- Drow (Krynnish Dark Elves are just outcasts)
- Orcs
- Halfling (replaced by Kender)
- Mind Flayers???
- Duergar and Derro (replaced by Dark Dwarves?)
Shane
P.S. I cross-posted this on the Dragonlance.com forum to increase my chances of getting a response.
- Drow (Krynnish Dark Elves are just outcasts)
- Orcs
- Halfling (replaced by Kender)
- Mind Flayers???
- Duergar and Derro (replaced by Dark Dwarves?)
Shane
To add to your list:
Drow and all their variants, including Driders
Orcs and all their variants, including half-orcs
Mind flayers (replaced by the Yaggol)
Lycanthropes
Titans (replaced by the Titan template, which is applied to Ogres and their kin)
Psionic creatures (in older editions, they were banned, in 3.x they are left to the individual DM's discretion)
I wonder whether Lizardfolks are in kyrnn. Because people wouldn't be so surprised to see draconian if these " lizard man " are around.
Isn't there a race called something like "Bakali", that are reptilian? Are they Krynn's version of Lizard Folk?
Shane
I wonder whether Lizardfolks are in kyrnn. Because people wouldn't be so surprised to see draconian if these " lizard man " are around.
There are lizardfolk on Krynn, but they have been quite rare for the last 3,000 years.
Cheers,
Cam
They are rare enough to have been categorized as one of Krynn's "Lost Folk", among both the Irda, Kyrie, and Huldrefolk.
Only in 2nd edition's Tales of the Lance.
Cheers,
Cam
Only in 2nd edition's Tales of the Lance.
Cheers,
Cam
Nope. They were also referred to as such in the SAGA system adventure game for Dragonlance.
Nope. They were also referred to as such in the SAGA system adventure game for Dragonlance.
Well, they've definitely moved from being counted among the Lost Folk to being more or less Found. There are orders of magnitude more bakali than there are huldrefolk, kyrie, or Irda.
Cheers,
Cam
Well, they've definitely moved from being counted among the Lost Folk to being more or less Found. There are orders of magnitude more bakali than there are huldrefolk, kyrie, or Irda.
Cheers,
Cam
Even if there are more Bakali than the other "lost folk", encounters with them as portrayed in novels is all but nonexistent. The only novel I can recall where Bakali were encountered in huge numbers was in the Ergoth trilogy set some 3,000 years prior to the current Age. Virtually no novels dated after the Ergoth time period have mentioned, much less shown Bakali, and even when they did it was but a passing or minor occurence. Even Huldrefolk and Irda have been seen or mentioned more often than the Bakali.
Even if there are more Bakali than the other "lost folk", encounters with them as portrayed in novels is all but nonexistent. The only novel I can recall where Bakali were encountered in huge numbers was in the Ergoth trilogy set some 3,000 years prior to the current Age. Virtually no novels dated after the Ergoth time period have mentioned, much less shown Bakali, and even when they did it was but a passing or minor occurence. Even Huldrefolk and Irda have been seen or mentioned more often than the Bakali.
Bakali have been featured in Jean Rabe's Age of Mortals books, especially since they served Onysablet while she was alive and in control of the Great Swamp between Blode and the Plains of Dust.
I also included them in the Spectre of Sorrows adventure, attending Pitch in the Great Moors of Nordmaar.
Cheers,
Cam
if nobody writes about you, does that mean you don't exist?
The bakali have become alot more common than in previous ages due to the fact that they were more often than not associated with evil dragons. So when the dragons were banned from krynn following the third dragonwar, the bakali (lizardfolk) went into hiding (and even this was only on the continent of Ansalon). With the creation of the draconians in the war of the lance and their subsequent emergence onto the common folk, most people do not know the difference between Bakali, Draconians, Spawn, and most other lizard looking like humanoids. Also the fact that most Bakali are lizards (rather than dragons or dragon-spawn) they typically prefer swampy areas and this is were they live. Most humanoid creatures (human, elves, dwarves, etc...) tend to avoid such areas except of course the kender, who nobody would believe anyway.
Bakali have always been prevalent on the continent of Taladas, especially after the events of Hiteh's Night (the cataclysm). There is even an area that is not swamp land where the Bakali live. But because there are only TWO novels about the entire continent, we must assume that Taladas and everything on it is rare, or they prefer their privacy. :D :D :D
Hey iltharanos,
if nobody writes about you, does that mean you don't exist?
For the purposes of being "lost", yes. There are only a handful of references to the "boojum" in all of Dragonlancedom, so you may as well toss them onto the pile of the "lost".
i personally would disallow any gem dragons. not only for psionics but also because the world was, according to hickman, 'based on the basic 10 dragons of the monster manual.'
also, there are lycanthropes. there is specific mention of a group of friends trying to help one of them control it in one of the anthology books (magic of krynn maybe?).
i personally would disallow any gem dragons. not only for psionics but also because the world was, according to hickman, 'based on the basic 10 dragons of the monster manual.'
That short story you're referring to wasn't lycanthropy, the wolf-changing guy was cursed by a dying wizard to turn into a giant wolf (no hybrid form) once per year (not tied to any phases of the moon), and other than that he was a giant wolf, he possessed none of the qualities of being a lycanthrope since he could not infect anyone with it, nor did he possess any vulnerabilities to silver, etc.
also, there are lycanthropes.
