| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1radnoviusJun 03, 2006 20:58:42 | So I'm just getting into D&D 3.5 after playing 2E for a long time I played 3.0 off and on a little but want to get into 3.5 more. So, I'm wondering which supplements I should get or if I should fork out the cash for the 3.5 core books. Has anyone checked out Sandstorm : Mastering the Perils of Fire and Sand? What I have already for 3.0: PHB, DMG, MM, Psionics Handbook, Tome & Blood |
| #2mystictheurgeJun 03, 2006 21:39:52 | I'd go ahead and get the 3.5 core books unless you're one of those people who doesn't have a big deal working from the SRD. Personally, I find the SRD handy, but it's not in a format I find readable, really. Plus you'll want the MM as some key monsters aren't OGC. After that, Sandstorm is nice, but it's different enough that only a few parts are usable in DS. Tome of Battle is handy if you want to do big war stuff, though people have suggested other non-wizards supplements may be more useful, namely Cry Havoc. The splatbooks, Complete..., are nice, lots of PrCs, some of which can be ported more or less. The Races of... books are good too, but not really useful for DS cause all the races are different (or absent). Of the Draconomicon/Libris Mortis/Lords of Madness series, really only Libris Mortis would be much use for DS. Dragons are different and Aberrations (at least the ones described in LoM) are rare. The upcoming fiendish codex likewise won't be much use, in all likelihood, given the lack of outer planes. If you're looking for more monsters MMII and III and Fiend Folio are handy. |
| #3sanderjkJun 04, 2006 3:31:09 | Psionics changed bigtime from 3.0 to 3.5, so getting the Expanded Psionics Handbook would be real handy (most of it is SRD though, if you don't mind etcet), especially because Dark Sun is such a psionic rich world. I wouldn't bother with Complete Psionics unless you really dig the XPH data, the CPsi is not that great a book. Apart from the core books, i find that complete adventurer and complete warrior classes/feats/PrC's tend to show up most in my Dark Sun game. The PHB II isn't that bad of an option either, it further empowers melee fighters at higher levels, and has some interesting alternatives. Not earthshattering though. Also, don't forget the athas.org stuff, in case you haven't come across it. |
| #4ZardnaarJun 04, 2006 7:49:49 | I actually regret a few of my book purchases. I would stick with the core rules+ complete series and the monster manuals. The Draconomicon/Libris Mortis etc are fantastic but limited for DS. The races books and enviroment books are basically over priced optional rubbish. Spell Compendium is handy to have while most FR books are going downhill- avoid the regional books. Book of Exalted Deeds/Vile Darkness are a bit to limited. Avoid the Planar handbook and Unearthed Arcana. |
| #5eric_anondsonJun 06, 2006 11:16:37 | So, I'm wondering which supplements I should get or if I should fork out the cash for the 3.5 core books. Has anyone checked out Sandstorm : Mastering the Perils of Fire and Sand? Definitely Expanded Psionics. MM2, MM3, and Fiend Folio are certainly good options, especially MM2 since some old Dark Sun monsters receive conversions to 3.5 in it. The Braxat, Cloud Ray, Rampager (So-ut), Forest Sloth, Megapede, Moonbeast, Psurlon, Spirit of the Land are all in MM2. Libris Mortis is good as well, you could get some great mileage. If you want your arcane spellcasters that fuel their magic from The Black to be substantially different, it would be worth considering taking a look at the new Tome of Magic. Heroes of Horror introduces the Dread Necromancer base class, a class themed towards undead arcane spellcasting, but ends with transformation into a Lich... Nifty idea for an NPC class at least, and Dark Sun has always had close link to undead with The Gray being so prominent. Still, HoH has lots of good stuff for adding some terror into a campaign generally. I've been working on importing Sandstorm's implementation of heat-related rules into the DS3.5 ruleset. It provides a bit more clarity on types of heat injuries and ways to remedy them. But there are a good number of Athas.org written spells that need re-polishing to get it to fit right. |
| #6flipJun 06, 2006 14:23:42 | I've been working on importing Sandstorm's implementation of heat-related rules into the DS3.5 ruleset. It provides a bit more clarity on types of heat injuries and ways to remedy them. But there are a good number of Athas.org written spells that need re-polishing to get it to fit right. Let me know what you come up with. I'm sure that the spell reworkings will be okay, if we run things through the spells bureau. I havn't had a chance to get and read through sandstorm, but I am certain that we need real heat rules. The current rules ... well, the desert gets real not-scary after about 3rd level .... |
| #7eric_anondsonJun 06, 2006 16:03:15 | Let me know what you come up with. I'm sure that the spell reworkings will be okay, if we run things through the spells bureau. I havn't had a chance to get and read through sandstorm, but I am certain that we need real heat rules. