Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax May 31, 2006 16:03:24	With the Epic Level Handbook opening the way, and several 3rd party publishers publishing epic material of their own, how would you handle epic monsters in Krynn? We know they can and often do exist; Malystryx is a perfect example of an epic-level monster, as are many of the other Dragon Overlords. But what of the critters in the ELH? How could neh'thalguu, mu spores, and prismasauruses fit into Krynn, and moreover, retain the "feel" of the Dragonlance cosmology? Many of these monsters could easily be the minions of the gods; I imagine Hiddukel has some glooms working for him, and as for Zeboim, primal water elementals with the fiendish template are probably the most bad-ass things in her section of the Abyss. And as for Chislev? Just pray she doesn't grow tired of civilization, and awaken the devestation vermin! (And the leShay? Why, they were the first race made by the gods, in the days before Krynn, when all beings dwelt in the Beyond. Abandoned by the 21 deities when they followed the Highgod and made the multiverse, the leShay seethe with bitterness over their neglectful ex-masters....) Back to the original point, how could the ELH's many monsters be used "correctly" in Dragonlance? And don't tell me "You DON'T use it", as beasts like Malys and Khellendros are canon, and are epic monsters. --Cam's opinion in this regard would be especially valued NB
#2 cam_banks May 31, 2006 16:58:51	It's not that you can't use such things, because as you say there are definitely examples of them. The Coil, for example, was a monstrous entity that threatened the Minotaur Isles during the Summer of Chaos, and you could argue that there have been other truly terrifying things in Krynn's distant past. The trick is that epic level activity is pivotal, significant, and world-shaking in Krynn. For each era, there's really only one epic-level character, and in order for there to be another, the older one needs to go/retire/die/etc. Ariakas was that character during the War of the Lance, and his death with Raistlin's assistance opened the way for Raistlin to step up. If an epic-level creature enters the picture, everybody should know about it, all of the historians should be aware of it, and the saga needs to be forever changed in some way because of it. The Dragon Overlords were, in almost every sense, the most powerful creatures that have walked Krynn other than aspects of the gods. Yet they are still dragons, creatures we know from the Monster Manual for being capable of post-20 CR levels. If you decide to run an epic-level campaign in Dragonlance, it needs to literally change things. Your campaign will and must steer off the course of the established continuity, because if it doesn't, the epic-level characters and creatures are just meaningless. Nothing should ever be meaningless in Dragonlance. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2006 0:04:18	Who is the epic level person of the Age of Mortals?
#4 iltharanos Jun 01, 2006 0:57:54	Who is the epic level person of the Age of Mortals? Not counting the dragon overlords, we have Sir Liam Ehrling at level 21.
#5 ares Jun 01, 2006 6:42:19	Not counting the dragon overlords, we have Sir Liam Ehrling at level 21. Yeah, I suppose. But he's only a *touch* epic. What Cam said about Epic characters is true. But what about this age, eh? This is the age of mortals. We know that many of the limits that were in place before are gone. That being said, epic characters and their monstrous rivals are always the movers and shakers on the world. Having an Epic character around is going to be a major concern for all the organizations upon Krynn. With the gods aspects set at level 20 (CR 25, I guess), even the gods can't really stop an out of control epic character. Even a cleric like the Kingpriest wasn't banned from his magic, and he even described the restoration spell he cast on Crysannia as a "demand" (or some such other thing), and though a black robe is described in the Soulforge to have lost her magic for displeasing Nuitari (something I don't like), Raistlin snubbed the orders while still retaining his Black Robe prestige class abilities. Epic characters stand outside the established orders of things, and even if they are good, they should still be seen as a force not to be trusted.
#6 cam_banks Jun 01, 2006 6:49:36	Not counting the dragon overlords, we have Sir Liam Ehrling at level 21. He's really only an epic level character because at the time, we needed to give him so many levels in other classes! I'm not sure, but we may have revised him down a couple of notches for Knightly Orders. Plus, he's very old, so he may not be around for much longer after the War of Souls. Stay tuned. The epic level character in the Age of Mortals is probably Mina, although with recent revelations I won't go into here, that's probably something of a special case also. She certainly occupied that top slot, and with the end of all of the Dragon Overlords I would guess the time is about right for a new epic level character. Cheers, Cam
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2006 12:21:32	I'll start the ball rolling, with how I view the various monsters in the ELH in regards to Krynn: Abominations: No changes needed, other than to state that some are the children of Chaos alone, and all are imprisoned in a massive demiplane attached to the Void of Chaos. Brachyuruses: Created by Chislev taking on a wolf form and spilling her blood to Krynn during the first hunt on the first night of the world, brachyuruses hunt the most forbidding regions of Krynn, on all the continents. On Anasalon, these primal wolves hunt in a small pack of three (a mated pair and a solitary female) deep, deep, deep within the forest of Silvanesti. The Silvanesti revere them as the avatars of all wolf-kind. When the Shield was raised during the Age of Mortals, they turned on the elves, and now exist as the bane of the minotaur invasion and the elven re-conquest alike. Devastation vermin: These are Chislev's ultimate warriors. Mindless destroyers, they were only unleashed once, during the Chaos War, when they overwhelmed and ate a godlike CR50 Chaos-titan off the coast of Qualinesti. When Krynn was stolen, they fell back into torpor, and thankfully Takhisis never learned where they were sleeping. Elder treants: Zivilyn made the treants from the Kagonesti race, transforming them into sentient trees, so that the wisdom of the plant kingdom might be understood by all