All of my contributions are now part of this thread. From now on I'm going to post all my contributions to this thread for ease of use. I will continue to update this post with new links to posts farther down. Please comment in this thread for my new stuff.
Newest additions include the Magmite, Transcendent Scholar, and a revision to the Gnostic PrC.
Or you could just post your new material all to this thread instead of creating a whole new thread each time and then just maintain the first post you have here as like an index. I have a similar thread and I did the same thing with the first post, though it needs to be updated.
#3radnoviusMay 29, 2006 18:09:42
Kalthandrix, that's what I meant. Along that vein here are a couple of new magma spells. I'm not sure if the second one should be of higher level or not. As in the immortal words of the Blood Hound Gang, "I'd appreciate your input."
Volcanic Breath
Transmutation [Air/Magma] Level: Air 1, Magma 1 Components: S, M, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 15 ft. Effect: Cone-shaped burst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (see text) Spell Resistance: Yes
You draw in a deep breath and expel it toward your opponents. Your breath becomes a cone of yellowish, noxious, superheated volcanic gases. All creatures within the cone must make a Fortitude save. Those who fail take 1d4 fire damage and are nauseated for 1d4 rounds. Those who succeed take half damage and are sickened for 1d4 rounds. Strong winds or a source of fresh air cut the duration of the nausea/sickness in half. Material components: A rotten egg and a bit of sulfur.
Thoqquan Mantle
Transmutation [Magma] Level: Magma 6 Components: V, S, M, F, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Effect: Gains traits of a thoqqua Duration: 1 round/ level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No
This spell bestows upon you the traits of a thoqqua. Upon casting thoqquan mantle, your cloak appears to conform to your body contour and become segmented plates glowing with orange-white heat. You gain a +7 AC bonus, immunity to fire and acid, vulnerability to cold, tremmorsense 60 ft., and darkvision 60 ft. You can burrow at 2/3 your normal speed. Contact with you deals 2d6 fire damage, though your gear is unaffected by the heat. Material component:A small piece of thoqqua hide. Focus: A large hooded leather cloak, which completely covers you and is crafted from the hide of a fire, earth, or magma creature worth at least 2,000 cp.
#4PennarinMay 29, 2006 19:14:28
You might think about copy/pasting all of your other material into this thread. The other threads would eventually dissapear beyond the main page in a week or so.
Elemental edge coats a weapon's striking edge with your patron elemental energy granting a +2 elemental damage bonus based upon your elemental patron as below. If two energy types are listed then one point is of each origin. The weapon's striking edge appears to be coated with your patron element for the duration of the spell.
Air: Electric
Earth: Acid
Fire: Fire
Magma: Fire/Acid
Rain: Cold/Electric
Silt: Cold/Acid
Sun: Fire/Electric
Water: Cold
Focus: The weapon.
#6radnoviusMay 29, 2006 19:31:49
Liquid form is a level 2 spell for silt and water clerics as well as a level 2 arcane spell. Magma form is a level 3 spell for magma clerics as well as a level 3 arcane spell.
Liquid Form
Transmutation [Silt/Water] Level: Silt 2, Water 2, Wiz 2 Components: S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing corporeal creature touched Duration: 2 minutes/level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No
The subject and all his gear becomes a pool of silt or water. The subject gains damage resistance 20/magic. His material armor becomes worthless, though his size, Dexterity, deflection bonuses, and armor bonuses from force armor still apply. He becomes immune to poison, disease, nausea, sickness, and critical hits. He can not attack or use spells with verbal, somatic, material, or focus components while in liquid form. The target loses supernatural abilities while in liquid form.
The liquid creature cannot run but may flow (speed 10). He can pass through small holes, or narrow openings, even mere cracks, with all he was wearing or holding in his hands, as log as the spell persists. He does not need to breathe while in this form, but he is subject to currents if he enters the medium into which he has changed. The swim skill does not nelp a creature in this form, the speed of the current is subtracted from his own speed when moving against it. For instance, if the creature enters a lake with a current speed of 5, he could travel against the current at speed 5.
A creature in this state is vulnerable to control tides. The lower tide version of the spell acts as a slow spell and may force the creature down a crack in the floor. The raise tide variant could prevent the creature from slipping escaping down a crack in the floor. For either version the creature gets a Will save to negate. Arcane material components: A vial of the pure liquid into which the target is to be transformed or the ichor of a mephit aligned to that liquid.
Magma Form
Transmutation [Magma] Level: Magma 3, Wiz 3
As liquid form, but the creature and all of his gear becomes magma conferring some additional effects. While in magma form, the creature ignites any flammable materials he contacts. He is immune to fire and acid, but takes double damage from cold or electric attacks. Anyone touching the creature in this form takes 2d6 magma damage (half fire/half acid).
#7radnoviusMay 29, 2006 19:41:32
This domain is an alternative to Wrath of the Fire Lord for fire clerics.
Fury of the Flame Element: Fire Class Skills: Intimidate Granted Power: You gain the fire smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a +4 attack bonus and a fire damage bonus equal to your cleric level (if you hit). Combustible materials struck with a fire smite ignite and victims of the strike must make a reflex saving throw (DC15) or catch on fire. You must declare the fire smite before making the attack. It is usable once per day.
Fury of the Flame Domain Spells
1 Burning Hands. 1d4 fire damage/level (max 5d4) {PHB}
2 Flame Blade. 1d8+1/2 levels fire damage (max +10), melee . {PHB}
3 Fiery Bolt. Creates 1 bolt/4 levels inflicting 4d6 fire damage, ranged.
4 Blindscorch. 1d4 fire damage/level (max 10d4), blinds 1 round/level. {DS3}
5 Flame Strike. 1d6 fire damage/level (max 15d6). {PHB}
6 Incendiary Embers. Creates 1-4 embers inflicting a total of 1d8/level damage (max 20d8), ranged.
7 Fire Storm. 1d6 fire damage/level (max 20d6). {PHB}
8 Incendiary Cloud. Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round. {PHB}
9 Conflagration. Incinerates a living creature. {DS3}
{PHB} = Player's Handbook
{DS3} = Darksun 3.5
#8radnoviusMay 29, 2006 19:48:47
An average Ozar could be summoned using monster summoning IV.
