Suggestions?
Havard
Suggestions?
Any that Marco hasn't translated yet ;)
Seriously though, Ilsundal and Thantos spring to mind.
Terra. I belive she goes be several other names which escape me at the moment.
TERRA (Mother Earth, Yamuga, Yamag, Cay, Marau-Ixuì) - Thanks Marco
Regards
Gary
If I wanted to produce a small list of Immortals with descriptions, for a campaign covering the Known World, including Sind, Wendar, Heldann and the Isle of Dawn, but not Alphatia or any of the Thyatian colonies or Norwold, which Immortals would be essential? I would like the list to be a small as possible, excluding Immortals who are mainly concerned with the HW or other regions. Ka and Korotiku are gone, as are all obscure ones, including most of the ones from the 'Other Immortals' section in WotI, but at the same time I would like to include at least one of the Halfling Heroes for instance.
Including Sind means including almost all Immortals.
Anyway:
Halav, Petra, Zirchev, Vanya, Valerias, Ilsundal, Kagyar, Asterius, Protius, Al Kalim, Pflarr, Odin, Thor, Frey, Freyja, Loki, Hel, Thanatos, Ranivorous, Wogar, Kaarash, Yammudaru, Yagrai, Bartziluth, Terra, Ixion, Cretia, the Korrigan, the Twelve Watchers, Calitha, Ordana, Minroth, Rad, Alphaks, Razud (or whoever is providing spells to Bruce McGregor and Simon d'Ambreville), Atruaghin, Ahmanni, Atzanteotl, Hattani, Danel Tigerstripes, Takhati, Mahmatti, Rathanos, Aracne Prime, Mealiden, Rafiel, Idris, Nob Nar (and perhaps the other Hin High Heroes).
And that's excluding Thyatis entirely (otherwise, you'd have to add at least Tarastia, Diulanna, Koryis, and Korotiku), and considering only human and goblinoid powers -- of course there are dragons and other beings around who worship other Immortals (e.g., there are Rakasta in the Kurish Massif who probably worship Ka or perhaps Bastet).
You could probably cut the list down somewhat by removing obscure Immortals (e.g. Pflarr) or those interested in a single nation and with little impact on the neighbouring lands (Atruaghin and his group), but I don't think the list could be restricted to less than 20 immortals.
You could probably cut the list down somewhat by removing obscure Immortals (e.g. Pflarr) or those interested in a single nation and with little impact on the neighbouring lands (Atruaghin and his group), but I don't think the list could be restricted to less than 20 immortals.
Well, if I can get it down to 20 Immortals even that would be quite good. My idea was that all countries and character types should have some representation, though I would not include every immortal for this or that country.
Looking at the names you provide:
Including Sind means including almost all Immortals.
Anyway:
Halav, Petra, Zirchev, Vanya, Valerias, Ilsundal, Kagyar, Asterius, Protius, Al Kalim, Pflarr, Odin, Thor, Frey, Freyja, Loki, Hel, Thanatos, Ranivorous, Wogar, Kaarash, Yammudaru, Yagrai, Bartziluth, Terra, Ixion, Cretia, the Korrigan, the Twelve Watchers, Calitha, Ordana, Minroth, Rad, Alphaks, Razud (or whoever is providing spells to Bruce McGregor and Simon d'Ambreville), Atruaghin, Ahmanni, Atzanteotl, Hattani, Danel Tigerstripes, Takhati, Mahmatti, Rathanos, Aracne Prime, Mealiden, Rafiel, Idris, Nob Nar (and perhaps the other Hin High Heroes).
And that's excluding Thyatis entirely (otherwise, you'd have to add at least Tarastia, Diulanna, Koryis, and Korotiku), and considering only human and goblinoid powers -- of course there are dragons and other beings around who worship other Immortals (e.g., there are Rakasta in the Kurish Massif who probably worship Ka or perhaps Bastet).
I figured if Ixion is included, then Sind at least has some representation, and I really want Ixion in there of various reasons. IMC he is also central in Thyatian worship, even though he was not mentioned in DotE.
Pflarr would definately go, as would Razud, Cretia, Arachne Prime, Rathanos, the Korrigans, The Twelve Watchers. and the Athruagin Clan Immortals other than Athruagin himself. Ka would also definately be out, in spite of his important status outside the Known World, though I like the idea of bringing in Bastet, especially if the Rakasta get a more central role in the campaign, as they probably should get.
Also more dramatically, I thought about geting rid of Freyj, Freyja and Mealiden as well as most of the humanoid patrons. Not really sure which entropics to leave and which to keep though.
Note that they wouldnt be removed from the campaign, simply from the list of those Immortals judged as less important and thus not be given a full description in a player's handout. Players shouldnt get too extensive handouts since at least to my experience that will mean they wont read them anyway. :P
Havard
Karameikos - Halav, Petra, Zirchev. That's three, and with broad enough spheres of influence to be generally usable outside of the big K as well.
Ylaruam - Al-Kalim. Whether Protius is needed as a sponsor of Al-Kalim is up to you.
