One I'd like to see, would be the World of Urt, an alternate Mystara based on the world map in the black Masters boxed set. "Urt" is the name of the planet in the Gold Box, and the planet is a living megalith. The regional boundaries shown on the Masters map would be actual political boundaries of vast realms, with the Thyatian Empire covering the entire area of the Known World.
Frank Mentzer, in his thread at Dragonsfoot, has said that he had no imput on the Mystara products outside of the boxed sets. I wonder what he would do with Urt if he were given free reign to develop it as an officially alternate Mystara?
There is a 3e Dragonlance sourcebook entitled Legends of the Twins that has an extensive chapter on alternate timelines, complete with various alternate political maps of the continent of Ansalon. I wonder what sort of alternate Mystaras would be fitting for a Mystara version.
I think an alternate future without WotI would have been something a lot of people would have liked to see...
One I'd like to see, would be the World of Urt, an alternate Mystara based on the world map in the black Masters boxed set. "Urt" is the name of the planet in the Gold Box, and the planet is a living megalith. The regional boundaries shown on the Masters map would be actual political boundaries of vast realms, with the Thyatian Empire covering the entire area of the Known World.
I still havent discared all of that IMC. Urt is just another name for Mystara and Mystara may still be a Megalith, IMC though there is no way of knowing for sure. Terra belives so.
Thyatis is once again becoming the major political/military power in the Known World region, which I guess was what Mentzer's map was suggesting. I also use most of the other regions, though some, like especially the Empire of Dorphin, has been dramatically reduced in size.
Frank Mentzer, in his thread at Dragonsfoot, has said that he had no imput on the Mystara products outside of the boxed sets. I wonder what he would do with Urt if he were given free reign to develop it as an officially alternate Mystara?
Who knowns?
Havard
Thyatis is once again becoming the major political/military power in the Known World region, which I guess was what Mentzer's map was suggesting.
I would like to ask Mentzer, being that a map of the Known World was included in the Expert Set, why in the Masters Set, did he depict Thyatis as being so big? Was it an oversight on his part, an intentional disagreement with the other oD&D designers, a vague map of areas of hegemony, or what? Also, does he have any notes or notions on what he envisioned the countries of the Masters Set map to be like? Does he remember what Real World sources inspired the names on the map? I've tried to register at Dragonsfoot, but never received a response from the administrator, so I'm not able to post yet.
I would like to ask Mentzer, being that a map of the Known World was included in the Expert Set, why in the Masters Set, did he depict Thyatis as being so big? Was it an oversight on his part, an intentional disagreement with the other oD&D designers, a vague map of areas of hegemony, or what? Also, does he have any notes or notions on what he envisioned the countries of the Masters Set map to be like? Does he remember what Real World sources inspired the names on the map? I've tried to register at Dragonsfoot, but never received a response from the administrator, so I'm not able to post yet.
How long since you tried to register? I dont remember it taking too long for me to get access there when I first decided to join. If you continue having trouble getting in there I can try getting in touch with some of the admins there for you.
You should probably ask Frank those questions yourself though. He is a pretty cool guy. Its sort of sad that circumstances prevented him from being involved in the further development of Mystara.
Havard
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10717&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1380
He gave a thoughtful response. A couple things I find particularly interesting are that the giant "Empire of Thyatis" from the Masters Set map was intentionally meant to encompass the Known World, and that Urt/Mystara was designed to have Robert E. Howard-inspired realms.
Shane
In addition to "Frank Mentzer's World of Urt", I'd like the book to detail the following historical, future, and allohistorical Mystaras, each with full outer world and Hollow World maps:
"Classic Blackmoor" would show the entire world during the Kingdom of Blackmoor era of the Zeitgeist Games' products.
"Blackmoor Modern" would be a d20 Modern setting showing Mystara at the technological height of the Blackmoor civilization...right before the Great Rain of Fire of 3000 BC.
"Alphatian Dawn" setting at 1000 BC, at the founding of Alphatia.
"Dragonlord of Mystara" setting of circa AC 500 Mystara at the time of the Dragonlord Trilogy of novels.
"James Mishler's HackWurld of Mystaros". The previews James posted on this setting were very innovative, such as where he simply deleted the vast swathes of unexplored land from the world map.