Ozar
Medium-Size Outsider (Fire, Earth, Extraplanar, Psionic)
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 30 ft., burrow 20 ft. AC: 18 (+6 natural, +2 large shield), 10 touch, 18 flat-footed Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4 Attack: Warhammer +4 melee (1d8+1/x3) or light hammer +3 ranged (1d4+1/x2) Full Attack: Warhammer +4 melee (1d8+1/x3) or light hammer +3 ranged (1d4+1/x2) Face/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special attacks: Heat Special Qualities: Acid immunity, darkvision 60 ft., fire immunity, spell/psionic resistance 14, vulnerability to cold Saves: Fort +5, Reflex +3, Will +4 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 9 Skills: Appraise +6, Climb +4, Craft (any two) +6, Concentration +6, Hide +5, Jump +4, Listen +7, Search +7, Spot +7, Swim +6 Feats: Power Attack
Environment: Elemental Planes of Earth and Fire, Paraelemental Plane of Magma Organization: Solitary, pair, team (2-4), squad (11-20 plus 2 4th-level sergeants and 1 leader of 4th-7th level), or clan (30-100 plus 30% non-combatants plus 1 4th-level sergeant per 20 adults, 5 6th-level lieutenants, and 3 8th-level captains) Challenge Rating: 3 Treasure: Standard coins; double goods (nonflammables only); standard items (nonflammables only) Alignment: Always lawful neutral Advancement: By character class Level adjustment: +4
Ozars are dwarflike outsiders native to the Paraelemental Plane of Magma. They have glassy black skin, and their eyes resemble white-hot coals. Ozars speak Volcan and Common, though many learn Ignan or Terran. Ozars usually wear simple tunics made from magma drake leather, carry large shields of magma drake scales, and weild hammers made of obsidian. Higher-level ozars often wear armor crafted from magma drake scales and carry weapons crafted from magma drake teeth or claws.
Combat
Average ozars use masterwork obsidian hammers in combat; though when unarmed, they attempt to grapple foes. The magma drake weapons carried by higher-level ozars, however, are of varied types and treated as masterwork weapons made of steel. Most ozars wear no armor as their hard skin provides ample protection. Those who wear magma drake armor (treated as masterwork steel) do so mostly as a sign of status.
Ozars are ill-tempered and extremely territorial. Trespassers are typically attacked on site. If threatened, they fight to the death, but have been known to take prisoners for slave labor or ransom.
Acid immunity (Ex): The glassy skin of the ozar is inert and unaffected by acid.
Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire immunity, double damage from cold except on a successful save.
Heat (Ex): Ozars’ bodies are extremely hot, so their unarmed attacks deal an additional 1d4 points of fire damage.
Ozar Society
Ozars have an extremely regimented society made up of multiple castes, and the good of the clan always outweighs the good of the individual. Ozars’ favored class is psychic warrior, though many are fighters, psions, or magma clerics. Ozar nobles wield absolute power and constantly seek to expand their territories. Ozars dwell in obsidian fortresses on their home plane as well as on the Elemental Planes of Fire and Earth. They are hated enemies of azers whose territory and gems they often steal. Ozars conduct great hunts for magma drakes which they use for many of their crafts. Magma clerics have been known to bargain with these outsiders for items made from magma drakes. Ozars are sometimes summoned to Athas by use of monster summoning spells.
Ozars As Characters
Ozar characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
—Medium size.
—An ozar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
—Darkvision: Ozars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
—Naturally Psionic: Ozars gain 3 bonus power points at 1st level.
—Racial Hit Dice: An ozar begins with three levels of outsider, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +3, and Will +3.
—Racial Skills: An ozar’s outsider levels give it skill points equal to 6 x (8 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Appraise, Climb, Craft, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Listen, Search, Spot and Swim.
—Racial Feats: An ozar’s outsider levels give it one feat.
— +6 natural armor bonus.
—Special Attacks (see above): Heat.
—Special Qualities (see above): Immunity to fire, immunity to acid, spell resistance equal to 14 + class levels, vulnerability to cold.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Volcan. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Imbran, Infernal, Pulvan, Solan, Terran.
—Favored Class: Psychic Warrior
—Level adjustment +4.
#9radnoviusMay 29, 2006 19:51:54
So I thought this would be a neat spell, particularly for templars. I can just see a templar spitting on his enemy. I extended the range to 15 feet.
You draw the humors of the body, black bile (earth), blood (air), phlegm (water), and yellow bile (fire), into your saliva and expel it toward an enemy (ranged touch). The target takes 2d4 energy damage depending upon the humors drawn. Elemental clerics must use the humor of their aligned element. Paraelemental clerics mix humors of the two adjacent elements (1d4 energy damage from each type). Templars and druids may choose any one humor at the time of casting.
Humor = Energy
Black bile = Acid
Blood = Electric
Phlegm = Cold
Yellow bile = Fire
Focus: The saliva.
#10radnoviusMay 29, 2006 20:50:17
Another air/magma spell for clerics.
Volcanic Vent
Conjuration (Creation) [Air/Magma] Level: Air 4, Magma 4 Components: V, S, M, DF Casting Time: 1 action Range: Medium (100ft. +10 ft./level) Effect: Cloud that spreads in 20-ft. radius 15-ft. high Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (see text) Spell Resistance: Yes
Noxious volcanic gases billow out from a point on the ground you designate. The yellowish vapors obscure all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has one-half concealment. Creatures farther away have total concealment. Living creatures within the vapors are nauseated (Fortitude negates. The nausea continues while the subject remains within the cloud and for 1d4+1 rounds after leaving the cloud. Creatures within the cloud also receive 1d4+1 fire damage/round (Fortitude half) from the heat. Creatures remaining within the cloud must continue to save each round to avoid nausea and minimize heat damage.
Material components: A rotten egg and a bit of sulfur.
#11radnoviusMay 29, 2006 20:56:27
A couple spells for fire, magma, and sun clerics.
Incendiary Embers
Conjuration (Creation) [Fire/Magma/Sun] Level: Fire 6, Magma 6, Sun 6 Components: V, S, M, DF Casting Time: 1 action/ember Range: 100 feet Effect: Up to 4 embers Saving Throw: Reflex half (see text) Spell Resistance: Yes
Up to four grenade-like embers may be conjured that can be hurled up to 100 feet. A ranged touch attack role is required to strike an intended target. Each ember bursts upon striking any hard surface. Together embers are capable of dealing 1d8 points of fire, magma (half fire/half acid), or sun (half fire/half electric) damage (depending upon your element) per level (maximum 20d8), divided up among the embers as you wish. The embers deal 1 point of splash damage per die and ignite combustible materials within 10 feet. If a creature within the burst area makes a successful Reflex saving throw, it takes only half damage; a creature struck directly always sustains full damage (no saving throw). Material components: The component depends on the version of the spell and the number of components equals the number of embers created. Fire: small fire-scorched nuts or pieces of wood. Magma: small igneous stones. Sun: sun-dried berries.
Searing Bolt
Conjuration (Creation) [Fire/Magma/Sun] Level: Fire 3, Magma 3, Sun 3 Components: V,S,M,DF Casting Time: 1 action Range: Medium (100 ft. +10 ft. /level) Effect: 1 elemental bolt Duration: 1 round +1 round/ 4 levels Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes
You conjure an elemental bolt which shoots toward enemies. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack roll to hit. The bolt deals 2d6 points of fire, magma (half acid/half fire), or sun (half fire/half electric) damage depending upon your patron element. The elemental substance persists for 1 round + 1 round per 4 levels (to a maximum of 6 rounds) and does an additional 2d6 damage/round. Material components: An oil-polished obsidian arrowhead.
