Are there any institutions in the city of Cauldron that should be part of larger Greyhawk organizations or just outright re-named? Is there anything particularly interesting that I could throw in with respect to the 4 most popular churches in town (Wee Jas, Cuthbert, Kord and Pelor)?
We placed Cauldron in the south end of the Hell Furnaces.
Well, that is the canonical location, after all. Cauldron is located south of Jeklea Bay, at the foot of the Hellfurnaces, on the edge of the Amedio Jungle.
As for previous comments: it's odd, I thought I had posted a reply. Basically, I have the idea that Cauldron has attracted many northern sages and adventurers over the decades, due to its location. This explains some of the northern influence, but Pelor might be pushing it (and he's probably there only because "core" gods had to be used). I like the suggestions for Perlor's replacement, and I'll look into what it would mean for the storyline.
Any other ideas? Thoughts on the magical societies of the Flanaess, and how they would be involved or not? I'm thinking that one of the Circle might be interested, and I think I know how I can work them in in the background without changing the story. Does the Silent Tower know about the construction of the cages? What would they do if they did?
Iuz is probably too large a hammer to employ in this story, as his influence is rarely subtle.
I was surprised that the Brotherhood wasn't at least mentioned in passing... that's something I will have to address. What's the current state of the slaving in this part of the world? Does the Brotherhood control Sasserine?
Although most associated with the Flan, Pelor has also been part of the Oeridian and Baklunish pantheons since before the Great Migrations.
Surabar was one of great Baklunish elementalists that survived the Invoked Devastation. He was sought out by Nidrama and convinced to form a bulwark against the demonic incursions that now had free reign since the collapse of the Suel Imperium. Establishing Redgorge after traveling south through Sasserine he was able to defeat the main demonic horde of Nabthtaron. When passing through Sasserine he was disturbed by the continuing slave trade practiced by the Suloise administrators and purchased and freed as many of the Flan that he could -- bringing them along to Redgorge. (One of these would be the great grandfather of Ankhin Taskerhill)
Cauldron was the remnants of an ancient Suel trading outpost that was discovered long abandoned by Surabar in my version of the SCAP. The old Suel used it as a trade post with many denizens of the underdark. Many of the settlers of Redgorge eventually transplanted to Cauldron because of its natural defenses and its natural resources and fertile soil for growing coffee beans. Before his death Surabar founds Bluewater Academy which until Keolands easing of restrictions on magical studies is a draw to all those in the southern part of the Flanaess who are interested in studying the arcane arts.
Both Cauldron and Redgorge get a steady influx of refugees as the Greyhawk Wars ramp up with the majority of people fleeing there when the Hold of the Sea Princes collapse and the Scarlet Brotherhood pushes west. Sasserine feels a lot of pressure to kowtow to the SB but a nation of aquatic elves who is in alliance with Drawmij takes its toll on any SB ships that travel to far from the Amedian hook. And as the Brotherhood control collapses in the Hold their attention quickly focuses on burgeoning Keoland and the "Black Brothers" in the western parts of the Hold.
Anyway thats a quick and dirty preview of the stuff that I came up with for my Greyhawk SCAP. I have a lot more specifics with the spellweavers, Suel, Nidrama background, backgrounds for the Cagewrights, history of "Zurabar" etc. but it really is a work in progress. So far we have only gotten through a couple of chapters but I have already thrown in a few red herrings such as a cult of Kyuss and some minor Scarlet Brotherhood spies. I also made the church of Pelor a church of Joramy because of my take on Nidrama but really with Surabar taking many of the Flan under his wing from Sasserine it only makes sense for there to be some religous institutions brought by the Flan.
Lassiviren's done a great job in putting the city and the world together, though I'd have tossed a lot more of SCAP's central casting features out to match it better with the setting. My Cauldron would be a rough and ready frontier outpost - more Fitzcaraldo meets Deadwood than High Medieval Europe in a volcano. Founded by the Suel, yes - but I'd see local administrators becoming cruel petty despots after the Rain of Colourless Fire.
If Surabar freed slaves - it might have been in a bloody slave revolt rather than by buying them. There'd have been interactions (mostly peaceful, though often not - piratical raiding, etcslave taking) with the Toli or the Suel of Berghof (who remember from the UK mod, established a settlement or settlements on Jeklea Bay on the other side of Adlerweg Pass).
Both Cauldron and Sasserine would be steamy, grimy backwater outposts - their economies ticking over on flogging jungle goods to Toli and later Keoish traders, with power in the hands of "big men" - those with enough money, muscle or magic to back their authority. If either spot was worth the effort, the Toli may have made a grab for them. Alternatively, the local desports might have allied themselves with the Toli or paid tribute. It's possible that there was a revolt against the despots and/or the Toli, bringing a slightly more equitable oligarchy into power - but I don't see it being sweetness and light by any means.
