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Wee Jas

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Mouse10
Jul 31, 2006 20:13:31 Hi everybody, I run a game that takes place in the Flanaess. My nephew plays a Sor/Cleric of Wee Jas. He likes the ideal of being devoted to a goddess of Death. As part of the Death Domain he gets the Death Touch, which can be pretty nasty.
When he first made this character I told him that he couldnt cast Healing Spells as a Cleric of Wee Jas because I read that. However, I did tell him that he could use Healing wands and potions.

Last week when we played he pointed out to me that what I had read was in the PHB and that I interpreted it wrong. He may be right, I only wish he would've pointed this out more than a year ago. I feel it's his job to know his character.

In my 3.5 PHB (1st printing, July 2003) under Spontaneous Casting it says: All Lawful Neutral Clerics of Wee Jas convert spells to Inflict spells, not Cure spells. It doesn't say anything about Clerics of Wee Jas not being able to cast Healing spells. It just says they can't Spontaneously cast Healing spells like most good aligned Clerics can. It does'nt make sense to me that they can only convert Spontaneous spells to Inflict but yet they can cast Healing spells as normal too. So they get Death Touch, spontaneous Inflict spells and regular Healing spells? Seems a tad bit powerful to have all that!

Not much is said in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, other than Wee Jas's Clerics must get her permission before restoring a weak or chaotic being to life. (Which might indicate that they can indeed Raise or Resurrect, but that says nothing about Healing)
In the L.G.G. Wee Jas is concerned with the fate of the dead and promotes using spells and magic items. She is favored by Necromancers-which arent known for their Healing.

So what do I do at this point? Bite the bullet and now allow him to cast Heal spells or say too bad thats how it is-its been nearly 2 years, should've figured it out back then!
Let me know what you guys think?
#2
samwise
Jul 31, 2006 20:39:41 A cleric with the healing domain casts heal spells at a higher caster level, spontaneously converts to cure spells, and casts inflict spells. Why is there a balance problem? Even a Neutral Evil cleric of Nerull gets to cast cure spells, and spontaneously cast inflict spells, even if he has the Death and Evil domains.
As for how much time has past, unless he is demanding that some character death be negated, or money for a ton of wands be refunded, I don't see why it would be a problem to just let him start casting cure spells now. Just put it off as his character decided to never memorize them in the past. Why force a limit that isn't in the rules because you originally made a mistake when telling him what his character would be able to do?

Oh, and . . .
/insert
Standard Rant about Wee Jas not being a deity of necromancers!
/end rant
#3
vormaerin
Aug 01, 2006 1:14:35
Oh, and . . .
/insert
Standard Rant about Wee Jas not being a deity of necromancers!
/end rant

Hehe. You can hardly blame the poor fellow for following the PHB versions of the gods instead of the GH versions. How's he supposed to know that St. Cuthbert, Wee Jas, Heironeous, and maybe a few others were deliberately altered when making the "D&D" pantheon out of the GH one.

The D&D pantheon's Wee Jas actually is a necromancers' diety and explicitly mentioned as such in the PHB.
#4
samwise
Aug 01, 2006 9:22:44 That's why I just noted the rant instead of including the whole thing. :D
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 01, 2006 21:16:53 Wee Jas is not one of what are known as the "Angry Dead Gods". Which is to say that she is not an especially malevolent goddess of Death. She certainly isn't in the same category as Nerull, who is specifically focused on murder and killing.

She's really more of an afterlife/transition deity than a deity of taking lives or accelerating death. She's also a deity of Law and plays a very prominent role in practical matters of Suel society in the lands of the Scarlet Brotherhood, where her worshippers are as likely to be jurists or administrators as they are wizards.

Historically she has not been opposed to healing. Mortals generally die eventually, unless they use magic to avoid it (something she approves of) so there's no particular reason not to heal someone. She's not in any particular hurry for most people to die. Now, if a cleric of her's is going around healing people opposed to Wee Jas's laws, then she might take exception to that.

From a strict rules perspective healing spells are not off limits, although some deities (again Nerull comes to mind) might take exception to worshippers using them to help people.
#6
Elendur
Aug 01, 2006 22:33:08 Hanchicken: It's actually a pretty big disadvantage to not be able to spontaneously cast cure spells. It means you have to reserve precious spell slots for those spells and risk running out. A good cleric can always burn off any leftover spells at the end of the day to heal the party up. An evil cleric doesn't get that.

And if your nephew is running a multiclassed sorcerer/cleric, you really don't have to worry about it being overpowered.
#7
rilem
Aug 08, 2006 14:09:51 Ditto. And Death Touch is AWFUL for multiclassed PCs. Its damage is based only on cleric levels, not anything else.

So a Sor4/Cleric3/MysticTheurgeX (the natural progression, in core rules, for such a PC), would get to roll 3d6 for their death touch. That's enough to kill a commoner (probably), but it will have no effect at all on anything tougher.

