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How Far Down the Road to Power?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 20, 2006 1:24:56 How far along their paths are the SK's? I know that Dregoth has stats presented in Dregoth Ascending, and also Kalthandrix seems to have a version, but I still want to know if the Bureau plans to release "official" stats for them, if even just levels.

How far along their transformations are the Sorcerer-Kings? I believe Borys was a full dragon (Stage 10), but I don't think any others have finished. Oronis, I think, divorced all his dragon stages with his shift into an avangion, but I don't know how far in that progression he is, either.

Any opinions/facts? Thanks
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 20, 2006 2:52:56 The last of the TSR produced material (free year 11) stated this for the surviving SKs:

Hamanu - 3rd stage Dragon
Nibenay - 4th
Lalali-Puy - 3rd
Keltis/Oronis - Formerly 2nd stage Dragon, now a 4th stage Avangion
Daskinor - 2nd

The dead/deposed ones, at the time of demise:

Kalak - 1st stage (though he was in the process of trasforming)
Andropinis - 1st
Abalach-Re - 1st
Tectuktitlay - 2nd
Borys - 10th stage/completed
Khalid-Ma - 2nd stage, or 7th stage after the transformation that destroyed his mind and sent him on a rampage

The rest are not specifically mentioned anywhere, but it is probably safe to assume that they were first stage.
#3
phaaf_glien
Aug 26, 2006 2:14:42 It seems to me that we should be suspicious of the levels given to the SMs in second box material (especially the Wanderer's Chronicle and Beyond the Prism Pentad). Dragons Kings makes clear their levels just after Kalak's death, and more importantly, the Cerulean Storm gives rather detailed descriptions of the dragon-kings, descriptions which, essentially, correspond perfectly with the levels proferred by Dragon Kings. In any case, it is dubious to conclude that, all of a sudden, the SMs rocketed up in level so quickly after the Cerulean Storm, for even if one surmises that they were staving off their metamorphosis for any number of reasons, and even if we imagine that they were "ready to go" with the necessary psionic enchantments and the preparations regarding such at a moment's notice, it is hard to believe they could have ascended so quickly, especially in the case of the Oba and Hamanu... two dragon levels would have taken simply too long, even for the former Champions (even if we argue that the first metamorphosis spell was so well prepared that it could be done almost immediately, as per Dragon Kings rules the experience points could not be earned until rising to the next level, and besides that, study for the next spell takes a minimum of one year, and probably much longer; etc.).

The increase in levels, I do believe, was another symptom of the 2nd box writers going way overboard with back-story and campaign secrets. It was cool to suddenly grant these formerly extremely mysterious beings new levels. For me, I follow the PP, and the PP says they were at around 21st in Free Year 10, save for Nibenay, who was the most senior of the classical 7, and even he was 23rd. Essentially immediate metamorphoses after the events of the CS are simply untenable. For the survivors, I hold to the following, as per Dragon Kings:

the Oba: 21st
Hamanu: 21st
Nibenay: 23rd

As for the other Champions, if one chooses to include them in campaign, 2nd box material I suppose must be the chief source for establishing the status of their metamorphosis.
#4
zombiegleemax
Aug 26, 2006 9:23:10 After the death of Kalak and other, subsequent events, it makes sense to me that the remaining Sorcerer King's would have been eager to bolster their own powers as quickly as possible.

The death of the Dragon would have removed another barrier to thier progression. The SK's no longer needed to give up 1,000 slaves per year. Diverting those 'extra' slaves to fuel their transformations might have seemed a good idea.

If they were prepaired to cast the 2nd transformation spell immediately after the events of CS, it is quite conceviable that they could have cast the third within one more year. The structure used is the same, life force was available, and the preparation time is one year for the lower stages.