I also don't see large numbers of refugees fleeing to the jungles during the Wars. If I were a Holder with a ship - I'd head north to safety, food and civilisation if I could, rather than south to pestilent jungle outposts. Some people from the southern Hold, Port Toli esp. may have had little choice but to go there, but not a massive influx.
Further, aquatic olve notwithstanding - if the SB hasn't bothered to sieze open control of Sasserine or Cauldron - they're either not worth having (curious, if they're Imperial foundations and thus part of the SB's birthright) or they already have a measure of covert power there already - enough to pull the strings in the directions they want without having to impose their will on the place with force.
All IMO of course.
P.
Both Cauldron and Sasserine would be steamy, grimy backwater outposts
I don't see why this has to be the case. First off, keep in mind that Cauldron is not in the jungle, it is a small volcano at the foothills of the Hellfurnaces, just outside of the jungle. That means that it probably has enough altitude to be cooler and dryer than most of the surrounding area (contributing to its tempermental weather that leads into chapter 3). I would think that it would have a climate similar to that of San Francisco, but with heavier, warmer rains during the wet season, but otherwise about the same.
Second, this idea would break the back of the adventure. The change between chapters 3 and 5 is supposed to be dramatic, bringing the town from a rather open and friendly oasis of civilization to a state of near civil war over the taxation and oppressive nature of the new government. If it's a rather dismal place to start, this transition isn't nearly as interesting for the players.
if the SB hasn't bothered to sieze open control of Sasserine or Cauldron - they're either not worth having (curious, if they're Imperial foundations and thus part of the SB's birthright) or they already have a measure of covert power there already
I'm working on the assumption that it's a simple logistic impossibility with respect to Cauldron. Sasserine... well, most of the SB's efforts are focused on the central Flanaess, so there's not much strategic value in the port town. Still, they must have done something to avoid becoming a puppet to the Brotherhood... then again perhaps they have.
Cauldron is literally defended by earth and fire. It would be an amazing waste of resources to take it by force, and there's nothing there that's really worth the effort.
Anyway thats a quick and dirty preview of the stuff that I came up with for my Greyhawk SCAP. I have a lot more specifics with the spellweavers, Suel, Nidrama background, backgrounds for the Cagewrights, history of "Zurabar" etc. but it really is a work in progress.
I love what you have so far! Is there any way that I could get you to fire some of your notes off to me at ajs at ajs (that's the domain) dot com? I'm about to start my game at chapter 4 (I think I said 6 somewhere, that was a typo), introducing the players into the middle of things. That will be next Saturday, and I just can't wait. I just got a box of minis that I ordered, and I have all of my notes in place, so the only thing left is to start carving up styrofoam for the city encounter at the start of chapter 4!
I'm so excited! ;)
If Surabar freed slaves - it might have been in a bloody slave revolt rather than by buying them. There'd have been interactions (mostly peaceful, though often not - piratical raiding, etcslave taking) with the Toli or the Suel of Berghof (who remember from the UK mod, established a settlement or settlements on Jeklea Bay on the other side of Adlerweg Pass).
As you know these were some of the things that I was struggling with. How to stay true to the hardcover adventures (mainly so as to not create even more work for myself!) but also to change things so that it was more grounded within Greyhawk. I decided that it was easier to say that Sasserine was already a decent sized city before the Rain of Colorless Fire which then caused its population to swell followed by a lengthy time of gradual decay. Also I figured if people would flee all the way from Slerotin's Tunnel south into the Amedio, then why not when fleeing from the Scarlet Brotherhood during that invasion? The primary reason for me using Cauldron as is was because of the map which is simply awesome. Also ajs is spot on with his comments about Cauldron being particully well suited for its environment it would be similar to the high mountain areas of South America. I am also assuming that Sasserine and Cauldron currently do have a slave trade, that it was probably only prohibited during the time that Surabar held power. Surabar freeing the slaves was an easy way for me to get a large contingent of Flan into the area of Cauldron (along with obviously Suel, Oeridians and eventually the Olman).
Further, aquatic olve notwithstanding - if the SB hasn't bothered to sieze open control of Sasserine or Cauldron - they're either not worth having (curious, if they're Imperial foundations and thus part of the SB's birthright) or they already have a measure of covert power there already - enough to pull the strings in the directions they want without having to impose their will on the place with force.
I basically did a combination of the two things you intimated, firstly that their initial coup failed (the assassin wasn't able to kill the 'Prince' of Sasserine) and that their take over of the Hold didn't go as smoothly as they wanted. Add to this the betrayal of the 'Black Brotherhood' in the western parts of the Hold and they simply were stretched too thin to accomplish much in Sasserine and Cauldron. Yes they have agents there but not the man power required to conquer anything which was probably and ironically done away with by an even greater evil which turns out to be Lord Valantru and the Cagewrights. I am also very eager to see what we will get from Paizo with regard to Sasserine (and that Scarlet Brotherhood affiliation) in the new Savage Tide AP. Should be cool.
