The Mystaran Solar System
By Håvard
The Sun
RW Equivalent: The Sun
Satelites: None
Inhabitants: Fire Elemental Ruler. Fire elemental creatures.
Notes: The Mystaran Sun is a gateway to the Elemental Plane of Fire
1st Planet
RW Equivalent: Mercury
Satelites: None
Inhabitants: Fire elemental races, having escaped the slavery of the Sun
2nd Planet
RW Equivalent: Venus
Satelites: None
Inhabitants: Dinosaurs and Lizardmen
Notes: Will soon be settled by Heldannic Knights
3rd Planet:Mystara
RW Equivalent: Earth
Satelites: 2: Matera (Locations of Pandius, the Immortal City) and Patera (Invisible. Inhabitants: Rakasta, Pachydermions)
Inhabitants: Humans, Demihumans, Humanoids and many others.
Notes: Planet and both moons are Hollow, containing self-sustained civilizations.
4th Planet
RW Equivalent: Mars
Satelites: 2
Inhabitants: Insect Men, Humans (Nithian descended)
Notes: Nithian Ruins. Will soon be colonized by Thyatians and Alphatians (See “Spillworld” from DotE)
5th Planet: Damocles
RW Equivalent: Asteroid Belt
Satelites: None
Inhabitants: Pyrithians (Similar to Emerondians).
Notes: Home of an Advanced Race. Blackmoor Ruins can be found here.
6th Planet: Old Alphatia
RW Equivalent: Jupiter
Inhabitants: Old Alphatians
Satelites: 63
Notes: The “satelites” are actually contained within the breathable atmosphere of the gas giant.
7th Planet
RW Equivalent: Saturn
Satelites: 47
Inhabitants: Air Elementals. Flying Races, Faenare
Notes: The “satelites” are actually contained within the breathable atmosphere of the gas giant.
8th Planet
RW Equivalent: Uranus
Satelites: 27
Inhabitants: Dwarves, Earth Elementals, Giff
Notes: Contains many gates to the Elemental Plane of Earth.
9th Planet
RW Equivalent: Neptune.
Satelites: 13 (Floating Continents)
Inhabitants: Sea Creatures. Water Elementals
Notes: Waterwold. Contains many gates to the Elemental Plane of Water.
10th Planet
RW Equivalent: Pluto
Satelites: None
Inhabitants: Frost World. Ice Demons
11th Planet: Charon
RW Equivalent: N/A
Inhabitants: Demons, Devils
Satelites: None
Notes: Contains gates to the Entropic Planes
Other Worlds
Alpha Centauri: Nearest Civilization
Epsilon Eridani: Nearest Magical Civilization
Core Worlds: Space Federation, Planar Spiders, Adapters, Mujina, Oards
Aelos: Another Plane, or Crystal Sphere?
Old Blacmoor: Could be another Planet, I suggest placing it within the Hollow World.
LaTerre: Alternate Prime Plane
Comments?
Comments?
Uhm, I don't think Dwarves could survive on Uranus or any of its satellites -- unless using some special equipment.
10th Planet
RW Equivalent: Pluto
Satelites: None
Inhabitants: Frost World. Ice Demons
11th Planet: Charon
RW Equivalent: N/A
Inhabitants: Demons, Devils
Satelites: None
Notes: Contains gates to the Entropic Planes
Comments?
Personally I'd put all the devils/demons on Pluto, and make Charon inhabited almost solely by undead. Give it a gate to Limbo, as well as gates to Pyts and other Entropic planes
Uhm, I don't think Dwarves could survive on Uranus or any of its satellites -- unless using some special equipment.
For MGF* purposes all worlds are assumed to have breathable atmospheres and temperatures within survival range of humans and demihumans. Obviously the sun is too far away to provide enough heat for the outer planets. I am open to ideas for how to get around this. Some possibilities are geothermal heating, or perhaps some world shield preserving solar heat better. A sort of magical Green House Effect. Something similar would exist on Mercury to keep the temperature down.
Althesame, the outer planets are considerably colder than Mystara and Mercury is uncomfortably warm.
*Maximum Game Fun
Personally I'd put all the devils/demons on Pluto, and make Charon inhabited almost solely by undead. Give it a gate to Limbo, as well as gates to Pyts and other Entropic planes
Good ideas. I think I will implement them ASAP
Håvard
Have the other planets names already? Pehaps Asterius (Mercury), Valerias (Venus), Vanya (Mars), Khoronus (Saturn), Protius (Neptune) and Thanatos (Pluto)?