By making a fist and uttering a word, you transmute your fist into a thing of pure molten rock. Although you and your possessions are unharmed, you can make a touch attack to inflict 2d4 magma (half fire/half acid) damage. The fist ignites, melts, or otherwise burns through an object it contacts as determined by the DM.
A 10-foot long cord of magma springs forth from your hand. You wield this cord as if it were a whip. The whip acts as a master's whip but deals additional magma (half fire/half acid) damage (ranged touch) of 1d6 points +1 point per 2 caster levels (maximum 1d6 +10). The magma whip can ignite combustible materials. Also creatures or objects continue to take the magma damage for each round within the grasp of the whip. This spell does not grant the feat exotic weapon proficiency, whip. Therefore, unless you are proficient with a master's whip, you suffer the -4 penalty for using a weapon with which you are unskilled.
This spell does not function under water.
You use an obsidian disc to peer through other obsidian surfaces within the spells range. You know how many obsidian surfaces are within range and the approximate location of each. You can see all light striking one surface of your choice within range. You may choose a new surface once per minute or continue to scry through the same one.. Anyone studying the obsidian surface can see your eye. Anyone glancing at the obsidian surface will see your eye on a spot check (DC your caster level + Wis modifier). One may only dispel your vision by breaking the obsidian surface or by casting some protection from scrying. You may not cast spells, communicate, or use any other abilities through the obsidian spyglass. If the obsidian surface you are peering through is destroyed the spell ends abruptly. Focus: A flawless obsidian disc worth 200 cp held up to the eye.
Soften Obsidian
Transmutation [Magma] Level: Magma 2 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 action Range: Close (25 ft. +5 ft. /level) Target: Obsidian equipment of one creature/2 levels, no two of which can be 30 ft. apart; or 25 lbs. of obsidian/level, all of which must be within a 30-ft. circle Duration: 5 rounds + 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
The obsidian equipment of the target creatures (1 creature/2 levels) becomes warm to the touch, soft, and malleable as though it were clay. Softened obsidian weapons do subdual damage equal to half the original damage and are deformed by the impact. Obsidian armor provides half AC and is deformed or cut by weapon strikes. Enchanted obsidian items may use their holders’ Will save to negate the effects. Deformed obsidian equipment may be reshaped during the duration of the spell by someone with appropriate sculpting skill. Alternatively, the cleric may make an amount 25 lbs. of obsidian/level malleable within a 30 ft. circle.
#13radnoviusMay 29, 2006 21:17:40
A house rule I have is that there are languages for the paraelemental planes. I used latin roots as they did for the other languages (except Auran which actually comes from gold rather than air {aer-}). I require clerics to take the language of their plane of worship as one of their initial languages.
Magma = Volcan (derived from Vulcan)
Silt = Pulvan (derived from pulvis meaning dust/powder)
Rain = Imbran (derived from imbrium meaning of rain)
Sun = Solan (derived from sol meaning sun)
#14radnoviusMay 29, 2006 21:26:59
This domain is a work in progress. I want a little more variety but haven't come up with the spells yet.
Elemental Command Element: Any Skill: Intimidate Granted Power: Turn or destroy creatures of your opposing element as a good cleric turns undead. Rebuke or command creatures of your element as an evil cleric rebukes undead. Use these abilities a total number of times per day equal to 3 + your charisma modifier.
Elemental Command Domain Spells
1 Summon Elemental I. Calls elemental outsider to fight for you.
2 Summon Elemental II. Calls elemental outsider to fight for you.
3 Summon Elemental III. Calls elemental outsider to fight for you.
4 Lesser Elemental Ally. Exchange services with an 8 HD elemental outsider.
5 Summon Elemental V. Calls elemental outsider to fight for you.
6 Elemental Ally. As lesser elemental ally but up to 16 HD.
7 Lesser Elemental Swarm. Summons elementals: 2d4 Small, 1d4 Medium, and 1 Large.
8 Greater Elemental Ally. As lesser elemental ally but up to 24 HD.
9 Elemental Swarm. Summons elementals: 2d4 Large, 1d4 Huge, and 1 Greater. {PHB}
Summon Elemental = Summon Monster but outsider origin is restricted to the elemental plane of the cleric. Elemental Ally = Planar Ally but outsider origin is restricted to the elemental plane of the cleric. Lesser Elemental Swarm = Functions as Elemental Swarm but elementals are 2 sizes smaller.
#15radnoviusMay 30, 2006 10:16:19
Here's a spell for the Cerebremancers. Let me know if you think it's too powerful for level.
Psychic Leech
Necromancy Level: Wiz 3* Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Psionic creature touched Saving Throw: Will partial (see text) Spell Resistance: Yes
You must succeed at a melee touch attack. Your touch drains a psionic creature of 1d4 power points per 2 caster levels (maximum 10d4). The victim gets a Will save for half. If the number of power points drained is greater then the creature’s reserve, he makes a second Will saving throw. Failure on this throw causes the creature to take a -2d4 enhancement penalty to his key manifester ability. You gain the power points drained up to a maximum of your caster level (maximum 20). Temporary power points disappear 1 hour later.
If the victim of this spell is a psionic being that has no power points, he makes a Will saving throw. If successful, the victim suffers a -2d4 enhancement penalty to Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma (determined randomly). If the roll fails, your attack instead bestows -2d4 enhancement penalty to each Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.
Enhancement penalties end after 1 hour.
This spell has no effect on non-psionic creatures.
* You must be able to manifest 2nd-level powers to cast this spell.
#16radnoviusMay 30, 2006 11:17:16
Another general elemental cleric spell. I think it could be a great catch for an adventure. The party tries to take out a cleric who manages to transport the party into his plane's energy conduit. The party pursues the priest into his patron plane realizing that they are somehow immune to the effects of the plane. The priest then informs them that they are trapped and will be unable to survive once the spells duration is up. Then the priest re-enters the conduit, leaving the players a matter of hours to find a way home or some additional way to survive on the inner plane.
Conduit Travel
Transmutation [Elemental]
Level: Clr 7 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: Up to one touched creature/2 caster levels. Duration: 1 hour/level Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes
To use conduit travel, you must be in an area with an ample amount of your patron element. You and any creature you touch with any creature he is touching (up to one creature per 2 caster levels) enter the energy conduit between the Prime Material Plane and the inner plane of your patron element.
While in the energy conduit you may peer into both the Prime Material Plane and the inner plane of your patron element. You may freely enter the plane of your patron element but may only enter the Prime Material Plane in an area with an ample amount of your element. For the duration of the spell you may exit and enter the conduit, and you and your equipment are immune to the energies of your patron element and may survive on your patron's inner plane. Travel in energy conduits is much faster than travel on the planes, allowing you to travel a distance of up to 7 miles in 10 minutes.
