Adventures: The typical sorcerer adventures for many of the same reasons that a wizard does. However, rather than attempting to dig up new knowledge, they are more prone to testing their limits in order to surpass them. A sorcerer's power is inborn — a part of his soul. Developing this power is a quest in itself for may sorcerers, regardless of how they wish to use their power.
Unfortunately, this drive to develop their power quickly leads many sorcerers to the path of defiling. There are very few sorcerers who are preservers, as they tend to be more impetuous and have less self control than their wizard counterparts.
Characteristics: Sorcerers cast spells through innate power rather than through careful training and study. Their magic is intuitive rather than logical. Sorcerers know fewer spells than wizards do and acquire powerful spells more slowly than wizards, but they can cast spells more often and have no need to select and prepare their spells ahead of time. Sorcerers, like wizards, are divided between preservers and defilers, and follow all of the same rules that wizards do governing the distinction and operation of both groups.
To the average person, who has a very difficult time understanding the fundamental difference between preserver and defiler, sorcerers and wizards are one in the same. Only the two classes of arcane spellcasters truly recognize the differences between each other, but those differences are frequently put aside when compared to the differences between defilers and preservers. As such, wizards and sorcerers who are both preservers, frequently would refer to themselves as preservers (if at all), and defilers of both groups would refer to themselves as defilers before they would wizards or sorcerers (once again, if they refer to themselves in this way at all).
Allegiances: For a sorcerer, magic is an intuitive art, not a science. Sorcery favors the free, chaotic, creative spirit over the disciplined mind, so sorcerers tend slightly towards chaos over law. As with wizards, there are no good defilers.
Background: Sorcerers develop rudimentary powers at puberty. Their first spells are incomplete, spontaneous, uncontrolled and sometimes dangerous. A household with a budding sorcerer in it may be troubled by strange sounds or lights, which can create the impression that the place is haunted. Even worse, if the young sorcerer does not quickly learn to control how much energy he takes and stop himself from consuming too much from the plants around him, he will quickly slip into the realms of being a defiler — which is one of the largest reasons that so many sorcerers are actually defilers. For the most part, only a very select few of new sorcerers are found in time and taught that control over their power to become preservers. Eventually, the young sorcerer understands the power that he has been wielding intentionally. From that point on, he can begin practicing and improving his powers.
Rarely a sorcerer is fortunate enough to come under the care of an older, more experienced sorcerer, someone who can help him understand, control and use his new powers. More often, however, sorcerers are on their own, feared by erstwhile friends, misunderstood by their family, and frequently hunted by the Veiled Alliance and city templarates.
Sorcerers have no sense of identity as a group. Unlike wizards, they gain little by sharing their knowledge and have no strong incentive to work together.
Races: Most sorcerers are humans or half-elves, but the innate talent for sorcery is within any individual who has some blood relation, no matter how distantly, to one of the sorcerer-kings.
Other Classes: Sorcerers, like Wizards, find themselves ostracized in a world where Arcane Magic is loathed and feared. Preservers are frequently housed and protected by the Veiled Alliance, while defilers are most likely alone and desperate. They find that they have the most in common with members of other largely self-taught classes, such as wilders and rogues. They sometimes find themselves at odds with members of the more disciplined classes, such as the monk and paladin. Since they cast the same spells as wizards but do so in a different way, they find themselves far more understanding of wizards than any other class.
Role: A sorcerer tends to define his role based on his spell selection. A sorcerer who focuses on damage-dealing spells becomes a center of the party's offensive power. Another may rely on more subtle magics, such as charms and illusions, and thus take a quieter role. A party with a sorcerer should strongly consider including a second spellcaster or a more versatile manifester, like a psion, wizard, cleric, templar or even druid. to make up for the sorcerer's lack of versatility. Since a sorcerer often has a powerful presence that gives him a way with people, he may serve as the "face" for an adventuring party, negotiating, bargaining and speaking for others. The sorcerer's spells often help him sway others or gain information, so he makes an excellent spy or diplomat for an adventuring group.
