************SPOILERS************
First of all, I thought it was a great read! I loved returning to the Princess Ark and reading about Haldemar's continuing adventures. As mentioned elsewhere, I thought this installment was one of Bruce's best so far
The artwork:
I really like this work by Attila Adorjany! I would love to see more of his(?) work! The style reminded me somewhat of Eberron, but that is not a bad thing at all. Who is depicted on p 62 and p 64? I'm guessing Talasar, but I can't be sure. The picture on p 64 reminds me a little of Brad Pitt. Who is the person in the background of that picture? What I first thought was the moon behind the ship, actually more resembles Mystara. Did anyone else notice? The skyship doesnt look quite like the PA though, does it? Certainly not Post-Berylith...?
Lord Nibboray
Cool name, and an interesting character. He hasn't been mentioned anywhere previously has he? I would love to hear more about him.
Potion of Aranea Ichor:
I wasn't aware that Aranea had trouble distinguishing between personalities when shape changing. Was that mentioned in the Herath article? Been a while since I read it. The potion having this effect was quite an interesting touch in any case.
Stone Badges:
Another interesting feature of Alphatian society that I believe hasn't been mentioned before. The statues announcing everyone's names was also a cool touch.
Floating Ar:
This place just got alot more interesting. The issue inspired me to want to play in Alphatia, and perhaps especially in this part of the Empire. The Lady Luck Casino, and Mungo were also nice additons, easy to use in a campaign.
Queen Eriadna:
Now this was a surprise. It seems like Bruce is hinting at some parts of WotI that we haven't known about so far at the end there. What exactly is Eriadna's plan? What does it have to do with Alphatia's fate in the Hollow World? Could it hail a return of Alphatia at a later point? This could also explain why magically aged Alphatians died during WotI while they shouldn't normally have. The fact that Ar survived WotI was also hinted at, which is interesting.
Lupin Bloodhounds:
I loved those guys! Have the Lupins of Alphatia been mentioned previously? I like the idea of having them as a sort of secret police.
Did anyone else pick up on any of this? Or anything else?
All in all, a great installment that left me craving for more. Thanks Bruce!
Håvard
Who is depicted on p 62 and p 64? I'm guessing Talasar, but I can't be sure. The picture on p 64 reminds me a little of Brad Pitt. Who is the person in the background of that picture?
I think the person on both pages is actually Xerdon. Talasar is bald- and is likely the person in the background on 64 (remember, he was captured along with the rest of the crew; Xerdon's geas/curse kept him from being captured. Also, the person is using a sword (and has a spellbook on p. 62), and Talasar uses a warhammer.
What I first thought was the moon behind the ship, actually more resembles Mystara. Did anyone else notice?
Now that you point it out, it does look like Mystara. Maybe it's supposed to be Matera (although that one is supposed to be invisible...)
The skyship doesnt look quite like the PA though, does it? Certainly not Post-Berylith...?
I think it would if it had that floating helm thing at the fore- at least it would look more like it. Maybe Leo and Berylith have made some more modifications since last we saw them?
I actually liked most of the artwork as well (that does look like Brad Pitt, btw). The only thing I didn't really like is that Eriadna looked too young. I know she keeps her youth magically, but she looks more like a teenager than an adult. (BTW- I went to the artists' website that you pointed out; some really great stuff. I especially liked his Swamp Thing.)
Lord Nibboray
Cool name, and an interesting character. He hasn't been mentioned anywhere previously has he? I would love to hear more about him.
Nope- brand new character. I liked him myself, and especially liked seeing some of the Council in action finally. We've heard about the Council for ages, but never really met or witnessed them doing anything- pro or con, outside of some fan expansions. I like that some of them are working against the Empress (as it should be- with that many wizards, there should be a bunch of them working at cross-purposes).
Potion of Aranea Ichor:
I wasn't aware that Aranea had trouble distinguishing between personalities when shape changing. Was that mentioned in the Herath article? Been a while since I read it. The potion having this effect was quite an interesting touch in any case.
It did mention that IIRC. I still find it kind of funny that the aranea were originally (in X2) just weird spiders, then Bruce gave them their shapeshifting in Princess Ark, and now the shapeshifting aranea are the "standard," and they've moved into the mainstream of D&D.
What exactly is Eriadna's plan?
It was hard to tell (after one reading, anyway). It seemed like her plan was to nullify all magic in Alphatia temporarily so as to prevent the Doomsday Device from using it against the nation... although I don't recall if that was precisely what the DD did or not (seems to me it was something like that- using the magical energy of Alphatia as a weapon against itself). If so, that means she had a lot more information about the nature of the DD than we'd previously thought- not that it did her any good in the end.
What does it have to do with Alphatia's fate in the Hollow World? Could it hail a return of Alphatia at a later point?
I don't think the two events are tied together, but maybe Bruce has some more info for us (hope he pops in here again, now the article's out).
I loved those guys! Have the Lupins of Alphatia been mentioned previously? I like the idea of having them as a sort of secret police.
Never been mentioned before, and from this article, it seems they've only been in existence for less than a year; it talks about the lupin pups being kidnapped and magically aged by Blackheart wizards.
Did anyone else pick up on any of this? Or anything else?
I noticed that it said Xerdon was betrayed by his superiors in the navy, which I can't recall offhand if it was mentioned in his original writeup in the Princess Ark articles/CoM. If so, that's an interesting tidbit of information. I also liked how he had his sword and
wand out- that would be a cool fighting style.