Is there any way that I could get you to fire some of your notes off to me at ajs at ajs (that's the domain) dot com?
I'm about to start my game at chapter 4 (I think I said 6 somewhere, that was a typo), introducing the players into the middle of things.
Actually a lot of what I have are hand written notes made during running the SCAP (the first 2 adventures so far) and from posts made here on the boards. I really would like to type them up and put them online but I am unsure when I will get around to it. If you have any specific questions about things that you are worried about in the game with relation to Greyhawk you can always ask them here and plenty of people will chime in.
Second, I realise that there's a lot in the SCAP that doesn't ideally fit where Cauldron eventually ended up in the Flanaess and that some twisting and turning is required to get it all to fit. Lassiviren's done a good job at that. I was coming at it from a more change-Cauldron-to-fit-the-Flanaess that he was.
The SB wouldn't necessarily have to conquer either city by force. There was a time when they were known for getting their way through subterfuge and deception...
The fact that the cities are legacies of the Imperium (and might be the gateways to routes through the Hellfurnaces into the Sea of Dust) would make them objects of desire for the SB. They don't have a lot of strategic importance (in the big picture of controling the Azure Sea, at least) - so perhaps that (and logistic and operation concerns) is why the SB didn't storm in there with a fleet and army.
Climate: Agreed that it'd be cooler than the jungle lowland - but they'd still get a heck of a lot of rain (probably seasonally, given the latitude). Once you get up significantly onto the slopes of the Hellfurances, the lowland rainforest is going to give way to montane rainforest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_forest
And good example at roughly the same latitude (albeit south of the equator) is the Bolivian Yungas:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/wildworld/profiles/terrestrial/nt/nt0105.html
The SB wouldn't necessarily have to conquer either city by force. There was a time when they were known for getting their way through subterfuge and deception...
A good point, and an oversight in my posting. I'll fix that on my Wiki's Cauldron-area notes...
Climate: Agreed that it'd be cooler than the jungle lowland - but they'd still get a heck of a lot of rain (probably seasonally, given the latitude).
Indeed! And after all, that's entirely what Flood Season is all about (chapter 3 of the adventure, if you haven't read it).
Once you get up significantly onto the slopes of the Hellfurances, the lowland rainforest is going to give way to montane rainforest
Yep. I think this is between the two. Wet seasonally due to the tropical lattitude, but drier than one might expect. This is quite common for bowl-shaped topographies in the midst of warm climates.
I do think that the cultural elements need tweeking. The Cauldron in the books is too european. I think it needs a few Asian and Central-American touches to better blend in the surrounding cultures of the Amedio and Nippon. Anyone have any ideas on folding those in?
I do think that the cultural elements need tweeking. The Cauldron in the books is too european. I think it needs a few Asian and Central-American touches to better blend in the surrounding cultures of the Amedio and Nippon. Anyone have any ideas on folding those in?
Not sp sure about contacts with "Nippon" or Zahind - there's a lot of hostile jungle in between - but certainly there'd be contact with Amedian Suel and Olmans.
P.
The SB wouldn't necessarily have to conquer either city by force. There was a time when they were known for getting their way through subterfuge and deception...
The fact that the cities are legacies of the Imperium (and might be the gateways to routes through the Hellfurnaces into the Sea of Dust) would make them objects of desire for the SB. They don't have a lot of strategic importance (in the big picture of controling the Azure Sea, at least) - so perhaps that (and logistic and operation concerns) is why the SB didn't storm in there with a fleet and army.
Basically I decided that there was a rather quick means of migration from the Suel Imperium to Sasserine (and if you look at the maps it seems like there would be realistically anyway) when the migrations began. Prior to the Rain of Colorless Fire many of the Suel went this way primarily due to omens from their deities, Jascar in particular would have abandoned the Suel Imperium long before the Twin Cataclysms. But once the Rain set off the Crystalmists into the region of active volcanoes they are now that pass was pretty much sealed (hence Slerotin and his infamous tunnel becomes necessary). This also has the happy side effect of giving a semi-realistic reason for why Suel migrants would even attempt such a ludicrous trip south along the Hellfurnaces to the Amedio, something I could never fathom. Cauldron's continued existence is pretty much solely the result of Nidrama's actions, which my PC's will find out about when they get to that part of the campaign.
So I basically figured the SB didn't give Cauldron and Sasserine much credence except to snoop around (and in the case of Cauldron their spies are subverted by the Cagewrights) and then it became an after thought once the Hold of Sea Princes blew up in their faces.
http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-559688.html
http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=776
I also had Crazy Jared be an ancient Suel refugee from the Forgotten City in the Sea of Dust. Whatever happened to him there made him crazy, and Anduria is the name of a small group of Suloise bandits operating in the Sea of Dust.