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Sorcerers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Charisma determines how powerful a spell a sorcerer can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist (see Spells, below), Like a wizard, a sorcerer benefits from high Dexterity and Constitution scores. Being more melee-inclined than a wizard, the sorcerer finds a high Strength score to be beneficial as well.
Allegiance: Any.
Vitality Die: d8.
Class Skills
The sorcerer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
[indent]Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.[/indent]
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the sorcerer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: At 1st level, a sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice, as well as with all simple weapons. Sorcerers are proficient with light armor. A sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from his class levels of sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance. However armor of any other type interferes with a sorcerer's arcane gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.
Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to wizards), which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard must.
To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer's spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the appropriate table below. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
A sorcerer's selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing three 0-level spells (also called cantrips) and one 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on the appropriate table below. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers in that table are fixed.) Sorcerers are unable to learn new spells from scrolls or spellbooks, but rather must observe, study, and figure out the spell on his own, as the path of a sorcerer is a path of personal discovery. Through this personal discovery, the sorcerer can then choose the spell(s) he may get when he makes a new level. The sorcerer cannot use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.
Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at l;east two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell he can cast. For instance, upon reaching 4th level, a sorcerer could trade in a single 0-level spell (two levels below the highest-level sorcerer spell he can cast, which is 2nd) for a different 0-level spell. At 6th level, he could trade in a single 0-level or 1st-level spell (*since he now can cast 3rd-level sorcerer spells) for a different spell of the same level. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
Unlike a wizard, a sorcerer need not prepare spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. For example, at 1st level, a sorcerer can cast five 1st level spells per day — four for being 3rd level (see the below table), plus one thanks to his Charisma score of 15. However, he only knows two 1st-level spells: magic missile and sleep. Thus, on any given day, he can cast some combination of the two spells a total of five times. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he'll cast.
Familiar: A sorcerer can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 Cp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.
The sorcerer chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.
If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that round. However, a sorcerer's experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar's demise or dismissal. For example, suppose that a 3rd-level sorcerer with 3,230 XP when his familiar is killed by a hunting cactus. That sorcerer makes a successful saving throw, so he loses 300 XP, dropping him below 2,000 XP and back to 2nd level. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and a day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.
A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.
Table: The Sorcerer
Like with the Paladin, comments, suggestions, likes, dislikes, etc. are welcome.
Strike the whole bollocks about "direct relation to a sorcerer king" ... There's nothinga bout the sorcerer king's transformations that makes them genetically disposed towards being sorcerers, and the blood tie just opens up all kinds of ugly arguments over whether or not the thri-kreen or halfling can be a sorcerer...
Sorcerers are really just arcane casters who have learned how to internalize spells differently than wizards do. They imprint the spell permanantly, rather than memorizing a new set each day. Be very careful with descriptions of "power comes from within" because that can too easily be taken as avoiding the preserver/defiler conflict of arcane magic ... even if you spell it out otherwise.
Personally, I dislike the PHB's intimation that sorcerer's have the blood of dragons, but whatever. If you must have some sort of "mystic background" deep in the bloodline, make it some sort of past exposure to the pristine tower.
We're talking about creatures that have been ruling their city-states for thousand of years... some of them have been rather sexually active and are known to have descendants (Abalach-Re)... After a few thousand years, it may be difficult to really determine who is related to what, y'know?
I for one don't like the idea of sorcerers in Dark Sun... there is too much emphasis on people actually learning magic and magic being responsible for destroying the land. That being said, you could say a sorcerer-kings decendants, and decendants of their decendants, blended with the natural population has caused the sorcerer ability in a few people.
For game balancing issues, Hit Dice at d8 is too powerful. d4 should be the correct Hit Dice. Unless Vitality Dice means something different in your campaign. And why let the sorcerer wear armor? You won't have any wizards in your campaign if you allow sorcerers armor. That is also too powerful. Why not just use the PHB sorcerer rules?
I for one don't like the idea of sorcerers in Dark Sun... there is too much emphasis on people actually learning magic and magic being responsible for destroying the land. That being said, you could say a sorcerer-kings decendants, and decendants of their decendants, blended with the natural population has caused the sorcerer ability in a few people.