All in all, a great installment that left me craving for more. Thanks Bruce!
Håvard
yeah of course the greatest problem with it is that I just got into it all again and then the article was over. Of course it was too short, that was always going to be a complaint but it did succeed it rekindling the interst in the storyline - now I have to go back and reread all the old issues (and thanks to that purchase of the Dragon magazines on CD I can actually do that over here).
Nope- brand new character. I liked him myself, and especially liked seeing some of the Council in action finally. We've heard about the Council for ages, but never really met or witnessed them doing anything- pro or con, outside of some fan expansions. I like that some of them are working against the Empress (as it should be- with that many wizards, there should be a bunch of them working at cross-purposes).
yeah that was nice to see, and even though I'm a huge Glantri fan it was particularly nice to see some aspects of this intrigue in a non-Glantrian situation.
It did mention that IIRC. I still find it kind of funny that the aranea were originally (in X2) just weird spiders, then Bruce gave them their shapeshifting in Princess Ark, and now the shapeshifting aranea are the "standard," and they've moved into the mainstream of D&D.
yeah I recall that as well from Bruce's stuff and this is a item to continue with those issues.
It was hard to tell (after one reading, anyway). It seemed like her plan was to nullify all magic in Alphatia temporarily so as to prevent the Doomsday Device from using it against the nation... although I don't recall if that was precisely what the DD did or not (seems to me it was something like that- using the magical energy of Alphatia as a weapon against itself). If so, that means she had a lot more information about the nature of the DD than we'd previously thought- not that it did her any good in the end.
that was another nice aspect of the story for me. The ruler of Alphatia wasn't necessarily totally blind to what was going on. That was very believable for someone who is such a powerful entity in such a powerful nation. As you say of course it didn't do her any good but it was nice also to get a new pre-WotI look at things without having to rewrite things that have already happened - which is a danger that sometimes these sort of things might go for. It was in line with what we already knew, but added to what we already knew.
Never been mentioned before, and from this article, it seems they've only been in existence for less than a year; it talks about the lupin pups being kidnapped and magically aged by Blackheart wizards.
yeah that's what I got from the story too, it's only because of Haldemar's reports from Renardy that lead to the whole thing. It was a nice tie-in to Bruce's lupin article but also nice to see the Princess Ark storyline having an effect in what is then present-day Alphatia.
as you can probably tell from all of this yeah I enjoyed the article.
I think the person on both pages is actually Xerdon. Talasar is bald- and is likely the person in the background on 64 (remember, he was captured along with the rest of the crew; Xerdon's geas/curse kept him from being captured. Also, the person is using a sword (and has a spellbook on p. 62), and Talasar uses a warhammer.
Ah, that makes sense. I tried looking at the illustrations from CoM, but those didn't have names on them either. I guess that explains why Xerdon looks so sad in the pic on p. 64, probably due to him being cursed.
Now that you point it out, it does look like Mystara. Maybe it's supposed to be Matera (although that one is supposed to be invisible...)
It could be a scene from when the Princess Ark was visiting Matera. The continents strongly resemble Mystara's. ..
I think it would if it had that floating helm thing at the fore- at least it would look more like it. Maybe Leo and Berylith have made some more modifications since last we saw them?
If this scene was in fact from when they were visiting Matera, IIRC that was before the Berylith incident, which could explain the appearance of the ship at the time.
I actually liked most of the artwork as well (that does look like Brad Pitt, btw). The only thing I didn't really like is that Eriadna looked too young. I know she keeps her youth magically, but she looks more like a teenager than an adult. (BTW- I went to the artists' website that you pointed out; some really great stuff. I especially liked his Swamp Thing.)
Yes, it was quite nice. I'm a fan of the Swamp Thing too, especially Alan Moore's stories so that didn't hurt my impression of the artist.
Nope- brand new character. I liked him myself, and especially liked seeing some of the Council in action finally. We've heard about the Council for ages, but never really met or witnessed them doing anything- pro or con, outside of some fan expansions. I like that some of them are working against the Empress (as it should be- with that many wizards, there should be a bunch of them working at cross-purposes).
Yes, this is perfect. It is interesting that the council was referred to as the "Council of Wizards", leaving out the "level" part. I never liked bringing in game mechanical terms into the setting anyway.
It did mention that IIRC. I still find it kind of funny that the aranea were originally (in X2) just weird spiders, then Bruce gave them their shapeshifting in Princess Ark, and now the shapeshifting aranea are the "standard," and they've moved into the mainstream of D&D.
Hmmm...yes, Mystara's legacy lives on it seems. We could make them into different breeds/subraces of Aranea, some of which have shapeshifting and others who don't. The Half-spider shape is also only limited to some races IIRC. Should the Thanegioth Aranea or the ones on the Isle of Dawn be shapeshifters?
It was hard to tell (after one reading, anyway). It seemed like her plan was to nullify all magic in Alphatia temporarily so as to prevent the Doomsday Device from using it against the nation... although I don't recall if that was precisely what the DD did or not (seems to me it was something like that- using the magical energy of Alphatia as a weapon against itself). If so, that means she had a lot more information about the nature of the DD than we'd previously thought- not that it did her any good in the end.