Glantri - Rad. Simple.
Ierendi - Uhm. Valerias would be a solid choice here, or just have them cheerfully erect temples to whatever Immortals the tourists like best.
Alfheim - Ilsundal, maybe Mealiden.
Rockhome - Kagyar.
Northern Reaches - Odin, Thor and Loki. Potentially just Odin as patron of kings, if Loki-as-a-villain isn't needed for your campaign.
Five Shires - Nob Nar. Save the other High Heroes for when your PCs decide to retire to the Shires.
Minrothad - Asterius, for the traders, and Ordana, for the elves.
Darokin - Get everyone else's leftovers, as usual. In particular, Asterius, Petra (as a patron of crafters), a warrior-deity, and a mage-deity.
Broken Lands - Entropics of choice, to serve as humanoid patrons and general villainous types.
Ethengar - Terra (as Yamuga), Ixion (as Tubak).
Shadow Elves - Rafiel, assuming that the 500-mile-down City of the Stars isn't in 'another region'! I'd keep him, just because it'd be interesting to see someone with Rafiel's temperament adopting an alternate identity in Darokin or Sind...
Atruaghin - Atruaghin, of course.
Wendar - Nobody new needed here. Ilsundal for the elves, Odin or a similar figure for the humans, potentially Zirchev to serve as a bridge between the two.
Heldann - If you're using the Heldannic Knights, then Vanya absolutely.
Sind - Every Immortal already existing elsewhere, given a dozen alternate masks apiece.
So the really short list - Halav, Petra, Zirchev, Al-Kalim, Rad, Valerias, Ilsundal, Kagyar, Odin, Nob Nar, Asterius, Ordana, Terra, Ixion, Rafiel, Atruaghin, Vanya, and whatever Entropics you want to add. That's seventeen plus the bad guys, and I don't think you can trim it any further than that.
Note that they wouldnt be removed from the campaign, simply from the list of those Immortals judged as less important and thus not be given a full description in a player's handout. Players shouldnt get too extensive handouts since at least to my experience that will mean they wont read them anyway. :P
Of course. But then, it would be better to tailor the handout on the campaign's starting point -- if the PCs come from Karameikos, then it would make sense to put in Chardastes and remove Atruaghin, for example.
Also, some religions (the Eternal Truth, the Church of Thyatis) are widely known even outside their home nation, while others (the dwarven cult of Kagyar) are almost unknown. Not to mention Rad, who is not known as an Immortal even in his own nation!
So, assuming a campaign centered in Karameikos, I'd go with the following:
Native: Halav, Petra, Zirchev, Vanya, Ilsundal, Kagyar, Asterius, Valerias.
Well known: Protius, Al Kalim, Tarastia, Ixion, Odin, Thor.
Neighbouring nations and minor local Immortals: Nob Nar, Korotiku, Koryis, Twelve Watchers, Garal, Chardastes.
But, if the campaign was centered in the Northern Reaches, I'd use this list:
Native: Odin, Thor, Frey, Freyja, Loki, Protius/Nooga and Hel.
Well known: Al Kalim, Vanya, Ixion, Terra.
Neighbouring nations and minor local Immortals: Kagyar, Garal, Thanatos, Ranivorous, Kurtulmak, Cretia, Tarastia, Valerias/Frigg, Forseti.
Alternately, one could use extended local pantheons, such as this one for the Northern Reaches:
http://pandius.com/nrthpant.html
GP
So the really short list - Halav, Petra, Zirchev, Al-Kalim, Rad, Valerias, Ilsundal, Kagyar, Odin, Nob Nar, Asterius, Ordana, Terra, Ixion, Rafiel, Atruaghin, Vanya, and whatever Entropics you want to add. That's seventeen plus the bad guys, and I don't think you can trim it any further than that.
This is the best list I have seen so far. You are right that making a list of less than 20 immortals for 15+ countries is tricky, but this one should work. I'd even remove Rad since as you say he really isnt know by most mortals and not worshipped anywhere. IMC I have Ixion seen as a patron of magic outside of Glantri.
Giampaolo: good points regarding tailor made lists depending on the campaign, but for this one I was looking for a Known World spanning campaign where characters from all KW countries are available as possible pcs.
Havard
Giampaolo: good points regarding tailor made lists depending on the campaign, but for this one I was looking for a Known World spanning campaign where characters from all KW countries are available as possible pcs.
You might still have to tailor the list somewhat, since it'd not be reasonable that a PC from the Five Shires knew, say, Rafiel but not Coberham or the other High Heroes.
It would be just tailoring for each PC rather than for the whole group...
You might still have to tailor the list somewhat, since it'd not be reasonable that a PC from the Five Shires knew, say, Rafiel but not Coberham or the other High Heroes.
It would be just tailoring for each PC rather than for the whole group...
You have a point. I'd still like to have a general version that I can show people before they make their characters, but it might be a good idea to have tailored lists for each player. A bit more work though ;)
Havard