Through most of the series everyone is looking for Tas, and a big deal is made about him having to go back to his own time and dying when Choas steps on him. Now near the end of Vanished Moon Tas of course does go back and die, but nothing really happens or changes because of his choice. What was the point, why did he have to go back and let Choas step on him? How would the events at the end of the book changed if he hadn't gone back? I liked the story and though Tas wrestling with the choice was handled and written very well, but I don't see the point of it.
Now near the end of Vanished Moon Tas of course does go back and die, but nothing really happens or changes because of his choice.
Nothing changed because he went back to fulfill his destiny. Something bad™ would have happened if he hadn't, but we don't get to see what it might have been because he did. That's the mess time travel creates. :whatsthis
That story line was built up quite a bit but had no pay off.
Greygem races (Kender, Gnomes, Dwarves) *can* effect the River of Time. They are infused with the essence of Chaos. They are akin to gigantic boulders hurled into the River of Time. Without the utmost care, they can completely throw off the flow of the River.
Hence why Tasselhoff had to go back to be crushed by Chaos. Every minute he spent in "the future" could have exceptionally averse consequences to the entirety of the timestream.
-TRRW
Why did Takhisis need/want him to die in the "present"? What didn't she want to happen by allowing Tas to die in his own him? Cause when he did, nothing changed.
Why did the gods want him to die in his own time, again when he did nothing changed.
As Astinus once wrote, "As above, Darkwatch Rising 20, the world ends."
-TRRW
Had he died in the present, Chaos would have won the Chaos war. As such, there would be no Krynn left. Or the non-Takhisis Krynn gods. They'd've all been killed, leaving Takhisis to rule over the Krynn that she stole, away from Chaos, away from her now dead siblings.
As Astinus once wrote, "As above, Darkwatch Rising 20, the world ends."
Except Tas was already dead (remember, he saw his ghost outside the Tower in book 2) and they'd already defeated Choas. And even if he wasn't dead and alive at the sametime, by coming foward in the first place he would have created a world where the Krynn gods where dead, and that clearly wasn't the case.
Ya, but the Gods (twice) and Mina/Takhisis, and Dalamar and Palin etc.... all talk about Tas having to go back to die in his own time. Sargas says they need to force him to go back and Paladine says he'll have the choice etc... Clearly Tas has to go back to die for some reason, but I have no idea what that reason is.
Seen my Dark Disciple Trilogy??? I think you have a good theory there....Mina is Tahkisis in human form and the actual Tahkisis that died was somebody else or Mina. What does everyone else think? Mina is Tahkisis in Disguise and playing everyone for a fool. Why else raise the tower of high sorcery....What does it mean when Tahkisis says, "Waht I have caused cannot be undone you fool" Or something to that effect.
It will be a sad, sad day if Takhisis returns. Her hairbrained schemes either need to get some better planning, or she actually needs to succede in killing off all the Kender.
-TRRW
Seen my Dark Disciple Trilogy??? I think you have a good theory there....Mina is Tahkisis in human form and the actual Tahkisis that died was somebody else or Mina. What does everyone else think? Mina is Tahkisis in Disguise and playing everyone for a fool. Why else raise the tower of high sorcery....What does it mean when Tahkisis says, "Waht I have caused cannot be undone you fool" Or something to that effect.
I just mean that the both of them were looking.
Paging Dalamar to wherever the crap Mina is.
-TRRW
As a corollary, Mina is also not retarded enough to be Takhisis. Her schemes are a little less hairbrained and a bit more likely to work. No, I feel that Mina will best be served with an Abyssal Lance through the head and an Implosion spell cast on her barely twitching corpse.
Paging Dalamar to wherever the crap Mina is.
-TRRW
Wow, I just don't get it. I have yet to read Amber and Iron, but I love Mina so far. I know I am in the minority, but MW seems to really have a feel for Mina, and I think that really shines through in the writing.
I think she is a fantastic character, and has even replaced Raistlin as my favorite DL persona.
WoS spoilers
Mina is definitely not Takhisis though. As was mentioned, IIRC, MW was adamant, much to my disappointment, that the Dark Queen is dead. (It would be interesting to know what happened to her soul though. Did it get kicked to the Abyss for eternal torment by those who used to serve her?) Also, she laid Takhisis to rest herself in a now-lost tomb. Plus, it would have been tough to explain how Taki took a puncture wound to the gut right in front of Mina, and resulted in Mina causiing a mortal wound of her own.
I have no true basis for my hatred, it's just a feeling I get deep down.
Now, had Mina never abandoned Takhisis even after her death; and used all her power to strike down the servants of every other evil deity on Krynn, then I may have had more respect for her.
She just seems to be a character that I'm destined to hate; like Sturm or Tasselhoff. There's my explaination on why she needs to be lanced and implosioned.
-TRRW
Oh, don't get me wrong, Margaret Weis has written her wonderfully. She did the same with Sturm Brightblade. I hate both of them with a firey passion. I will do the same dance of victory when Mina dies as I did for Sturm. There will be a party, and you'll all be invited.