Or did it? My reading of this is that it hints at a relevation of something new. Did in fact Eriadna herself send Alphatia into the Hollow World? Or does her enchantment open to some way of sending Alphatia back to the Outer World? I know Terari would love to help there...
In any case, this is an important example of how high level characters react to immortal influence. Common men may be mere pawns, but powerful wizards are another matter...
I don't think the two events are tied together, but maybe Bruce has some more info for us (hope he pops in here again, now the article's out).
Yes, that would be cool. Ofcourse if he could reveal it in a new installment of the PA in the next issue of Dragon that would be cool too. (but perhaps less likely).
Never been mentioned before, and from this article, it seems they've only been in existence for less than a year; it talks about the lupin pups being kidnapped and magically aged by Blackheart wizards.
Ah, you are right. I guess that is a good way around arguments by those who'd complain why Lupins werent mentioned in DotE. In any case I like having them there. I consider especially the Lupin and Rakasta to be iconic Mystara creatures now, even if they were to a great extent retrofitted into the setting.
I noticed that it said Xerdon was betrayed by his superiors in the navy, which I can't recall offhand if it was mentioned in his original writeup in the Princess Ark articles/CoM. If so, that's an interesting tidbit of information.
IIRC the same information was included in CoM, though I cant remember any more details about it. Would definately be cool to find out more about that.
I also liked how he had his sword and
wand out- that would be a cool fighting style.
Indeed!
Håvard
yeah that's what I got from the story too, it's only because of Haldemar's reports from Renardy that lead to the whole thing. It was a nice tie-in to Bruce's lupin article but also nice to see the Princess Ark storyline having an effect in what is then present-day Alphatia.
In general this article seems to be doing a good job at tieing in elements from the previous series, both with the Lupins, the Aranea Ichor and various other elements. I also liked the inclusion of the Lupins since even newer readers may be familiar with the race from Mike McArtor's article, or the Dragon Compendium, and because as I mentioned I consider it an "iconic" Mystara creature.
Håvard
Håvard
Should there be a separate set of stats for Lupin Bloodhounds, given their unusual background? A Template perhaps?
Håvard
from my reading of the article I'd say definitely ... so who's up for it?
First of all, I thought it was a great read! I loved returning to the Princess Ark and reading about Haldemar's continuing adventures. As mentioned elsewhere, I thought this installment was one of Bruce's best so far
Thanks Dude! Sorry for the delay in getting back up here. I'm glad to see you had as much fun as I did writing it.
Lord Nibboray
Cool name, and an interesting character. He hasn't been mentioned anywhere previously has he? I would love to hear more about him.
Yup, new guy. I wanted to flesh out the council a bit more, so having Mr Bad-Boy-Council-Head-Honcho for starters seemed almost a must. This one can be developed as a recurring bad guy, and a growing nuisance for Eriadna. He's no doubt the first in line among the opposition to the present imperial dynasty.
Potion of Aranea Ichor:
I wasn't aware that Aranea had trouble distinguishing between personalities when shape changing. Was that mentioned in the Herath article? Been a while since I read it. The potion having this effect was quite an interesting touch in any case.
IIRC that's the way I had designed them originally. An aranea is supposed to "become" the person into whom it shape shifts. As a result, its previous personality tends to get a bit fuzzy in its mind, especially while in a form that is alien to its natural state. The reason for this is to make it much harder to detect. Originally, araneas created specific alter egos to
dwell among other races without raising suspicion. They don't normally do what doppelgangers do -- imitate an actual person. This is where the potion deviates from the natural Herathian ability. It's been tinkered with by someone capable of getting components like aranean ichor, doppelganger spine, smoke, mirrors, and garlic (for flavor).
Queen Eriadna:
Now this was a surprise. It seems like Bruce is hinting at some parts of WotI that we haven't known about so far at the end there. What exactly is Eriadna's plan? What does it have to do with Alphatia's fate in the Hollow World? Could it hail a return of Alphatia at a later point? This could also explain why magically aged Alphatians died during WotI while they shouldn't normally have. The fact that Ar survived WotI was also hinted at, which is interesting.
Well, there's a part I haven't explained as clearly as I wanted -- Eriadna plans to prevent Alphatia's relocation to the Hollow World (thus the anti-magic conspiracy). That's the specific part she tries to fight against. Whether magic ceases to function in the empire for some time (as a result of her spell or the artifact's catastrophe) remains irrelevant in the long term. Sure, it'll hurt for a while, but Alphatia can recover. Eriadna's next goal is to devise solutions to the permanent magical drain. She does want that artifact obliterated and will stop at nothing to achieve this goal. Will she succeed? That's up to you. Her enchantment could also fail entirely. It could instead throw a major monkey wrench in the way the artifact "malfunctions" and provoke other unexpected effects. And if you want to twist the story further, she might indeed endeavor to remove Alphatia from the surface as a means to protect it from the artifact's devastation -- however this seems like jumping into the wolf's mouth. Besides, many Immortals would probably support this latest development upon discovering Eriadna's plan. So, this is wide open. I clearly did not what to rewrite what was what aleary published.
Lupin Bloodhounds:
I loved those guys! Have the Lupins of Alphatia been mentioned previously? I like the idea of having them as a sort of secret police.
Nope, new bad doggies working the bad boys at the Council. They're great at sniffing out conspiracies and they make very, very loyal campanions for paranoid wizards. Besides they come in six-packs -- you know, the entire allotment of a standard Black Heart maturation vat. All six are identical and empathically linked together.
