Ideas of mine include:
A write up on each race, including stats and culture, and how they fought back in response.
A write up on each Army, including culture, how they fought, and stats on important NPC's (champions and their commanders)
A write up on technology and magic/psionic items of the time.
New feats for the time.
New PrC's for both the cleanser and cleansee.
A brief History, taken from the offical timeline and fleshed out a bit.
I am open to any ideas, and would love to include any information that people currently have out there. Kal has a PrC he just put up that would be great, as well as the Twilight Soldier that we put up. I know that people have done various things, and that of course there will be disagreements on certain things. As far as stats for the various Champions, I am open to any ideas that are out there, and would probably make them underpowered, so that they can be built up if desired (they are pre-rebellion at this point). Anyway, this is the plan, and I hope to have it mostly finished by the end of the summer. All help will be greatly welcomed. I have brought this up before, and interest has dwindled. Hopefully putting my ideas out there to be chewed up and improved upon will help. I have been scouring the boards looking for info that is out there already, but I will be asking permission from the authors of things before I include it.
I've got an obsession with unarmed combat tactics as well as military tactics, but there are always people that know more then you. So i'll help any way possible if asked. Actually, i was just writing a thread about military tactics and to see how many people agreed and what people would put in.
The world has always been psionic (with the exception of the halflings) since the fall of the blue age, i doubt that there is really a time when the dwarves did not have the ability to be psionic and weren't (considering this is a high psionic world).
A second note to consider might be...well, the dreugar from seperate campaign settings are bald and they are psionic. Perhaps it is just the dwarven genes that make all of their hair fall otu when they are psionic.
i could see a focus being developed as the dwarves were driven to survival and their minds manifested themselves that way...just a thought...but...whatever
just ask for help and i'll do my best...i'll be workin' on it anyways
If you are interested, check it out here.
I hope to revise this and a few other pieces of writing I have done sometime within the next month or two.
I'm trying to flesh out this era as well as the Green Age as a whole with the series of short stories I want to write about Rajaat, but that's been put on hold for a bit.
If you are interested, check it out here.
I hope to revise this and a few other pieces of writing I have done sometime within the next month or two.
I checked out the story, and it is perfect (barring any editting you want/need to do). I was thinking about this project as I was falling asleep last night and realized that it was increadibly massive. Even if we have just five pages per cleansed race, and five pages per cleansing army, that gives us 150 pages. this doens't include a magic/psionic item section, NPC's stated out, or any PrC's. Plus I am guessing very little flavor text. Reading Nyt's story made me think though. When putting this together, I think that it would be best to have everything about the races and armies written from the point of veiw of one of their members. Could be the king of the Elves for the elves, or a sage or historian for the orcs, but definately the Champions themselves for the armies. So looking at this project, if we want a good smattering of things, icluding up to 10 PrC's and a good section of items and feats, then it's looking to be at least 200 pages. Which means... it's gunna take a while, even with help. anyway, just my initial thoughts.
It might be interesting to have some subraces that didn't make it. Or to have some traits come into being becuase of the Cleansing wars. For instance, perhaps before dwarves were hairy and had no focus. Some then became special psionic PrC was developed where some were changed and were given a focus. Dwarves who were of this PrC had a survival bonus, and as their lineage grew, dwarves became a focused hairless race. (Just a rough idea).
IIRC there's a scene from the Prism Pentad, I think when Rikus finds himself inside Borys' tomb, where dwarves are depicted as having beards and such.
In other news, I've got some random stuff regarding the Cleansing Wars that I've used for my campaigns that I can post and/or email to ya cnahumck. My last campaign had a lot to do with the "high elves" (as opposed to the forest/wild elves that eventually became the elves of modern-day Athas) and their part in the CW), and my current one involves both the modern-day affairs of those high elves that survived away from the Tyr region (...if any of my players are reading this, FORGET THAT I JUST SAID THAT) as well as the gnomes...so that's some more material you might be able to incorporate.
I've also got my own ideas on Borys and Andropinis (my two favorite Champions) so I can throw those in as well, if you want.
IIRC there's a scene from the Prism Pentad, I think when Rikus finds himself inside Borys' tomb, where dwarves are depicted as having beards and such.