So which characters do you like?
I'm sure I could guess by the user name, but still. Mina and Sturm don't have a lot in common other than their convictions.
Cheers,
Cam
And yeah, Justarius was cool, hence why I stole'd his robe color as my name.
-TRRW
Except Tas was already dead (remember, he saw his ghost outside the Tower in book 2) and they'd already defeated Choas. And even if he wasn't dead and alive at the sametime, by coming foward in the first place he would have created a world where the Krynn gods where dead, and that clearly wasn't the case.
By going back to die at his destined time, he sets up a loop in time. So he can exist in 2 places at the same time. The version of him that died, per his promise appears as a ghost. The version of him that has not died yet sees his own spirit. If he broke the time loop, the live Tas would not have seen the spirit version of himself. The fact that he did, alludes to the fact that Tas wouldl ultimately keep his promise to Fizban and die in the war against Chaos. The same kinda thing if you were to go back say a month or whatever in time, you'd see another version of yourself.
If Tas stuck around for any length of time beyond what he had to do, it would have increased the risk of something happening, and preventing his return to face his destiny under the foot of Chaos and bringing the war to an end. He was already much older than most kender, so he could stick around till he died of natural causes. An unfortunate accident could have befallen him as is the way of Kender. He could have lost the device of time-journeying, etc etc. Best to get the mission complete and go back to face the 'bunions of fate'
It's pretty much just Sturm, Mina, and Tas that I dislike. Everyone else seems cool. :P
And yeah, Justarius was cool, hence why I stole'd his robe color as my name.
-TRRW
You like the limping wizard, but dislike Tas?
Now Sturm, I can admit, the first time I read Chronicles I didn't like much. Then I began to look at him as more than just a stiff knight protecting some rigid codex. When given a chance to reveal himself as a character, he is very deep, and the unspoken feelings between him and Alhana are deep. (Even disliking him, the first time I read Chronicles, I almost wept when Sturm was struck down. Dislike him or not, he went down fighting for his people, with honor.)
I don't understand the hatred of Mina, like I said. She has become my favorite DL character. She is probably the deepest of all Ms. Weis' characters.
The difference between Mina and Sturm, a major one at that, is that Sturm was willing to die for his convictions. I dont see Mina as that dedicated to anything or anyone.
If you don't think Mina has convictions that she adheres to read War of Souls again. How many times does Takhisis punish her, yet the young girl continues to give her body and soul to the Dark Queen? Also, please don't forget the scene with Goldmoon, when Takhisis is revealed to her as the One God. Mina was a child devoutly loyal to the one she considered her mother. Granted, she was severely disillusioned, but that doesn't change the fact that she tried to bring a god back to her mother, in the hope that it would bring her comfort and fill a void left by Paladine.
And as far as Tas, how can you not like him? I am no fan of any demi-human (going back to the old D&D boxed sets, for elves, dwarves, and halflings having levels A,B,C etc. after it being explicit that they could only advance half as far as humans, but that is my own hangup.) As far as Tas though, I didn't like him at the very start for the fact that he was a demi-human, but by the time he was controlling a wicker dragon, he was already special to me.
I'm just curious why you don't like these characters. Is it just one of those "just cuz" situations? I'm not trying to say you should or shouldn't feel the way you do, I'm just curious as to why. Sorry, I guess I was too into literature classes throughout high school and college. I dig pretty deep into stories, and the emotions they evoke in people.
sorry if i seemed to forcefull with my knowlege
There is a fundamental problem with the death of Takhisis; though her physical body is dead, she still possess avatars which did not die. The reasoning behind hiding her in a vale of forgetfullness is so that the afore mentioned avatars do not try to bring her back, reinstateing her to Godhood (albeit at greatly reduced levels of power).
Though many could quite easily pass off this theory as a game fundalmental vs. actual story telling, the truth is she was a God whose ultimate power actually resided outside the material plane. Her strongest avatars would be from her home plane, and thus would still be working on ways to bring the dead Goddess back. As a technical side note, Mina and Takhisis were partially the same person due to the way Avatars work (please refer to the Avatars section in Deities & Demigods). Sorry if my explaination seems forced or confrontational.
Seriously, how hard would that have been to type? There are these little things called punctuation marks that allow readers to know when one thought ends and another begins. You should look into using them in future posts. I promise, it will come easier with time.
As to your theory, I have to refute it on the basis that Takhisis was stripped of her Godhood before being slain, and as such would have lost any Avatars she possessed. Even if the Avatars had survived, they would be without the power that fueled their abilities; much like a cleric of Takhisis after her death.
Besides, Mina wasn't an Avatar, she was a cleric. More prescisely, a Cleric/Righteous Zealot/Master Tactician or something to that extent.
For more information about the deities of the Dragonlance campaign setting, please put down "Deities & Demigods" and check out "Holy Order of the Stars" by Sovereign press.
-TRRW