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Mystara Iconic creatures

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
havard
Jun 01, 2006 6:31:23 I wasnt really familiar with the term iconic creature before reading through the Eberron Sourcebook, which states that one of the things they wanted to do was make use of the D&D iconic creatures, such as the Beholder, giving it a proper place in the setting as opposed to how these often are treated in most actual D&D settings.

In some of the VotPA discussions, I have stated that the Lupins and Rakasta are creatures I consider to be iconic Mystarans. The Diaboli and the Aranea should perhaps also be included.

Are there other creatures that should be considered iconic for Mystara? Is there any way we can make use of these to give Mystara a more distinct feel?

Håvard
#2
Traianus_Decius_Aureus
Jun 01, 2006 8:15:21 This is harder than I thought- so much of what I like most about Mystara is tied to NPCs and the concept of Immortals/Immortality. Additionally, many Mystara critters have been co-opted into most other settings, diluting their uniqueness.

I'd go for:

The Carnefix- Nasty foes, throughly evil and very underused. And they are in my favorite module of all time.

Actaeon (Elk Centaur)
Pegataurs
Phanatons
#3
vgeisz_dup
Jun 02, 2006 17:24:45 these have been done but
Areana
Attach
Blackball
and these havent but are truely mystaran
Gemstone dragons
Vern
#4
culture20
Jun 02, 2006 18:47:30 kopru
hutaaka
gnome+trolls (admitedly, not a unique creature, but the origin is quite different)
thouls
kubitts
all of the Savage Coast monsters..
#5
vgeisz_dup
Jun 02, 2006 21:45:29 forgot hutaakan
also 3/4 to all of the critters on the conversion thread
Vern
#6
rhialto
Jun 02, 2006 22:09:56 I'd go for rakasta and lupins. Maybe they exist in other settings, but nowhee near as developed. Gemstone dragons are very definitely unique to Mystara, but not really well developed. Same goes for draeden and blackballs.
#7
agathokles
Jun 03, 2006 1:55:56
Are there other creatures that should be considered iconic for Mystara? Is there any way we can make use of these to give Mystara a more distinct feel?

I'd say definitely Lupins and Rakasta -- even though they're more PC races than monsters. Daedren and Blackball are too high level -- you won't find any Daedren on Mystara proper, for example, and even Blackballs should be incredibly rare.

Chevalls, Kopru and Shadow Elves are also typically Mystaran, though they are quite uncommon (except SE, of course). OTOH, one of the few well known Mystaran NPCs outside Mystara is a Shadow Elf, so the SE probably fit the concept best.

As for what to do with them, my idea is that these creatures should be featured more often than in most campaigns. E.g., IMC Lupins and Rakasta are more common in many regions than the standard demihumans -- so Ochalea is 30% Lupin and Davania is almost 50% Rakasta, and it is very easy to meet a Lupin in Glantri or Thyatis.

Some other things that might be done:
- Develop Myoshima as the new threat to the KW political balance as well as the Simbasta presence in the HK ranks.
- Develop Ochalea as a Lupin setting, as well as Lupin presence in other underdeveloped areas (e.g., Foxfolk, Heldann Shepherds, Ostland Stovare and Norwold Malamutes in Norwold).
- Develop Rakasta presence in Davania and in the Arm of the Immortal.
- Develop campaign plots that involve these races and their interaction with other elements of the campaign.
#8
gawain_viii
Jun 03, 2006 9:01:54 For me, when I think of Mystaran monsters, the obvious ones include Lupin, Rakasta, and Hutaakans. Of course, these are all PC races IMC.
Other choices include the Aranea, Gemstone dragons, Actaeon (sp?), and, my favorites, the Chevall and Nosferatu. There is also the Blackball--the Umbral blot just isn't the same. Blackball just sounds ominous.

For the record, I don't care what Wizards and/or Paizo says--Rakasta does NOT equal catfolk! Catfolk are weak and have multiple breeds (like the lupins do), but Rakasta are badass and have only 1 tiger-like breed! (There are different cultures [savage, civilized, aristocratic, etc], but they all have a tiger appearance, IIRC.)

Roger
#9
agathokles
Jun 03, 2006 10:53:11
For the record, I don't care what Wizards and/or Paizo says--Rakasta does NOT equal catfolk! Catfolk are weak and have multiple breeds (like the lupins do), but Rakasta are badass and have only 1 tiger-like breed! (There are different cultures [savage, civilized, aristocratic, etc], but they all have a tiger appearance, IIRC.)