As for the Old Alphatians, they are supposed to come from another plane or dimension. They needed to travel for centuries before finding Mystara.
Another Prime, like Laterre, pehaps?
Another Prime, like Laterre, pehaps?
Alpha Centauri, possibly. I assumed the name of their world derived from it. (It's a dead world now, so there's no magical civilization there anymore, though there might be some savage non-magical survivors somewhere among the three stars that comprise the system).
I understand that Wrath of the Immortals put them on another plane instead, but I always preferred the older way.
Dawn of the Emperors indicates that the nearby planets in Alphatia's system were colonized or conquered, then the colonies and conquests were left to fend for themselves over the next five centuries. It's not explained why the Alphatians didn't go to one of these places when their own world was destroyed - perhaps they weren't as hospitable as Mystara. Book Three suggests that Air with a capital A wasn't "natural" to most other nearby worlds [page 5]. This might not refer literally to atmosphere, but instead to elemental magic or connections to the Elemental Plane of Air. Or it's possible the colony worlds were destroyed when Alphatia was.
Although Alpha Centauri isn't literally "across the galaxy" from Mystara, it makes sense the Alphatians would go to the closest suitable world; if there wasn't one in their own system, they hopefully shouldn't have to travel too far across the galaxy to find one (although the DM's Guide to the Immortals claims that only .1% of all stars in the galaxy have earthlike planets, that's still a lot of worlds to choose from).
The DM's Guide to Immortals says that Alpha Centauri is the closest star to the Known World and that it's a double star system, but it doesn't say whether or not it's currently inhabited.
Anyway, I say Alpha Centauri = Alphatia, both because of the similarity in names and because Alpha Centauri is a cool-looking star system. I don't know if that was the original intention or not.
According to M1, Old Alphatia is/was a planet, and alphatians filled their solar system with air--the PCs travel to the planet via a vortex that Vanya creates. There is still life--even magic-using life there--on small planet-chunks, there's even a magocracy on one of the chunks.
Immortals Rules has nothing.
WotI: Codex states that Old Alphatia is a PLANE of Energy within the Multiverse DIMENSION, and that the entire Plane is air-filled. It also states that the Alphatia plane consited is hundreds of planets orbiting dozens of suns, and in the center is a brilliant mass...
As a comprimise, I'd think that the best solution is that the air does not COMPLETELY fill the void, but makes pockets of air-spheres around each planet(-oid)... And the adventure module only focused on the single planet--possibly the center brightness?
I also good a good sense of the difference between planes and dimensions, and have the perfect idea of how to "fix" the different cosmologies without editing any of them and still have each campaign's cosmology connected with one another. Will have to post it at a later time, I need to write ti all down and make sure it makes sense to people not inside my head...
Roger
Although Alpha Centauri isn't literally "across the galaxy" from Mystara, it makes sense the Alphatians would go to the closest suitable world; if there wasn't one in their own system, they hopefully shouldn't have to travel too far across the galaxy to find one (although the DM's Guide to the Immortals claims that only .1% of all stars in the galaxy have earthlike planets, that's still a lot of worlds to choose from).
Note that, according to Bruce Heard's Mystaraspace rules, the further one is from celestial bodies, the faster one's speed in the Void- so as long as they stayed away from large planets, etc., the travelling Alphatians might have made really good time, despite the distance to Mystara.
(Kind of a moot point, though, since there is evidently a planar gate in the Alphatian home dimension that they seemingly used- it is the one the PCs use in M1 to return home).
One possible solution, for those who like the take on Alphatia in WotI is to assume that either, Alphatia used to be a separate Plane, one with close ties to both Energy (magic) and air (the realm of Thought), and that the cataclysm drove it into the Prime Material Plane (which would certainly have contributed to the planet's destruction), or else that it used to exist on the Prime and was shunted into another plane post-Air/Fire war.
As a comprimise, I'd think that the best solution is that the air does not COMPLETELY fill the void, but makes pockets of air-spheres around each planet(-oid).