All in all, a great installment that left me craving for more. Thanks Bruce!
You're welcome! It would be fun to launch a new series of a more "generic" nature since the old system and game world are out of print. The idea would remain the same, along with the original storyline. Hey, who knows?
Bruce
I noticed that it said Xerdon was betrayed by his superiors in the navy, which I can't recall offhand if it was mentioned in his original writeup in the Princess Ark articles/CoM. If so, that's an interesting tidbit of information. I also liked how he had his sword and wand out- that would be a cool fighting style.
Yes, this was part of the original description (see CoM for that). This is a guy who's had upper level contacts in the Council and obviously as of now, with Eriadna herself. He's a pawn who could at some point regain some or all of his past glory as a general, a bit like Gladiator's Maximus. Not as likeable though... And he hasn't been poisoned by anyone's insidous dagger. Yet.
Bruce
Thanks Dude! Sorry for the delay in getting back up here. I'm glad to see you had as much fun as I did writing it.
I'm glad you decided to come back and share your thoughts Bruce! In fact you may have been a day early, since they still havent updated the boards, meaning these messages may disappear. I'm saving these posts as we go, so hopefully nothing will be lost.
Lord Nibboray:
Yup, new guy. I wanted to flesh out the council a bit more, so having Mr Bad-Boy-Council-Head-Honcho for starters seemed almost a must. This one can be developed as a recurring bad guy, and a growing nuisance for Eriadna. He's no doubt the first in line among the opposition to the present imperial dynasty.
I like him. You are right, the council needed some fleshing out. Everyone seemed so concerned about the level 36 issue that noone has paid much attention to who these guys really are. Having Lord Nibboray act as a sort of spokesman for the council is a good way of illustrating the tension between it and Eriadna, showing that Alphatia is a bit more than a uniform block politically. (It should probably be much more diverse even).
IIRC that's the way I had designed them originally. An aranea is supposed to "become" the person into whom it shape shifts. As a result, its previous personality tends to get a bit fuzzy in its mind, especially while in a form that is alien to its natural state. The reason for this is to make it much harder to detect. Originally, araneas created specific alter egos to
dwell among other races without raising suspicion. They don't normally do what doppelgangers do -- imitate an actual person. This is where the potion deviates from the natural Herathian ability.
I liked this. It goes into some of the more interesting side effects of magic that are often forgotten. How things are actually experienced is often overlooked. Perhaps we can learn something from Harry Potter there?
It's been tinkered with by someone capable of getting components like aranean ichor, doppelganger spine, smoke, mirrors, and garlic (for flavor).
Well, there's a part I haven't explained as clearly as I wanted -- Eriadna plans to prevent Alphatia's relocation to the Hollow World (thus the anti-magic conspiracy). That's the specific part she tries to fight against. Whether magic ceases to function in the empire for some time (as a result of her spell or the artifact's catastrophe) remains irrelevant in the long term. Sure, it'll hurt for a while, but Alphatia can recover. Eriadna's next goal is to devise solutions to the permanent magical drain. She does want that artifact obliterated and will stop at nothing to achieve this goal. Will she succeed? That's up to you. Her enchantment could also fail entirely. It could instead throw a major monkey wrench in the way the artifact "malfunctions" and provoke other unexpected effects. And if you want to twist the story further, she might indeed endeavor to remove Alphatia from the surface as a means to protect it from the artifact's devastation -- however this seems like jumping into the wolf's mouth. Besides, many Immortals would probably support this latest development upon discovering Eriadna's plan. So, this is wide open. I clearly did not what to rewrite what was what aleary published.
Ah, this is very useful!
As you say, this leaves the option for some of having Eriadna succeed, completely or partially, thus avoiding that part of the WotI timeline.
Here is another thought: Eriadna's spell fails, but not completely. Alphatia is transported into the Hollow World, but the Enchantment acts as some sort of Reality Anchor (my term) to the Outer World, making it possible to bring Alphatia back to the surface in spite of the Spell of Preservation and the Anti Magic of Mystara's Core. Ideally Master Terari should play a role in the final stage of brining Alphatia back, since that could be the next step on his path to Immortality.
It would also make him have to leave the School of Magecraft, leaving it open for darker forces to take over there. (Karameikos needs some dark elements now that the Black Eagle is gone(?) )
Nope, new bad doggies working the bad boys at the Council. They're great at sniffing out conspiracies and they make very, very loyal campanions for paranoid wizards. Besides they come in six-packs -- you know, the entire allotment of a standard Black Heart maturation vat. All six are identical and empathically linked together.
Sweet details!
I would like to see more done on these guys. It also makes alot of sense to bring Lupins to Alphatia. I like having them all over the place, while still retaining a certain uniqueness to the Lupins of each area.
You're welcome! It would be fun to launch a new series of a more "generic" nature since the old system and game world are out of print. The idea would remain the same, along with the original storyline. Hey, who knows?
I'm a setting guy myself. I'm less interested in what rules are used as long as the world itself is explanded. More Princess Ark stuff (The Next Generation?) would be great! Whether we would see it in Dragon or elsewhere, I would really love to see it happen.
Oh yeah, what did you think of the way the article was presented? Did you like the look, the artwork, the editing etc? Did you have any influence on any of that?