In other news, I've got some random stuff regarding the Cleansing Wars that I've used for my campaigns that I can post and/or email to ya cnahumck. My last campaign had a lot to do with the "high elves" (as opposed to the forest/wild elves that eventually became the elves of modern-day Athas) and their part in the CW), and my current one involves both the modern-day affairs of those high elves that survived away from the Tyr region (...if any of my players are reading this, FORGET THAT I JUST SAID THAT) as well as the gnomes...so that's some more material you might be able to incorporate.
I've also got my own ideas on Borys and Andropinis (my two favorite Champions) so I can throw those in as well, if you want.
Sounds good. personally I would avoid using subraces, as I think that each race should have it's own unique spin. But having a group of elves that are "high elves" and are more seafaring or something could be cool. I will definately take any ideas about any champions (even those that failed
) but please remember one thing: this is during the cleansing wars, so I am thinking they should have just entered the epic category, so nothing above 23rd level I would think. If that high. Maybe just 21st. still debating.IIRC there's a scene from the Prism Pentad, I think when Rikus finds himself inside Borys' tomb, where dwarves are depicted as having beards and such.
Similar pictures decorate the interior of Kemalok.
Sounds good. personally I would avoid using subraces, as I think that each race should have it's own unique spin. But having a group of elves that are "high elves" and are more seafaring or something could be cool. I will definately take any ideas about any champions (even those that failed
...I was going to post a bunch of stuff here, but then I realized that it's all going to get erased. So I'll email ya instead.
As for the Champions, I made Borys as a fairly even-leveled Psychic Warrior/Ardent/Defiler as his beginning levels, and from there he goes on to take up Spellsword, Cerebromancer, and Arch Defiler levels. Basically, in my history, he started out as an Ardent/Psychic Warrior who had it out for the dwarves long before Rajaat even began the war, and so started learning magic as soon as he learned about it, as he figured it was one more way to get back at the pesky stumpies he disliked so much. Rajaat sees his potential right away, and thus takes him "under his wing" as the first real Champion, even before he's fully developed the idea of the Cleansing Wars - in other words, Borys, in a sense, helped solidify Rajaat's idea to start the war, took part in picking the other Champions, etc...which is why he ends up becoming the Dragon, as he was basically the "ring leader" of the Champions to begin with and so they all respected him, in their own twisted ways, for it. Being an Ardent, with both their strong beliefs and ability to change them, is also another reason why he took up the cause so easily, and why he led the Rebellion - for the various reasons his outlook on life and the war changed, and so as an Ardent he "switched focus".
Andropinis I picture as a conniving seer to begin with, an Erudite by trade but one which was big into clairsentient powers and who did his best to learn as many powers as he could, as soon as possible. Being a plotter, he saw the war on the horizon before many others did, and went out of his way to seek out Rajaat (more or less - he knew what he was looking for, but not who). So he ends up being one of the first Champions after Borys, but he really only cares about power - yes, he dislikes elves (and the other races) for whatever reason, but before the war it's primarily a means to the end of attaining much power. As the war progresses and the elves prove to be one of the most fearsom of the New Races to take out, he ends up developing a full-blown hatred of them. When the Rebellion happens, however, he sees it in his best interest to go along with things and secure power for himself. His only major folly was thinking that Borys, whom he considers an ally even after the rebellion and S-K's establish themselves, would accept less than a full 1000 slaves (can't remember when that happens...it's somewhere in the timeline).
Also, something to note - I don't consider the Champion's particular # to mean anything, really...Borys was given #13 not because he was the 13th individual to join the Champions, but because of whatever chaotic numbering scheme Rajaat used when assigning races to each of the Champions. Based on the numbers and their targets, I just don't see any real rhyme or reason to the numbering system...theoretically it's based on what order he actually picked the champions in, but I find it hard to believe that Kalak and Myron would have been "top picks" as it were, and although it may have been chosen based on how easily Rajaat figured it'd be to get humans involved in the fight (which is why kobolds, ogres, and other "evil" humanoids are first), the fact that goblins come in at 14th (IIRC) sort of kills that idea. If anything I think Rajaat, being the chaotic evil creature he is, just wrote down a list of the main races he wanted to destroy, gave each a number based purely on where on his list they were (he just happened to forget about Goblins until someone mentioned it to him, at which point in time he smiles and writes them down as #14), and then just chose whichever of his chosen to-be-Champions he felt was the most appropriate to go after them. For some the choice was obvious, given their personal racial dislikes, while for others it was an "eh, you'll do just fine" thing.
