I remember finding some calendar or maybe a calculator for determining the Moon phases of both Ral and Guthay, but I can't seem to find it again. Anyone here has it, or knows where it is?
Here is a direct link to the program file.
Great little application - sees a lot of use for my home games
.Just out of curiosity, does anybody use the moon cycles for anything other than flavor?
It is very tempting to use it to influence magic .......
but then you run the risk of it becoming a little too DL.
The only way i have ever used it was using the waxing and waning of Athas's twin moons to influence the behaviour of the Thri Kreen.
It works really well if you use the more feral varieties.
The fuller the moons towards a convergance the more driven, hungry and wild the kreen become.
Now if you then worked this into a Kreen Invasion metaplot ....... eek !!!
Just a thought ... :D
f.
Just out of curiosity, does anybody use the moon cycles for anything other than flavor?
Yes, In my campaign, they had to go kill a monster under a certain moon phase. Putting mathematic in rpg is fun.
Yes, In my campaign, they had to go kill a monster under a certain moon phase. Putting mathematic in rpg is fun.
Yay, math (...and science)! On a related but totally different subject, I was once in a MechWarrior game where, for whatever reason, our jumpship ended up with a cargo hold full of individually-wrapped cheeses. The GM was really good about giving us full statistics about any pertinent planets we stopped at, and one of my co-players was a middle-school teacher that taught, amongst other things, science. So anyhoo, one evening the teacher-friend and I got bored with what was going on in the game, and so ignored the GM for over an hour while we worked out the math (using the planetary data he'd provided us, as well as the tonnage of the individually-wrapped cheeses) so that we could form the cheese into a huge sphere, cover it with bright blue LED lights, and jetison it into space at the right angle and velocity to achieve a stable orbit around the planet.
The GM didn't find our bue moon (...made out of cheese), complete with the physics needed to keep in in orbit, nearly as amusing as we did. *sigh*
I like that... I would love to see a 3.5 version of one if it exists
See the Monster Manual II.
Just out of curiosity, does anybody use the moon cycles for anything other than flavor?
Lighting at night. That's actually why I wanted the calendar. The amount of moonlight affects vision at night and visibility ranges for night encounters.
I don't want to be negative about anyone's work, and surely that calendar required some work, but either this doesn't work, or the moons of Athas have really weird orbits.
For one thing, you get whole 30 day months without any moons at all at night. Worse, you get several successive days where guthay eclipses the sun all day long. I'm not an astronomer, but I have a feeling moons orbiting a planet don't have the same kind of cycle as the sun the planet orbits around, which is also why eclipses last a matter of minutes on Earth. Anyways. Think I'll improvise.
By the way, can anyone reference me a few descriptions of Athas's calendar? I have these on hand:
- Ivory Triangle's Merchant Calendar.
- Dark Sun Second Edition's Age of Heroes description of Time in Chapter 8.
I was wondering because the Calendar above suggested months of 30 days divided into 5 weeks of 6 days each, with the names 1day, 2day, 3day... These just ring a bell, but I can't remember from where. Anyone has any idea where the names oneday, twoday, threeday... came from (for the Dark Sun setting)?
Hmm. It seems that wont do.
I don't want to be negative about anyone's work, and surely that calendar required some work, but either this doesn't work, or the moons of Athas have really weird orbits.
Yeah, they're a little odd. I tend to gloss over that in my own games... ;)
I was wondering because the Calendar above suggested months of 30 days divided into 5 weeks of 6 days each, with the names 1day, 2day, 3day... These just ring a bell, but I can't remember from where. Anyone has any idea where the names oneday, twoday, threeday... came from (for the Dark Sun setting)?
That's from the section on the Merchant's Calendar/Calendar of Nibenay in the City State of Nibenay book from Ivory Triangle (pages 8 and 9). A strange place to put it, but there you go
.Hmm. It seems that wont do.
I don't want to be negative about anyone's work, and surely that calendar required some work, but either this doesn't work, or the moons of Athas have really weird orbits.
For one thing, you get whole 30 day months without any moons at all at night. Worse, you get several successive days where guthay eclipses the sun all day long. I'm not an astronomer, but I have a feeling moons orbiting a planet don't have the same kind of cycle as the sun the planet orbits around, which is also why eclipses last a matter of minutes on Earth. Anyways. Think I'll improvise.
By the way, can anyone reference me a few descriptions of Athas's calendar? I have these on hand:
- Ivory Triangle's Merchant Calendar.
- Dark Sun Second Edition's Age of Heroes description of Time in Chapter 8.
I was wondering because the Calendar above suggested months of 30 days divided into 5 weeks of 6 days each, with the names 1day, 2day, 3day... These just ring a bell, but I can't remember from where. Anyone has any idea where the names oneday, twoday, threeday... came from (for the Dark Sun setting)?
Ivory Triangle. Nibenay, I think.
I'm not sure if the 30 day months really represents one of the moons, since that calendar has intercalary days, which would not work with a lunar phase, IMO.
Which is also why I figured there were 6 x 5-day weeks per month. I don't have the Ivory Triangle on hand - does it actually say that a week is 6 days long, or does it leave that unspecified?
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As for in-game uses, I just ad-hoc the moon phases, although I have used their positions at least once: I had a mini-adventure involving a silt cleric that was conducting a ritual on an evening in which Ral and Guthay were in a position that was benefitial to casting elemental rituals, like I said it was ad-hoc and I didn't describe it beyond that but it was a useful tool as far as creating an interesting setting for the encounter (silt storm at night, with lots of arcing energy from the ritual creating a bluish glow through the haze...)