And another question: How did this article come to be? Did paizo contact you for the anniversary issue or did you contact them? Was the article based on things you had laying around from the old series or mostly on new ideas? (Okay that was more than one question).
Håvard
Here is another thought: Eriadna's spell fails, but not completely. Alphatia is transported into the Hollow World, but the Enchantment acts as some sort of Reality Anchor (my term) to the Outer World, making it possible to bring Alphatia back to the surface in spite of the Spell of Preservation and the Anti Magic of Mystara's Core. Ideally Master Terari should play a role in the final stage of brining Alphatia back, since that could be the next step on his path to Immortality.
As a magical hiccup, Alphatia could also end up becoming a Brigadoon of sorts, traveling between the Hollow World and the surface, based upon planetary configuration! It would therefore be present in both worlds, on an alternating schedule.
Oh yeah, what did you think of the way the article was presented? Did you like the look, the artwork, the editing etc? Did you have any influence on any of that?
I liked the style of the art, although I'm not sure if my guidelines were followed or precise enough for the artist to be able to render the characters as they normally appear. There was no communication at that level.
And another question: How did this article come to be? Did paizo contact you for the anniversary issue or did you contact them? Was the article based on things you had laying around from the old series or mostly on new ideas? (Okay that was more than one question).
I was contacted directly. I was given a set number of words which dictated pretty much what I could do. For example, I decided against adding a Gazetteer-style map so common to Princess Ark adventures, simply because it would have taken more space and required quite a bit more text to flesh out. I didn't know if Paizo would have wanted to spend the resources needed to complete such a map in the correct style considering that all the icon artwork for the hexes is now long gone. These maps were all done using acetate layers and lick & stick symbols -- literally. These maps took a lot of time to do right. Ditto game stats, NPCs, and other background game material for the article for space consideration. I focused on the adventure because this was the center piece. Later on, I received a request to add generic background info for readers who are unfamiliar with the series. This came in addition to my original space allotment. So I consider myself fortunate to have had more space in the magazine for the Princess Ark and for the opportunity to add another adventure. Thank you Paizo! This is entirely new material by the way. It made more sense to me to stick with the old timeline to retain as much of the series original flavor as possible.
Bruce
I actually got Dragon 344 about two weeks ago, but I've been waiting for the new boards. (By the way, I actually shouted at my monitor this morning, "No Bruce, if you post today your message will disappear!" :embarrass )
Anyway... I read the new article, and I thought it was excellent. Well done, Bruce! I wholeheartedly concur with Håvard that this is probably your best Princess Ark article yet. And I also agree with comments elsewhere that your writing seems to have gotten (even) better since your last official printed stuff.
Episode 36 really was a joy to read from start to finish. You did a great job combining old and new plot elements, and showing off the characters we have all come to know and love - while also introducing intriguing new faces. It was extremely nostalgic seeing the same old format, complete with Alphatian dates and notes like "Talasar, from a later account".
Regarding your last comments, Håvard's questions, and indeed the ending of the article - which makes it clear this is not the end of the story (nice one, Bruce! :D) - I think you know that we would all be absolutely over the moon if you were to continue the series in any way.
Put simply: among all the great things you did for Mystara, the Princess Ark was the most exciting, and it was also a great advert for the whole setting. The work you did to expand the Known World in that article was nothing short of genius. Thank you for once again giving us a taste of this, 13 years after the adventure ended.
If I were to have one criticism about the article, it would be the lack of a nice hex map to accompany it. ;):D
These maps were all done using acetate layers and lick & stick symbols -- literally. These maps took a lot of time to do right.
*Taps Bruce on the shoulder and runs away.*
Anyway... I read the new article, and I thought it was excellent. Well done, Bruce! I wholeheartedly concur with Håvard that this is probably your best Princess Ark article yet. And I also agree with comments elsewhere that your writing seems to have gotten (even) better since your last official printed stuff.
Thank you so much for all of your praise. I'm not sure though if it is my writing style improving or your eagerness to read a new adventure! The worst of food tastes divinely to the one who starves! Upon reading the printed version of my article, I winced at a few things I would have written differently (my mistakes -- not the editor's). Due to lack of space and the log-book writing style of the series, I had to hold off on a lot of sensory information that would have made the narrative more vibrant (noises, smells, tastes, visual details, physical textures, impressions, feelings, etc). In retrospect it's always easy to pick things apart. Most of all, I had a lot of fun getting back into a writing mode for the adventure. It's been some 13 years since the last episode -- I had to do a lot of digging and re-reading to get back up to speed on all my stuff! Believe it or not!
Cheers to all!
Bruce
Put simply: among all the great things you did for Mystara, the Princess Ark was the most exciting, and it was also a great advert for the whole setting. The work you did to expand the Known World in that article was nothing short of genius. Thank you for once again giving us a taste of this, 13 years after the adventure ended.
Thanks again, Thorf. The adventure does not need "an end". This is bit like the Star Trek of heroic fantasy. It keeps going on for a long, long time. For the die-hards, the entire crew could turn undead and haunt the skies of Mystara, in the style of the classical Flying Dutchman. As long as there is a Princess Ark, someone will fly her. Perhaps the crew cannot be released until the enchantment is broken -- in other words, once they are all dead, they return to the ship as undead creatures. :D
Bruce
I really like that you picked up the story where you left off, thus allowing more variations and ideas on the Wrath of the Immortals plot lines. I've always been in favour of having 1000 AC as the base campaign setting, with all the later products available to DMs to use and misuse as they see fit in the course of their campaigns.
