Vale Tudo in athas - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Vale Tudo in athas

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
May 22, 2006 15:04:09 Alright, i know this might sound dumb, but i believe i read (i think in the gladiator's handbook or one of the monster compendiums) that they will throw in an unarmed mul into the ring with another and watch them bash it out. My question is - do you think that they would have fights in a bar, even miniature pit fights. Just shove them into a recess inside the in (most-likely a dugout where they brawl). But who would u have fight in it?

Reason asking - makin' up an NPC Mul from Ur-draxa (several hundred years back from current date of the expanded and revised boxed set). He's kinda like a muay thai fighter mixed in with brazilian jiujitsu...i'm sure you guys don't care, but i made him have a variant of a talid, which is rope and cloth over his arms (near the fist and) and it's all down his shin so when he busts somebody with a round kick he'll shove off some obsidian into their guts.

Using a tweaked out version of seker's system with my own little changes strewn throughout
#2
dirk00001
May 22, 2006 15:14:52 I've read/heard the "pit fight" idea for taverns/etc. at least once, so it sounds good to me. My suggestion would be to base the existence of those types of fights on the particular "cultural bias" of each village or city-state - Balic, being Greek-ish, is probably more likely to have larger arena fights than smaller pit fights (although the port district, being more "continental" might have a couple places like this), while a place like Tyr seems to be a good one for private/"underground" fight clubs, as it were. Dwarven towns such as the two Ledopolis' probably wouldn't have anything like that (not a dwarven thing), etc.

As for what/who to throw in - probably any patron who thinks they're a bad-a$$ and wants to make a few bucks could hop in and take on any challengers, while the spectators would bet on the outcome. Most places would probably frown on animal-vs-humanoid fights, since those could easily turn deadly, and by the same token wouldn't allow lethal weapons - people getting killed in one's establishment is a good way to draw the attention of the templars, which in turn is a great way to end up a slave in someone's stable.
#3
Pennarin
May 22, 2006 19:51:01 Jon had a PrC in an earlier version of Prestige Class Appendix I called the Pit Fighter. It had this to say about fights outside of the arena:

In hidden alleys and tavern cellars warriors meet to engage in underground bare-fist matches. Pit fighters are unarmed combat specialists who rely on brute force and excel in inflicting pain. Some pit fighters are would-be gladiators who could not afford the entry fees of the arenas or who failed to find a sponsor. Others are gladiators who were banned from the arenas for disobeying the rules of arena combat and causing unwanted deaths. Some are even slaves or captured savages forced to fight for unscrupulous slavers. The underground pit fights where no rules or restrictions apply draw crowds of criminals and bets are usually mandatory.

#4
ruhl-than_sage
May 22, 2006 22:37:29 One of the taverns in the ancient quarter of Urik in my game featured an illegal underground pit fighting ring. I would imagine that there are such things here and there all over athas. The would provide entertainment and gambling opportunities. It might be a good place for a prospective gladiator to learn the trade before he hits the big stage of the city arena and really puts his life on the line.
#5
Pennarin
May 23, 2006 0:16:10 In the movie Gladiator there is a small arena far away from Rome, and in the movie Conan there is a pit in the ground where Conan hones his skills. Not being the giant arenas of the cities I'd put both in the "pit" category.
#6
pringles
May 23, 2006 4:45:24 In my campaign, The PC whent to a inn in Tyr in the merchant quarter were there a fighthing pit with a circular moving floor with wood spike all-around.
#7
brun01
May 23, 2006 8:20:05
He's kinda like a muay thai fighter mixed in with brazilian jiujitsu...i'm sure you guys don't care, but i made him have a variant of a talid, which is rope and cloth over his arms (near the fist and) and it's all down his shin so when he busts somebody with a round kick he'll shove off some obsidian into their guts.