"Peace of the Immortals". Mystara where the WotI didn't happen.
"Mystaran Almanac" would show a map of Mystara according to the fanonical almanacs covering the years AC 1014-1018 (http://www.pandius.com/alm.html).
"World in Flames". Bruce Heard's timeline (located near the bottom of http://www.pandius.com/bheard.html)
"Great War" setting. AC 1200 Mystara of X4, X5, and X10.
What other alternate, historical or future eras (that is, outside of the AC1000-AC1013 time frame) are especially notable, or were actual settings for Mystaran adventures or novels?
Shane
Empire of Izmer: Land of the D&D Movie
I felt sick when I saw the first movie, but I have heard that the second movie, D&D: Wrath of the Dragon God is pretty good, so maybe it's not so embarrassing after all that Izmer is based on Alphatia. Since I'm interested in maps, I'd actually like to see what the Izmer's world map looks like.
Shane
Well, I just remembered one other alternative Mystara that I failed to mention:
Empire of Izmer: Land of the D&D Movie
I felt sick when I saw the first movie, but I have heard that the second movie, D&D: Wrath of the Dragon God is pretty good, so maybe it's not so embarrassing after all that Izmer is based on Alphatia. Since I'm interested in maps, I'd actually like to see what the Izmer's world map looks like.
Perhaps this book could answer your questions: http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/3e/movie.htm
The second movie is better than the first, but I dont think they are set in the same world. The second one had references that made me believe that it was set in the Forgotten Realms or possibly Greyhawk.
Off topic: Could the events from the first D&D movie be imported successfully into the timeline? Perhaps at one point, some wizard off the Council did try to unsurp Eriadna's power by using mastery of evil dragons?
Havard
Well, I just remembered one other alternative Mystara that I failed to mention:
Empire of Izmer: Land of the D&D Movie
I felt sick when I saw the first movie, but I have heard that the second movie, D&D: Wrath of the Dragon God is pretty good, so maybe it's not so embarrassing after all that Izmer is based on Alphatia. Since I'm interested in maps, I'd actually like to see what the Izmer's world map looks like.
Shane
I enjoyed the second movie. It wasn't great, but it was at least enjoyable, and we (our D&D gaming group) found ourselves saying "I like how they did that" quite a few times. The characters were much more interesting in this movie, for the most part, and the special features on the DVD were interesting too. It's certainly worth seeing, IMHO.
The second movie is better than the first, but I dont think they are set in the same world. The second one had references that made me believe that it was set in the Forgotten Realms or possibly Greyhawk.
I'm pretty sure it is set on the same world but not in Izmer. IIRC, it is set a couple hundred years after the first movie, but it definately deals with the return of Damadar (sp?) and has references to his role in the first movie.
Off topic: Could the events from the first D&D movie be imported successfully into the timeline? Perhaps at one point, some wizard off the Council did try to unsurp Eriadna's power by using mastery of evil dragons?
That plot could certainly be possible in Alphatia, but please, do not make any connection between Mystara and that original movie!!! :P :D
"Blackmoor Modern" would be a d20 Modern setting showing Mystara at the technological height of the Blackmoor civilization...right before the Great Rain of Fire of 3000 BC.
I'm actually wondering if one could not use the regular D&D rules for this setting as well. It would have some implications for the setting however. I kind of like the idea of the Blackmoorians still being a fantasy type society even at the peak of their technological advancement. This would be sort of similar to Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms, where the world is moving into the Industrial Revolution Age, while still preserving fantasy stereotypes, fighting with broadswords and guns etc. Blackmoor BC 3000 could be the same, only with even higher technology (Space ships, laser weapons etc), though with mages, elves, dwarves and paladins still hanging out at the same place.
What do you think?
Havard
I'm actually wondering if one could not use the regular D&D rules for this setting as well. It would have some implications for the setting however. I kind of like the idea of the Blackmoorians still being a fantasy type society even at the peak of their technological advancement. This would be sort of similar to Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms, where the world is moving into the Industrial Revolution Age, while still preserving fantasy stereotypes, fighting with broadswords and guns etc. Blackmoor BC 3000 could be the same, only with even higher technology (Space ships, laser weapons etc), though with mages, elves, dwarves and paladins still hanging out at the same place.