By the way, in case you didn't get my cryptic post above, the gist is that I have remade all the original Mystara hex symbols, as well as a large proportion of the original maps. I agree that it takes a long time to make a good map, but thanks to the programs available nowadays the tools are available to us.
Thanks again, Thorf. The adventure does not need "an end". This is bit like the Star Trek of heroic fantasy. It keeps going on for a long, long time. For the die-hards, the entire crew could turn undead and haunt the skies of Mystara, in the style of the classical Flying Dutchman. As long as there is a Princess Ark, someone will fly her. Perhaps the crew cannot be released until the enchantment is broken -- in other words, once they are all dead, they return to the ship as undead creatures. :D
Now that sounds like a good idea for a Star Trek-ish parallell universe episode where Haldemar & Co encounter a crew of undead versions of themselves.... ;)
Håvard
Now that sounds like a good idea for a Star Trek-ish parallell universe episode where Haldemar & Co encounter a crew of undead versions of themselves.... ;)
Or Nightmare versions of themselves? I am really liking this idea, now- Haldemar and the other "humans" would be diaboli, and some of the other non-human members of the crew would be other Nightmarish races of some sort... Hm.
Now that sounds like a good idea for a Star Trek-ish parallell universe episode where Haldemar & Co encounter a crew of undead versions of themselves.... ;)
Håvard
Hmmm... maybe a Mystaran version of the Borg. Kidnap Haldemar to be an intelligent, undead counterpart and "assimilate" the rest of the crew as zombie drones.
Sounds like a lot of fun actually...
By the way, in case you didn't get my cryptic post above, the gist is that I have remade all the original Mystara hex symbols, as well as a large proportion of the original maps. I agree that it takes a long time to make a good map, but thanks to the programs available nowadays the tools are available to us.
And since Thorf made the source files available, some of us with the proper software (Adobe Illustrator) have been able to make our own hex maps in the same style!
Hmmm... maybe a Mystaran version of the Borg. Kidnap Haldemar to be an intelligent, undead counterpart and "assimilate" the rest of the crew as zombie drones.
Heck, if you're going for Mystaran Borg, might as well use the Oards, who predated the Borg by at least 4 years. (1985 first appearance in "Where Chaos Reigns"; 1989 first appearance of Borg in "Q Who?")
The question is, who's Worf? Myojo, Nyanga, or Xerdon?
For that matter, is the Princess Ark crew the Original Series, or the Next Generation?
Haldemar = He could be either Kirk or Picard, really.
Leo = Seems much more Scotty than Geordi
Talasar = Here's a tough one, IIRC, he's the First Officer, but he seems more like Bones than Spock or Riker.
Xerdon = Riker? Chekhov? Worf?
Ashari = Wesley Crusher?
I give up- they really don't fit too well into either generation. The Princess Ark crew is its very own unique crew.
Heck, if you're going for Mystaran Borg, might as well use the Oards, who predated the Borg by at least 4 years. (1985 first appearance in "Where Chaos Reigns"; 1989 first appearance of Borg in "Q Who?")
The question is, who's Worf? Myojo, Nyanga, or Xerdon?
For that matter, is the Princess Ark crew the Original Series, or the Next Generation?
Haldemar = He could be either Kirk or Picard, really.
Leo = Seems much more Scotty than Geordi
Talasar = Here's a tough one, IIRC, he's the First Officer, but he seems more like Bones than Spock or Riker.
Xerdon = Riker? Chekhov? Worf?
Ashari = Wesley Crusher?
I give up- they really don't fit too well into either generation. The Princess Ark crew is its very own unique crew.
No Wesleys on this crew ;)
I loved playing CM6, and at some point those Oards will make an appearance in the conversion thread.
Now so as not to completely hijack this thread....
I loved the new installment Bruce! What can we do to convince Paizo to make this something that is a more frequent series than 1 installment per 13 years?
Bruce, it's true that we are (were?) starved for new articles. But remember also that a lot of us have grown up since we last read your series, and I hope we have also become a little more discerning. I was 15 when I read Episode 35, and 27 when I read 36; to be honest I would have expected it to be a disappointment due to self-overhyping and rose-tinted spectacles. But it turned out to exceed all my expectations.
yeah good point Thorf I fully agree
As a magical hiccup, Alphatia could also end up becoming a Brigadoon of sorts, traveling between the Hollow World and the surface, based upon planetary configuration! It would therefore be present in both worlds, on an alternating schedule.
an interesting idea. Ever since years ago now I think it was you Bruce who mentioned the concepts from the movie I've wnated to watch it but never got around to it and end up forgetting again. It sounds like such a cool ideal, but it comes from a musical, how can that be?
Bruce, it's true that we are (were?) starved for new articles. But remember also that a lot of us have grown up since we last read your series, and I hope we have also become a little more discerning. I was 15 when I read Episode 35, and 27 when I read 36; to be honest I would have expected it to be a disappointment due to self-overhyping and rose-tinted spectacles. But it turned out to exceed all my expectations.
Although for me it has been only a six-years gap (I only got the original VotPA with the Dragon Magazine Archive CDs), I entirely agree with Thorf here: the article does a good job at describing Alphatian politics, is as entertaining as usual, and adds lots on new details as well as opening an entire new series of adventures for the PA crew.