My sorcerer rules are the Battle Sorcerer rules (I want to say from Unearthed Arcana). If you notice, they have fewer spells, known or per day. The idea is that they'd have to struggle alone for a long, long time, and would have learned how to defend themselves without the use of their magic.
I honestly see Preservers favoring Wizards, while Sorcerers frequently end up as Defilers. There are preserver sorcerers, and there are defiler wizards, but the different ways which they develop their magic (Wizards are taught by some mentor, while Sorcerers fend for themselves and figure everything out making it very personal) drastically alters this perspective. Without a mentor guuiding them along the path of the pure and preserving way, Sorcerers typically begin to draw too much power, and slip into defiling practices. The Veiled Alliance tends to like to take in willing students to teach them, but it is difficult if not impossible to teach a Sorcerer how to cast spells, making them unruly students who frequently leave their "masters".
But, like I said, I used the battle sorcerer variant rules, because I felt that it made more sense for my vision of the class in Dark Sun.
I can think of no other way of explaining how these guys would just appear out of nowhere given all of the previous stories. Bringing in PHB Sorcerers as they are would glaringly conflict with published Dark Sun works. Hiding spell books, using strange booklike objects to conceal one's spell books, etc., are part of the trappings of arcane magic in Athas.
I think there's a balance problem as well. In a world where writing is illegal in most cities, and where magic is illegal in almost all cities, PHB sorcerers would have a substantial game advantage over wizards. (Even without the shocking, uncompensated, and unexplained boost to d8 hit dice that darkhelm gives them here!). There's no way in hell that they'd have been rare enough to have stayed under the radar in the PP and in Veiled Alliance. I think this is a far more serious problem than the balance issue that some folks see with the Soulknife core class.
I like the Dragon connection, since we know that dragons have mortal "offspring."
"There's nothing about the sorcerer king's transformations that makes them genetically disposed towards being sorcerers"
How do we know that? You've got the champion transformation, the Dragon transformations, and the living vortex connection. Lots of strange stuff going on there. Sorcerers "internalize spells differently than wizards do." With magical monsters, that's about innate ability, not about what they've "learned."
and the blood tie just opens up all kinds of ugly arguments over whether or not the thri-kreen or halfling can be a sorcerer...
If the sorceror has to give up the feat, as I suggested, that's something where race could screen out. Alternately, who knows what games SKs do while shape-changed :D
If the dragon connection does not work with 3e or 3.5, then the best solution is to just leave sorcerers out. Connection to the Pristine Tower is iffy, since the PT preceeds the time of magic, and making someone inherently magical (as opposed to channeling existing psionic and magical power) seems out of its function. I suppose you might go with born in the swamp beneath the jagged cliffs or something like that -- now there's an area inherently befouled with arcane magic. But that's a fairly limited group of people, and again, I don't think it works that well for 3.5 where anyone can take any base class.
If xlorep wants battle sorcerors, seems like a PrC would be the way to go.
...A direct connection to dragons (and the cost of a feat to establish such a connection)...
Not to highjack the thread, but this sounds like the Bloodline of Monarchs feat I created for my Dragon Brood PrC. Its pretty much allows characters to access the PrC which is a DS variant of the Dragon Disciple PrC from the SRD thats not tied to sorcerers. If you're interested, look for the Dragon Brood PrC link beneath my signature.
I disagree, Flip. A direct connection to dragons (and the cost of a feat to establish such a connection) is the only way that I'd support sorcerers in Athas in the core rules.
I can think of no other way of explaining how these guys would just appear out of nowhere given all of the previous stories. Bringing in PHB Sorcerers as they are would glaringly conflict with published Dark Sun works. Hiding spell books, using strange booklike objects to conceal one's spell books, etc., are part of the trappings of arcane magic in Athas.
I wanted them t potentially always be there, but misunderstood, frequently mistaken for as wizards by those who don't know what a sorcerer is. More specifically, they'd be mistaken as defiler wizards, when in fact, it was a defiler sorcerer.