Any creatures touched by you or touching creatures touched by you when the spell is cast make the transition into the conduit. They and their equipment also receive protection from your patron elemental energies and the ability to survive on your patron's inner plane for the duration of the spell. They may opt to follow you, wander off through the conduit, or stumble through to the Prime Material Plane or the plane of your patron element. These creatures may exit the conduit as normal but may only reenter if linked to you by touch. Creatures remaining in the conduit after the duration of the spell take 3d10 damage/round unless protected in some other way from your patron elemental energies; they may still exit a conduit freely. Creatures unwilling to accompany you receive a Will saving throw, negating the effect if successful.
#17PennarinMay 30, 2006 13:18:34
Here's a spell for the Cerebremancers. Let me know if you think it's too powerful for level.
I think there's already such a spell at the end of the Expanded Psionic Handbook...duplicated in the SRD.
#18radnoviusMay 30, 2006 13:59:03
I think there's already such a spell at the end of the Expanded Psionic Handbook...duplicated in the SRD.
I found the psionic spells but none were very similar.
I found some level 4 psionic powers which were similar in type.
Power Leech: Drain 1d6 power points/round while you maintain concentration; you gain 1/round.
This power is ranged and may be maintained over multiple rounds.
Psychic Vampire: Touch attack drains 2 power points/level from foe.
This power is touch and simply deals power point damage. The manifester does not gain anything.
#19radnoviusMay 30, 2006 16:32:52
I've revised it yet again. It is still different than the Psychic Theurge, my problems with which are listed further down the thread. I've eliminated most of the the thematic traits and attempted to just balance with cerebremancer. Let me know what you think.
Gnostic
“I understand the essence of my fire because I understand the fire of my essence.” – Phlox, gnostic of fire
Spiritualism on Athas takes on various forms. Some look outward, turning to the elemental forces. Others turn their minds inward, following the Way. A rare few do both, choosing to delve into the power of their psyche to better understand the elemental forces which they serve. They believe that in enhancing their own psionic abilities, they further the cause of their patron elements. They believe that through self mastery, one can become one with the elemental energy he wields.
Gnostics adventure to improve their understanding of their psyches, their elements, and the link between the two. Gnostics typically care little for material gains, though many take great interest in items imbued with psionic or elemental magical power.
Hit Die: d6.
Requirements
To qualify to become a gnostic, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Skills: Knowledge (religion) 7 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 7 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 7 ranks, Psicraft 7 ranks, Spellcraft 7 ranks. Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells. Psionics: Able to manifest 2nd-level powers. Other: Must worship a patron element.
Class Skills
The gnostic’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features
All the following are class features of the gnostic prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gnostics gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Spells per Day/Powers Known: When a new gnostic level is attained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also attained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in any one manifesting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of either class would have gained (bonus metamagic, metapsionic, or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of gnostic to the level of whatever other divine spellcasting class and manifesting class the character has, then determines spells per day, caster level, power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.
If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class or more than one manifesting class before he became a gnostic, he must decide to which class he adds each level of gnostic for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Turn Undead: As the gnostic is focused on mastering elemental and psionisc energies, his ability to weild those energies to repel undead advances. The gnostic adds his gnostic class levels to his divine manifester levels for all purposes related to turning undead Bonus Feats: At fifth level, the gnostic's persistence in his training grants him Great Fortitude as a bonus feat. At 10th level the gnostic's training grants him a bonus feat. He may choose Practiced Manifester or Practiced Spellcaster. The gnostic must apply this feat to a class whose effective caster/manifester level was increased by his gnostic prestige class. If the gnostic already has both feats, he may choose any metamagic or metapsionic feat instead.
#20terminus_vortexaMay 30, 2006 18:08:03
I like that Gnostic, Radnovius!
#21PennarinMay 30, 2006 19:18:07
Well dha me, never realized the divine classes would also need their own "cerebremancer" so as to compete with dragons and avangions, mechanically. Cool idea. The name is crucial though, it has to loved by the poeple or the class won't be memorable.
#22radnoviusMay 31, 2006 0:23:54
My cheif concern about this PrC at this point is game balance. As it is now the Gnostic continues on as a cleric since he does not lose out on any of the cleric attributes. On the other hand, his psionic side is limited to the energy types he can manifest. Too bad I missed the deadline for the PrC appendix, the muse just hit me today.
These are changes I'm considering: Hit die to d6. As psions have d4 and clerics d8, d6 would be fair. d6 is also the average psionic hit die (psion d4, wilder d6, psychic warrior (PsW) d8).
Make only Will a good save. Both clerics and PsW's have good Fort, but clerics, psions, and wilders have good Will.
Poor BAB progression: Gnostics are so focused on higher consciousness that they neglect physical combat. I think this might deter the PsW from pursuing this PrC.
So what do you think?
#23KamelionMay 31, 2006 1:08:52
So what do you think?
I think that you should take a look at the psychic theurge prestige class that was presented in a Mind's Eye column back in 2004 ;)...
#24radnoviusMay 31, 2006 2:16:36
So they already applied all the nerfs I was considering, but hit die to d4 seems too extreme to me. I think Gnostic is a catchier name though. Also, their class doesn't really limit the manifester side of the character (Gnostics are limitted in enrgies which may be manifested). I think I'll make some alterations to the Gnostic though. Check the description above for revision.
#25radnoviusMay 31, 2006 10:55:47
Another magma outsider, I can't create just one. This is an obsidian ophidian of sorts, and so I named it an obphidian.