[kal]Brazilian Hack'em Master RUL!!![/kal]
#8
cornphlake
May 23, 2006 11:10:29 I know this is somewhat off topic, but not really.
#9
zombiegleemax
May 23, 2006 20:34:39 Personal opinion, Royce is gettin' old, and he was never really that good. If you want any of the old fights, he just sets his legs overthe people, gently as he watches them Flip out. One dude Tapped just because he was on the ground in UFC 1. He did bring ground fighting and submissions to America...BUT WHOOOO BUDDY...matt hughes is a strong as hell wrestler, he has gotten some knowledge in submission, and he's not too bad striking...I'd say he's gonna claim it. he's gonna pick him up, throw him down, and school him like the balding old fart he is...perfect example of what it will probably look like-> diego sanchez vs nick diaz. That wasn't a fight, it was Diaz flippin' around and holdin' his legs up there while Sanchez pounds on him. Diaz is one flexible freak though...but i think it's a bunch of bull that he's a blackbelt. The Gracies have been losin' credit in the grappling realms as of late. You wanna see a REAL submission specialist, go see Saulo Riebero in Toledo. 6 time world champ, he was taught by a gracie, but i know for sure that his purple belt (middle rank) could be Royce, a supposed Black Belt. Plus, he's the best at his game in his gym and all he trains with is pads, he's gonna get crushed when Hughes rocks him. Plus, the idea of Matt Hughes getting submitted by Royce is slim to none in my opinion. He submitted Joe Riggs who was a BJJ dude. Hughes might not be the most skilled submission fighter, but he's strong as all get out, letting him use that as a crutch for his lack of skill.
#10
brun01
May 24, 2006 10:46:44 Sorry to put the thread back on topic, but you know what I'd really like to see? Some Athasian tactical feats!

They could incorporate gladiatorial styles from the Complete Gladiator's...
#11
cornphlake
May 24, 2006 11:26:31 This has probably been beat to death, but what about feats for individual applications of unarmed combat? You know, grappling, striking, and submission feats. Not actual styles like jiu-jitsu, aikido and the like. Lemme think about this and I'll post something useful.
#12
zombiegleemax
May 24, 2006 15:10:48 I use a different system, and i hate monks.

In d20 modern you have Combat Martial arts (and it's counter parts) letting you do 1d4 of blunt damage lethal or non-lethal w/out generating an attack of opprotunity. The later feats function like improved critical and then lets you have a 3x crit

The other feat: Brawl - a more realistic feat, lets you do 1d6 damage (non-lethal) and you generate an attack of opprotunity. This opens up the doors to improved brawl (1d8 damage) and improved feint.

D20 modern does not have improved grapple or the other feats that the DnD world has, and i think that d20 modern has a few flaws in it's system.

Improved Grapple - start a grapple without provoking an attack of opprotunity - is a little unrealistic. In addition, they don't have a system for choking or joint locks (choking did not affect the middle ages, but saying that grappling was not practiced as well as unarmed combat would be foolish. The asians were not the only individuals that practiced these arts...and i'm sick of people saying that japan had the most developed system. Japan was the first to develop kick boxing, but a lot of their systems have become...an art, not martial...anyhow). To look at it as transferring this well to a system. Instead of giving you +4 on your grapple checks and letting you do something unrealistic, pair it up with improved feint (which should be able to be replaced w/ your BAB), you should be able to do some simple joint locks, and maneuvering. Basic positioning is handled fairly decently with the grapple checks, the theory that instead of moving yourself further, you can attack, again, good. Special maneuvers are taken out all together.

Suggested Feat - Grappling Expertise - +1 bab - +4 grapple and you gain the ability to Joint Lock: by how many points an opponent beats you on average for three consecutive rounds of maintaining a pin, (so i beat him by a 5, 5, a 10 and a 20, it affects him for 10 rounds) you affect one limb. You perform maximum damage each round (always lethal, and the normal is 1d4, so 4 damage per round) opponent is then subjected to affect:
Arms: -8 strength when using that arm for the remainder of the time.
Legs: your weight allowance drops by a factor of 2 (so -5 to your strength score). and your speed drops by 1/2. You are also denied your dexterity bonus.

Joint locks only work on creatures with rigid body structure. Snakes, squids, abberations, creatures without limbs are not affected

Choke mechanics...dunno

Striking feats - brawl and improved brawl are fine for me with the exception of the no attacks of opprotunity. Improved Feint shouldn't be a requirement of brawl, but you could use improved feint to generate an opprotunity to grapple without getting smacked with an attack of opprotunity (oh look, realistic)

I know dnd is nto about realism...but I NEED IT TO BE FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHAAHAHAHAH!

Brawl is like any striking art there is.