I think it likely that they were already higher than the levels stated in Dragon Kings during the events of CS. The description of Nibenay could have fit either a 23rd or 24th level Dragon, while some of the other SKs could easily have been concealing their true forms, as they typically did.
#5
kalthandrix
Aug 26, 2006 11:01:03 I agree that most of the other SKs were only maybe in stage 1 to 3 (I would lean more toward them all being 2-3rd stage), but Nibenay is poised on the brink of gaining the 5th stage - with the XP and materials already in place to do so. The only reason he has not is his desire to find a way to circumvent the Rage that is a result of the backlash damage.
#6
elonarc
Aug 26, 2006 12:40:28
I agree that most of the other SKs were only maybe in stage 1 to 3 (I would lean more toward them all being 2-3rd stage), but Nibenay is poised on the brink of gaining the 5th stage - with the XP and materials already in place to do so. The only reason he has not is his desire to find a way to circumvent the Rage that is a result of the backlash damage.

Right. Nibenay puts a lot of faith in his high templar, the child Siemhouk. Siemhouk posesses a unique psionic talent to calm others. Nibenay has been training the child in the psionic arts for quite some time now, but realized Siemhouk also has to advance in years for her to fully master her psionic talent (Siemhouk is about 15 years old and a templar 17/psion 5 IIRC!).
Until then, Nibenay will wait before taking the next step which will put him in the animalistic rage period.
I really wonder if Siemhouk will manage to contain his rage...
#7
kalthandrix
Aug 26, 2006 22:01:34 All I have to say is this - Epic Psionic Amplification - I can see him using his psionic and magical abilities to craft an item that can boost and amplify psionic power. He has the ability and I am sure that he has been working on something like this, at least that is how I see it.
#8
pringles
Aug 27, 2006 7:11:30 For my campaign, I dont follow some cannon, so in my game Hamanu is level 23, Nibenay 24, Tec 22, and the rest 21.
#9
elonarc
Aug 27, 2006 11:59:22
For my campaign, I dont follow some cannon, so in my game Hamanu is level 23, Nibenay 24, Tec 22, and the rest 21.

