Or is the campaign in editorial limbo??
I think Ravenloft will be back to what it was: a simple adventure almost like any others...That was kind of weird given, at the time, 6 of their top 10 products were from the RL line...
That's not exactly what happened. WW had to renew the license, yet WotC was asking such a high price for it compared to what it was bringing to the company that WW decided not to bother with it.
That was kind of weird given, at the time, 6 of their top 10 products were from the RL line...
Do you have a source for this?
http://www.white-wolf.com/ravenloft/index.php?articleid=276
As for the other, the Sword & Sorcery site always displays their top sellers. They did show Ravenloft as the most popular for quite some time, but we have no idea of the actual numbers sold or the profits (or lack thereof) involved.
Do you have a source for this?
IIRC it was quoted in a thread about the same subject on the FoS board at the time. You'll have to dig up for it though.
IIRC it was quoted in a thread about the same subject on the FoS board at the time. You'll have to dig up for it though.
Morte's right here. WW used to display the bestsellers on a special titlebar - and indeed, in summer 2005, RL was on five or six of those top ten. Of course, it were more the older releases, like the Gazs and the basic books, but RL was doing far better than most of S&S's other d20 products. - Can't quote it, though, since that chart is long gone...
Morte's right here. WW used to display the bestsellers on a special titlebar - and indeed, in summer 2005, RL was on five or six of those top ten. Of course, it were more the older releases, like the Gazs and the basic books, but RL was doing far better than most of S&S's other d20 products. - Can't quote it, though, since that chart is long gone...
Thanks for the help Raf, but methink he was asking about the "license was too expensive to renew" part of my statement ;)
I never said anything at the time when this "fact" was brought up, but I think this chart was to take with white gloves as when one is reading I Strahd propaganda
For example, it didn't include the superpopular Vampire Requiem & Co, and not their popular d20 creature manual, which was highly suspicious IMHO.Even today, if you look at the WW site, you have a different best sellers list under each WW RPG brand.
So that back then the WW Ravenloft page showed many Ravenloft products in the "Ravenloft top ten" was not surprising, and not at all to be taken as an indication of the strong sales of the line.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Joël
I recall that the main 'Sword & Sorcery' page listed the Ravenloft products as predominating the Top 10 list, which included Arthaus, but did not include the WW/WoD line. As I said above, just because the products were the top sellers, we don't know the actual numbers sold & if WW/S&S/Arthaus ever actually made a profit on the Ravenloft line.
OK, let's keep within Sword & Sorcery only. Even there, you mean Ravenloft was then bigger than Malhavoc Press (all the d20 Monte Cook super successful books (Arcana Evolved, etc.)), World of Warcraft RPG, the Creature Collection books, Relics & Rituals serie, Everquest, etc ?
Ravenloft really had 6 books out of ten in the top ten list with this competition?
Maybe (and I'd really like it to be true!), but I'll strongly doubt it until we hear from a person in the know. Until then, we remain in wild speculations, IMHO.
Joël
OK, let's keep within Sword & Sorcery only. Even there, you mean Ravenloft was then bigger than Malhavoc Press (all the d20 Monte Cook super successful books (Arcana Evolved, etc.)), World of Warcraft RPG, the Creature Collection books, Relics & Rituals serie, Everquest, etc ?
Ravenloft really had 6 books out of ten in the top ten list with this competition?
Maybe (and I'd really like it to be true!), but I'll strongly doubt it until we hear from a person in the know. Until then, we remain in wild speculations, IMHO.
Joël
Yes. Take a look at some of those old Top 10 lists on the Wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.swordsorcery.com
But it still surprises me a lot... If it's accurate, we are speaking volumes here.
Joël
Thanks, Jim. Seems I stand corrected
But it still surprises me a lot... If it's accurate, we are speaking volumes here.
Joël
No problem with you putting my assertion into question, Joel. After all, I have not the slightest idea about insider knowledge, just report my observations... Still, it remains a mystery to me why Arthaus would give the rights back. - VRGttM was definitely one of the better books of the line and I am sure it would have attracted new readers.
VRGttM was definitely one of the better books of the line and I am sure it would have attracted new readers.
Frankly, I'm at a loss as to how it could have. It's incredibly Ravenloft-specific, and thus would have had little crossover appeal for non-RL DMs.
As for the Arthaus "top ten" list, I think it's a mistake (or rather, a heaping helping of wishful thinking) to put too much credence in it. First of all, it's just a top ten -- it doesn't reveal sales numbers in any way. Going just off the info provided by the list, the number ten slot may have sold a total of 5 copies, and the number one slot a total of 20.
Secondly, a top ten of what? Total sales? More likely it's sales from the online store, and what fraction of a fraction of a fraction is that?
Pointing to the website's top ten list is similar to the end of the 2E run, when one of the most commonly trotted out claims was that Ravenloft was the second-best selling setting after Forgotten Realms. Well, yeah, that may have been technically true, but it didn't take into account --somewhat willfully, I think -- that there was a vast divide between their actual sales figures.
As for the future of the setting, other than EtCR and the possible, occasional revisiting of I6 in future editions, my take is that Ravenloft is done.
