Wanted to get a chance for some feedback on this PrC before submitting it for the PrC II doc. This is a conversion of the old free wanderer kit in Elves of Athas. It was done by myself and the highly esteemed Methvezem.
Note - still working on the fluff text.
Free Wanderer
“quote goes here ??? :D ”.
- Daaki, free wanderer
Description. Live by its wits; survive by its skills, far from his tribe before he returns to them. For most young elves, there comes a time in their life when they are overcome with a desire to see the world for themselves, outside the influence of the tribe. Many elves, view this time of wanderlust as a learning experience, an opportunity to master those traits which distinguish him as an elf. These elves, known as free wanderers seek to,...
Classes and races. As the skills of a rogue come most naturally to the elves of Athas, most free wanderers... Most other classes - commonly found templars and druids - rare
NPC xx are.
Hit Die: d6.
Requirements
To qualify to become a free wanderer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Elf or half-elf
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Sleight of Hand 6 ranks, Survival 4 ranks.
Feats: Self Sufficient.
Special: Must be a member of an elven tribe.
Class Skills:
The free wanderer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier.
I would reduce the Seasoned Traveler ability to at least 1/2 class level or even take it out, Skill mastery (recieved the same level) is already really powerful and the class doesn't seem like it is supposed to be the master of wilderness survival to the point of having a +10 bonus to survival checks!! Honestly they are already going easily have max ranks in survival and an additional +2 bonus from the prerequisite Self-Sufficient. I really don't see why they warrant any additional bonus to survival, let alone a +1 per level.
You need to explain Sure-footed better. Not taking movement penalties for moving over obstacles and difficult terrain is too vague. It is important to specify if this applies to regular movement, overland movement, or both and what sorts of obstacles and difficult terrain it applies to. Are you saying that they aren't slowed canyons and swamps, field of spikes and steep flights of stairs?
1 attuned to the now 2
2 dashing attack 1d6
3 nimble defense 1, uncanny dodge
4 independent spirit 10
5 dashing attack 2d6
6 attuned to the now 4
7 nimble defense 2, spring attack
8 dashing attack 3d6
9 independent spirit 20, skill mastery
10 attuned to the now 6
or
1 Attuned to the Now (+2)
2 Independent spirit +5
3 Dashing attack (+1d6) , nimble defense (+1)
4 Uncanny dodge
5 Attuned to the Now (+4)
6 Independent spirit +10
7 Springing style
8 Dashing attack (+2d6) , nimble defense (+2)
9 Independent spirit +15
10 Attuned to the Now (+6), skill mastery
seems like skill mastery should be reworked with a better skill selection, as well as being fixed, ie not gaining more - this keeps to the examples in complete adventurer better
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level, an arena mage’s constant attentiveness allows him to retain his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If an arena mage already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (as the gladiator ability) instead.
I realize I'm being nit picky, but I thought I'd still point these out anyway
I realize I'm being nit picky, but I thought I'd still point these out anyway
Sorry, used the PrC template from the arena mage post - still not quite sure how to format these things on the boards. Obviously missed a copy-paste error....Fixing the issue........now
:D It is kind of funny actually, the coincidence that is, not the PrCs.
After reading this class, I have to ask this- why is it limited to the elf's and half-elfs? This would be a great "any class" PrC IMO- though very well situated for the rogue or ranger classes. This could be a sweet kind of wind worshiping or speed warrior- I am just throwing it out there.
The speed bonus seems a bit much- I could see it being +5, +10, +15 feet- or if it was somehow supernatural in nature and none stacking with other speed bonus' like from haste, magic foot wear, or other spells/psionics.
Anyway- I just had to throw this out there- I will keep silent until it is sent to me.
Anyway- here is one bit of feedback from me.
After reading this class, I have to ask this- why is it limited to the elf's and half-elfs? This would be a great "any class" PrC IMO- though very well situated for the rogue or ranger classes. This could be a sweet kind of wind worshiping or speed warrior- I am just throwing it out there.
The speed bonus seems a bit much- I could see it being +5, +10, +15 feet- ...
in the suggested fixes for the ability progression, penn and i fixed the speeds to this very amount. As for why only elves? The original kit was an elf exclusive one and we felt it better to keep that feel with the PrC. I'm even considering just nixing the whole half-elf part as well even.
Also, I'd leave the PrC open for both elves and half-elves. ;)
Seriously though, our approaches are very different from each other and I really like your version.
I think it still should be restricted only to elves, maybe half-elves (or dwelfs! ;)), but the kit said "At some point in an elf’s life, the wanderlust comes upon him."...
I think you could consider the Capricious Step ability from the elocater prc (XPH), as well as the Sidestep Charge feat for it.
I would make it full elves too- just because the elven run seems to tie into this class, unless you also say that half-elves taking this class have either trained or lived their whole lives with the elves and have developed the ability too- which would be cool and I would love to see that.
Requirements
Special: Must be a member of an elven tribe
:P :D ;)
I know it says that Sysane- but that does not automatically preclude half-elves from taking the class, but it does also not give them the elf run ability- hence my statement on giving it to the half-elfs who take this class- BECAUSE they have lived in the elven tribe!
They shouldn't be precluded. If the half-elf met the requirement of being part of the tribe they should be able to enter into the PrC. That should cover your suggestion of stating that half-elves taking this class have either trained or lived their whole lives with the elves.
I honestly think that the elf-run mechanic itself should include half-elves and not granted to them in the form of a PrC ability. At the very most, it could be a half-elf racial feat.
I like your 1st progression better, though I think you could still use a powerful 10th level ability, like Sure-Footed. You just need to explain it better.