(Yea, that last paragraph is another rambling monologue...so sue me)
It occurred to me that the races may have been numbered in order (or reverse order) of appearance. Perhaps 1st to be generated first to die (or conversely the newest die first). Just a thought.
Possibly, although that'd make kobolds or wemics the first which sounds strange to me.
Another idea I just had is that maybe it was based on population count...except that then you wind up with a whole lot of kobolds but more elves and dwarves than goblins which is plain silly if you ask me.
Looks like a really interesting supplement, really looking forward to seeing it.
Wemics
Looking at the creature from races of faerun (as well as monsters of faerun) and they are basically TOUGH STUFF! Looking at all of the statistics and proficiencies of the wemics, then comparing it to the fighting style of the draji elite, i've come up with something which might give the wemics on Athas a little bit more roar (literally)
[WEMIC, ATHASIAN
Medium Aberration (Psionic)
Hit Dice: 5d8+15
Initiative: +4 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
AC: 20 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +6 natural, +1 small wooden shield), touch 13, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+16
Attacks: Claw +11 melee (1d6+7) or Half-spear +11 Melee (1d8+7) or Half-Spear +9 ranged (1d8+7)
Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee (1d6+3) and Half-spear +11 melee (1d8+7)
Face/Reach: 10 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Pounce, improved grab, rake 1d6+3, psi-like abilities
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, naturally psionic, Roar
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +13
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12
Skills: Working on it
Feats: Alertness, Run, Improved Natural Weapon (claw)
Environment: Plains or Scrub plains
Organization: Solitary, pride (2-16), or trive (20-200 including 2-8 subchiefs of 2nd-5th level, an psion of 4th-7th level, anda chief of 5th-8th level)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: No coins; double goods and items (universal items only)
Alignment: Usually Neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +5
Working on it
Rough stuff - used Kal's athasian lion as base creature - going to work on it more...but i need to move on...too much about stat blocks for one night, onto the fluff
Combat
Pounce (Ex): If an Athasian lion charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an Athasian lion must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.
Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +9 melee, damage 1d6+3.
Psi-like Abilities (Sp): The following abilities are all manifested as a 5th level manifester; 3/day each offensive precognition (+3 insight bonus), thought shield (PR 15 for 3 rounds), wild leap (ds)(+10 to jump check), and 1/day force screen (+5 shield bonus to AC).
Naturally Psionic: An Athasian lion has 1 bonus power point
Skills: Athasian lions have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Hide, and Move Silently checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +13.
Need to alter the abilities including roar (similar to dragons fightful presence) i'll find a pic or draw one up (yes i'm not that bad of an artist...)
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The next little section is theories about how the Draji would approach such a beast, how they would go about killing them...
Basic outline of Tactics -
Wemics -
concentrate on open war tactics, but almost always go for the ambush. Like the lions, they stalk their prey until the time is right to strike. Psions would dominate cats (lions) to help them in their task. Able to sew fear through the ranks of the opposing army as they would charge, frightening opponents, causing them to route and lead to eventual death by the wemics. With their fear powers as well as domination abilities, as well as impressive melee prowess (with some preservers) these nomadic beings were able to defeat their foes time and time again...until good ol' tec
Draji -
Difficult sneaking up on quick, always armed, ever moving opponents. Draji labeled these terms as cowardly, boosting morale amongst the troops that these tactics are meant for the weak. How to take away their cowardly tactics...defilers. not only gaining powers from the fertile land, they rip the ability to hide in it from the wemics. Arrow knights would then procede to eliminate from afar. The Draji understood grappling with such a creature would be foolish, but possibly necessary to survive. throw conscripts out at first as decoys while arrow knights shoot from afar until eagle knights and jaguar knights set in to finish the job. Jaguar knights would spread panic amongst the Wemics with their jaguar roar as they would proceed to attack the wemic whom as flat footed. Realizing the danger of such a beast grappling them, they proceded with reckless abandon, swinging as hard as they could before the wemics could engage them.
Any thoughts, please share
The wemics would wear no armor while the draji would wear cord with obsidian glued all over the exterior (to damage the wemics grappling them)
MASSIVE amounts of land were drained away in the hunt for wemics. I believe brian has the "sand of bones' region mapped out with nothing more then sundried bones and sand dunes. can't remember where it is...but i thought i remembered something like that.