Actually, I think it makes perfect sense for air to fill the whole thing. That way Air magic becomes the magic of space travel and exploration, and the conflict between the Most Righteous College of Aerial Splendor and the Universal Truth of Fiery Domination becomes originally a conflict between those who traveled the many worlds and those who remained on their homeworld. The Followers of Flame thus became more provincial and xenophobic, huddling near the warm hearth of their system's sun, fearful of the new ways the Followers of Air introduced. Air represents danger and the unknown, alien cultures and alien threats.
Of course, air magic would be just as important - or even more so - if space was a vacuum. But then fire would be just as important for propulsion and to keep out the chill of the interstellar void, forcing Air and Fire mages to work together. With the bubble, the Followers of Air could set off on their own, using sails to capture the power of the wind. This would encourage more of a cultural split.
And it was the Followers of Air who charted the way to Mystara, while the Followers of Flame had to rely on the Immortals and planar travel to get there.
I'm sure the rivalry between the djinn and efreet (and other elemental races) had something to do with it, too.
Book 3 of Dawn of the Emperors also says that the Followers of Air surrounded their star system with a bubble of air, by the way [page 4].
The maps of the "Dimensional Guide to the Star Kingdoms" clearly depict the spherical bubble of air as being merely 2,600 miles in diameter, as compared to the diameter of the Earth at 7,900 miles... it is significantly smaller than the diameter of Mercury (3,032 miles). And this is the air bubble; there are four major bodies of earth (the Star Kingdoms of Belthar, Gammar, Delthar, and the city of the Guild of Merchants) plus several smaller islets, and thousands of asteroids, and metorites of the impassable Wandering Rocks.
In M1, it merely mentions that the Followers of Air "... once opened a gate to the fill this space with air. It is now enclosed in a huge bubble of breathable air," a clear reference to the space described in the module.
And yet, later in the DotE, it was mentioned that the Alphatians had filled their entire solar system with a bubble of air!
Note that there is no sun, even of microscopic size, in the bubble of air as described in M1. Preumably, the Alphatian sun is in a "standard" location, as the sphere of air is said to be "in the space between planets," which could either be a reference to the small islets and planetoids within the air sphere, or perhaps to other planets in the wider solar system.
The upshot of it is, I myself never adopted the later addition of the Followers of Air filling the entire solar system with air. For one thing, under the somewhat more "realistic" magical physics of Mystara versus Spelljammer, this would have superheated the air once contact was made with the Alphatian sun... and there would never have been a chance to have arguments over which was more powerful, air or fire, as nuclear fires would have won fairly quickly...
From the elements included in M1, I concluded that the Followers of Air had originally extended the atmosphere of their home world to include the moons of Old Alphatia; that would have been impressive enough, and allowed flying ships to easily fly between the home world and the moons. Other planets of the solar system were colonized by far-flying deep-space ships or through magical gates.
When the final war broke out and the Followers of Air destroyed Old Alphatia -- while fleeing the victorious Followers of Flame according to M1 (!!!) a fact which was reversed entirely in the (highly propagandized?) historical entries of DotE -- the Followers of Air cast their great and terrible magic to destroy the planet.
IMC, this spell, which warped the original great spell that expanded the atmosphere, eventually tore apart the planet. There were no survivors on the main planet itself; there could not be, save perhaps for wizards of the utmost power. There were, however, survivors on the moons of Old Alphatia, moons which, save for one, were not depicted in M1. After the terrible cataclysm, most of the planetary material and the moons were cast about in Old Alphatia's old orbit, which became a "standard" asteroid belt, as our here in the Solar System. However, enough of the magic of the original spell remained that a small portion -- the air sphere of M1 -- remained in the location where the planet once stood in its orbit. The remaining magic of the air spell stabilized under the influence of a powerful elemental water node (now found at the center of the sphere, with the remnants of Old Alphatia's oceans, in the Great Sea Spiral). Within this air sphere there were several small planetoids and asteroids, plus a plane of grinding, crashing asteroids and meteoroids. The planetoids -- one of which, Gammar, was originally the smallest moon of Old Alphatia -- were re-settled over the two millennia by survivors from the other moons and from Alphatian colonies elsewhere in the system.
This solar system, by the way, IMC is found far across the galaxy; the Alphatians used massive magical gateways to flee to Mystara. Their arrival is known as Landfall as the Followers of Air fled through the magical gateways on skyships... whose magic was not, for the most part, powerful enough on Mystara to remain in the air... ergo, landfall, quite literally...
