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Ravenloft/Earth Geography

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jul 19, 2006 13:28:43 Certain domains are culturally based on real world cultures. (Borca to Italy etc.) But what regions on earth are most geographically similar to certian domains? (Does Borca's geographically resemble Italy? Does Barovia resemble Romainia? etc.)
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 19, 2006 15:25:23 You should look at the FAQ over on the Fraternity of Shadows website, they have a list of what you are looking for here Scroll down to People & Places FAQ #15.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jul 22, 2006 13:52:43
You should look at the FAQ over on the Fraternity of Shadows website, they have a list of what you are looking for here Scroll down to People & Places FAQ #15.

You misunderstand. I want to know if these similarites apply to geography as well as culture. Also, if that is the case, then a few questions are still unanswered. For example, What real world region's geography is similar to Darkon's as there is no "Genaric Fantasy World" on Earth.
#4
Mortepierre
Jul 23, 2006 3:43:46 The answer is: none.

The biggest trap for a RL newcomer is to assume that every domain out there is a disguised version of something we had on Earth (either for real or in our legends).

I remember a few threads on the FoS boards about Darkon being akin to Russia or the Germanic Empire but no conclusive proof was presented and it was more a matter of personal opinion.

While it's all good and nice to try to highlight common points, it's not always advisable as many RL cultures are 'unique' and would actually suffer from being seen as 'just a clone of X'. Darkon is one of these.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jul 29, 2006 2:38:03
Certain domains are culturally based on real world cultures. (Borca to Italy etc.) But what regions on earth are most geographically similar to certian domains? (Does Borca's geographically resemble Italy? Does Barovia resemble Romainia? etc.)

Borca to Iitaly?
Since I'm Italian, I can say that nothing at all in Borca resembles Italy or any Italian legend. If you really want something near-Italian... maybe Slovenija is the place you are looking for.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jul 29, 2006 3:50:17 Oh.
Another Italian. Hi.

Well, Borca IS based on Italy. For exaple, its old name was "Borja"... With the poison theme, the decadent aristocracy and all...
You can see where this points to.
#7
john_w._mangrum
Jul 30, 2006 9:44:22 For the record, when I wrote up Borca for the Gazetteers, I very loosely used the Borgia family in particular and late medieval Mediterranean Europe in general for inspiration.

Emphasis on very loosely.

There was also a large scattering of peripheral information that had built up around Borca over the years within Ravenloft products that needed to be taken into account.

Remember: Whenever anyone says "Domain X is Real Country Y," 99% of the time it just isn't that simple.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jul 30, 2006 16:53:57
Oh.
Another Italian. Hi.

Not only another Italian, but one that loves the same music: I bet you are a fan of Fabrizio de André!

About Borca and the Borgia family... I don't think that te poison loving rulers of a domain could justify a "domain X is basedo on real world country Y".
I see no Italian tradition in Borca: where are pizza and spaghetti? Where are sculptors, artists, architects, musicians and all the Italian culture?
As I'm more active in Mystara than in Ravenloft, I know that in Mystara there is a country based on Italy, with poison using rulers, and great artistic buildings and Italian sounding names (Caurenze, Verazzano, Lizzieni...).That's what I intend for a place based on a real world country.
#9
john_w._mangrum
Jul 31, 2006 6:02:15
Where are sculptors, artists, architects, musicians

With all due respect, did you simply skip the pages discussing Borcan architecture and patronage of the arts?
#10
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2006 7:10:01 My source: Domain and Denizens supplememntary rulebook for Ravenloft Campaign setting.

Chapter I (domains of the core), page 10-11.

Nobles' names are slavian sounding, I see no reference to arts and architecture, important settlements have names like Ilvin (not Italian), Lechberg (more German tha Italian!), Levkares (definitely not Italian, we don't have "k"), Sturben and Vor Ziyden (the last 2 sounds more Dutch than Italian!)...
That's why I see no reference to Italy...

Now I'm starting to suspect that you refer your Italian bias on another sourcebook... one I missed!
#11
zombiegleemax
Jul 31, 2006 8:01:48 John's talking about the 3e Gazetteer Volume 4.
#12
gonzoron
Jul 31, 2006 9:46:08 There's also the part about one of the world's most influential religions having the headquarters of its most traditional sect there. And the subtle mixing of church and state that arises from it.