I think there's a balance problem as well. In a world where writing is illegal in most cities, and where magic is illegal in almost all cities, PHB sorcerers would have a substantial game advantage over wizards. (Even without the shocking, uncompensated, and unexplained boost to d8 hit dice that darkhelm gives them here!). There's no way in hell that they'd have been rare enough to have stayed under the radar in the PP and in Veiled Alliance. I think this is a far more serious problem than the balance issue that some folks see with the Soulknife core class.
The balance problems are considerably adjusted by the limited spell selection that sorcerers have, really. Moreso with the adjustments for being a "battle sorcerer".
The d8 (I'm going to look again and verify this, it might be d6 lol) was from the battle sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana, I simply applied the changes UA had to make a battle sorcerer, a sorcerer that has a little physical/martial ability, something I'd figure that such an individual would need to have to suvive on their own in the harsh world of Athas.
I tend to see sorcerers really having difficulties in and around city-states; being able to instinctively summon plant life-energy to cast their spells, they may be more prone to throw caution to the wind and unleash a barrage of spells to deal with a situation -- which can become quite noticeable, especially if they hadn't learned the value or importance of preserving (or even how to preserve).
I like the Dragon connection, since we know that dragons have mortal "offspring."
That was what I was thinking about. They've been in charge for a couple millenia, and there could be descendants that are 20 or 30 generations (if one generation is about every 30 years, 30 x 30 = 900, that's still not accounting for 1,100 years of rule -- and generations on Athas could be much more frequent to boot, due to the high mortaility rate) distant from a sorcerer-king. The people might not even know that they are blood relatives of the monarchs, but they still are.
How do we know that? You've got the champion transformation, the Dragon transformations, and the living vortex connection. Lots of strange stuff going on there. Sorcerers "internalize spells differently than wizards do." With magical monsters, that's about innate ability, not about what they've "learned."
Kind of what I was thinking of.
If the sorceror has to give up the feat, as I suggested, that's something where race could screen out. Alternately, who knows what games SKs do while shape-changed :D
There are some freaky SK's. Like Abalach-Re....
If the dragon connection does not work with 3e or 3.5, then the best solution is to just leave sorcerers out. Connection to the Pristine Tower is iffy, since the PT preceeds the time of magic, and making someone inherently magical (as opposed to channeling existing psionic and magical power) seems out of its function. I suppose you might go with born in the swamp beneath the jagged cliffs or something like that -- now there's an area inherently befouled with arcane magic. But that's a fairly limited group of people, and again, I don't think it works that well for 3.5 where anyone can take any base class.
I agree, the sorcerer isn't for everyone. I like to have a few extra options for my campaigns, and the whole sorcerer idea actually was spawned from a chat session with Nytcrawlr, I believe.
If xlorep wants battle sorcerors, seems like a PrC would be the way to go.
I was just working off of the notion that sorcerers would tend to have to fend for themselves a bit more -- being shunned a bit by wizards who are either jealous or don't understand how sorcerers use arcane magic. They are rarely trainable, as I envision them as working down a path of self-discovery, rather than learning rotes from a master. I don't see sorcerers being completely ostracized by wizards, but more kept at arm's length -- sorcerers tend to slip down the path of defiling a lot quicker than wizards. As such, they've learned how to fight even when their magic is used up, if just a little.
That's more rare to us, but that sort of thing used to be the norm.More importantly, the calendar shows that the Cleansing Wars ended 2000 years ago, and that they begain 1500 years before that. You had immortal *champions* roaming around 3500 years ago. So there are probably at least 175 generations of Champion offspring, as well as at least 100 generations of Dragon offspring.
If xlorep wants battle sorcerors, seems like a PrC would be the way to go.
I was just working off of the notion that sorcerers would tend to have to fend for themselves a bit more -- being shunned a bit by wizards who are either jealous or don't understand how sorcerers use arcane magic. They are rarely trainable, as I envision them as working down a path of self-discovery, rather than learning rotes from a master.