Obphidian
Medium-Size Outsider (Fire, Earth, Extraplanar, Psionic) Hit Dice: 5d8+5 (27hp) Initiative: +5 (+1 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) Speed: 20 ft., burrow 20 ft., Climb 15 ft., Swim 15 ft. AC: 23 (+1 Dex, +10 natural, +2 large shield), 10 touch, 22 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+7 Attack: Masterwork obsidian falchion +7 melee (2d4+2/x2), Bite +6 melee (1d6+2/x3 plus 1d4 fire with psiphon), and Constrict +6 grapple( 1d6+2 plus 1d4 fire); or Slam +7 melee (1d6+2 plus 1d4 fire) Full Attack: Masterwork obsidian falchion +7 melee (2d4+2/x2), Bite +6 melee (1d6+2/x3 plus 1d4 fire with psiphon), and Constrict( 1d6+2 plus 1d4 fire); or Slam +7 melee (1d6+2 plus 1d4 fire) Face/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special attacks: Bite, Burn, Constrict, Heat, Improved grab, Psi-like abilities, Slam Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., SR/PR 16, fire immunity, acid immunity, tremmorsense 60 ft., vulnerability to cold Saves: Fort +5, Reflex +5, Will +4 Abilities: Str 15, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14 Skills: Bluff -2, Climb +6, Craft(any one) +8, Concentration +7, Diplomacy -2, Hide +7, Jump +6, Listen +8, Move Silently +9, Search +8, Spot +8, Swim+6 Feats: Alertness, Blind Fight, Improved Initiative, Power Attack
Environment: Elemental Planes of Fire and Earth, Paraelemental Plane of Magma Organization: Solitary, pair, gang (2-4), troupe (5-13 plus an obphidian with at least 2 levels of cleric or wilder), or tribe (30-240 plus 30% non-combatants with a leader of at least 5 levels of cleric or wilder) Challenge Rating: 5 Treasure: Double standard (nonflammables only). Alignment: Any chaotic Advancement: By character class Level adjustment: +4
Obphidians are outsiders native to the Paraelemental Plane of Magma. They have glassy red-black scales which appear to be illuminated from behind, and their eyes resemble white-hot coals. The more empassioned they become, the more brightly their eyes burn and their scales are illuminated. They have a muscular humanoid torso and arms, a cobra-like head with a flared hood, and a snake-like tail instead of legs. The backs of their hoods bear markings which typify their clan. Obphidians speak Volcan and Common, though many learn Ignan or Terran. Obphidians wear clothing only for special rituals, but many carry large shields of bronze or obsidian bearing their hood markings.
Combat
Average obphidians use masterwork obsidian falchions in combat. Obphidians disdain ranged weapons preferring to close the gap between themselves and their oponnents with their slam ability. In addition to their weapon, obphidians often use their bite attacks, coil around their opponents, and constrict them. Obphidians wear no armor as their hard scales provide ample protection.
Obphidians are quick to anger but usually do not attack without provocation (unless they are evil), but once engaged obphidians are quick and deadly adversaries. Acid immunity (Ex): The glassy scales of the obphidian are inert and unaffected by acid. Bite: An obphidian’s bite deals 1d6 damage. On a successful bite an obphidian may stay latched on. It inflicts no more damage but may maintain its psiphon ability. Burn (Ex): When an obphidian hits with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed on a DC 12 Reflex save or catch fire. The save DC is Constitution-based. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds if not extinguished sooner. A burning creature can use a full-round action to put out the flame. Constrict (Ex): An obphidian deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage against medium or smaller creatures.
Fire Subtype (Ex): Fire immunity, cold vulnerability. Heat (Ex): Obphidians’ bodies are extremely hot, so their unarmed attacks deal an additional 1d4 points of fire damage. Improved Grab (Ex): An obphidian who makes a successful bite may constrict an opponent. Psi-like abilities (Ps): at will – produce acid (the obphidian excudes acid from its body dealing 1d6 acid damage to anything it touches, the acid becomes inert if it leaves the obphidian’s body), Psiphon (On a successful bite attack the obphidian drains 1d6 power points/round from his opponent and gains one of those, Will save DC 10+ obphidian’s HD. This save is Charisma based.)
Obphidian Society
Obphidians have a tribal society, with each tribe having a small village, though many strike out on their own. Obphidian tribes are ruled by the most powerful female of the tribe (typically a cleric or wilder). Their chaotic nature prevents them from forming cities. Obphidians honor personal achievements and worship powerful denizens of the Paraelemental Plane of Magma. Obphidians’ favored class is wilder, though many are barbarians, bards, fighters, rangers, psychic warriors, rogues, or magma clerics. Obphidians are despised by ozars and azers, whose jewels obphidians delight in stealing. Obphidians are sometimes summoned to Athas by use of elemental summoning spells.
Obphidians As Characters
Obphidian characters possess the following racial traits.
— +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma
—Medium size.
—An obphidian’s base land speed is 20 feet.
—Darkvision: Obphidians can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
—Tremmorsense: Obphidians can sense the location of anything within 60 feet that is in contact with the ground.
—Naturally Psionic: Obphidians gain 5 bonus power points at 1st level.
—Racial Hit Dice: An obphidian begins with five levels of outsider, which provide 5d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +5, a bonus ability point, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +4, and Will +4.
—Racial Skills: An obphidian’s outsider levels give it skill points equal to 8 x (8 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Craft, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot and Swim.
—Racial Feats: An obphidian’s outsider levels give it two feats. It also gets Alertness and Blind-Fighting as bonus feats.
— +10 natural armor bonus.
—Special Attacks (see above): Bite, Burn, Constrict, Heat, Improved grab, Psi-like abilities, Slam.
—Special Qualities (see above): Immunity to fire, immunity to acid, spell resistance equal to 16 + class levels, tremmorsense 60 ft., vulnerability to cold.
—Emotive: Obphidians have difficulty hiding their emotions. They suffer a -4 racial penalty to Bluff and Diplomacy checks. Creatures using Sense Motive on an obphidian gain a +4 bonus.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Volcan. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Imbran, Infernal, Pulvan, Solan, Terran.
—Favored Class: Wilder
—Level adjustment +4.
#26radnoviusJun 02, 2006 22:23:14
First crack at the Volcanic Vapor Metaelemental. I'll have to figure out some better wat to display it though.
Volcanic Vapor Metaelemental
#27radnoviusJun 16, 2006 20:53:28
I've altered the Gnostic. Let me know what you think. I may alter it again once I've gotten the Complete Divine. I'm working on Paraelemental Stewards.
#28radnoviusJun 16, 2006 21:50:40
So I now have the Complete Psionic, and while they have elemental stewards, they have no
paraelemental stewards.
Magmite
Small Elemental (Fire, Earth, Extraplanar, Psionic) Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 30 ft., burrow 10 ft., Swim* 20 ft. AC: 17 (+7 natural), 10 touch, 17 flat-footed Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-1 Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d4+3 plus 1d4 fire) Full Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d4+3 plus 1d4 fire) Face/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special attacks: Heat, Burn, Psi-like abilities, Slam Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., fire immunity, acid immunity, vulnerability to cold Saves: Fort +4, Reflex +1, Will +3 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 12 Skills: Concentration +7, Intimidation +7, Listen +0, Psicraft +7, Spot +0, Swim* +10 Feats: Combat Manifestation, Improved Natural Attack, Power Attack
Environment: Paraelemental Plane of Magma Challenge Rating: 2 Treasure: As elemental steward.
*Magmites may swim in magma.
Red-orange topaz veins run through the flame-wreathed obsidian body of this little humanoid-shaped elemental. Its topaz eyes seem sparkle as though each contained a fire of its own.
Magmites inhabit the Paraelemental Plane of Magma, where they spend their days swimming and surfing the seas and rivers of magma. Though generally ill-tempered, magmites enjoy contemplating and navigating the tides and currents of magma. Magmites speak Common and Volcan, though many also speak Ignan and Terran.