I'm afraid not. There are some shapechangers who may have lycanthrope-like qualities, but true lycanthropes do not exist on Krynn.
Vampires do exist, though.
I know that it is stated in the DL DM's screen that lycanthropes do not exist in krynn, but I have been going over some old modules that I have and I know that I have seen references to Lycanthropes in there. Not sure which ones at thi (I will check for research purposes), and if there are references what does this mean, officially?
I mean don't get me wrong, as a DM I pretty much do what I want as long as the players are having a good time.
I know that it is stated in the DL DM's screen that lycanthropes do not exist in krynn, but I have been going over some old modules that I have and I know that I have seen references to Lycanthropes in there. Not sure which ones at thi (I will check for research purposes), and if there are references what does this mean, officially?
The most current source tends to have greater weight in terms of continuity in most cases. Beyond that, I remember tons of older materials saying that lycanthropes didn't exist on Krynn. That's been a staple of the setting since early on.
I wouldn't doubt that you have seen lycanthropes at some point. After all, we have drow in older modules. I look at those as "kender tales." There may not be a bit of truth in the matter, but they were still fun. ;)
The key thing to ask is whether or not you feel that lycanthropes belong. If you do, go for it. If not, then don't worry about it.
I mean don't get me wrong, as a DM I pretty much do what I want as long as the players are having a good time.
Yep, totally agreed.
There is a lot of stuff that I enjoy that doesn't necessarily fall into continuity. Knight's Sword was the first Dragonlance adventure I ever played in. In retrospect, I can see some plot holes in the module. That being said, it stands as one of my favorite modules of all time.
Kodragons come up quite often in these discussions. I actually enjoy the little critters. I know they aren't considered part of modern continuity, but I think they're a lot of fun. So if they're fun to me, I might as well use them, official or not.
Continuity is put in place for the sake of the designers and fans alike. It allows for a common baseline to work from. When a DM runs a Dragonlance game, he takes ownership over the world of Krynn and he can build upon the baseline and change it however he wishes. At that point, the world is his to share with his players, and they too add to the world, making it something special and something that is all their own.
My only concern when considering whether to use lycanthropes or not is deciding the effects of the moons. Which Lycan would go with which moon. Do you go by type or alignment.
Alignment makes the most sense, although this makes evil lycanthropes ("lycan" is a word used in Underworld!) more prone to forced changes based on a full moon than the good lycanthropes.
Cheers,
Cam
I think it was page 268, but I don't remember any more.
Shane
How does something good for one campaign world or setting necessarily fit for another?
I assume the approach taken by Dragonlance to this topic is of interest to those working on other worlds because it sets an example of how to manage setting elements with successive editions of the game.
Cheers,
Cam
I assume the approach taken by Dragonlance to this topic is of interest to those working on other worlds because it sets an example of how to manage setting elements with successive editions of the game.
Right, Mystara is similar to Krynn in that it diverges from the Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Eberron standard, where "if it's in D&D it's in the world". It's helpful to see how many kinds of creatures are excluded from Krynn, and to see if Dragonlance has stuck to those criteria throughout the various editions of the setting. For example in the OD&D iteration of the Known World of Mystara the only kind of metallic dragon was gold. Also, like Krynn, there are no drow (replaced by shadowelves) and no psionic creatures. Though, also like in Krynn, there have been incongruous exceptions to those guidelines that need to be rationalized.
For instance, there are references to bronze, silver, and copper dragons in a couple 2E Mystara books, to Norse-style "dark elves" from Mystara's Outer Plane of Svartalfheim in one book, and a mind flayer appeared in a 2E Mystara adventure. These can all be explained or modified, but it's interesting to see how Dragonlance, as an official 3E setting, has handled these sorts of things.
Shane
Right, Mystara is similar to Krynn in that it diverges from the Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Eberron standard, where "if it's in D&D it's in the world".
Strangely though, to me, Dragonlance and Mystara still "feel" more like "classic" (ie. standard) D&D than Eberron does...
Right, Mystara is similar to Krynn in that it diverges from the Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Eberron standard, where "if it's in D&D it's in the world".
As I recall, Mystara was originally designed for the first (Basic) D&D system- which included only white, black, green, blue, red, and gold dragons- not for AD&D 1st or 2nd editon.
As I recall, Mystara was originally designed for the first (Basic) D&D system- which included only white, black, green, blue, red, and gold dragons- not for AD&D 1st or 2nd editon.
Right, Mystara (then known only as "the Known World" and "Urt") was the default setting of the BECMI boxed sets. It was later given a short-lived AD&D2E relaunch.
Shane
P.S. Anyone who's interested is welcome to check out the "Talking 3E for Mystara" thread here.
Strangely though, to me, Dragonlance and Mystara still "feel" more like "classic" (ie. standard) D&D than Eberron does...
It is because they were older, and thus, their traditions and campaign are integrated more into our thoughts (oh yeah, I know about Draconians.), while Eberron is still taking time to melt into our mind-set (Warforged are sentient golems?! OMG BROKEN!!111).