Flurry of blows - i don't know how to say this, but it would make sense to be trained in a way which you can fight with your elbows and such.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 22, 2006 15:04:09	Alright, i know this might sound dumb, but i believe i read (i think in the gladiator's handbook or one of the monster compendiums) that they will throw in an unarmed mul into the ring with another and watch them bash it out. My question is - do you think that they would have fights in a bar, even miniature pit fights. Just shove them into a recess inside the in (most-likely a dugout where they brawl). But who would u have fight in it? Reason asking - makin' up an NPC Mul from Ur-draxa (several hundred years back from current date of the expanded and revised boxed set). He's kinda like a muay thai fighter mixed in with brazilian jiujitsu...i'm sure you guys don't care, but i made him have a variant of a talid, which is rope and cloth over his arms (near the fist and) and it's all down his shin so when he busts somebody with a round kick he'll shove off some obsidian into their guts. Using a tweaked out version of seker's system with my own little changes strewn throughout
#2 dirk00001 May 22, 2006 15:14:52	I've read/heard the "pit fight" idea for taverns/etc. at least once, so it sounds good to me. My suggestion would be to base the existence of those types of fights on the particular "cultural bias" of each village or city-state - Balic, being Greek-ish, is probably more likely to have larger arena fights than smaller pit fights (although the port district, being more "continental" might have a couple places like this), while a place like Tyr seems to be a good one for private/"underground" fight clubs, as it were. Dwarven towns such as the two Ledopolis' probably wouldn't have anything like that (not a dwarven thing), etc. As for what/who to throw in - probably any patron who thinks they're a bad-a$$ and wants to make a few bucks could hop in and take on any challengers, while the spectators would bet on the outcome. Most places would probably frown on animal-vs-humanoid fights, since those could easily turn deadly, and by the same token wouldn't allow lethal weapons - people getting killed in one's establishment is a good way to draw the attention of the templars, which in turn is a great way to end up a slave in someone's stable.
#3 Pennarin May 22, 2006 19:51:01	Jon had a PrC in an earlier version of Prestige Class Appendix I called the Pit Fighter. It had this to say about fights outside of the arena: In hidden alleys and tavern cellars warriors meet to engage in underground bare-fist matches. Pit fighters are unarmed combat specialists who rely on brute force and excel in inflicting pain. Some pit fighters are would-be gladiators who could not afford the entry fees of the arenas or who failed to find a sponsor. Others are gladiators who were banned from the arenas for disobeying the rules of arena combat and causing unwanted deaths. Some are even slaves or captured savages forced to fight for unscrupulous slavers. The underground pit fights where no rules or restrictions apply draw crowds of criminals and bets are usually mandatory.
#4 ruhl-than_sage May 22, 2006 22:37:29	One of the taverns in the ancient quarter of Urik in my game featured an illegal underground pit fighting ring. I would imagine that there are such things here and there all over athas. The would provide entertainment and gambling opportunities. It might be a good place for a prospective gladiator to learn the trade before he hits the big stage of the city arena and really puts his life on the line.
#5 Pennarin May 23, 2006 0:16:10	In the movie Gladiator there is a small arena far away from Rome, and in the movie Conan there is a pit in the ground where Conan hones his skills. Not being the giant arenas of the cities I'd put both in the "pit" category.
#6 pringles May 23, 2006 4:45:24	In my campaign, The PC whent to a inn in Tyr in the merchant quarter were there a fighthing pit with a circular moving floor with wood spike all-around.
#7 brun01 May 23, 2006 8:20:05	He's kinda like a muay thai fighter mixed in with brazilian jiujitsu...i'm sure you guys don't care, but i made him have a variant of a talid, which is rope and cloth over his arms (near the fist and) and it's all down his shin so when he busts somebody with a round kick he'll shove off some obsidian into their guts. [kal]Brazilian Hack'em Master RUL!!![/kal]
#8 cornphlake May 23, 2006 11:10:29	I know this is somewhat off topic, but not really.