I clearly did not what to rewrite what was what aleary published.
With an eye on the stock market and the other on world cup soccer at the time I wrote the above, my fingers took this opportunity to throw a keyboard party at my own expense! Sorry for the word salad.
Bruce, it's true that we are (were?) starved for new articles. But remember also that a lot of us have grown up since we last read your series, and I hope we have also become a little more discerning. I was 15 when I read Episode 35, and 27 when I read 36; to be honest I would have expected it to be a disappointment due to self-overhyping and rose-tinted spectacles. But it turned out to exceed all my expectations.
OK, I'll concede that one gracefully! ;)
By the way, in case you didn't get my cryptic post above, the gist is that I have remade all the original Mystara hex symbols, as well as a large proportion of the original maps. I agree that it takes a long time to make a good map, but thanks to the programs available nowadays the tools are available to us.
Cool! I would like to get a copy of these symbols. Of course I'm not sure if I'll be able to use them. My command of Photoshop (?) is at best limited. I have a copy but found it user-unfriendly. For a good laugh: I completed a board game prototype a few years back and got so frustrated with Photoshop I ended up moving everything to... MS Paint!
The boradgame looked good but the files would be worthless to a publisher.Haldemar = He could be either Kirk or Picard, really.
Leo = Seems much more Scotty than Geordi
Talasar = Here's a tough one, IIRC, he's the First Officer, but he seems more like Bones than Spock or Riker.
Xerdon = Riker? Chekhov? Worf?
Ashari = Wesley Crusher?
I wasn't quite so literal about the above. I alluded to the general concept of a ship and its crew having regular adventures in uncharted lands. Obviously the PA crew has no direct relation to Star Trek.
I loved the new installment Bruce! What can we do to convince Paizo to make this something that is a more frequent series than 1 installment per 13 years?
I'll talk to Erik Mona. Can't promise anything -- this is a very long shot.
Cool! I would like to get a copy of these symbols. Of course I'm not sure if I'll be able to use them. My command of Photoshop (?) is at best limited. I have a copy but found it user-unfriendly. For a good laugh: I completed a board game prototype a few years back and got so frustrated with Photoshop I ended up moving everything to... MS Paint!
Hehehe, I can imagine. It would look good on your screen, but for printing you need either high resolution or vector art.
You can get my symbols and mapping kit here, but the bad news is that it uses Adobe Illustrator CS (or CS2). Illustrator is similar to Photoshop in many ways - including difficulty and price! - but it deals mostly with vector graphics. Some others have adapted my hexes to free hex-mapping programs, but I don't know the details. Can someone else fill us in on that?
I wasn't quite so literal about the above. I alluded to the general concept of a ship and its crew having regular adventures in uncharted lands. Obviously the PA crew has no direct relation to Star Trek.
I must admit, considering the timing of the original Princess Ark series, when Star Trek: The Next Generation was at the height of its popularity, I always really enjoyed the similarities, and wondered if some apparent in-jokes were deliberate or not. ;)
I'll talk to Erik Mona. Can't promise anything -- this is a very long shot.
It's great to hear that you would be up for doing such a thing.
Even if it's just a once in a while thing, I can guarantee Dragon would gain at least one more subscriber if they brought back your series. :DCan someone else fill us in on that?
Maybe I can. I draw my maps by using a combination of Hexmapper (for the basic hexes layout) and MS Paint (for the details, such as roads, rivers, coastlines, and names).
I do not use really good Thorf's hexes (the list I use is available here: http://it.geocities.com/lutetius/Mappe/Hexes.zip ;just substitute with this folder the "Hexes" folder of the Hexmapper), but I think it should be quite easy to convert them in .bmp files (that can be accepted as new terrain hexes by the Hexmapper).
The Hexmapper is freely downloadable almost everywhere on the web, and it's quite user-friendly. Its output is a .bmp file, that can be easily opened with MS Paint for furhter modifications. The modified map can be opened again with the Hexmapper, if you were not satisfied by the results.
As regards MS Paint, I think it is a largely underestimated program. If you work with a very large zoom (6x or 8x) you can draw river and coastlines with a very good precision, and you can modify colors and other details as you like.
The result may be similar to this, or it may be even better:
http://it.geocities.com/lutetius2/Mappe2/Northern_Wildlands.jpg
Hope this helps. ;)
As regards MS Paint, I think it is a largely underestimated program. If you work with a very large zoom (6x or 8x) you can draw river and coastlines with a very good precision, and you can modify colors and other details as you like.
In regards to MS Paint, that is what I used when I originally made my hexes, ages ago, and is the system that was used in a lot of the early maps on the Vaults- I know that Geoff and Mystaros, among others, used the hexes I created, and I think just about everyone that used them modified them to some extent. The MS Paint hexes I currently use were adapted by another person (I can't recall his name offhand, sadly) who made the hexes more uniform in shape, and added a bunch of new hexes that I had never made initially.
It is definitely underestimated- I didn't originally know you could change the size of the canvas until I saw Geoff's huge Norwold map and he told me how to do it (and now I have some gigantic maps of the Isle of Dawn waiting for completion), and I've changed the palette many times since I first began using the program.