elves. The wisest of these tree-men became the elder treants. When Silvanos formed Silvanesti, almost all elder treants moved there. And sadly, they all died there when the Shield was erected, their potent life essences sucked out almost immediately to fuel the Shield's impenetrability. Only one or two remain, out in the forests of Northern Ergoth, renegades who refused to dwell among their former kin, for whatever reason. Genius loci: In the days of the All-Saints War, Sargonnas imbued the land with fiery magicks, in an attempt to scorch Chislev from the very wilderness she embodied. These volcanoes were imbued with such potent magic that they became alive and self-aware, gifted with their sire's overwhelming desire to control. For thousands of years, the genious loci served Sargonnas as his chief leiutenants in the Material Plane, but when the gods disappeared, the genius loci went dormant. Now that the gods've returned, they awaken once more to heed their father's call! Gibbering orbs: Formerly beholders, they were warped by the magic of Chaos into their present state. A few still remain on Krynn, in foreboding, desolate locations. Glooms: Crafted by the Greygem from a cabal of the six greatest assassins the Age of Dreams had ever known, the terrifying glooms serve only Hiddukel, god of deception. They dwell in seperate locations on the Material Plane; at least one is known to inhabit a cove off the coast of Palanthus. When Krynn was stolen, the glooms went into hiding, easily sensing the treachery of Takhisis, and unwilling to betray the god they'd served for so long.... Hagunemnons: Pure, raw Chaos energy given form, proteans served as the lords of the recent Chaos invasion. No one knows if they survived the fall of their god, but if you take their mastery of shapeshifting into account, they may well have actually prospered after Takhisis stole the world.... Many inhabit the oceans surrounding Ansalon, as the variety of lifeforms to mimic is greater, there. Ha-nagas: When dragons mated with normal snakes in polymorphed form, the naga race was the result. Ha-nagas are the result of Takhisis imbuing spirit nagas with immense magical energies, enslaving them to her will. During the Age of Mortals, Malys hunted down 90% of the ha-nagas, in an attempt to take their skulls for her skull totem (an unsuccessful attempt, I might add). Those that remain were devastated by the loss of their goddess, and many seek revenge on all elves as a result her murder. At least one has recently taken up residence in Qualinesti. Hoary hunters: Not all fey serve Chislev. The hoary hunters are Abyssal fey that drag souls screaming back to the Abyss for Zeboim's dark pleasure. Hunefers: Only one exists on Krynn at the moment: The hunefer of Takhisis, Queen of Darkness. Enslaved almost immediately by Sargonnas, it is wretchedly tortured by the God of Vengeance whenever the mood strikes him. The beast has gone quite, quite mad by this point... LeShay: Formerly the creation of all 21 gods when the gods dwelt in the Beyond, the leShay were abandoned when the gods came to the multiverse at the behest of the Highgod. Seething with bitterness, they now serve only themselves. Most Krynnish natives have never heard of them, but most huldrefolk have heard the name "leShay" and know to fear it! Mercanes: Once ogres who worshipped Shinare, even in the face of their race's decline into savagery, the Greygem proved their salvation. Now a race of planar merchants, they have as their homeland the realm of Shinare in the Hidden Vale. Many stories are told in Ansalon and Taladas of the blue giants who deal in magical goods. They were cut off from Krynn during most of the Age of Mortals, and as a result now refuse to do business with any being or beings that once worshipped Takhisis. Mu spores: Zivilyn may be a gentle god, but even he has need for warriors. Forming an elite nobility in the Forest of Zhan, most mu spores dwell on the Outer Planes. A few have migrated to Krynn, where they dwelt deep under Thorbardin, in caves so deep even the dwarves would scoff at the locale's veracity. Neh'thalguus: More creatures of Chaos, only one has ever made it to Krynn. It still exists, lurking in forgotten places, preying on powerful mortals for the brains it so desperately craves. Yaggol worship it as a deity. Primal elementals: Lords of the four Elemental Planes, only four of these beasts exist. Each one is the sultan that reigns over all of that element, anywhere in the multiverse. They serve Gilean as a unit, and Habbakuk (air), Reorx (earth), Sirrion (fire), and Zeboim (water) individually. Prismasauruses: When the Age of Starbirth dawned, and dinosaurs and dragons ruled Krynn, Sirrion touched a species of tyrant lizard and transformed them into prismasauruses. They now dwell in Taladas, near the center of the continent, in the fiery wastes. Ruin swarms: Weapons forged by Morgion at his black anvil in the days when dragons ruled the earth, ruin swarms exist only to further the Lord of Disease's whims. None have been released since the Second Cataclysm, when Morgion unleashed them to devour a host of Chaos-insects plaguing the disir of Taladas, it is only a matter of time before Morgion releases them once more.... Thorciasids: The greatest creations of Majere (along with vermiurges), the thorciacisids serve their god by keeping mortal evil in check. All dwelt on Ansalon, in hidden nests they revealed to no one. When Takhisis stole Krynn, they patiently waited for Majere to return. Now they serve him once more. Umbral blots: Living weapons of Chaos, only three ever entered Krynn. All three were sent towards Palanthus, which Habbakuk's highest druid, a gold dragon great wyrm named Huard, managed to drive off. One was later destroyed by Malys, another was captured by forces still yet unknown, and the third remains at large. Uvuudaums: A race native to the Void of Chaos, they ransacked the Outer Planes during the Summer of Chaos. The gods personally hunted many down and slew them. Still, hordes more remain, and they gather daily in growing numbers in the Abyss. It's only a matter of time before they rage across the planes once more.... Vermiurges: The greatest creations of Majere (along with thorciasids), the vermiurges roamed the deserts of Ansalon promoting the spread of insect life. Krynnish thri-kreen view them as demi-deities, and during the Age of Mortals, tribes of human barbarians in the Northern Wastes worshipped them. --aaaaand, that's everything the forums'll let me post LOL NB