Silly Thought of the Day!

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zenrak

Jul 18, 2006 14:05:13
What if a dwarf's focus... was to become a banshee?
#2

dirk00001

Jul 18, 2006 14:30:50
Then that dwarf is certifiably crazy.
#3

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 23, 2006 14:05:33
And what would happen if he died and did not become a banshee? :P
#4

dirk00001

Jul 23, 2006 21:41:31
And what would happen if he died and did not become a banshee? :P

Even worse: Since the dwarf has to fail at completing a major focus in order to become a banshee, then he can't become a banshee by succeeding at his focus; but he can't fail at his focus either as that'd make him a banshee and thus result in his focus succeeding, which, as previously stated, wouldn't result in him becoming a banshee.

Thanks to quantum physics and causality, I'm pretty sure this means that we can either know that a dwarf's focus is or is not "to become a banshee" or we can know if the dwarf has died and become a banshee or not, but we can't know both. The more certain we are about one ("I'm pretty sure Klum is focused on becoming a banshee, that silly twit"), the less certain we are about the other ("Wait a minute there, Jaral - didn't Klum get eaten by a pack of ravenous dune reapers a couple years back?").

Once again quantum physics saves the day. Hurray, quantum physics!
#5

zenrak

Jul 23, 2006 23:49:02
This hurts my head.
#6

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 24, 2006 6:24:25
Perhaps the stability of the time-space continuum will become jeopardized and Athas will cease to exist.
#7

zenrak

Jul 24, 2006 13:30:19
Perhaps the stability of the time-space continuum will become jeopardized and Athas will cease to exist.

Don't let's the Dwarves know that. It would just take one inbalanced dwarf to cease existance. Some might prefer nothingness to Athas. (Can someone say Dogma?)
#8

dirk00001

Jul 24, 2006 13:56:47
Possibly, Jon, although it'd likely only destabilize one of the many Athasian universes in the multiverse of quantum possibilities. The benefit of that is that it's always someone else's universe that ceases to exist - after all, if you destroyed your own, there wouldn't be anyone left to confirm it's destruction, eh?
#9

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 24, 2006 15:29:31
Don't let's the Dwarves know that. It would just take one inbalanced dwarf to cease existance. Some might prefer nothingness to Athas. (Can someone say Dogma?)

There´s a reason Rajaat wanted them killed. Now we know!
#10

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 24, 2006 15:30:59
Possibly, Jon, although it'd likely only destabilize one of the many Athasian universes in the multiverse of quantum possibilities. The benefit of that is that it's always someone else's universe that ceases to exist - after all, if you destroyed your own, there wouldn't be anyone left to confirm it's destruction, eh?

Does this mean I can destroy someone else´s campaign if I kill a dwarf with focus to become a banshee in my campaign? Cool. :P
#11

dirk00001

Jul 24, 2006 16:12:08
Does this mean I can destroy someone else´s campaign if I kill a dwarf with focus to become a banshee in my campaign? Cool. :P

Hm.

My next DS campaign is this Friday - I'll make a point of introducing a dwarven NPC with that focus, only to have him summarily devoured by a hungry mekillot. I suggest you do the same, just to give us more potential experimental data to work with.

Everyone else:
If your campaign ceases to exist sometime late Friday evening, or any other time for that matter, please note the details in this thread so we can discuss. In fact, if your campaign has ever ceased to exist, at any time (past, present or future, in case you're omniscient enough to predict future campaign-annihilations), it's worth noting - quantum effects are well known for their ability to function in a non-linear fashion when it comes to the time element of spacetime, so it's possible that the mere possibility of a dwarf with the focus of becoming a banshee and dying is enough to have destroyed, destroy, or eventually destroy a campaign.
#12

zenrak

Jul 25, 2006 2:20:47
Everyone else:
If your campaign ceases to exist sometime late Friday evening, or any other time for that matter, please note the details in this thread so we can discuss. In fact, if your campaign has ever ceased to exist, at any time (past, present or future, in case you're omniscient enough to predict future campaign-annihilations), it's worth noting - quantum effects are well known for their ability to function in a non-linear fashion when it comes to the time element of spacetime, so it's possible that the mere possibility of a dwarf with the focus of becoming a banshee and dying is enough to have destroyed, destroy, or eventually destroy a campaign.