Obviously I knowingly departed somewhat from canon with this particular element of placing Old Alphatia as the 6th Planet of Mystara's Solar System. Some points to consider when deciding whether to use or discard that part of my model:
1) As shown in the discussion above, canon sources are contradictory and for the most part rather vague on the exact location of Old Alphatia. The exception being WotI, which in most cases would take presedence being the most recently published product. Ofcourse IMHO WotI's handling of the Dimensions (Old alphatia and Myth in particular) is rather poor.
2) The negative consequences of moving Alphatia closer are few if any. As Mystaros demonstrated M1 shows that Alphatia's solar system was in fact not entirely filled with air. This fits very well with my presentation of the planet. 3 Planets away is still a pretty long distance making Gates the best way to travel between OA and Mystara.
3) Having OA a part of Mystara's Solar system does make that Solar system much more interesting for campaigns involving Voidships or Spelljamming. Ofcourse, some might prefer having a separate Solar system or Crystal sphere to develop on their own. OTOH, there is not that much material to draw from in the existing sources. Just about enough to develop a planet.
In the end, it will be the DM's choice, but especially for a SpellJammer campaign, I think it would make sense to have them both in the same place.
Håvard
Just makes me remember one spelljammer campaign that I DMed, using Alpha Centaury (but I didn't tell to the players that it was Alpha Centauri ;) )
But Alpha Centauri B orbits around Alpha Centauri A? I always thought that both orbitated around one another. But I might be mistaken, of course
It could also be interesting following his theory that the Flaems had to find their way to the Prime traveling through the planes in an attempt at purging them from the taint of Alphas IV (remember they got Razud's curse) while the Followers of Air survivors either managed to travel through space using their skyships and eventually crashlanded on Mystara OR were magically displaced by the explosion and their flying fleet was shot into Mystaraspace (hyperspace jump?), so once there they could not find their way home and started looking for a new home. Some of them may have even left the main migration fleet and decided to settle in other planets of the system (I particularly speculate some of them live in Neptune [hydromancers], Jupiter [followers of air] and Asterius/Damocles [geomancers] until its destruction), while the majority of Alphatians chose Mystara as their new homeland.
Also very interesting the fact that at least three of us actually USED a system as far as ALPHA CENTAURY in their adventures! I did the same for my last Master level adventure, where the party had to trail back through the stars a mysterious stranger who had flown away stealing the mage's flying ship and headed for Alpha Centauri! :D
Ofcourse, having Old Alphatia on Alpha Centauri contradicts canon just as much as my variant since the Old Immortals set states that though Alpha Centauri does have a civilization, Epsilon Eridani is the closest solar system to have a civilization that has developed magic.
Håvard
It's not explained why the Alphatians didn't go to one of these places when their own world was destroyed - perhaps they weren't as hospitable as Mystara. Book Three suggests that Air with a capital A wasn't "natural" to most other nearby worlds [page 5]. This might not refer literally to atmosphere, but instead to elemental magic or connections to the Elemental Plane of Air. Or it's possible the colony worlds were destroyed when Alphatia was.
I know very little about Mystara, and nothing about Alphatia (I came over here from the Spelljammer board). What caused the destruction of Alphatia? If, say, their sun went nova, that would explain why they couldn't just migrate to a neighboring planet.
Wyvern
I post my "Mystaraspace", used for my SpellJammer campaigns, starting (of course) from Mystara.
In SpellJamming terms, Alphatia and Serraine are "aware" nations. Other KW countries are just "groundling".
Ochalea is the exception: being a Thyatian colony Ochalea does not qualify as "nation", but they have some Dragonship.
Primary (Sun): Ixion, Fire Spherical body
Nobody lives here, but there are some gates to Elemental Plane of Fire.
Valerias: Earth Spherical body, class E
Only some Sollux stronghold here and planar travelers (not spelljammers).
Mystara: Earth (Hollow) Spherical body, class E
We know it very well!
Vanya/Rathanos: Earth Spherical body, class E
Thyatians astronomers call it Vanya, becouse in winter it is cold and gray; Ylari astronomers call it Rathanos, becouse in summer it is red and burning like the Lord of Flames.
It has an helliptical orbit, so it is very far from Ixion during fall and it is icy. Ice melts in summer and soil is aflame becouse it is somuch near to Ixion, the primary.
Inhabited by salamanders: fire/frost have alternate letargic cycle.