I haven't used it too much lately, since I find the Layering system in Photoshop/Illustrator to be much more conducive to drawing in rivers, roads, and bodies of water. I did find it much easier to cut and paste hexes into MS Paint than I do with Thorf's Illustrator files, I must say- but that is probably largely due to my relative unfamiliarity with Illustrator rather than any difficulties inherent in the programs.
As a result, the last time I sat down to work on maps, I was using Photoshop to try and recreate hexes and maps from MS Paint that I had, but I must admit, I really love the Plateau brush that Thorf used in his Illustrator files- I tried to recreate it in Photoshop, but couldn't get it to do the same thing- I may have been doing it wrong, but I think that was a case of differences between the two programs.
I wasn't quite so literal about the above. I alluded to the general concept of a ship and its crew having regular adventures in uncharted lands. Obviously the PA crew has no direct relation to Star Trek.
A good thing IMO. The Star Trek analogy worked very well as a model to build the series on, but taking it too far would have risked becoming too much of a parody to be enjoyable.
OTOH, I like thinking of the VotPA series as being "The Original Series", which could provide ideas for a "Next Generation" (Heldanner command crew members on an Alphatian vessel?), "Deep Space 9" (Serraine?) and "Voyager" (lost in the Hollow World?). All good fun
I'll talk to Erik Mona. Can't promise anything -- this is a very long shot.
Now this is cool! I am so happy that you would be interested in something like this should the opportunity arise. The fact that Paizo contacted you about the VotPA episode and not the other way around also convinces me that Erik Mona & Co are more positive towards Mystara than I suspected. Erik's comments on the paizo boards about a VotPA hardcover or pdf in the future also confirms this.
I'm not sure what exactly, but I think that *something* could come out of this...
Håvard
Maybe I can. I draw my maps by using a combination of Hexmapper (for the basic hexes layout) and MS Paint (for the details, such as roads, rivers, coastlines, and names).
I do not use really good Thorf's hexes (the list I use is available here: http://it.geocities.com/lutetius/Mappe/Hexes.zip ;just substitute with this folder the "Hexes" folder of the Hexmapper), but I think it should be quite easy to convert them in .bmp files (that can be accepted as new terrain hexes by the Hexmapper). (etc...)
Thanks for all the info on mapping. This is all very interesting. I wish I'd had all that stuff available to me when I wrote the original episodes of the Princess Ark. I used to draw these maps directly on paper, with a separate layer for text. Somewhere in the process, I made copies of these maps and started taping them together into an ever-expanding patchwork. It looked pretty silly and cumbersome.
I must admit I enjoyed the excercise of converting bits of these featureless continental maps into small-scale hex maps for the adventures -- all the while wondering what manner of creatures might be living there. Usually, the first version of the map ended up being scrapped as a result of putting together the adventure. I remember my wife walking away, shaking her head and rolling her eyes when I told her I had to redraft the map... oh, somewhere around 3:30 am on deadline day. She just could not understand that part.
Bruce
I'll talk to Erik Mona. Can't promise anything -- this is a very long shot.
I think we all understand that this is not your decision alone.
Personally I think it's great that you'll even consider it. Thank you.
As for the article, I loved it. I was amazed by how easily you fell back into the narrative style of the Princess Ark series. This really was part 36, right after part 35, with a very coherent plot development. The only real difference was in the art (though that's not to say I thought the art was bad - not at all - it was just a different style than in the original series, as would be inevitable by now).
And seeing as how I like Alphatia, it was very nice to see some intrigue at the grand council, which has always been terribly boring. I mean, the council is supposed to consist of 1000 ultra-powerful archmages, yet the only one we ever heard of in the books was Teldon, and that was just because he was Eriadna's father and the former emperor. Lord Nibboray would be the second, though I guess Struth the Shaker (from the "Son of Dawn" novel - which if very average fantasy) would be another one.
And Eriadna's plot is very interesting. I really like that you made a reference to the fate of Floating Ar in the plot, since that's always been one of those details that seemed very strange in how it was unaffected by the Week Without Magic towards the end of "Wrath of the Immortals".
Very cool!
Please keep it coming.
- The Stalker
I mean, the council is supposed to consist of 1000 ultra-powerful archmages, yet the only one we ever heard of in the books was Teldon, and that was just because he was Eriadna's father and the former emperor. Lord Nibboray would be the second, though I guess Struth the Shaker (from the "Son of Dawn" novel - which if very average fantasy) would be another one.
There are a couple of others mentioned here and there in DotE, but yeah- considering the number and influence of the Council, they seem to have gotten a very short shrift in comparison to Empress Eriadna (who, while very powerful, should often find herself quite stymied by the Council). The intrigue possibilities of the Empress and the Council alone would be quite something to explore, and I was glad to see Bruce deal with it here.
Of course, given the scope of DotE, I am often surprised by just how much Aaron Allston was able to squeeze into it, even while I wish we had gotten more, more, more.
I enjoyed the article as well, I'd love to see a new "Princess Ark" series, possibly a new voyage of Haldemar and company, exploring the world of Mystara after some unidentified cataclysm has seemingly changed everything. A great way to re-introduce the Mystara campaign setting using 3.5 rules with a unique perspective. (Haldemar remarking, for example, on a strange uneasiness... were dwarven wizards always around?)
As for the maps, I did some in the past myself, and even made a C# hex-mapping program a few years ago, until Thorf pretty much blew everyone out of competition in the map-making business. (No shame to lose to a master.) Some of my maps are up on Thibalt's site, I believe.