I was wondering why I had never ran a DS campaign before. Its all starting to make sense. But... I have a new concern. With each campaign that is started, the chance that a dwarf with such a focus is generated increases. Thus, I propose a restriction on the number of campaigns that be exist at anyone time.
#13

greyorm

Jul 25, 2006 4:32:03
Now I know why our DS game ended way back in the mid-90's. I should have known to blame a bunch of crazy internet geeks from a decade in the future!

But here's the real question: if the universe stops existing when space-time is destroyed, what happens to a fictional world that doesn't exist anyways? Can something that doesn't exist stop existing?

What does quantum mechanics have to say about THAT paradoxial monkey wrench?
#14

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 25, 2006 8:39:02
But here's the real question: if the universe stops existing when space-time is destroyed, what happens to a fictional world that doesn't exist anyways? Can something that doesn't exist stop existing?

Now you´re just being silly. :P
#15

dirk00001

Jul 25, 2006 10:15:38
*puts on thick glasses, a bowtie, and a labcoat* That's actually not as silly of a question as one might think. For starters, you must bear in mind that "reality" is simply a model your brain constructs, all within the confines of your head, based on what limited input it receives from the outside world (our senses are only able to perceive something like one billionth of the "stuff" out there, such as the various types of light, frequencies of sound, etc.). And, as with all models, it is only representative of a "greater thing" and cannot, by definition, be "equal to" the thing that it is modelling; a model must always be smaller than the thing it is modelling.
Given that your perception and experience of 'reality' is technically just a model, lets compare it to a DS campaign and see what we get:
1) Both are models.
2) Both represent a small piece of a much larger universe.
3) The perception of both take place entirely within your mind (be it from simple imagination or the input of external data, be it the boss that just told you to stop wasting company time and get back to work or the miniature of Gobbo the Vicious that just moved 4 squares to charge that spear-wielding gith).
4) Both contain living creatures.
5) Both follow a defined set of rules that, although seemingly knowable to a certain extent, are subject to random and unpredictable changes (DMs have the ability to 'bend the rules' and quantum physics likes to do nonsensical things like create paradoxes involving cats that are both alive and dead or moving quantum particles through solid objects, instantaneously).
6) 'Reality' is a *lot* larger, data-wise, than 'DS campaign.'

...and that's just a small number of things we can compare. Out of those, the only important one, insofar as answering the question at hand is concerned, is #5 - the relative size of the two. One might be inclined to have added a 7th comparison, something like "The input that creates our model of 'Reality' comes from an external source, whereas the input that creates a 'DS Campaign' comes from an internal source," although that'd be experimentally impossible to prove and thus incorrect; as stated before, the 'reality' we experience is constructed entirely within our heads, and although we would like to think that there's some 'external reality' from which we're generating this model, there's no way to prove it.

So, in summation, a 'DS Campaign' is really just a model of a universe that's small enough to fit entirely inside of one's head, and thus can be understood in its entirety; 'reality' just happens to be too large to fit entirely within our heads, which is why we make up complicated explainations for how it all works (physics and other branches of science, religion, etc.). If it were smaller we wouldn't be guessing whether or not gravity is composed of particles or if (a) (G/g)od(s) were dancing us around the stage of life like puppets - we'd know for sure, and probably think that the piddly 3% raise we got was an abuse of the rules and that we should get to re-roll the Annual Review check.
Hence, a 'DS campaign' *does* exist, and can be destroyed like anything (and everything) else. Just in this case we'd know that it was destroyed, as opposed to not knowing that the universe was gone.
#16

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 25, 2006 13:07:42
Now *you* are just being a geek. :P
#17

zenrak

Jul 25, 2006 13:26:27
I promise never to start another thread like this again. My full apologies to the DS community. Any damage this thread may have caused is purely my responsibility, and I deserve any and all punishment.

*awaits the wrath*
#18

dirk00001

Jul 25, 2006 15:28:00
I think the appropriate punishment would be to play a dwarf with a focus to...er wait, that's already happened and the campaign ended.