Asterius: Earth Flat body, class E
This world was colonized during technological Blackmoor era: spaceships build here cities and dominions. Now, losing the home-country, the Blackmoorian descendants are in a middle-age-like era. We have here descendants of Blackmoorians, Skandaharians, Elves and Emerondans, building many countries in the "top" side of the flatworld. The "underworld" is inhabited by undeads, killed by radiations and eavy pollution.
Blakmoorians ruins are to be found here and there.
Tarastia: Air Sphericalbody, class G
Better known to hits inhabitants as "Eloysia", refer to "Five coins for a kingdom" master adventure.
Khoronus: Air Spherical body, class G (rings)
Only poisonous gas pollute the main planet air. Breathing it means sure death.
Rings are populated, and I placed the famous Rock of Bral here, with 2 dwarvish minerary bases in strong competition; 1 arcane trading post; some inn/asteroids; 1 neogi stronghold.
Ordana: Air Spherical body, class E
This is Old Alphatia: Delthar, Belthar, Gammar and the like. Kabarkhand is the main port of call.
Protius: Water Spherical body, class D
I have not developed it. Becouse it has no continents, no island... only a great ocean. Maybe something like a Kevin Kostner's Waterworld, with no technology of course. Humans would not be natives: they falled here via spelljamming and adapted living in boats.
Natives are underwater races, but not surfacing often, so nobody knows about them.
Water is salty, not drinkable.
I know very little about Mystara, and nothing about Alphatia (I came over here from the Spelljammer board). What caused the destruction of Alphatia? If, say, their sun went nova, that would explain why they couldn't just migrate to a neighboring planet.
According to Dawn of the Emperors, the Followers of the Air cast a spell that tore their planet apart with wind.
If you assume the solar system was filled with air and clouds, this might have been enough to create a storm that went on to destroy or at least badly mess up neighboring worlds.
If you assume the air pocket didn't cover much more than the one planet, I don't see how it could have affected anything else.
If they destroyed the sun with wind, that would have proven once and for all that air magic was more powerful than fire magic. That would have appealed to the Followers of the Air, assuming they were capable of such a gargantuan feat.
Ofcourse, having Old Alphatia on Alpha Centauri contradicts canon just as much as my variant since the Old Immortals set states that though Alpha Centauri does have a civilization, Epsilon Eridani is the closest solar system to have a civilization that has developed magic.
It actually only says that Epsilon Eridani is the closest civilization "able to use magic." It's possible that closer civilizations developed magic some time in the past but have since lost that knowledge.
My idea is still countercanonical, of course, since M1 puts magic-users in the ruins of the world.
It's tempting to revise M1 entirely and turn Delthar, Belthar, Gammar and so on into entire worlds, so every world has been shattered, turned to asteroids and fire bodies (fragments of the sun), and the air pocket is as big as the entire system.
Another idea might be to play on the similarity of names between Epsilon Eridani and Empress Eriadna, though I still prefer Alpha Centauri/Alphatia.
My idea is still countercanonical, of course, since M1 puts magic-users in the ruins of the world.
Unless the ruins of the world were sucked into an outer plane, of course.
This is one of my theories for adapting some of the elements from Spelljammer into the Mystara cosmology. A central point here is to adapt ideas from Spelljammer to Mystara, not the other way around.
As in the Spelljammer Universe, solar systems are surrounded by Crystal Spheres. However, these Spheres are invisible and usually intangible. Passing through this unseen barrier normally wont even be noticed by the crew, being no obstacle to a vessel on its way into normal space.
Certain parts of the Crystal Sphere, however, in areas where the planets cast their "shadows" on the sphere, dark spots form. They are hard to see upn the blackness of space, but they are actually gateways leading to the Phlogiston, a sort of "Hyper-Space" allowing ships to pass from one world to another in much shorter time than they would travelling through normal space. Only a skilled Void Navigator is able to locate these Void Gates.
Vessels in the Void
There are many kinds of vessels used to travel across the Void. Spelljammer ships are extremely rare near Mystara Space, and they are expensive and limited in their use. Most Mystaran vessels rely on fly spell enchantments. These can travel much faster in the Void than they are able to within the atmosphere. Some Voidships have great sails that harness the Solar Winds. However, these are also limited in use since Solar winds make it hard to sail towards the sun. Other ships use enchanted sails that push the ship forward.