When you say 1st progression, do you refer to the 1st alternate progression or the original progression?
When you say 1st progression, do you refer to the 1st alternate progression or the original progression?
1st alternate.
The class is unrelated to the elf run, so half-elves can take it. They can embrace their elven heritage and learn to love to run. Who cares if they have the elf run racial feature? Taking the Run feat and having the right ability scores will allow even a half-elf to follow elves.
Exactly. I still think a feat that would allow them to benefit from the elf-run is needed though
note - a few of the abilities have had their name changed
also note - still working on the fluff text. :D
Free Wanderer
“quote goes here ??? :D ”.
- Daaki, free wanderer
Description. Live by its wits; survive by its skills, far from his tribe before he returns to them. For most young elves, there comes a time in their life when they are overcome with a desire to see the world for themselves, outside the influence of the tribe. Many elves, view this time of wanderlust as a learning experience, an opportunity to master those traits which distinguish him as an elf. These elves, known as free wanderers seek to,...
Classes and races. As the skills of a rogue come most naturally to the elves of Athas, most free wanderers... Most other classes - commonly found templars and druids - rare
NPC xx are.
Hit Die: d6.
Requirements
To qualify to become a free wanderer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Elf or half-elf
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Sleight of Hand 6 ranks, Survival 4 ranks.
Feats: Wastelander.
Special: Must be a member of an elven tribe.
Class Skills:
The free wanderer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier.
Here are the points I find I still have trouble with or am unsure of:
- Should the Run feat be added to the requirements?
- Do the Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device skills really have their place in this class?
- Is 8 skills points per level too high in view of the class abilities?
Oh...and the Spring Attack ability needs a new name! Me and squid were unbale to find one despite efforts. Some spiffy idea would be great, just don't make it related to the wind as squid already has an ability named Windchaser.
I'd like to relaunch the discussion after squid's recent post of the revised class.
Here are the points I find I still have trouble with or am unsure of:
- Should the Run feat be added to the requirements?
- Do the Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device skills really have their place in this class?
- Is 8 skills points per level too high in view of the class abilities?
Oh...and the Spring Attack ability needs a new name! Me and squid were unbale to find one despite efforts. Some spiffy idea would be great, just don't make it related to the wind as squid already has an ability named Windchaser.
1. I do thing run should be added- it gives more support for the highlt increased speed.
2. I do not think the two Use Device skills relate in anyway to what this class does, so my vote would be to ditch them.
3. I think 6 or at the lowest 4 skill points would be the best for this class. I would also trim up the skill set too- removing Hide, Move Silently, Disquise, Forgery, Open Lock, and Disable Devise- This class is all about running and quick movement, so what do these skills have to do with it. So I would say, cut these skills from the list and drop the skill points to 6 and it would be great.
As for the name- how about Bounding Strike- that is all I got!
1. I do thing run should be added- it gives more support for the highlt increased speed.
2. I do not think the two Use Device skills relate in anyway to what this class does, so my vote would be to ditch them.
3. I think 6 or at the lowest 4 skill points would be the best for this class. I would also trim up the skill set too- removing Hide, Move Silently, Disquise, Forgery, Open Lock, and Disable Devise- This class is all about running and quick movement, so what do these skills have to do with it. So I would say, cut these skills from the list and drop the skill points to 6 and it would be great.
As for the name- how about Bounding Strike- that is all I got!
Pretty much sums up my thoughts
Oh, name for the spring attack ability. How about Wind Shear or Wind Pounce.
Wind Shear
Wind Pounce
Shifting Wind
...yeah, somehow the wind thematic keeps cropping up again. Oh well, its in squid's hands!
1. I do thing run should be added- it gives more support for the highlt increased speed.
Done
2. I do not think the two Use Device skills relate in anyway to what this class does, so my vote would be to ditch them.
3. I think 6 or at the lowest 4 skill points would be the best for this class. I would also trim up the skill set too- removing Hide, Move Silently, Disquise, Forgery, Open Lock, and Disable Devise- This class is all about running and quick movement, so what do these skills have to do with it. So I would say, cut these skills from the list and drop the skill points to 6 and it would be great.
Actually, this class is about learning to enjoy every now - this is accomplished by traveling to distant lands, enjoying new experiences, and honing their roguish ways, so as to better survive the harsh wastes. Hide, Move Silently, Disquise, Open Lock, and Disable Devise are all roguish skills that a free wanderer might use to survive until his next adventure and thus fit perfectly with the class.
Elves of Athas states: Free wanderers survive by their wits, their quickness, and their thieving skills. They see every guarded purse and locked box as a challenge they must accept. The contents of these guarded items, after all, belong to the elves - outsiders are only holding them until their rightful owners come along to relieve them of their burden.
As for Forgery, it has been removed, as has Decipher Script - this was actually a copy/paste error, as it had been removed already in an earlier version. And the Use M/P Device skills, I just see as a continuation of the elven mindset...they do not have an inherent fear of magic as other races do, seeing it as a useful tool. In my mind the free wanderer would not throw away this useful skill - and plus this was an ability expected to be obtained by the 2E rogues who would've been taking this class, so I just thought to stick with it. At heart, a free wanderer is a usually going to be a rogue, and as rogues are generally the only class to use these skills, this just helps to show that.
Oh, and almost forgot...the 2E kit that this was converted from had one benifit, and that was that it had extra skill points. Thus in keeping in line with that thought, I felt, and still feel, that 8+int mod is the right way to go for the skill points.
I should have read up on the kit before making my comments- that is what I get for not doing my homework ;)