Strategies and Tactics
Magmites are generally unfriendly but usually do not attack without provocation, though once engaged they are ruthless adversaries. They often begin with their energy ray, and follow up with stomp to knock their opponents off their feet. They then use skate to glide among their adversaries, igniting opponents with their slam attacks. Another favorite strategy is to use its burrowing ability to escape its foes, only to pop up in an ambush a round or two later. Burn (Ex): When a magmite hits with its slam attack, the opponent must succeed on a DC 12 Reflex save or catch fire. The save DC is Constitution-based. The flame burns for 1d4 rounds if not extinguished sooner. A burning creature can use a full-round action to put out the flame. Heat (Ex): Magmites’ bodies are extremely hot, so their unarmed attacks deal an additional 1d4 points of fire damage. Psi-like abilities (Ps): (ML 2) 2/day – energy ray (fire, +2 ranged touch, 2d6+2 damage), stomp, skate
Ecology
Magmites dwell together in small communities. They get along well with other magma paraelemental creatures. They create complex dwellings in the islands of igneous rock that float through the Paraelemental Plane of Magma. They usually satisfy their requirement for nourishment with large draughts of of magma. Typical Physical Characteristics: A magmite is about 3-1/2 feet tall and weighs from 35 to 45 pounds.
#29radnoviusJun 18, 2006 2:24:59
This feat was inspired by the Aeclid PrC.
Caustic Potency
Acid you produce is more caustic than most. Prerequisite: Con 15, Ability to naturally produce acid Benefit: Your acid deals an extra die of damage. If your acid attack normally deals splash damage, splash damage is increased by 2 points.
#30radnoviusJun 20, 2006 2:14:03
New PrC for those pursuing advanced beinghood.
Transcendent Scholar “Knowledge is the key to transcending this mortal coil.” – Seph, transcendent scholar
The transcendent scholar is a spellcasting manifester obsessed with the study of advanced beings. His ultimate goal is the fusion of magic and psionics with his being to ascend to the status of advanced being. While any spellcaster/manifester combination may pursue this class, the single-minded obsession is most common among power-hungry defiler/psions of all races, noble preserver/psions, and focused dwarven earth cleric/psions.
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become a transcendent scholar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Skills: Gather Information 5 ranks, Decipher Script 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcane or religion) 10 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 10 ranks, Psicraft 5 ranks, Spellcraft 10 ranks. Feats: Focused Skill User [Knowledge (arcane or religion), Knowledge (psionics), Spellcraft]. Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level spells. Psionics: Able to manifest 3rd-level powers. Other: Must be literate in at least one language.
Class Skills
The transcendent scholar’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (arcane) (Int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge(the planes) (Int), Literacy (none), Psicraft (Int), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Transcendent scholars gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor. Spells per Day/Powers Known: At first and third level the transcendent scholar gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in any one manifesting class he belonged to previously. At second and fourth level the transcendent scholar gains.new spells per day as if he had also attained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of either class would have gained (bonus metamagic, metapsionic, or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that when a transcendent scholar adds a level of spellcasting class or manifesting class, add the level to the base class level to determine spells per day, caster level, power points per day, powers known, and manifester level.
If a character had more than one spellcasting class or more than one manifesting class before he became a transcendent scholar, he must decide to which class he adds at each level of transcendent scholar for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Ascendant Lore: The transcendent scholar has studied advanced beings. He gains +2 x his transcendent scholar level as a competency bonus to any check concerned with advanced beings using his class skills. Transcendent Focus: The transcendent scholar receives a +1 morale bonus on all checks directly related to their field of study or goal of becoming and advancing as an advanced being. This includes a skill bonus, an attack bonus, a damage bonus, or a saving throw bonus, or even a bonus to manifestation or spell save DCs. This bonus stacks with the bonus bestowed by the dwarven racial focus. Once the transcendent scholar reaches the 10th level of the Advanced being PrC, thereby satisfying this focus, he loses the benefit of the focus but gains a bonus psionic enchantment.
Should a transcendent scholar die before completing his focus, he becomes the bane of whomever else would follow his course. He gains the dwarven banshee template with some modifications. His focus changes to destroying all manifesters who share his base spell-casting class. He also gains ability drain for the key atribute of his base spellcasting class. Epiphany: The transcendent scholar gains 4 ranks in any one of his class skills. He may not exceed the maximum rank for his character level. Bonus Feats: The transcendent scholar gains a bonus metapsionic feat at third level and a bonus metamagic feat at fourth level. He may take any feat for which he meets the prerequisites. Transcendent Spellcrafting: The transcendent scholar adds his Knowledge (psionics) ranks to his Knowledge (arcane or religion) ranks and his Psicraft ranks to his Spellcraft ranks for all checks concerning the research and crafting of spells.
#31xlorepdarkhelm_dupJun 20, 2006 9:34:59
I've added a number of abilities. The basic thought is that the restrictions severely limit the versatility of the psionics. Thus, they have additional benefits from the Psychic Theurge PrC. I've revised it yet again. Let me know what you think Note: The rationale for sonic instead of acid is that it is the energy related to earth in the Complete Psionic and is used by Geodites (Earth Elemental Stewards).
I want to mention that your Gnostic is really, really powerful, at first glance. Not only does it get +1 spellcaster/+1 manifester levels each level like the Cerebrmancer & Mystic Theurge, it also gets a special class-specific bonus each level, making it easily unbalanced and probably overpowered.
#32radnoviusJun 20, 2006 12:14:58
The bonuses are very limitted in and of themselves. Also, the restrictions imposed seem pretty heavy. Kineticists going down the path become severely limited as their powers are essentially reduced by 3/4 (they can no longer manifest energies other than their foused one). They also lose access to a number of other powers. Furthermore, their benefits are somewhat limitted. Even so I may nix the bonus feats and add the following at fifth level:
Envoy Affinity: At fifth level, the gnostic's progress earns him the respect of elemental envoy communities of his patron plane. For the gnostic, Psicrystal Affinity is no longer a requirement for Elemental Envoy and Envoy Cognizance. A gnostic may add his his gnostic level and gnosis bonus to his manifester level for determining his envoy's abilities.
I am also considering the following:
1. Restriction: When a psion attains access to a new power level he must take a power from his gnosis list before taking any other powers of that level.
2. Restriction: When a character adds a level of gnostic he must select a power from his gnosis list or a power he has researched employing his patron element/energy.
3. Focused Knowledge: A character takes his gnosis bouns as a penalty to Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge(psionics), Knowledge(religion), Psicraft, and Spellcraft when dealing spells, powers, and effects related to restricted energies/elements. A gnostic is unable to research new spells or powers based upon restriced energies/elements. A gnostic takes his gnosis bouns as a penalty to Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge(psionics), Knowledge(religion), Psicraft, and Spellcraft when researching spells, powers, and effects not related to his patron element.