Elements from Spelljammer and Other Settings
Although I have decided to use elements from the spelljammer setting, I normally advice against incorporating other settings (especially the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Ebberon etc.) if you want to keep true to the Mystaran feel. The meta-setting of Spelljammer however, can easily be adapted to fit with the Mystara cosmology.
For MGF* purposes all worlds are assumed to have breathable atmospheres and temperatures within survival range of humans and demihumans. Obviously the sun is too far away to provide enough heat for the outer planets. I am open to ideas for how to get around this. Some possibilities are geothermal heating, or perhaps some world shield preserving solar heat better. A sort of magical Green House Effect.
Couldn't you just copy the planet Mystara and make your outer planets hollow worlds too. Then you could chuck a baby sun inside each of them, make the inner surface of the worlds tropical and have heat leak from the inner surface to the outer surface.
Something similar would exist on Mercury to keep the temperature down.
Or you could just chuck creatures from the plane of fire, like the Azer, onto the world.
Althesame, the outer planets are considerably colder than Mystara and Mercury is uncomfortably warm.
Many crystal spheres have planets that are different temperatures. You could put desert creatures on Mercury and ice loving creatures on the outer worlds.
Invisible Crystal Spheres
This is one of my theories for adapting some of the elements from Spelljammer into the Mystara cosmology. A central point here is to adapt ideas from Spelljammer to Mystara, not the other way around.
A "Mystaraspace" should respect both settings if it is going to be useful for a crossover campaign. If you look at Night Druid's treatment of The Crimson Sphere (a crystal sphere for Athas) you will see that it is possible to design a crystal sphere that respects the setting within.
The Astromundi Cluster already introduced the idea into Spelljammer that cosmolgy within a crystal sphere might not match the rest of the multiverse, so existing Spelljammer logic suggests that Mystaraspace would be a place where the cosmology of Mystara rules. You don't need to junk the rest of the multiverse to protect Mystara.
As in the Spelljammer Universe, solar systems are surrounded by Crystal Spheres. However, these Spheres are invisible and usually intangible. Passing through this unseen barrier normally wont even be noticed by the crew, being no obstacle to a vessel on its way into normal space.
Why is Mystaraspace's crystal sphere transparant? Why can you travel through it? Has the crystal sphere been pushed into a transitive plane? What has this done to the stars (which are objects that sit on the sphere wall)? Can the phlogiston be seen from Mystara?
Certain parts of the Crystal Sphere, however, in areas where the planets cast their "shadows" on the sphere, dark spots form. They are hard to see upn the blackness of space, but they are actually gateways leading to the Phlogiston, a sort of "Hyper-Space" allowing ships to pass from one world to another in much shorter time than they would travelling through normal space. Only a skilled Void Navigator is able to locate these Void Gates.
Ahem. The pholgiston belongs to Spelljammer - not Mystara. Inside Mystaraspace local laws (and game rules) should apply, but outside the sphere normal Spelljammer laws should apply. The phlogiston is not hyperspace it is a rainbow ocean with currents that move ships quickly.
If you really don't want to have the phlogiston beween Mystara and its neigbours then I suggest you make a super sized crystal sphere and dump several solar systems into that single sphere. (You could even retain your transparant crystal spheres by making them all spheres that are nested within the super-sphere.)
Vessels in the Void
There are many kinds of vessels used to travel across the Void. Spelljammer ships are extremely rare near Mystara Space, and they are expensive and limited in their use. Most Mystaran vessels rely on fly spell enchantments. These can travel much faster in the Void than they are able to within the atmosphere. Some Voidships have great sails that harness the Solar Winds. However, these are also limited in use since Solar winds make it hard to sail towards the sun. Other ships use enchanted sails that push the ship forward.
Have a look out for a fan Spelljammer crystal sphere called Nilespace. The guy who created this setting uses something called Nilejamming that involves sails. I believe it only works for system ships (ones that don't go into the phlogiston) because the force that powers them only exists within the crystal sphere.
Elements from Spelljammer and Other Settings
Although I have decided to use elements from the spelljammer setting, I normally advice against incorporating other settings (especially the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Ebberon etc.) if you want to keep true to the Mystaran feel. The meta-setting of Spelljammer however, can easily be adapted to fit with the Mystara cosmology.
Some DMs are cross-over fans may want to bring players in from those other settings and show them how good Mystara is. A total ban is not a good idea, because they just won't agree to follow your rules. It would be far better to deal with the problem in the way that Night Druid dealt with the problem in his The Crimson Sphere product.