Since the year is 375 days, I would suggest making the phases of one moon 15 days, and phases on the other moon 25 days. That way if you use the moon phases to determine lighting, you only need to make a 1-year chart. I've tried it a few times, but it gets complicated when you start trying to figure out moonrise and moonset times, on top of the phase information.
Perhaps a "week" might correspond to the cycle of moonrises and moonsettings. These wouldn't synch to day and night, so you might calculate the first day of the week as the day when Guthay right as the sun is setting. (i.e. the best night of the week for night travel).
I've been thinking of putting lunar lighting info into one of our Lost Cities projects; is there interest?
Perhaps a "week" might correspond to the cycle of moonrises and moonsettings. These wouldn't synch to day and night, so you might calculate the first day of the week as the day when Guthay right as the sun is setting. (i.e. the best night of the week for night travel).
Given the other "axis/tilt" thread this statement just gave me a horribly complicated idea: What if the calendar, and the concept of a "day," is based only on "is there enough light to work by?" and doesn't directly relate to whether or not it's the moons or the sun that are currently up? I don't recall ever seeing anything that says that a day on Athas is comprised of a certain number of hours, just that they measure time in days, and there's a definite "night" versus "noon" or "morning," etc. And, if you give credence to the various Dark Sun pictures showing the moons, they're f'ing huge...and with both of them visible at night (due to sunlight reflecting off of them Edit: Er...duh. Glad I explained this. *sigh*) that could make for a lot of additional hours both at dawn and dusk where the sun may be down but there's still quite a bit of light to be had.
So, the overly-complicated-and-therefor-probably-bad idea goes like this: A day is measured as the point when a definite shadow can be created on a sundial or what-have-you (some similar archaic way of measuring light levels), and ends when there's no longer enough light to do this. So, depending on the cycle of the moons, a day's length can vary dramatically, and even a slight increase in the "height" of the sun (as noted between the different seasons, High Sun, Low Sun, etc.) could greatly increase/decrease the visible light that is reflected off of the moons. With a concept of "a day" based on this, then a week truly would be based on the cycle of the moon - it starts when, say, the "day" is shortest (the moons are positioned in such a way that it gets dark, quick), mid-week is when both moons are full(-ish) thus making for a late dusk and early dawn, and ends as they cycle back down. Throw in festival weeks every 4 months, when say the two moon cycles correspond in such a way that as one waxes and the other wanes they give a combined light total that is "the best it can be" (so, all-told, makes for an entire week of decently long, same-length days, more or less) and you've an explaination for that part of the calendar as well.
*wipes sweat from brow*
Thinking on a Monday makes my brain hurt. I should probably go do some work now, instead.
[INDENT]Calendar of the Trembling Plains
Unlike most regions of known Athas, the Trembling Plains vary strikingly from season to season, and there are five discernable seasons, or Quinths, of 75 days. (The times for these seasons are identical to the Urikite calendar, which also uses the word quinth, but Urik gives the quinths different names.) ...
Why a Quinth?
A fifth of an Athasian Year, 75 days, synchronizes Ral’s 25 phase cycle with Guthay’s 15 phase cycle, and also coordinates the periods of the rising and setting of the moons. The Quinth Calendar allows travelers to determine what the night’s lighting will be, weather aside. It also allows elves to determine which nights will give them the greatest advantage over races that do not enjoy low-light vision. For example, Elves refer to the 9th and 10th, and the 39th and 40th day of every Quinth as “The Feast of Ral,” two consecutive days for raiding those not fortunate enough to be born elven.
Elves and people of this region consider a new day to start at dawn. For purposes of splitting the duty of standing guard, they break the night up into three different periods of time, imaginatively named “Firstwatch,” “Secondwatch,” and “Thirdwatch.” For example, if someone says that he expects bandits to attack some time during Firstwatch, she means at some time between sunset and midnight. “During Secondwatch” would mean between midnight and 4 AM, and “during Thirdwatch” would mean between 4 AM an sunrise. On the other hand, something that occurs “at Thirdwatch,” occurs right at 4AM; something that occurs “by Secondwatch” occurs at or before midnight; something that occurs “After Firstwatch” after the end of Firstwatch, i.e. after midnight.
The calendar of the Trembling Plains has a five-day week based on Guthay’s rising and setting cycle.
On FirstNight, Guthay rises at noon.
On Secondnight, Guthay sets after Thirdwatch (8AM), and then sees Guthay rise again at Thirdwatch (4AM).
On Thirdnight, Guthay sets at Secondwatch (Midnight).
On Fourthnight, Guthay rises at Firstwatch.
On Elfnight, Guthay sets in the afternoon, and is absent all night from the sky, which is why it is called “Elfnight:” with Guthay absent from the sky, those with low-light vision have the advantage.[/INDENT]
at this point the large chart starts,
Day of Qinth|Ral Phase|Ral Position|1st Watch|2nd Watch|3rd Watch|Guthay Phase|Guthay Position.
Under Ral Phase and Guthay Phase I have nifty little icons for the different states of the moon, e.g crescent, half-moon, etc.
Under position, you get info like "Ral rises at mid-day, Guthay sets at Dusk" etc.
Under 1st watch, 2nd watch, 3rd watch, you get whether the combined light of both moons is equivalent to full daylight, Dusk, DMG "moonlight", or DMG starlight/overcast.
For example, nights # 1,4, 41, 46, and 61 of every quinth have the equivalent of full daylight for visibilty purposes, all night, because both moons are in the sky all night and Guthay is full.
OTOH, the "Feast of Ral" nights mentioned above, plus a couple other individual nights, have no visible moons all night long.
Most days have a mix. For example night #47 has nothing but starlight for the first watch, then some moonlight as a half-Ral rises at midnight, and then the equivalent of full daylight wnen Guthay rises at about 4AM.
Would that be worth 2 pages of printing, or should I leave it out?