I'd suggest you get those. As has been discussed many a time, Rise and Fall of a Dragon King by Lynn Abbey is a good book, but it sorta slaughters canon history...but still, after I finally broke down and got it, I have to say that some of the ideas and such portrayed in it did spark new thoughts and ways of looking at Dark Sun.
Right. Thank you.
That makes sense. What about myths, though? Are there fairy-tales with themes and names resembling Cleansing War characters or events, or stories of how one vicious type of monster or other almost destroyed one or more peoples? Things like the Pristine Tower appearing in otherwise completely fictious stories, some "Raja" used to frighten children...
From what you get from the Prism Pentad, nope - other than "secret societies" or the like, the S-K's pretty much completely stomped out every piece of knowledge they could relating to the Cleansing Wars. In my game there are still references to it in the libraries of the various monarchs, but otherwise nobody knows nuttin'. For instance, in the first book of the PP they go to UnderTyr, which is composed of huge pylons holding up the city, and except for Ktandeo, an old wise guy from the Veiled Alliance, no one had any clue that Tyr used to be in a swamp. So, again - certain groups like the Veiled Alliance know, since they existed back then (or were created because of the Cleansing Wars, depending on how you look at it), the Order probably knows, the wandering Pyreen, and perhaps others...but in the city-states, unless the S-K has somehow worked it into the cities' mythos, then the people would have no clue.
So I guess, really, you can work it in however you want.
Yay for blabbering.From what you get from the Prism Pentad, nope - other than "secret societies" or the like, the S-K's pretty much completely stomped out every piece of knowledge they could relating to the Cleansing Wars. In my game there are still references to it in the libraries of the various monarchs, but otherwise nobody knows nuttin'. For instance, in the first book of the PP they go to UnderTyr, which is composed of huge pylons holding up the city, and except for Ktandeo, an old wise guy from the Veiled Alliance, no one had any clue that Tyr used to be in a swamp. So, again - certain groups like the Veiled Alliance know, since they existed back then (or were created because of the Cleansing Wars, depending on how you look at it), the Order probably knows, the wandering Pyreen, and perhaps others...but in the city-states, unless the S-K has somehow worked it into the cities' mythos, then the people would have no clue.
So I guess, really, you can work it in however you want. Yay for blabbering.
Going by this, I should probably focus on having the players research things themselves out of curiosity, locating sources like these.
Would you say that a sorcerer-king could sense the presence of a nearby Champion? Could one sorcerer-king visit the city of another without being sensed, say?
How much does your average Athasian know of the Cleansing Wars history? The average mage? The average Templar?
Also, thanks for this information. Where can I find information on the events on the cleansing wars and similar pre-history aside from the Revised Wanderer's Journal? The novels? Any other sources I should look at if I want to avoid straying from the setting by mistake (as opposed to by choice)?
well, like others have said, your average person knows nothing. the only people i would add to the list would be druids, because of their connection to the SotL's but even they might only get limited knowledge.
You might want to scour the boards here for info on the cleansing wars themselves. also, i am planning on putting together something myself. i won't be able to work on it until i am finished with finals, but i want some kind of write up on how the wars were fought. of course we will all have different points of view, but the overall idea will be how each champion fought agianst their race, how each race fought back, and what the various human communities repsonded as well. i wish there was more out there on this, it seems like an intersting time to look at and detail. and of course, when i get to work on it, i will definately want the imput of the wonderful people here on the boards. this kind of thing has been talked about before, but never put out there in a supplement-type form.
Going by this, I should probably focus on having the players research things themselves out of curiosity, locating sources like these.
Would you say that a sorcerer-king could sense the presence of a nearby Champion? Could one sorcerer-king visit the city of another without being sensed, say?
There's nothing that I've read to indicate such. However, we're talking about epic-leveled individuals who have literally had millenia to prepare; odds are they have wards all over the place, contingent spells, etc. that would make them aware of another Champion's presence the moment they entered the city (or heck, anywhere near to them for that matter).
In Rise and Fall of a Dragon King, one of the nifty ideas in there is that Hamanu "takes a ride" on dozens of his citizens' minds at a time, as a way of gathering info as well as experiencing the trials and tribulations of a mortal. So, I imagine that every S-K has probably some similar "plan" in place, maybe not that specifically but they could have dominated a commoner here or there, placed some sort of divination/warding spell on them (along with a permanent 'non-detection' style spell to prevent it from being picked up by templars or a Veiled Alliance member, etc.), then erased their memories of the occasion and replaced it with something more sensical. So, these PC-Champions enter the city, they go to the Elven Quarter to buy some goods, and a lowly peasant suddenly "pings" the S-K with a missive: "DivinationGoon #43292 has detected a disturbance, please scry for further details."
All sorts of ways to play that angle, but in the end, it's totally feasible - and realistic - to state that "anything a S-K wants to know, or should know, they probably can and *do* know." Nearly every Champion death post-rebellion has been against a Champion that was either in the middle of metamorphosis or else was the result of multiple S-K's banding together and attacking by surprise...basically, what DS history has shown is that the only way to catch an S-K off-guard is when they're busy doing something really thought-intensive or else by gathering up a bunch of other, equally-powerful individuals and beat them down with sheer overwhelming force (...and even then, you've got Hamanu with his anti-Champion artifact the Scorcher involved in one or two of those deaths)
In Rise and Fall of a Dragon King, one of the nifty ideas in there is that Hamanu "takes a ride" on dozens of his citizens' minds at a time, as a way of gathering info as well as experiencing the trials and tribulations of a mortal.
Taken from XlorepDarkHelm's old Champion of Rajaat template:
• Possess Mind (Su): The Champion can infuse some of his energy into a member of any of the races on Athas, making the creature into an extension of himself. The Champion can choose to "seed" any mortal in any location that he can sense as a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Unwilling mortals can attempt Will saves (DC 10 + the Champion's Charisma Modifier + 1 [+ the stage of dragon or avangion metamorphosis that the Champion is currently going through]). Spells that prevent possession block this ability if the mortal is unwilling. Likewise, spells that end possession drive out the Champion if the mortal is unwilling.
After the Champion "seeds" a mortal mind, he can choose to possess that mind as a free action at will. The possessed mortal effectively becomes part of the Champion. The Champion can draw on all the possessed mortal's memories, and the Champion senses what the mortal senses. The Champion can seed a number of mortals equal to his Intelligence modifier + the current stage the Champion is going through in either the dragon or avangion metamorphosis (i.e.: A Stage-1 Dragon with an Intelligence of 20 can seed up to 6 different mortal minds). The Champion can remote sense any mortal he has seeded, and they do not count against his number of remote sensing locations as outlined above.
While the Champion is in possession, the mortal's abilities are unchanged, except as noted below:
o Hit Points: Same as mortal +1 (plus 1 for each stage of the dragon or avangion metamorphosis the Champion is going through) per HD of the mortal.
o Armor Class: Same as mortal plus the mortal gains the Champion bonus to Armor Class that the posessing Champion has.
o Abilities: Strength, Dexterity and Constitution are unchanged. Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma becomes 5 points lower than the Champion 's (or remain as the mortal's scores if they are higher).
o Saves: Fortitude and Reflex same as the mortal; Will adjusted if necessary for the mortal's new Wisdom score.
o Skills: The mortal can use its own skills and the Champion's skills. If the mortal and the Champion have the same skill, use the skill of whichever has more ranks in the skill. Use the mortal's effective ability scores to determine skill modifiers.
Not that it makes my idea any less outlandish, but an interesting read nonetheless...