I agree with you about the essence of what a sorceror is, and disagree with Flip who depicts them as persons who "learn" to use arcane magic differently. In 3.5, Wizards are analogous to psions, and Sorcerors are analogous to Wilders, who learn on a path of pure self-discovery.
But I think you've misconstrued what a PrC is. What rules say that PrCs cannot involve a path of pure self-discovery? What rules say that PrCs always require "learning rotes from a master"?
PrCs do allow you to require a master, and they also allow you to require a specific race or background. You don't *have* to put a master or organization into a PrC requirement any more than you have to put in a specific race. IIRC, we have a Dragon PrC, and AFAIK, Dragons do not study under a master.
I agree with you about the essence of what a sorceror is, and disagree with Flip who depicts them as persons who "learn" to use arcane magic differently. In 3.5, Wizards are analogous to psions, and Sorcerors are analogous to Wilders, who learn on a path of pure self-discovery.
But I think you've misconstrued what a PrC is. What rules say that PrCs cannot involve a path of pure self-discovery? What rules say that PrCs always require "learning rotes from a master"?
PrCs do allow you to require a master, and they also allow you to require a specific race or background. You don't *have* to put a master or organization into a PrC requirement any more than you have to put in a specific race. IIRC, we have a Dragon PrC, and AFAIK, Dragons do not study under a master.
I wasn't contradictincg the PrC idea so much as explaining my view od Sorcerers a bit more. I guess it *could* be a PrC, but a PrC falls shoprt in my book, mostly because they are limited in how many levels they can take (generally up to 10) until you get to epic levels. I wanted something to be a base class, with full range of levels possible, something to mix up the arcane world a bit, and make it less cut & dry (ie: something which provides more than just "wizard or nothing") As I developed the sorcerer for Athas idea, I felt taking the variant rules from Unearthed Arcana made sense to me, more than just using the base sorcerer concept. Then again, I've used quite a bit of UA's variant rules for most of the classes in my campaigns.
The archmage gives you precedent for giving up spell-slots and getting some sort of innate magical power back in return.
You might argue, then why not just create a sorceror base class, if the end result is the same, but the end result isn't the same for the whole world, only for advanced characters. 1. Only low level sorcerors are grossly advantaged compared to low level wizards in Athasian cities. You don't often see higher level wizards getting lynched by the mob. 2. A PrC would allow you to limit sorcerors to dragon blood, champion blood, pristine tower connection, Swamp connection, or whatever you wanted to connect them to.
Hmm. Could a PrC essentially change the way that a wizard learns/casts spells? That way you would *not* be limited by levels for spellcasting purposes; you'd add wizard levels and they'd still be affected by the PrC rules.
The archmage gives you precedent for giving up spell-slots and getting some sort of innate magical power back in return.
You might argue, then why not just create a sorceror base class, if the end result is the same, but the end result isn't the same for the whole world, only for advanced characters. 1. Only low level sorcerors are grossly advantaged compared to low level wizards in Athasian cities. You don't often see higher level wizards getting lynched by the mob. 2. A PrC would allow you to limit sorcerors to dragon blood, champion blood, pristine tower connection, Swamp connection, or whatever you wanted to connect them to.
I'm not seeing how low-level sorcerers are "grossly advantaged" compared to wizards, even with the rules alterations that Unearthed Arcana provides. Especially considering the very limited scope spell-wise that sorcerers have -- they are substantially less flexible than their wizard counterparts. Of course, I'm also influenced by one of my house rules -- which is all characters start at a total CL/ECL of 4 at the beginning of my campaign, combining LA, racial hit dice, and class levels.
For your second point -- my point of "champion-blood" is that in 170+ generations that the SKs have been around, people probably aren't even aware of how many are "champion-blooded" (especially when some SKs like Abalach-Re can't seem to control their "urges" and have over 100 "known" direct descendants alive in the modern day alone) I wasn't seeing it as a restriction, so much as an explanation to the existence of sorcerers, in a somewhat amicable way, playing off of the notions presented in the PHB a little.
I'm not seeing how low-level sorcerers are "grossly advantaged" compared to wizards
Did you read my explanation?