Create a natural barrier between Mystaraspace and the rest of the multi-verse that hinders, rather than blocks, travel. Put Mystarspace far away from the Radiant Triangle (Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace). Give it unreliable phlogiston rivers. Make it hard to get into or out of the crystal sphere. Or put another natural barrier there that fits in with the setting better.
Couldn't you just copy the planet Mystara and make your outer planets hollow worlds too. Then you could chuck a baby sun inside each of them, make the inner surface of the worlds tropical and have heat leak from the inner surface to the outer surface.
Thats a good idea. I think it would be appropriate if most planets of the Mystara solar system are hollow, including many of the moons.
Or you could just chuck creatures from the plane of fire, like the Azer, onto the world.
Many crystal spheres have planets that are different temperatures. You could put desert creatures on Mercury and ice loving creatures on the outer worlds.
Yes. I have done something like this in my initial writeup, though I limited such extreme environments to the closest and furthest planets from the sun, leaving the others more habitable.
A "Mystaraspace" should respect both settings if it is going to be useful for a crossover campaign. If you look at Night Druid's treatment of The Crimson Sphere (a crystal sphere for Athas) you will see that it is possible to design a crystal sphere that respects the setting within.
The Astromundi Cluster already introduced the idea into Spelljammer that cosmolgy within a crystal sphere might not match the rest of the multiverse, so existing Spelljammer logic suggests that Mystaraspace would be a place where the cosmology of Mystara rules. You don't need to junk the rest of the multiverse to protect Mystara.
Well, this is just one of my theories. But that one was based on accepting everything written on Mystara cosmology and stealing bits and pieces from Spelljammer. But as you say they can easily be combined to avoid such extreme viewpoints.
Why is Mystaraspace's crystal sphere transparant? Why can you travel through it? Has the crystal sphere been pushed into a transitive plane? What has this done to the stars (which are objects that sit on the sphere wall)? Can the phlogiston be seen from Mystara?
Interesting questions...
Ahem. The pholgiston belongs to Spelljammer - not Mystara. Inside Mystaraspace local laws (and game rules) should apply, but outside the sphere normal Spelljammer laws should apply. The phlogiston is not hyperspace it is a rainbow ocean with currents that move ships quickly.
Yes, these were my revisions.
If you really don't want to have the phlogiston beween Mystara and its neigbours then I suggest you make a super sized crystal sphere and dump several solar systems into that single sphere. (You could even retain your transparant crystal spheres by making them all spheres that are nested within the super-sphere.)
I think someone else have used the super size crystal sphere theory, but I wanted some sort of hyper space thing in there to avoid the long distances of travelling.
Have a look out for a fan Spelljammer crystal sphere called Nilespace. The guy who created this setting uses something called Nilejamming that involves sails. I believe it only works for system ships (ones that don't go into the phlogiston) because the force that powers them only exists within the crystal sphere.
Thanks for the link. It looks interesting
Some DMs are cross-over fans may want to bring players in from those other settings and show them how good Mystara is. A total ban is not a good idea, because they just won't agree to follow your rules. It would be far better to deal with the problem in the way that Night Druid dealt with the problem in his The Crimson Sphere product.
Create a natural barrier between Mystaraspace and the rest of the multi-verse that hinders, rather than blocks, travel. Put Mystarspace far away from the Radiant Triangle (Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace). Give it unreliable phlogiston rivers. Make it hard to get into or out of the crystal sphere. Or put another natural barrier there that fits in with the setting better.
I can see that this theory is not for everyone. I like it because I feel that cross over campaigns often take some of the uniqueness away from all of the settings (which was one of the flaws of Spelljammer and to some extent Planescape IMO.) If I was to run a crossover campaign, I would probably just make Mystara a regular crystal sphere, based on the information in the first post of this thread, but ignore the rest.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions
Havard
I also just reasoned that the name was was evolved from Alpha into Athas. The culture was ravaged and destroyed, those who remained were the refuge that was not "worth" saving during the exodus. So a lot of things changed and evolved on their own.
The Alphatians said it was "destroyed", but that does not mean that it had to turn into rubble or something like that. Maybe for them, destroyed is the condition of magic. Athas is certainly "destroyed" when viewed from a Magic User's point of view.