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if what I'm coming up with can be used without referencing Sandstorm. Can Athas.org's products do this? IMO, Sandstorm's rules for heat dangers, dehydration dangers, sand and wind dangers, and sun dangers deserve to be built into an Athas.org DS ruleset. If you guys can, I'd ask WotC if you could do at least re-publish modifications of those 7 and a half pages in the core Dark Sun rules you guys put out. Even with Sandstorm's greater clarity in some places, it feels like the heat rules could have used some further polishing and editing to make it simpler to use. I'm not jumping with joy over them and if I had my say I would have sent them back to the designer and editor. That said, there is enough of a good foundation to house-rule upon it for a Dark Sun campaign. I like the expanded temperature bands—unearthly cold, extreme cold, severe cold, cold, moderate, warm, hot (91F to 110F), severe heat (111F to 140F), extreme heat (141F to 180F), unearthly heat (181F to 210F), and burning heat (211F+)—heatstroke fatigue plus nonlethal damage and base protection levels against heat, equipment modifiers to base heat protections. A new type of damage, dessication, that is delt from dehydration. Something I like about dehydration is that if someone has taken any damage from dehydration then any damage taken from heat is automatically lethal damage instead of nonlethal. Treatment for which takes longterm care (24 hours of the Heal skill and double the normal base water intake), or the heal spell, once treated then magical healing can remove the damage taken from dehydration. The current rules ... well, the desert gets real not-scary after about 3rd level .... Yeah, but that certainly seems to be the way with D&D generally. Magic and psionics turn environmental obstacles into barely even a nuisance. Fly by itself changes the dynamic of many encounters. Sandstorm for all its detailing of heat dangers, and dehydration dangers, and sun dangers, does just the typical D&D thing and offers a way to over come it with a low level spell. For instance a 2nd-level spell hydrate eliminates some dessication damage, the double water need, recovery time, and Heal check all in one spell. So there we go again, the desert gets real non-scary at about 3rd level again... Still, as I mentioned, I appreciate the clarity of distinction between heatstroke, dehydration, and sunburn dangers introduced. [/end threadjack] Heh... |
| #8terminus_vortexaJun 07, 2006 16:24:49 | Dessication damage would make an interesting and viable substitute for the negative level damage inflicted by Dragon Magic upon living creatures. It fits the descriptors down to the letter, too. |
| #9radnoviusJun 08, 2006 10:11:06 | I think you've concinced me to pick up sandstorm once my funds expand a little. I have to agree that the rules for dehydration, as they are in 3.5, are pretty weak. I prefer the 2E rules Hydration / Penalty Full Water / None 1/2 to Full / 1d4 Con Less than 1/2 / 1d6 Con When Con equals zero, PC dies. This seems more true to life to me. The average person could handle about 4 days without water, which is what real humans can take. As for the hydrate spell, from what it sounds like, I might not allow it at all, make it only half as effective, and/or limit it to water/rain clerics. |
| #10eric_anondsonJun 08, 2006 13:19:58 | I think you've concinced me to pick up sandstorm once my funds expand a little. For completeness sake, here is Sandstorm's method for natural dehydration. —Characters need 1 gallon of water per day as per DMG p. 304. —Characters need +1 gallon/temperature band higher that warm. —A creature can go without water for a number of hours equal to 24 + its Constitution score, afterwards a successful Con check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal dehydration damage. —In hotter environments the interval between Con checks is reduced. See table. Sandstorm Dehydration Times Table 1–4
Personally, I altered the Sandstorm rules by adding another temperature band, building upon the Athas.org rules, I inserted a Very Hot temperature band, so mine go like this. Eric's Temperature Bands and Dehydration
Because dehydration supposedly is goes on how many hours a subject has gone without water, I was always bothered by the question of when you begin counting... the moment a subject has run out of water? The beginning of the first complete day without water? It seems like being nitpicky, but the rules do seems to demand counting of hours... *shrug* As for the hydrate spell, from what it sounds like, I might not allow it at all, make it only half as effective, and/or limit it to water/rain clerics. If someone is going to limit create water, or create food and water then by all means hydrate deserves limitation too. |
| #11radnoviusJun 09, 2006 0:08:14 | I think for Athas I'd shift the temp scale a bit: Very Hot (120° to 140°): 2 gallons/day. 12 hours + Con hours Severe heat (140° to 160°): 3 gallons/day. 6 hours + Con hours Extreme heat (160° to 180°): 4 gallons/day. 3 hours + Con hours Abysmal heat (181° to 210°): 5 gallons/day. Con hours Burning heat (211°+): 6 gallons/day. 1/2 Con hours I still think that subdual damage for dehydration seems a little lame. If there is a cleric in the party, he could just heal the damage. I think that Con damage is the way to go. |
| #12eric_anondsonJun 09, 2006 0:52:37 | I still think that subdual damage for dehydration seems a little lame. If there is a cleric in the party, he could just heal the damage. I think that Con damage is the way to go. You are slightly misinformed, but understandably. Nonlethal damage from environmental sources (like heat, cold/exposure, sunburn, dehydration, starvation) cannot be healed by magic until the cause has been stopped. See DMG 3.5 pages 302-304. For heat or cold, find shelter. For sun, find shade. For dehydration, drink water. Then you can heal the damage with magic, otherwise in 3.5 the environmental nonlethal damage stays. Unfortunately, what this does is creates distinct types of nonlethal damage without giving them proper types. We have physical nonlethal, heatstroke nonlethal, cold/exposure nonlethal, thirst/starvation nonlethal, ... . Also, you downgraded Hot from 2 gallons of water per day to 1 gallon per day, was that intentional? |
| #13radnoviusJun 09, 2006 1:37:07 | I had missed that part of subdual damage. I'll have to think about it still. Yeah, it's everyday is hot for the most part, and Athasians have adapted to the heat and only need 1 gallon/day. |