Frankly, I'm at a loss as to how it could have. It's incredibly Ravenloft-specific, and thus would have had little crossover appeal for non-RL DMs.
Yeah - but for RL, IMO it was well worth, and besides, it was a good read.
Apart from the mists, it's not too easy to use it, however. As for the future of the setting, other than EtCR and the possible, occasional revisiting of I6 in future editions, my take is that Ravenloft is done.
Most likely. But, hey, an RPG is done when there are no people left to play it... And, speaking for myself, I know a bunch of people still left to play... ;) As long as I keep playing D&D, I'll keep my Ravenloft books at hand.
IMHO, the novel line could restart however, if the re-releases and EtCR sell well. A Strahd novel would do well.
So we're back to square one, like in 2000, when Ravenloft wasn't on any schedule list.
Hope is low but the possibilities are endless. We'll do what we can to keep the fort. Hang on, guys.
Joël
The trend in most entertainment media is against creativitiy and innovation.
What movies are made? Sequals and remakes
What music is popular? New songs that use old fashion sound
What do people post on boards? Old posts with a few words changed
(Case in point, I posted this exact same post in 1992, and again in 1974)
I imagine ravenloft becoming shelved for a good long while, and then one day soon, when the Wotc is going over their orders and they realize that thay're short - they'll whip out a few classic modules.
This isn't so bad, though. If they follow Gary Jackson's rules, they can pad out the adventures by increasing the font.
Best part is, they won't even have to update the text! White Wolf barely even did that much, and we bought it anyway.
At the very least, we can hope for the occasional Ravenloft articles in Dragon Magazine, in the October horror-themed issue and in the January campaign classics issue. The October issue this year will have an article titled "Spells of Ravenloft".
Yeah, that's how I think it's going to end up - at least for a while. - I just can't figure WotC will drop RL totally, because that would mean to withdraw from the horror RPG market, at least for a while, and that is something I think people will not risk. I mean, hey, Dark Matter (sp?) is coming back, but that is no equivalent to RL...
I am sure the old RL adventures will get their revival from time to time... Like an Lord Soth/*Expedition to Nedragard Keep* book next year...? ;)
(Case in point, I posted this exact same post in 1992, and again in 1974)
By Ezra! I could have sworn you were not older than 30, ScS! :P
Speaking of which, I recently journied to the year 2012. Wotc was busy updating Rvaenloft for 8th edition rules. It is now a land ruled by half drow/ half warforged assassin/paladins/sorcerers, and Sithicus waas transformed into a giant road sign that reads:
"Soth was never here! Neither was Strahd or Drizzit!"
Almost fell from my chair from laughing...
I seriously doubt there is going to be a Lord Soth 'Expedition to Nedragaard Keep' adventure. It would be nice, yes, but not likely.
I think Ravenloft is done; sadly I agree with Mangrum on pretty much everything (this time). When the retro-trend does kick in for defunct settings, it'll likely be for one of the dozen others that hasn't seen the light. Dark Sun or the like. Maybe even a post-RPGA Greyhawk.
Ravenloft, thanks to its fans, should cling on for a while online with the occasional boost from October releases and Dragon/Dungeon. I can see a year-long Adventure Path in the later sometime. Maybe for Forth or Fifth editions (2011-14 and 2026 by my estimates) will release some Big HC campaign setting books on the old worlds, single releases for the old fans. Or maybe not.
Then slowly the people who still play and remember 'Loft will quit the game (grow old, kids to support or busy jobs) and the setting will be forgotten save for a few who heard about it, second or third-hand.
It happens. We were lucky as sin to get the reprieve for 3E.
Time travel, Ivid.
Speaking of which, I recently journied to the year 2012. Wotc was busy updating Rvaenloft for 8th edition rules. It is now a land ruled by half drow/ half warforged assassin/paladins/sorcerers, and Sithicus waas transformed into a giant road sign that reads:
"Soth was never here! Neither was Strahd or Drizzit!"
No kidding? So does that mean that Mordenkainen and those dimension-hoppers from Dark Conspiracy were there, if the sign didn't retroactively rule them out?
I think Ravenloft is done
Then slowly the people who still play and remember 'Loft will quit the game (grow old, kids to support or busy jobs) and the setting will be forgotten save for a few who heard about it, second or third-hand.
It happens. We were lucky as sin to get the reprieve for 3E.
Bite your tongue! I don't see that happening unless something else comes along to fill the void. Gamers tend to be stubborn, introverts who are addicted to the game and their characters. For an example: I know exactly what my first character did in her third adventure (that was 19 years ago and not that exciting an adventure), but I don't know what I had for dinner three nights ago.
The truth is that Hasbro is running a business. They will make what they think there is a market for and will sell well. So all we have to do is get the attention of a huge international company, while getting them to take us seriously and we're fine. Maybe we should talk to WOTC first?
Maybe this will help:
WE REALLY WANT MORE RAVENLOFT!!!!
It's worth a try.
This coming of a 20+ book buzz and recent return of the licence.
That's better than most other settings (Mystra, Dark Sun, Hollow World, Planescape, Al Qadim, Kara Tur, Red Steel, Birthright, etc, etc).