I suppose it would make sense if large portions of each SKs army settled in their new city-state meaning what we know of modern Draji could be largely reflective of Teck's army during the wars, but I don't think at the time they would've been considered Draji necessarily.
Just a thought. Otherwise it's looking nice.
Hamanu did, because he already was finished with trolls. Dregoth because he wanted to, and his city was on the shores of his enemy's homes anyway. Kalak because he took care of his cleansed race, like Hamanu did.
These are the only ones I've seen referenced as living in cities before the rebellion. All others took up a city to barricade themselves and a small portion of humanity from the Dragon's rampages.
The wemics would wear no armor while the draji would wear cord with obsidian glued all over the exterior (to damage the wemics grappling them)
QUOTE]
It was my understanding that during the cleansing wars metal was still quite available. Thus it would seem more likely that they'd wear somethiing like the Gutbuster Brigade's armor from Forgotten Realms.
In my campaign kalak is not my champion, but Irikos...but no thread hijacking
The cities do make sense about how you stated that he only took it after the cleansing wars. You state that Hamanu claimed urik because he finished his cleansing. Would it not be similar logic to place good ol' teck in the same boat? However, i'm not arguing in any way and i'm very greatful for the much needed criticism as i am guessing you are all more experienced then i am. What i meant about the Draji was the future inhabitants. From what i have read, i've gathered that the Champions settled with their army down in a city state. They aren't so much the people of draj, but in the future they would be...if you see what i mean...but thank you for the comments on that
The obsidian and the cord armor would seem like a common day tactic, you stating that they would most likely use the brigandine armor, thank you, i forgot about the fact that they would have access to metal many times easier then current day athas. The only reason it really came to me as glass was for the reason that i based their unarmed combat off of that of the Thai. The Thai would wrap their hands in wrope and then glue glass to it. They were also experts at infighting once their enemy got too close for swords to be truly effective, they would go into the "clinch" and use elbows, knees, kicks and punches. The glass glued onto them would not only increase the damage of the blows, but would also have a chance to break off into their enemies.
Brigande armor would probably would be the route that they ran, or studded leather (read poor man's mail). I imagine that leather would not be terribly scarce for them considering they are fighting beasts with high natural armor. This could also put them into a situation where they would have hide armor in surplus and it would be quick and easy to make. Problem being is that it requires more training to have medium armor and would make them even slower in the face of the the wemics. Studded leather/ brigande armor would be the best....
I am not familiar with the stats of this armor (i do know that it wears out very quickly). However, i am standing by the idea of them being covered in some sort of spikes to make their striking deadlier as well as their grappling less apatizing.
Possible strategy up for debate - the use of Zerka's (yes they are stated in the book thri-kreen of athas to be a kreen weapon, but IIRC there is a spiked spear which the Draji use to throw into their oponent, then yank back on the cord. This would be foolish on a wemic unless you have more then one man per wemic (which would be required anyhow), but you could tie the zerka's to poles via long rope. as wemics would get hit with these, they would either be stopped, or have the zerka's ripped out, causing more damage. Furthur, if the zerka's were put into the wemics and they were stopped, they would quickly be chopped down by the eagle and jaguar knights.
Just some thoughts as i am waking up
Hopefully by the end of the week I will have the first section's fluff done, or at least started, so that people can have a form to follow. Things are looking good, let's keep it up.
Also, and I know that this may cause some people some problems, but I am not under the impression that metal was ever really plentiful. I could be wrong, but I like the idea that it just was never really that common. If the general concensus is to the contrary, fine, but I just see it another way.
The texts definitely contradict this, both novels and sourcebooks.
Just before the start of Amber Enchantress, the dwarves of Kled discover a wealth of metal arms and armor in ruined Kemalok. Raiders attempt to steal this at the start of Obsidian Oracle. The dwarves then proceed to wear this armor during the Cerulean Storm.
Likewise, there are references in the Wanderer's Journal(s) to a time when Metal was more plentiful.
What i meant about the Draji was the future inhabitants. From what i have read, i've gathered that the Champions settled with their army down in a city state. They aren't so much the people of draj, but in the future they would be...if you see what i mean...but thank you for the comments on that
I agree, I just was suggesting that at the time they wouldn't probably have been called Draji. I was suggesting that another term such as "Teckticulay's Army" or something similar be used. I get the impression that all the cities already existed, so at the time of the Cleansing war the term "Draji" would refer not to Teck's followers, but rather to the residents of that city (who could be very different from the present day residents).