Well, that is what i used. I had a campaign go there real brief, to find an ancient Alphatian artifact. Since the Alphatians would not go back to their destroyed home, they sent the PCs. The harsh world really emphasized to the PCs the danger of overuse of magic, and they, as a group, wanted to make sure that the descendants of the Alphatians did not do this to Mystara.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/5282440.stm
Håvard
This many not be cannon, but I always used the Dark Sun setting, Athas, as the remains of Alphatian home world. It fits, a planet ravaged by magic, magic not working the way it use to; wizards very very rare, so on and so on.
It doesn't fit officially, since Athas is a prime material world with its own (inaccessible) crystal sphere and so on, while Old Alphatia is in the outer planes (in the plane of Draesten) and very accessible (according its description in WOTI). Indeed, according to WOTI, all that remains of Old Alphatia is a nebula, where the planet used to be.
I also just reasoned that the name was was evolved from Alpha into Athas. The culture was ravaged and destroyed, those who remained were the refuge that was not "worth" saving during the exodus. So a lot of things changed and evolved on their own.
The world now known in history as "Old Alphatia" was, in its time, called "Alphatia", not "Alpha".
The Alphatians said it was "destroyed", but that does not mean that it had to turn into rubble or something like that. Maybe for them, destroyed is the condition of magic. Athas is certainly "destroyed" when viewed from a Magic User's point of view.
How so? Athas is ruled by sorceror kings, who are exceedinly powerful wizards, so that doesn't seem to support the idea that it's ruined from a wizard's point of view. Besides, this clearly conflicts with the canonical version of what remains of Old Alphatia, as described in M1 - Into the Maelstrom. But, of course, you can do whatever you want in your campaign. Just be aware that a lot of the stuff published and that other people will write will assume the official version of events.
Well, that is what i used. I had a campaign go there real brief, to find an ancient Alphatian artifact. Since the Alphatians would not go back to their destroyed home, they sent the PCs. The harsh world really emphasized to the PCs the danger of overuse of magic, and they, as a group, wanted to make sure that the descendants of the Alphatians did not do this to Mystara.
I hope you realise that Athas is generally considered a closed world. Usually it is impossible to reach it whether by spelljamming or by planer travel for the same reasons. There is a note on this in the 2e Planewalker's Handbook, which says, "portals leading here are rare in the extreme, and spells that allow interplanar travel fail more than haflt the time." (Planewalker's Handbook, p.32) There are good reasons for this. Wizards from Athas tend to be pretty fierce, and generally their power would have allowed them to spread across much of the multiverse, which is why Athas is generally treated as a restricted zone (no way in or out) by the general rules.
It doesn't fit officially, since Athas is a prime material world with its own (inaccessible) crystal sphere and so on, while Old Alphatia is in the outer planes (in the plane of Draesten) and very accessible (according its description in WOTI). Indeed, according to WOTI, all that remains of Old Alphatia is a nebula, where the planet used to be.
Ofcourse, according to M1 it is "somewhere in Mystara's galaxy" and there are still a whole load of asteroids floating around in the area, home to survivors of the Alphatian Cataclysm.
How so? Athas is ruled by sorceror kings, who are exceedinly powerful wizards, so that doesn't seem to support the idea that it's ruined from a wizard's point of view. Besides, this clearly conflicts with the canonical version of what remains of Old Alphatia, as described in M1 - Into the Maelstrom. But, of course, you can do whatever you want in your campaign. Just be aware that a lot of the stuff published and that other people will write will assume the official version of events.
I dont think he meant it to have any officiality, but if one wanted to combine the two settings, it might not be such a bad idea for a cross-over style campaign.
I hope you realise that Athas is generally considered a closed world. Usually it is impossible to reach it whether by spelljamming or by planer travel for the same reasons. There is a note on this in the 2e Planewalker's Handbook, which says, "portals leading here are rare in the extreme, and spells that allow interplanar travel fail more than haflt the time." (Planewalker's Handbook, p.32) There are good reasons for this. Wizards from Athas tend to be pretty fierce, and generally their power would have allowed them to spread across much of the multiverse, which is why Athas is generally treated as a restricted zone (no way in or out) by the general rules.
If a 1:1 level conversions to 2E or 3E for OD&D is used for characters, Mystarans wouldnt come out too bad in that comparison, so it might not be that unbalancing to throw in some Athas stuff...
Just a thought.
Håvard