Hiding spell books, using strange booklike objects to conceal one's spell books, etc., are part of the trappings of arcane magic in Athas.
I think there's a balance problem as well. In a world where writing is illegal in most cities, and where magic is illegal in almost all cities, PHB sorcerers would have a substantial game advantage over wizards. (Even without the shocking, uncompensated, and unexplained boost to d8 hit dice that darkhelm gives them here!). There's no way in hell that they'd have been rare enough to have stayed under the radar in the PP and in Veiled Alliance. I think this is a far more serious problem than the balance issue that some folks see with the Soulknife core class.
Did you read my explanation?
And the significant limitations in the numbers and variety of spells doesn't compensate for that, like it does everywhere else? The sorcerer can't hide the act of defiling any better than a wizard. And without a guiding hand of a mentor explaining the value of preserving, the odds of a sorcerer being a defiler, at least in my book, are greatly increased.
Yes, they are missing some of the trappings of arcane magic, which if anything, serves to ostracize them from wizards more -- because no spellbook, etc. means that there is very definable differences between the two, and wizards (who I would gather are in higher numbers, just due to the nature of how wizards function and interact -- ie the Veiled Alliance) would probably shun and avoid, if not attack the sorcerer (esp. if the sorcerer in question is a defiler). Being a "court defiler" won't help much, because when your monarch demands that you know a certain set of spells and you can't learn them, that makes your monarch potentially quite upset with you. Sorcerers are outcasts among outcasts.
And the significant limitations in the numbers and variety of spells doesn't compensate for that, like it does everywhere else?
No. The fact that it's balanced in the PHB inherently proves that it's not balanced in a Nibenay or Urik, where people can get searched at the gates, and have their spell-books identified, etc.
No. The fact that it's balanced in the PHB inherently proves that it's not balanced in a Nibenay or Urik, where people can get searched at the gates, and have their spell-books identified, etc.
"Hrm. Three bags of eye-of-newt, a half dozen lizard tails, spider web (?), ground diamond dust, one little silver bell, three pouches of bat guano, and a charred erdlu liver ..."
"The liver is for lunch"
"Oh. Well, I don't see any spellbooks here, so, you're free to go. Nice dreadlocks, by the way. Where did you get the beads?"
Spellbooks aren't the only things that a city guard can find. Sorcerers still require components. And it's been a longstanding point that wizards have become very good at hiding their spellbooks, concealing them as "something else" -- a point made in the WJ.
So, if you have a balance point in regards to the city gates -- a point which can't be held mechanically valid, because it's entirely situtational; no gate guards in the desert -- your point is only that Wizards exist at a level below their PHB balance point -- which doesn't adjust the balance factor of a Sorcerer.
"Hrm. Three bags of eye-of-newt, a half dozen lizard tails, spider web (?), ground diamond dust, one little silver bell, three pouches of bat guano, and a charred erdlu liver ..."
"The liver is for lunch"
"Oh. Well, I don't see any spellbooks here, so, you're free to go. Nice dreadlocks, by the way. Where did you get the beads?"
Spellbooks aren't the only things that a city guard can find. Sorcerers still require components. And it's been a longstanding point that wizards have become very good at hiding their spellbooks, concealing them as "something else" -- a point made in the WJ.
So, if you have a balance point in regards to the city gates -- a point which can't be held mechanically valid, because it's entirely situtational; no gate guards in the desert -- your point is only that Wizards exist at a level below their PHB balance point -- which doesn't adjust the balance factor of a Sorcerer.
My thoughts exactly. There are components. And, I have gate guards checking for any magic items as well (city-states ruled by sorcerer-kings have magic items outlawed unless they are strictly approved by the templarate, and psionic items of higher than a power level of 4 are also outlawed -- basically the templars like to "confiscate" the items for themselves, and the sorcerer-kings also occasionally like to add to their own collection/vaults of items).