Actually, according to the "Campaign Classics" article there are several breeds of Rakasta -- Simbasta, Sherkasta, Jakar, Pardasta (several variant), Lynxman, etc. However, most civilized Rakasta (i.e., the Myoshiman and Bellaynish people) belong to a smaller group of breeds -- the Domestic and Alley Rakasta, who look more or less like domestic and alley cats.

The other breeds are more primitive, and live in Davania (Simbasta, Fast Runner and some other breeds), the Arm of the Immortal (Jakar, Jakarundi) and Skothar (Sherkasta, Cloud Pardasta, Snow Pardasta), with smaller groups in many other areas.
#10
rhialto
Jun 03, 2006 18:28:04
Some other things that might be done:
- Develop Ochalea as a Lupin setting, as well as Lupin presence in other underdeveloped areas (e.g., Foxfolk, Heldann Shepherds, Ostland Stovare and Norwold Malamutes in Norwold).

I'd say Ochalea should be more rakasta than lupin. It's loosely based on China/'oriental' cultures, and istr that 'foreign dogs' is one of the nicer words they had during their xenophobic days. This also creates a nice basis for a background connection between Ochalea and Myoshima.
#11
agathokles
Jun 04, 2006 3:07:08
I'd say Ochalea should be more rakasta than lupin. It's loosely based on China/'oriental' cultures, and istr that 'foreign dogs' is one of the nicer words they had during their xenophobic days. This also creates a nice basis for a background connection between Ochalea and Myoshima.

Myoshima is Japan, not China, though. Also, there are four breeds of M-Chinese Lupins (Ochalean Houndling, Ochalean Crested, Shar-Pei and Ogrish Chow-Chow) which would otherwise be wasted, while apparently there isn't any M-Chinese Rakasta breed (actually, most Rakasta breeds are either M-African or M-Indonesian: the Myoshimans, like the Bellaynese, are probably the more modern "domestic" or "alley" Rakasta).

That's not to say that there aren't Rakasta on Ochalea, just not as many as the Lupins, and probably much less integrated into the Ochalean society (according to the Rakasta article, some Pardasta live in the rocky areas of central Ochalea, IIRC).
#12
ripvanwormer
Jun 05, 2006 23:53:13 Although they're of course not uniquely Mystaran, it's hard to deny that elves, dwarves, humans, and hin are pretty iconic for the setting and a major part of its flavor.

The Creature Crucibles also, more than anything, defines to me the iconic races of Mystara. Except the lycanthrope one, which I don't have.

So: brownie, centaur, dryad, faun, hsiao, leprechaun, pixie, pooka, sidhe, sprite, treant, wood imp, woodrake.

Faenare, gnome, gremlin, harpy, nagpa, pegataur, sphinx, tabi.

Nixie, merrow, aquatic elf, shark-kin, triton, kna, kopru, sea giant.

A number of these races aren't found on any other world, and hardly any of them are common PCs elsewhere (except gnomes, obviously).

Other than those, the race that sticks out to me the most is the beastmen of the Hollow World - not only a unique, distinctive race, but a distinctive origin for other more common races.

Oh, and rot dwarves. Modrigswerg.
#13
zombiegleemax
Jun 07, 2006 14:11:52 I like many creatures you told, but I want to add the shadowelf: I don't think any other campaign world owns a shadowelf country, they have drows, but it is really really different!
#14
zombiegleemax
Jun 07, 2006 22:48:59 these are some quite iconic creatures and
Shadow Elf (NOT A Drow for you who believe them the same,the drow worship Lolth,while if i heard correct the SE worship a diety named Rafeel)
it's a devil to kill the bastards especially if your against groups of the bastards
#15
havard
Jun 08, 2006 6:47:03
these are some quite iconic creatures and
Shadow Elf (NOT A Drow for you who believe them the same,the drow worship Lolth,while if i heard correct the SE worship a diety named Rafeel)
it's a devil to kill the bastards especially if your against groups of the bastards

I agree, the Shadow Elves should definately be in there. There are many other things that make them different from Drow, Shadowelves (of i.e Ebberon) and Dark Elves of other settings in addition to the fact that they worship the Immortal Rafiel. By the way, why do you want to kill them? They aren't evil!

Håvard
#16
gawain_viii
Jun 08, 2006 11:07:18 Here's a thought for iconic Mystaran critters... Kobolds! Mystaran kobolds are drastically different from the core monster. Although they are identica, statistically speaking, their background, history, and physical description (as well as languages) are quite unique.