What do you think?
So, would that make it a d20 Modern Past Victorian Steampunk Future? :D
--Ray.
What do you think?
I realize there are different valid conceptions of what Blackmoor was like at its height. I personally find this one, written by Sharon Dornhoff, most evocative:
"Hollow Moon Exploration: A Brief History of Space (Travel)"
http://pandius.com/exp2c.html
I imagine that the main powers at that time would be called something like the "United Federation of Blackmoor" and the "Evergrunian Elven Socialist Republic"*. The setting would be similar to the Urban Arcana d20 Modern setting (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/d20m/881720000), which has D&D fantasy elements (elves, bugbears, spells, magic items, etc.) mixed with modern technology (cars, computers, firearms, and so on). 3058 BC on Mystara would be analogous to 1968 AD on Earth, and 3000 BC would be like 2010 AD.
*I'd like to see soviet elves. I picture them having a green star instead of a red one. Anybody else got ideas on what they'd be like? What would be their equivalent of the "hammer and sickle"?
Like I've said in other posts, I see OD&D Mystara, 2E Mystara, and 3E Mystara* as three different realities, which is supported by a DRAGON magazine article which told how to bring OD&D characters into 2E Mystara and vice versa, and the Vecna modules transitioning from 2E to 3E. Thus, there would be an OD&D version of the Blackmoor Modern setting too. If or when Mystara 3E is published, I'd like there to be a web-enhancement for each product giving OD&D stats for the crunchy bits, plus notes pointing out any fluffy bits that are different in the OD&D Reality too. Anyway, I'm bringing this up again because I think it'd be really neat to imagine how OD&D Blackmoor Modern would be statted up. How did that Immortals module which transported the PCs to Chicago stat up modern human characters?
*d20 Modern is mostly compatible with 3E since they're both d20 games, so d20 Modern Mystara fits into the 3E Reality (so it'd more accurate to call it the "d20 Mystara" Reality). I imagine that the d20 Past sourcebook (which covers the Renaissance through WWII for d20 Modern) could be used for the centuries leading up to Blackmoor Modern. At some point in the cultural development of Mystara, the rules would shift from D&D3E to d20 Past to d20 Modern, and then some elements of the d20 Future expansion would be used for the last years before the Great Rain of Fire, after which they'd revert back to D&D3E. d20 Future would be used for The Galactic Federation in any case.
Perhaps this book could answer your questions: http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/3e/movie.htm
Thanks for the Izmer links, both here and on the other thread. Too bad the pdf doesn't seem to be available for download at WotC's site anymore. Regardless of my distaste for the movie, I'd like to see if it had any maps.
It might have some relevance to Mystara, such as if there's any map of the empress' palace, then it could be converted for use as a map of the imperial palace of Alphatia, much as the alternate Oerth of the Gord novels ("Gordhawk") can be sifted through and used as inspiration for the mainstream Oerth.Shane
Anyway, there'd be four classes: Soldier (the modern Fighter), Spiritualist (the modern Cleric), Tradesman (the modern Thief), and Adept (the modern Magic-user). These class names are taken from the 2E Masque of the Red Death game's four classes, with the name "Spiritualist" subsituted for MotRD's "Mystic" since this moniker conflicts with the OD&D Mystic. "Spiritualist" also happens to be the name of a divine-magic using class from the 3.5E MotRD iteration. Additionally, in MotRD, the term "spirit" is used instead of "divine", so "Spiritualist" is fitting for the divine/spirit spellcasting class of D&D Modern.
Each MotRD class covered a wide range of character types which were distinguished by various kits. In 3.5E MotRD there is a new class for each 2E kit, to go along with the original four 2E classes. To give an idea of the broadness of these four classes, I'll list the 2E kits and 3.5 classes that were covered by the 2E classes:
These examples represent Earth in the 1890s, so they're not all quite relevant to the final years of Blackmoor (though they'd be right on for Blackmoor's BC 3130s), but I'm just listing them to give an idea of how broad the four classes are. Given the simpler nature of OD&D Modern, four classes would suffice. The skill system of the Rules Cyclopedia would be adapted for modern use.