Punishment served in full.

As for you, Mr. Oracle -
#19

radnovius

Jul 25, 2006 16:15:33
Thanks to quantum physics and causality, I'm pretty sure this means that we can either know that a dwarf's focus is or is not "to become a banshee" or we can know if the dwarf has died and become a banshee or not, but we can't know both. The more certain we are about one ("I'm pretty sure Klum is focused on becoming a banshee, that silly twit"), the less certain we are about the other ("Wait a minute there, Jaral - didn't Klum get eaten by a pack of ravenous dune reapers a couple years back?").

Once again quantum physics saves the day. Hurray, quantum physics!

Heisenberg would be so proud! Actually the dwarf would then become an undead known as a zenrak. These pitiful creatures creatures are doomed to sit and ask pointless philosophical questions until some merciful hero with a magic sword does them in or time ceases.

Actually a better punishment may be the following:
Henceforce all chamberpots on Athas shall be known as zenraks.
#20

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 25, 2006 16:16:43
Somebody is being silly. :P
#21

thebrax

Jul 25, 2006 16:36:13
Polymorph any object can be used to change a creature of one humanoid race permanently into another, right?

You think you could raise a few eyebrows if you polymorphed a pregnant woman into a mul?
#22

bengeldorn

Jul 25, 2006 20:01:44
I can't actually see the big problem with this question. IIRC correctly a dwarf can only choose his focus when he still is alive. If he cannot achieve his focus during his lifetime, he is doomed to fullfill his focus in his "afterlife" as a banshee.

So a dwarf, who choosed to become a banshee won't be able to fullfill his focus in his lifetime. If he dies, he has to fullfill his focus in his afterlife, ergo he becomes a banshee. Unfortunatelly for the dwarf, exactly at the same time (or a very small time after) he becomes a banshee, his focus is fullfilled and he now can rest in peace, because he had achieved becoming a banshee, even he didn't got the chance to spend any time as a banshee.

Becoming a banshee is to easy as dwarcen focus, as the dwarf only needs to kill himself or gets himself killed. IMO this wouldn't count as a major focus, because major foci should be something realy hard to achieve. Dying is easy, but staying alive isn't.
#23

dirk00001

Jul 26, 2006 9:54:44
Hmm...I hadn't looked at it that way.

Perhaps the simple, straight-forward answer wins. *shrug*

Brax: The question there is, if you polymorph a pregnant anything into something else, does it stay pregnant? If so, does the baby's race change? If you're polymorphed into an inanimate object, what happens to the baby?
#24

zenrak

Jul 26, 2006 13:44:58
I can't actually see the big problem with this question. IIRC correctly a dwarf can only choose his focus when he still is alive. If he cannot achieve his focus during his lifetime, he is doomed to fullfill his focus in his "afterlife" as a banshee.

I cannot find what resource explains that a dwarf can complete his focus as a banshee, in fact I find something that leads me to believe the opposite.

From the Second Edition Monstrous Conpendium (Dark Sun), in the dwarven banshee entry.

Dwarves who die before completing a major focus are often condemned to live out their afterlives as banshees. In unlife they haunt their unfinished work or quest, unable to bear the fact that someone else may complete what they could not.

Given this, its impossible to complete his focus. A dwaren banshee cannot "become a banshee", since he already is one. So, I guess he would just sit around haunting himself.
#25

elonarc

Jul 27, 2006 3:10:48
I come back to the forum and find this thread.

So, everything seems to be normal, nothing changed. I can sleep peacefully.

IMAGE(http://www.skuserver.com/images/pikachu.jpg)
#26

lurking_shadow

Jul 27, 2006 20:11:24
Yes, but now I won't!

Pikachu is scary...
#27

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 28, 2006 18:37:51
Kill the Defiler! Wipe them out - all of them!
#28

elonarc

Jul 28, 2006 20:40:09
Gotta catch 'em all!

IMAGE(http://ash.wz.cz/obrazky/ashichu/ashichu4.jpg)

[does his infamous pikachu dance]
#29

jon_oracle_of_athas

Jul 29, 2006 4:46:25
Gotta whack ém all.