#33xlorepdarkhelm_dupJun 20, 2006 13:33:15
I personally think that it becomes overly complicated at that point. The Mystic Theurge, Cerebrmancer, and the Psychic Theurge are simple and direct to the point. They should be used (especially he first two) as examples for how to make a single class get either divine & arcane spellcasting levels, or spellcasting & manifesting levels together. They don't get any other class benefits every level, because honestly, that is a pretty powerful package compared to other characters their respective levels. Granting anyone the ability to cast in 2 different areas (divine & arcane) or to manifest & cast, with an increase in spellcaster and/or manifester levels each level, then tacking on any other additional features is in itself already broken and imbalanced.
#34radnoviusJun 20, 2006 16:06:37
I personally think that it becomes overly complicated at that point. The Mystic Theurge, Cerebrmancer, and the Psychic Theurge are simple and direct to the point. They should be used (especially he first two) as examples for how to make a single class get either divine & arcane spellcasting levels, or spellcasting & manifesting levels together. They don't get any other class benefits every level, because honestly, that is a pretty powerful package compared to other characters their respective levels. Granting anyone the ability to cast in 2 different areas (divine & arcane) or to manifest & cast, with an increase in spellcaster and/or manifester levels each level, then tacking on any other additional features is in itself already broken and imbalanced.
I don't think its as simple as that. With psychic theurge (which I think is weaker than cerebremancer), it is simply +1 manifester/divine caster level with no restrictions. So you have earth cleric/kineticists using fiery discorporation and the like. With what I am proposing for the gnostic is to gain a full caster level + a limitted manifester level. Just by taking a single level of gnostic he is cutting himself off from multiple powers, not just for the purpose of the level but ever. This acts to limit all of his previous manifester levels as well. Thus, a gnostic gives up much of the versatility of his prior psionic class levels and is more limited in scope of psionic power than the psychic theurge. It is more complicated, but it acts to better customize the character and provide a more theme-based class, which is the essence of the PrC system.
The psychic theurge, which I'm not sure is even considered an official class is already broken if compared to the cerebremancer. Divine spells and progression are different than arcane spells/progression. As such clerics receive superior Fort saves, hit dice, and BAB. For 10 levels of cerebremancer, the only thing lost from the wizard class is 2 bonus feats and familiar enhancement. For psychic theurge, the cleric gives up 0-40 hit points, +2 BAB and a second attack at +2, +4 Fortitude save.
#35xlorepdarkhelm_dupJun 20, 2006 16:28:27
Show me an example, just one example of a prestige class which conforms to the D&D 3.5E standards for the d20 system which allows +1 spellcaster/+1 manifester (or +1 arcane spellcaster/+1 divine spellcaster) each level, and also has additional class special features being gained. When you can do that, then I might see your argument. Right now, it seems you are pointing at trivialities to justify what basically looks like an easily overly-powerful and exploitable class. If you like it, great. Right now, I don't think I'd go anywhere near it personally, because it is just too over the top and does not balance with characters of equal level who don't have it.
#36brun01Jun 20, 2006 18:05:03
Radnovius, your idea is good, but I think you would make a more balanced and unique class if, instead of making a "improved psychic theurge", you simply made something in the likes of the divine mind, from Complete Psionic, maybe giving less auras and/or mantles and more spellcasting/manifesting abilities...
Just a thought.
#37radnoviusJun 20, 2006 19:55:21
Radnovius, your idea is good, but I think you would make a more balanced and unique class if, instead of making a "improved psychic theurge", you simply made something in the likes of the divine mind, from Complete Psionic, maybe giving less auras and/or mantles and more spellcasting/manifesting abilities...
Just a thought.
Hmmmm . . That is an interesting idea, the elemental mind. I hadn't approached it from the point of view of having it be a single class. I don't really think that it would be accepted any more than the gnostic, though only xlorepdarkhelm has commented on it so far. I'd like some more input. The other problem is that mechnically, base class combinations limit psionics to level 6 and divine spellcasting to level 4.
I thought of doing a PrC along those lines originally but thought it would be much more complicated. My goals for the gnostic were:
A. Present a balanced divine version of the cerebremancer. I've already commented in length of why the cerebremancer is more powerful than the psychic theurge.
B. Present a thematic PrC specializing in a particular elemental energy.
I do think that as is the PrC might be a little too powerful and may tweak it a bit more. I was checking over my logic before andd found at least one error. Limiting a characters versatility seems to me an adequate way to compensate for granting additional abilities. I also don't think that one can look at the PrC in a void. The gnostic restrictions as I have them diminish the manifester base class features as well.
Show me an example, just one example of a prestige class which conforms to the D&D 3.5E standards for the d20 system which allows +1 spellcaster/+1 manifester (or +1 arcane spellcaster/+1 divine spellcaster) each level, and also has additional class special features being gained. When you can do that, then I might see your argument. Right now, it seems you are pointing at trivialities to justify what basically looks like an easily overly-powerful and exploitable class. If you like it, great. Right now, I don't think I'd go anywhere near it personally, because it is just too over the top and does not balance with characters of equal level who don't have it.
A valid point. I must admit that I haven't seen a lot of classes that do this. So far I've only come across the cerebremancer, mystic theurge, and psychic theurge that combines two of the three abilities. My counter would be show me an example, just one example of a class which conforms to the D&D 3.5E standards for the d20 system and which imposes a restriction without compensating with a benefit.
#38xlorepdarkhelm_dupJun 20, 2006 21:04:12
A valid point. I must admit that I haven't seen a lot of classes that do this. So far I've only come across the cerebremancer, mystic theurge, and psychic theurge that combines two of the three abilities. My counter would be show me an example, just one example of a class which conforms to the D&D 3.5E standards for the d20 system and which imposes a restriction without compensating with a benefit.
Your benefit is currently much greater than the restriction. That would be like giving someone a million dollars to open one door for you. The thing is -- simply the spellcaster level & manifester level, despite the access to specific spells or powers, is a very, *very* powerful benefit, as it alters and improves ALL spellcasting (or manifesting), makes your spells or powers harder to resist, and makes you overall increase in capability, even if you don't get any more powers or spells. Giving someone access to that, from both magic & psionics, or from both branches of magic, and then stacking other benefits, no matter how seemingly minute (and you can't compensate or predict all of the ways people can exploit this) will produce an unbalanced character.
#39radnoviusJun 20, 2006 22:03:10
Your benefit is currently much greater than the restriction. That would be like giving someone a million dollars to open one door for you. The thing is -- simply the spellcaster level & manifester level, despite the access to specific spells or powers, is a very, *very* powerful benefit, as it alters and improves ALL spellcasting (or manifesting), makes your spells or powers harder to resist, and makes you overall increase in capability, even if you don't get any more powers or spells. Giving someone access to that, from both magic & psionics, or from both branches of magic, and then stacking other benefits, no matter how seemingly minute (and you can't compensate or predict all of the ways people can exploit this) will produce an unbalanced character.