Granted, the names aren't Italian, but the Italian flavor was added and expanded later, after the names were already set.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 19, 2006 13:28:43	Certain domains are culturally based on real world cultures. (Borca to Italy etc.) But what regions on earth are most geographically similar to certian domains? (Does Borca's geographically resemble Italy? Does Barovia resemble Romainia? etc.)
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 19, 2006 15:25:23	You should look at the FAQ over on the Fraternity of Shadows website, they have a list of what you are looking for here Scroll down to People & Places FAQ #15.
#3 zombiegleemax Jul 22, 2006 13:52:43	You should look at the FAQ over on the Fraternity of Shadows website, they have a list of what you are looking for here Scroll down to People & Places FAQ #15. You misunderstand. I want to know if these similarites apply to geography as well as culture. Also, if that is the case, then a few questions are still unanswered. For example, What real world region's geography is similar to Darkon's as there is no "Genaric Fantasy World" on Earth.
#4 Mortepierre Jul 23, 2006 3:43:46	The answer is: none. The biggest trap for a RL newcomer is to assume that every domain out there is a disguised version of something we had on Earth (either for real or in our legends). I remember a few threads on the FoS boards about Darkon being akin to Russia or the Germanic Empire but no conclusive proof was presented and it was more a matter of personal opinion. While it's all good and nice to try to highlight common points, it's not always advisable as many RL cultures are 'unique' and would actually suffer from being seen as 'just a clone of X'. Darkon is one of these.
#5 zombiegleemax Jul 29, 2006 2:38:03	Certain domains are culturally based on real world cultures. (Borca to Italy etc.) But what regions on earth are most geographically similar to certian domains? (Does Borca's geographically resemble Italy? Does Barovia resemble Romainia? etc.) Borca to Iitaly? Since I'm Italian, I can say that nothing at all in Borca resembles Italy or any Italian legend. If you really want something near-Italian... maybe Slovenija is the place you are looking for.
#6 zombiegleemax Jul 29, 2006 3:50:17	Oh. Another Italian. Hi. Well, Borca IS based on Italy. For exaple, its old name was "Borja"... With the poison theme, the decadent aristocracy and all... You can see where this points to.
#7 john_w._mangrum Jul 30, 2006 9:44:22	For the record, when I wrote up Borca for the Gazetteers, I very loosely used the Borgia family in particular and late medieval Mediterranean Europe in general for inspiration. Emphasis on very loosely. There was also a large scattering of peripheral information that had built up around Borca over the years within Ravenloft products that needed to be taken into account. Remember: Whenever anyone says "Domain X is Real Country Y," 99% of the time it just isn't that simple.
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2006 16:53:57	Oh. Another Italian. Hi. Not only another Italian, but one that loves the same music: I bet you are a fan of Fabrizio de André! About Borca and the Borgia family... I don't think that te poison loving rulers of a domain could justify a "domain X is basedo on real world country Y". I see no Italian tradition in Borca: where are pizza and spaghetti? Where are sculptors, artists, architects, musicians and all the Italian culture? As I'm more active in Mystara than in Ravenloft, I know that in Mystara there is a country based on Italy, with poison using rulers, and great artistic buildings and Italian sounding names (Caurenze, Verazzano, Lizzieni...).That's what I intend for a place based on a real world country.
#9 john_w._mangrum Jul 31, 2006 6:02:15	Where are sculptors, artists, architects, musicians With all due respect, did you simply skip the pages discussing Borcan architecture and patronage of the arts?
#10 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2006 7:10:01	My source: Domain and Denizens supplememntary rulebook for Ravenloft Campaign setting. Chapter I (domains of the core), page 10-11. Nobles' names are slavian sounding, I see no reference to arts and architecture, important settlements have names like Ilvin (not Italian), Lechberg (more German tha Italian!), Levkares (definitely not Italian, we don't have "k"), Sturben and Vor Ziyden (the last 2 sounds more Dutch than Italian!)... That's why I see no reference to Italy... Now I'm starting to suspect that you refer your Italian bias on another sourcebook... one I missed!
#11 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2006 8:01:48	John's talking about the 3e Gazetteer Volume 4.
#12 gonzoron Jul 31, 2006 9:46:08	There's also the part about one of the world's most influential religions having the headquarters of its most traditional sect there. And the subtle mixing of church and state that arises from it. Granted, the names aren't Italian, but the Italian flavor was added and expanded later, after the names were already set.