I picture it...well...similar to faerun...except psionics is the arcane magic.
I would leave the idea of Irikos and Kalak an open one, perhaps something that if people chose, they can use one or the other because it is an inconsistency throughout the campaign setting...We could either add that onto the "bill" and have that be completed as well as Kalak, or there could be a poll. just an idea...but that seems to be the best solution...but everyone sees things their own way.
Its possible that back then there was a differently-named city in place of today's Draj, or its possible that Tec built over something that wasn't a city, maybe just a town, religious center, etc. I've read references to many old ziggurats in the territory around Draj, probably indicators that there was a previous ziggurat-building culture in the region, thus Tec may have chosen a spot at random to build his city, or chosen tactically the best defensible spot.
The texts definitely contradict this, both novels and sourcebooks.
Just before the start of Amber Enchantress, the dwarves of Kled discover a wealth of metal arms and armor in ruined Kemalok. Raiders attempt to steal this at the start of Obsidian Oracle. The dwarves then proceed to wear this armor during the Cerulean Storm.
Likewise, there are references in the Wanderer's Journal(s) to a time when Metal was more plentiful.
sorry guys, did look before i spoke. i did however, always seem to take that as an old elf's tale, you know, like the athasian gods. but, metal makes things a little better.
I found an armor process which would have the same effects of studded leather on the durablity of the armor (meaning, it will deteriorate very quickly). This armor is basically studding the armor, but instead of just leaving the rivets you keep down vary metal plates as well.
Up Close
and The whole suit 
I don't know if this would fit the per war Teck's army flavor...but that's why we check with other people. I thought of this armor simply because they would want the most protection possible while still remaining mobile. The book i filched these pictures from basically gave it a cheap version of a chain shirt, with a worse armor check penalty. this armor is actually better then brigandine armor because it is light and flexible (when compared to brigandine armor). Downfall is is that it falls apart quite quickly; however, with the wemics and their tough hide dying all around, the army of Tec wouldn't run out of new materials anytime soon.
Looking farther on down into current day, I also picked up some of their current armor "style".
This armor is made of cord, big suprize considering their main export is rope and grains. I figure this is a better thing because they would have a lot of problems finding leather (considering their biggest need is in slaves and animals). Another thought which crossed by mind was what if they put bone (melted down and molded) across/interwoven the cords. this would be teh same thing...with inferior materials, but could hold promise. This is just a thought however.
Tec's army used to wrap their hands in sturdy cloth about 2 inches thick and 15' long (this is for each hand mind you.) This was mean to make sure that the men would not break their wrists when hitting their opponents with their weapons. This was also used for when the men lost their weapons so they did not break their hands/wrists when they struck their enemies. To increase the damage output with these strikes, they would put on long leather gloves and sew metal plates to the back of the hand on the outer edge (like fingerless mittins) and then put spikes on it. They would also place spikes on their shins to increase the potency of their kicks.
One of the big problems I think people have with the idea of "old Athas = normal amount of metal, modern Athas = little metal" is the question of "where did it all go?" The best way to look at it, in my opinion, is to compare the Cleansing Wars to, say WWII. Although the technology level obviously wasn't there, both sides did rely on both psionics and magic, which can cause destruction on the level of WWII-era weaponry (or at least come close to it), and although you didn't have tanks you did have thousands upon thousands of soldiers wearing and wielding metal armor and equipment, which adds up to a great amount of metal overall.
During WWII, which didn't even last 10 years let alone millenia, many/most of the nations involved couldn't keep up with supply-and-demand of many natural resources, including metal, to meet the demands of the war. In the case of the Cleansing Wars, the situation would have been pretty similar - weapons and armor are destroyed and/or lost in the field as soldiers are incinerated by Energy Cones and Fireballs or hacked apart by their enemies and trampled into the ground, legions are burried under tons of rock as they are caught in a chasm by ambushing forces, etc. And all this time you're losing soldiers, which have to be replaced by taking people out of the workforce, which reduces the amount of new metal and equipment making it out to the field, etc etc etc. This has been a common cycle repeated again and again throughout history, only normally it was done on a much smaller scale...the idea of continuing this for thousands of years and it's no wonder there's pretty much no metal, cities, or anything else left.