Roger

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 havard Jun 01, 2006 6:31:23	I wasnt really familiar with the term iconic creature before reading through the Eberron Sourcebook, which states that one of the things they wanted to do was make use of the D&D iconic creatures, such as the Beholder, giving it a proper place in the setting as opposed to how these often are treated in most actual D&D settings. In some of the VotPA discussions, I have stated that the Lupins and Rakasta are creatures I consider to be iconic Mystarans. The Diaboli and the Aranea should perhaps also be included. Are there other creatures that should be considered iconic for Mystara? Is there any way we can make use of these to give Mystara a more distinct feel? Håvard
#2 Traianus_Decius_Aureus Jun 01, 2006 8:15:21	This is harder than I thought- so much of what I like most about Mystara is tied to NPCs and the concept of Immortals/Immortality. Additionally, many Mystara critters have been co-opted into most other settings, diluting their uniqueness. I'd go for: The Carnefix- Nasty foes, throughly evil and very underused. And they are in my favorite module of all time. Actaeon (Elk Centaur) Pegataurs Phanatons
#3 vgeisz_dup Jun 02, 2006 17:24:45	these have been done but Areana Attach Blackball and these havent but are truely mystaran Gemstone dragons Vern
#4 culture20 Jun 02, 2006 18:47:30	kopru hutaaka gnome+trolls (admitedly, not a unique creature, but the origin is quite different) thouls kubitts all of the Savage Coast monsters..
#5 vgeisz_dup Jun 02, 2006 21:45:29	forgot hutaakan also 3/4 to all of the critters on the conversion thread Vern
#6 rhialto Jun 02, 2006 22:09:56	I'd go for rakasta and lupins. Maybe they exist in other settings, but nowhee near as developed. Gemstone dragons are very definitely unique to Mystara, but not really well developed. Same goes for draeden and blackballs.
#7 agathokles Jun 03, 2006 1:55:56	Are there other creatures that should be considered iconic for Mystara? Is there any way we can make use of these to give Mystara a more distinct feel? I'd say definitely Lupins and Rakasta -- even though they're more PC races than monsters. Daedren and Blackball are too high level -- you won't find any Daedren on Mystara proper, for example, and even Blackballs should be incredibly rare. Chevalls, Kopru and Shadow Elves are also typically Mystaran, though they are quite uncommon (except SE, of course). OTOH, one of the few well known Mystaran NPCs outside Mystara is a Shadow Elf, so the SE probably fit the concept best. As for what to do with them, my idea is that these creatures should be featured more often than in most campaigns. E.g., IMC Lupins and Rakasta are more common in many regions than the standard demihumans -- so Ochalea is 30% Lupin and Davania is almost 50% Rakasta, and it is very easy to meet a Lupin in Glantri or Thyatis. Some other things that might be done: - Develop Myoshima as the new threat to the KW political balance as well as the Simbasta presence in the HK ranks. - Develop Ochalea as a Lupin setting, as well as Lupin presence in other underdeveloped areas (e.g., Foxfolk, Heldann Shepherds, Ostland Stovare and Norwold Malamutes in Norwold). - Develop Rakasta presence in Davania and in the Arm of the Immortal. - Develop campaign plots that involve these races and their interaction with other elements of the campaign.
#8 gawain_viii Jun 03, 2006 9:01:54	For me, when I think of Mystaran monsters, the obvious ones include Lupin, Rakasta, and Hutaakans. Of course, these are all PC races IMC. Other choices include the Aranea, Gemstone dragons, Actaeon (sp?), and, my favorites, the Chevall and Nosferatu. There is also the Blackball--the Umbral blot just isn't the same. Blackball just sounds ominous. For the record, I don't care what Wizards and/or Paizo says--Rakasta does NOT equal catfolk! Catfolk are weak and have multiple breeds (like the lupins do), but Rakasta are badass and have only 1 tiger-like breed! (There are different cultures [savage, civilized, aristocratic, etc], but they all have a tiger appearance, IIRC.) Roger