Somebody tried to use a cannon to make you following something? What? The fashion tenets of the vogue? The rugby rules? The Dark Sun canon?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2006 1:24:56	How far along their paths are the SK's? I know that Dregoth has stats presented in Dregoth Ascending, and also Kalthandrix seems to have a version, but I still want to know if the Bureau plans to release "official" stats for them, if even just levels. How far along their transformations are the Sorcerer-Kings? I believe Borys was a full dragon (Stage 10), but I don't think any others have finished. Oronis, I think, divorced all his dragon stages with his shift into an avangion, but I don't know how far in that progression he is, either. Any opinions/facts? Thanks
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 20, 2006 2:52:56	The last of the TSR produced material (free year 11) stated this for the surviving SKs: Hamanu - 3rd stage Dragon Nibenay - 4th Lalali-Puy - 3rd Keltis/Oronis - Formerly 2nd stage Dragon, now a 4th stage Avangion Daskinor - 2nd The dead/deposed ones, at the time of demise: Kalak - 1st stage (though he was in the process of trasforming) Andropinis - 1st Abalach-Re - 1st Tectuktitlay - 2nd Borys - 10th stage/completed Khalid-Ma - 2nd stage, or 7th stage after the transformation that destroyed his mind and sent him on a rampage The rest are not specifically mentioned anywhere, but it is probably safe to assume that they were first stage.
#3 phaaf_glien Aug 26, 2006 2:14:42	It seems to me that we should be suspicious of the levels given to the SMs in second box material (especially the Wanderer's Chronicle and Beyond the Prism Pentad). Dragons Kings makes clear their levels just after Kalak's death, and more importantly, the Cerulean Storm gives rather detailed descriptions of the dragon-kings, descriptions which, essentially, correspond perfectly with the levels proferred by Dragon Kings. In any case, it is dubious to conclude that, all of a sudden, the SMs rocketed up in level so quickly after the Cerulean Storm, for even if one surmises that they were staving off their metamorphosis for any number of reasons, and even if we imagine that they were "ready to go" with the necessary psionic enchantments and the preparations regarding such at a moment's notice, it is hard to believe they could have ascended so quickly, especially in the case of the Oba and Hamanu... two dragon levels would have taken simply too long, even for the former Champions (even if we argue that the first metamorphosis spell was so well prepared that it could be done almost immediately, as per Dragon Kings rules the experience points could not be earned until rising to the next level, and besides that, study for the next spell takes a minimum of one year, and probably much longer; etc.). The increase in levels, I do believe, was another symptom of the 2nd box writers going way overboard with back-story and campaign secrets. It was cool to suddenly grant these formerly extremely mysterious beings new levels. For me, I follow the PP, and the PP says they were at around 21st in Free Year 10, save for Nibenay, who was the most senior of the classical 7, and even he was 23rd. Essentially immediate metamorphoses after the events of the CS are simply untenable. For the survivors, I hold to the following, as per Dragon Kings: the Oba: 21st Hamanu: 21st Nibenay: 23rd As for the other Champions, if one chooses to include them in campaign, 2nd box material I suppose must be the chief source for establishing the status of their metamorphosis.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2006 9:23:10	After the death of Kalak and other, subsequent events, it makes sense to me that the remaining Sorcerer King's would have been eager to bolster their own powers as quickly as possible. The death of the Dragon would have removed another barrier to thier progression. The SK's no longer needed to give up 1,000 slaves per year. Diverting those 'extra' slaves to fuel their transformations might have seemed a good idea. If they were prepaired to cast the 2nd transformation spell immediately after the events of CS, it is quite conceviable that they could have cast the third within one more year. The structure used is the same, life force was available, and the preparation time is one year for the lower stages. I think it likely that they were already higher than the levels stated in Dragon Kings during the events of CS. The description of Nibenay could have fit either a 23rd or 24th level Dragon, while some of the other SKs could easily have been concealing their true forms, as they typically did.
#5 kalthandrix Aug 26, 2006 11:01:03	I agree that most of the other SKs were only maybe in stage 1 to 3 (I would lean more toward them all being 2-3rd stage), but Nibenay is poised on the brink of gaining the 5th stage - with the XP and materials already in place to do so. The only reason he has not is his desire to find a way to circumvent the Rage that is a result of the backlash damage.
#6 elonarc Aug 26, 2006 12:40:28	I agree that most of the other SKs were only maybe in stage 1 to 3 (I would lean more toward them all being 2-3rd stage), but Nibenay is poised on the brink of gaining the 5th stage - with the XP and materials already in place to do so. The only reason he has not is his desire to find a way to circumvent the Rage that is a result of the backlash damage. Right. Nibenay puts a lot of faith in his high templar, the child Siemhouk. Siemhouk posesses a unique psionic talent to calm others. Nibenay has been training the child in the psionic arts for quite some time now, but realized Siemhouk also has to advance in years for her to fully master her psionic talent (Siemhouk is about 15 years old and a templar 17/psion 5 IIRC!). Until then, Nibenay will wait before taking the next step which will put him in the animalistic rage period. I really wonder if Siemhouk will manage to contain his rage...
#7 kalthandrix Aug 26, 2006 22:01:34	All I have to say is this - Epic Psionic Amplification - I can see him using his psionic and magical abilities to craft an item that can boost and amplify psionic power. He has the ability and I am sure that he has been working on something like this, at least that is how I see it.
#8 pringles Aug 27, 2006 7:11:30	For my campaign, I dont follow some cannon, so in my game Hamanu is level 23, Nibenay 24, Tec 22, and the rest 21.
#9 elonarc Aug 27, 2006 11:59:22	For my campaign, I dont follow some cannon, so in my game Hamanu is level 23, Nibenay 24, Tec 22, and the rest 21. Somebody tried to use a cannon to make you following something? What? The fashion tenets of the vogue? The rugby rules? The Dark Sun canon?