#9 zombiegleemax May 23, 2006 20:34:39	Personal opinion, Royce is gettin' old, and he was never really that good. If you want any of the old fights, he just sets his legs overthe people, gently as he watches them Flip out. One dude Tapped just because he was on the ground in UFC 1. He did bring ground fighting and submissions to America...BUT WHOOOO BUDDY...matt hughes is a strong as hell wrestler, he has gotten some knowledge in submission, and he's not too bad striking...I'd say he's gonna claim it. he's gonna pick him up, throw him down, and school him like the balding old fart he is...perfect example of what it will probably look like-> diego sanchez vs nick diaz. That wasn't a fight, it was Diaz flippin' around and holdin' his legs up there while Sanchez pounds on him. Diaz is one flexible freak though...but i think it's a bunch of bull that he's a blackbelt. The Gracies have been losin' credit in the grappling realms as of late. You wanna see a REAL submission specialist, go see Saulo Riebero in Toledo. 6 time world champ, he was taught by a gracie, but i know for sure that his purple belt (middle rank) could be Royce, a supposed Black Belt. Plus, he's the best at his game in his gym and all he trains with is pads, he's gonna get crushed when Hughes rocks him. Plus, the idea of Matt Hughes getting submitted by Royce is slim to none in my opinion. He submitted Joe Riggs who was a BJJ dude. Hughes might not be the most skilled submission fighter, but he's strong as all get out, letting him use that as a crutch for his lack of skill.
#10 brun01 May 24, 2006 10:46:44	Sorry to put the thread back on topic, but you know what I'd really like to see? Some Athasian tactical feats! They could incorporate gladiatorial styles from the Complete Gladiator's...
#11 cornphlake May 24, 2006 11:26:31	This has probably been beat to death, but what about feats for individual applications of unarmed combat? You know, grappling, striking, and submission feats. Not actual styles like jiu-jitsu, aikido and the like. Lemme think about this and I'll post something useful.
#12 zombiegleemax May 24, 2006 15:10:48	I use a different system, and i hate monks. In d20 modern you have Combat Martial arts (and it's counter parts) letting you do 1d4 of blunt damage lethal or non-lethal w/out generating an attack of opprotunity. The later feats function like improved critical and then lets you have a 3x crit The other feat: Brawl - a more realistic feat, lets you do 1d6 damage (non-lethal) and you generate an attack of opprotunity. This opens up the doors to improved brawl (1d8 damage) and improved feint. D20 modern does not have improved grapple or the other feats that the DnD world has, and i think that d20 modern has a few flaws in it's system. Improved Grapple - start a grapple without provoking an attack of opprotunity - is a little unrealistic. In addition, they don't have a system for choking or joint locks (choking did not affect the middle ages, but saying that grappling was not practiced as well as unarmed combat would be foolish. The asians were not the only individuals that practiced these arts...and i'm sick of people saying that japan had the most developed system. Japan was the first to develop kick boxing, but a lot of their systems have become...an art, not martial...anyhow). To look at it as transferring this well to a system. Instead of giving you +4 on your grapple checks and letting you do something unrealistic, pair it up with improved feint (which should be able to be replaced w/ your BAB), you should be able to do some simple joint locks, and maneuvering. Basic positioning is handled fairly decently with the grapple checks, the theory that instead of moving yourself further, you can attack, again, good. Special maneuvers are taken out all together. Suggested Feat - Grappling Expertise - +1 bab - +4 grapple and you gain the ability to Joint Lock: by how many points an opponent beats you on average for three consecutive rounds of maintaining a pin, (so i beat him by a 5, 5, a 10 and a 20, it affects him for 10 rounds) you affect one limb. You perform maximum damage each round (always lethal, and the normal is 1d4, so 4 damage per round) opponent is then subjected to affect: Arms: -8 strength when using that arm for the remainder of the time. Legs: your weight allowance drops by a factor of 2 (so -5 to your strength score). and your speed drops by 1/2. You are also denied your dexterity bonus. Joint locks only work on creatures with rigid body structure. Snakes, squids, abberations, creatures without limbs are not affected Choke mechanics...dunno Striking feats - brawl and improved brawl are fine for me with the exception of the no attacks of opprotunity. Improved Feint shouldn't be a requirement of brawl, but you could use improved feint to generate an opprotunity to grapple without getting smacked with an attack of opprotunity (oh look, realistic) I know dnd is nto about realism...but I NEED IT TO BE FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHAAHAHAHAH! Brawl is like any striking art there is. Flurry of blows - i don't know how to say this, but it would make sense to be trained in a way which you can fight with your elbows and such.