#9 agathokles Jun 03, 2006 10:53:11	For the record, I don't care what Wizards and/or Paizo says--Rakasta does NOT equal catfolk! Catfolk are weak and have multiple breeds (like the lupins do), but Rakasta are badass and have only 1 tiger-like breed! (There are different cultures [savage, civilized, aristocratic, etc], but they all have a tiger appearance, IIRC.) Actually, according to the "Campaign Classics" article there are several breeds of Rakasta -- Simbasta, Sherkasta, Jakar, Pardasta (several variant), Lynxman, etc. However, most civilized Rakasta (i.e., the Myoshiman and Bellaynish people) belong to a smaller group of breeds -- the Domestic and Alley Rakasta, who look more or less like domestic and alley cats. The other breeds are more primitive, and live in Davania (Simbasta, Fast Runner and some other breeds), the Arm of the Immortal (Jakar, Jakarundi) and Skothar (Sherkasta, Cloud Pardasta, Snow Pardasta), with smaller groups in many other areas.
#10 rhialto Jun 03, 2006 18:28:04	Some other things that might be done: - Develop Ochalea as a Lupin setting, as well as Lupin presence in other underdeveloped areas (e.g., Foxfolk, Heldann Shepherds, Ostland Stovare and Norwold Malamutes in Norwold). I'd say Ochalea should be more rakasta than lupin. It's loosely based on China/'oriental' cultures, and istr that 'foreign dogs' is one of the nicer words they had during their xenophobic days. This also creates a nice basis for a background connection between Ochalea and Myoshima.
#11 agathokles Jun 04, 2006 3:07:08	I'd say Ochalea should be more rakasta than lupin. It's loosely based on China/'oriental' cultures, and istr that 'foreign dogs' is one of the nicer words they had during their xenophobic days. This also creates a nice basis for a background connection between Ochalea and Myoshima. Myoshima is Japan, not China, though. Also, there are four breeds of M-Chinese Lupins (Ochalean Houndling, Ochalean Crested, Shar-Pei and Ogrish Chow-Chow) which would otherwise be wasted, while apparently there isn't any M-Chinese Rakasta breed (actually, most Rakasta breeds are either M-African or M-Indonesian: the Myoshimans, like the Bellaynese, are probably the more modern "domestic" or "alley" Rakasta). That's not to say that there aren't Rakasta on Ochalea, just not as many as the Lupins, and probably much less integrated into the Ochalean society (according to the Rakasta article, some Pardasta live in the rocky areas of central Ochalea, IIRC).
#12 ripvanwormer Jun 05, 2006 23:53:13	Although they're of course not uniquely Mystaran, it's hard to deny that elves, dwarves, humans, and hin are pretty iconic for the setting and a major part of its flavor. The Creature Crucibles also, more than anything, defines to me the iconic races of Mystara. Except the lycanthrope one, which I don't have. So: brownie, centaur, dryad, faun, hsiao, leprechaun, pixie, pooka, sidhe, sprite, treant, wood imp, woodrake. Faenare, gnome, gremlin, harpy, nagpa, pegataur, sphinx, tabi. Nixie, merrow, aquatic elf, shark-kin, triton, kna, kopru, sea giant. A number of these races aren't found on any other world, and hardly any of them are common PCs elsewhere (except gnomes, obviously). Other than those, the race that sticks out to me the most is the beastmen of the Hollow World - not only a unique, distinctive race, but a distinctive origin for other more common races. Oh, and rot dwarves. Modrigswerg.
#13 zombiegleemax Jun 07, 2006 14:11:52	I like many creatures you told, but I want to add the shadowelf: I don't think any other campaign world owns a shadowelf country, they have drows, but it is really really different!
#14 zombiegleemax Jun 07, 2006 22:48:59	these are some quite iconic creatures and Shadow Elf (NOT A Drow for you who believe them the same,the drow worship Lolth,while if i heard correct the SE worship a diety named Rafeel) it's a devil to kill the bastards especially if your against groups of the bastards
#15 havard Jun 08, 2006 6:47:03	these are some quite iconic creatures and Shadow Elf (NOT A Drow for you who believe them the same,the drow worship Lolth,while if i heard correct the SE worship a diety named Rafeel) it's a devil to kill the bastards especially if your against groups of the bastards I agree, the Shadow Elves should definately be in there. There are many other things that make them different from Drow, Shadowelves (of i.e Ebberon) and Dark Elves of other settings in addition to the fact that they worship the Immortal Rafiel. By the way, why do you want to kill them? They aren't evil! Håvard
#16 gawain_viii Jun 08, 2006 11:07:18	Here's a thought for iconic Mystaran critters... Kobolds! Mystaran kobolds are drastically different from the core monster. Although they are identica, statistically speaking, their background, history, and physical description (as well as languages) are quite unique. Roger