That argument alone would suggest that the Dragon PrC is unbalanced. I think that your arguments are sound and that I should rework the class. I'll agree that perhaps as written the abilities are too powerful given the restrictions.
I think what WoTC should do is come up with a create a class worksheet like in 2e. Everything hit die, proficiency access, special abilities all got a number of points. A certain number of points was a standard class.
#40xlorepdarkhelm_dupJun 20, 2006 23:39:00
That argument alone would suggest that the Dragon PrC is unbalanced. I think that your arguments are sound and that I should rework the class. I'll agree that perhaps as written the abilities are too powerful given the restrictions.
Actually, the Dragon PrC doesn't give +1 spellcaster/+1 manifester level every level, it alternates. Further, the dynamics of a character's development significantly change from level 21+, so there is a bit more flexibility. And finally -- the physical alterations are actually the by-products of the spells, rather than the PrC.
I think what WoTC should do is come up with a create a class worksheet like in 2e. Everything hit die, proficiency access, special abilities all got a number of points. A certain number of points was a standard class.
Well.... to quote the WotC developers, class creation is still more of an art than a science.
#41radnoviusJun 21, 2006 2:42:10
Maybe I dont have the most current dragon then. Is there a newer one than rev 3 that I missed. It has a dragon gaining it at every level but the first.
Anyways, while I conceptually rework the gnostic, why don't you take a look at the Transcendent Scholar PrC. I feel fairly confident about most of the abilities/levels, except maybe the Transcendent Spellcrafting. I'm thinking of altering that to +1/2 the psionic ranks instead of the full amount.
#42terminus_vortexaJun 21, 2006 15:45:15
Xlorep is incorrect. The Dragon PrC gives an effective spellcaster level and an effective manifester level with every level of the PrC, except the first.
#43PennarinJun 21, 2006 18:20:50
Why was the truncated progression droped, Cliff?
#44xlorepdarkhelm_dupJun 21, 2006 22:47:40
I forget. Been so many revisions of that thing tossed around, I had forgotten we did that. Guess I need to dig through my old e-mails and see if I can recall the rationale. Might have been something I pushed through, actually :P.
But, of course, once again, when looking at Dragons, you must pay attention to the spell and the PrC development side-by-side. The PrC alone is incomplete, and the spells alone are incomplete. Some of the balancing we did makes it work out when you use both parts together, otherwise you can get rather... intriguing results.
#45radnoviusJul 25, 2006 16:06:01
I've been away for a bit, bogged down in work. Congrats on getting the Avangion out. I haven't gotten to take much of a look at it yet.
I've gotten Sandstorm, Complete Arcane, and Complete Divine. I will probably be reworking my volcanic gas-based creatures. The Quasielemental Cleric PrC is still in the works, as is my nasty defiler-eating plant creature. I will post as I get them completed. Posts will probably be a bit scarce until I defend my dissertation next month.
#46xlorepdarkhelm_dupJul 25, 2006 16:52:33
Why was the truncated progression droped, Cliff?
The truincated progression was granting full, normal advancement in the spellcaster/manifester levels, like how the Cerebrmancer does it. The modified progression we do falls more into how epic spellcasters/manifesters advance their respective levels -- they don't gain new spells, powers, spell slots, etc. Only the spellcaster/manifester level for the purposes of the level-connected effects of spells & powers.
#47xlorepdarkhelm_dupJul 25, 2006 16:55:50
I've been away for a bit, bogged down in work. Congrats on getting the Avangion out. I haven't gotten to take much of a look at it yet.
Bear in mind that it isn't complete, and the reason we released it in the state it currently is, is for feedback and suggestions from the community, which those of us that check the forums (like Jon, seker, myself, etc.) are putting these ideas up to the Epic Bureau to be reviewed and used in finishing them. There have been a great many good ideas that have come from the Avangion Feedback thread on the topic. And a number of controversial discussions which have been, I think in the end, rather helpful.
#48zombiegleemaxJul 27, 2006 8:17:24
For what it's worth, I like your Gnostic PrC. I was thinking I could apply it an NPC. When I checked over the details again, I was a little surprised to see all the extra abilities besides the +1 spellcasting/manifestor level. I had it in mind they must lose turn undead abilities or something else to balance with the cerebremancer and other such PrC types. Imposing the restrictions could be a way to balance things, though I think it gets a little too complicated with multiple restrictions and multiple added benefits.
I'd favour seeing a trimmed down, simpler version so that its not too hard to weigh up whether its overpowered or not.
I wouldn't compare this type of PrC with that of the Dragon PrC. I guess I allow the Dragons special consideration due to the combination of psionics and arcane magic being the most powerful force that should be available in DS.
Maybe some of these extra Gnostic abilities could surface later when such a character progresses on to become an elemental ascendant??
#49radnoviusJul 28, 2006 17:22:37
I think your right. I like some of the thematic powers I invented but the gnostic is too complicated. I've revised it and simplified it. I plan on using some of those thematic powers in different PrC's.
I still wanted to balance some of the losses from cleric. I've kept d6 hit dice. Divine spellcaster level increases are not equivalent to arcane spellcaster increases. As such I allowed the persistence of the turn undead ability. This makes sense since the gnostic is focused on knowledge and weilding of energies. To balance out the loss of combat ability and good fortitude saves I've added Great Fortitude and one other bonus feat from a limitted list. Let me know what you think.
I've thought about requiring certain psionic powers to be known depending upon the patron element though again that may overcomplicate the class.
#50radnoviusJan 07, 2007 20:09:01
Side-tracked by life but hopefully I'll get some time to continue to contribute.
#51ZardnaarJan 07, 2007 23:14:14
Show me an example, just one example of a prestige class which conforms to the D&D 3.5E standards for the d20 system which allows +1 spellcaster/+1 manifester (or +1 arcane spellcaster/+1 divine spellcaster) each level, and also has additional class special features being gained. When you can do that, then I might see your argument. Right now, it seems you are pointing at trivialities to justify what basically looks like an easily overly-powerful and exploitable class. If you like it, great. Right now, I don't think I'd go anywhere near it personally, because it is just too over the top and does not balance with characters of equal level who don't have it.
Arcane Hierophant from Races of the Wild. Druid/Wizard multiclass PrC that has full spellcasting in both arcane/divine and has additional class features. Make a good Preserver/Druid PrC for Darksun as well. Theres a few more as well but I don't currently have access to my D&D library as the books are packed away. The Mystic Theurge and Cerebremancer are pathetically weak PrCs that are barely worth taking and I would say unplayable although the Cerebremancer is the better of the 2 since both classes already have d4 HD and Psion/Wiz both use Intelligence for spells/powers and you won't have armor issues like the Mystic Theurge. The dual manifesting/spellcasting PrCs need a slight powerbump IMHO as losing 3 caster/manifesting levels and MAD is crippling.