You did realize this, right?
#8
umbralknight
Aug 09, 2006 4:08:29 Would true necromancer levels add to death touch?
If a character is an arcane caster/cleric of wee jas, true necromancer is easily more attractive than mystic theurge. I know it adds to cleric levels to rebuke undead, but does it have any effect on death touch?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mouse10 Jul 31, 2006 20:13:31	Hi everybody, I run a game that takes place in the Flanaess. My nephew plays a Sor/Cleric of Wee Jas. He likes the ideal of being devoted to a goddess of Death. As part of the Death Domain he gets the Death Touch, which can be pretty nasty. When he first made this character I told him that he couldnt cast Healing Spells as a Cleric of Wee Jas because I read that. However, I did tell him that he could use Healing wands and potions. Last week when we played he pointed out to me that what I had read was in the PHB and that I interpreted it wrong. He may be right, I only wish he would've pointed this out more than a year ago. I feel it's his job to know his character. In my 3.5 PHB (1st printing, July 2003) under Spontaneous Casting it says: All Lawful Neutral Clerics of Wee Jas convert spells to Inflict spells, not Cure spells. It doesn't say anything about Clerics of Wee Jas not being able to cast Healing spells. It just says they can't Spontaneously cast Healing spells like most good aligned Clerics can. It does'nt make sense to me that they can only convert Spontaneous spells to Inflict but yet they can cast Healing spells as normal too. So they get Death Touch, spontaneous Inflict spells and regular Healing spells? Seems a tad bit powerful to have all that! Not much is said in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer, other than Wee Jas's Clerics must get her permission before restoring a weak or chaotic being to life. (Which might indicate that they can indeed Raise or Resurrect, but that says nothing about Healing) In the L.G.G. Wee Jas is concerned with the fate of the dead and promotes using spells and magic items. She is favored by Necromancers-which arent known for their Healing. So what do I do at this point? Bite the bullet and now allow him to cast Heal spells or say too bad thats how it is-its been nearly 2 years, should've figured it out back then! Let me know what you guys think?
#2 samwise Jul 31, 2006 20:39:41	A cleric with the healing domain casts heal spells at a higher caster level, spontaneously converts to cure spells, and casts inflict spells. Why is there a balance problem? Even a Neutral Evil cleric of Nerull gets to cast cure spells, and spontaneously cast inflict spells, even if he has the Death and Evil domains. As for how much time has past, unless he is demanding that some character death be negated, or money for a ton of wands be refunded, I don't see why it would be a problem to just let him start casting cure spells now. Just put it off as his character decided to never memorize them in the past. Why force a limit that isn't in the rules because you originally made a mistake when telling him what his character would be able to do? Oh, and . . . /insert Standard Rant about Wee Jas not being a deity of necromancers! /end rant
#3 vormaerin Aug 01, 2006 1:14:35	Oh, and . . . /insert Standard Rant about Wee Jas not being a deity of necromancers! /end rant Hehe. You can hardly blame the poor fellow for following the PHB versions of the gods instead of the GH versions. How's he supposed to know that St. Cuthbert, Wee Jas, Heironeous, and maybe a few others were deliberately altered when making the "D&D" pantheon out of the GH one. The D&D pantheon's Wee Jas actually is a necromancers' diety and explicitly mentioned as such in the PHB.
#4 samwise Aug 01, 2006 9:22:44	That's why I just noted the rant instead of including the whole thing. :D
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2006 21:16:53	Wee Jas is not one of what are known as the "Angry Dead Gods". Which is to say that she is not an especially malevolent goddess of Death. She certainly isn't in the same category as Nerull, who is specifically focused on murder and killing. She's really more of an afterlife/transition deity than a deity of taking lives or accelerating death. She's also a deity of Law and plays a very prominent role in practical matters of Suel society in the lands of the Scarlet Brotherhood, where her worshippers are as likely to be jurists or administrators as they are wizards. Historically she has not been opposed to healing. Mortals generally die eventually, unless they use magic to avoid it (something she approves of) so there's no particular reason not to heal someone. She's not in any particular hurry for most people to die. Now, if a cleric of her's is going around healing people opposed to Wee Jas's laws, then she might take exception to that. From a strict rules perspective healing spells are not off limits, although some deities (again Nerull comes to mind) might take exception to worshippers using them to help people.
#6 Elendur Aug 01, 2006 22:33:08	Hanchicken: It's actually a pretty big disadvantage to not be able to spontaneously cast cure spells. It means you have to reserve precious spell slots for those spells and risk running out. A good cleric can always burn off any leftover spells at the end of the day to heal the party up. An evil cleric doesn't get that. And if your nephew is running a multiclassed sorcerer/cleric, you really don't have to worry about it being overpowered.
#7 rilem Aug 08, 2006 14:09:51	Ditto. And Death Touch is AWFUL for multiclassed PCs. Its damage is based only on cleric levels, not anything else. So a Sor4/Cleric3/MysticTheurgeX (the natural progression, in core rules, for such a PC), would get to roll 3d6 for their death touch. That's enough to kill a commoner (probably), but it will have no effect at all on anything tougher. You did realize this, right?
#8 umbralknight Aug 09, 2006 4:08:29	Would true necromancer levels add to death touch? If a character is an arcane caster/cleric of wee jas, true necromancer is easily more attractive than mystic theurge. I know it adds to cleric levels to rebuke undead, but does it have any effect on death touch?