The spellbooks in Dark Sun are hidden quite well, a technique that every wizard who wants to survive learns to do. I do make it very, very difficult for one wizard to be able to copy the spells from another wizard's book without first figuring out what the spellbook is (then a comprehend languages cantrip can usually work to decipher the spells). Sorcerers may not have spellbooks on them, but they serve themselves better masquerading as wizards among wizards (or something completely different all together), and their existence isn't exactly common knowledge -- even wizards think in terms of preserver and defiler, rather than wizard and sorcerer. So someone could spend hours rifling through a dead rival's possessions in search of a nonexistent spellbook. Hours better spent hiding the body, or leaving.
Wizards don't understand sorcerers, finding them and their way of casting spells more than a little disturbing. Someone who can draw plant life-energy from his or her surroundings without any formal training and then take that energy and twist it into a spell, again without any training, leaves the wizard suimultaneously envious of, and intimidated by the sorcerer. Even a sorcerer who has learned the ways of preserving magic would find few friends among preserver wizards, because the differences would form a barrier between them. The most a preserver sorcerer can hope to do is play him or herself off as a wizard, mimicking the way a wizard does things, to "fit in" better. After all, the wizards tend to outnumber the sorcerers among preservers.
Defiler sorcerers have less of a need for this subtlety, because defilers are almost always loners anyway. But the sheer volume of spells that they can cast per day does tend to mean that defiler sorcerers would need to move around quite a bit more -- as the telltale signs of their power, the defiler's ash, would become pretty readily obvious wherever they are at -- especially if they have little to no self-control and work off the notion of using "brute force" and overkill tactics to overcome a situation (fireballs for everyone!) Nothing quite like leaving an entire oasis as nothing but a poisoned, ash-covered wasteland all in one session of combat to make people take notice.
"Hrm. Three bags of eye-of-newt, a half dozen lizard tails, spider web (?), ground diamond dust, one little silver bell, three pouches of bat guano, and a charred erdlu liver ..."
"The liver is for lunch"
"Oh. Well, I don't see any spellbooks here, so, you're free to go. Nice dreadlocks, by the way. Where did you get the beads?"
Go flip! nicely played. 
But seriously, that's a pretty smart guard to recognize charred erdlu liver, bat guano, diamond dust, or eye of newt. Rolled up spider web looks like lint. If you keep the whole lizard, it does look like lunch, and you can cut the tail later.
Ink-stained fingers are somewhat harder to hide, though. See "Common Wisdom."
But seriously, that's a pretty smart guard to recognize charred erdlu liver, bat guano, diamond dust, or eye of newt. Rolled up spider web looks like lint. If you keep the whole lizard, it does look like lunch, and you can cut the tail later.
Ink-stained fingers are somewhat harder to hide, though. See "Common Wisdom."
Your wizards use ink? :P
wizards think in terms of preserver and defiler, rather than wizard and sorcerer. So someone could spend hours rifling through a dead rival's possessions in search of a nonexistent spellbook.
Again, inconsistent, since the old supps emphasized spell books, and gaining spells by getting your dead rival's. The word "arcane" is bound up with writing and obscure lore. That's fine if conventional D&D has departed from the term's normal meaning, but in Dark Sun, that meaning was part of a bigger deal, because of the prohibition on writing. I think it's bad storytelling to mangle key mystical elements.
I guess our core rules have tossed the old rules that created a NWP cost to make your spell books on something other than paper; I think that was a mistake and inconsistent with the materials. You could conceal it, but at a cost. Wizards were associated with writing.
Disguise skill to successfully hide your spellbook as something other than a spellbook.
Again, inconsistent, since the old supps emphasized spell books, and gaining spells by getting your dead rival's. The word "arcane" is bound up with writing and obscure lore. That's fine if conventional D&D has departed from the term's normal meaning, but in Dark Sun, that meaning was part of a bigger deal, because of the prohibition on writing. I think it's bad storytelling to mangle key mystical elements.
Brax, you're the last person I should expect to have to explain this to.
For the n billionth time the ban on writing has nothing to do with wizards. Wizards don't even need to be literate, because they can't read a spell without casting Read Magic anyway.
The ban on writing has nothing to do with wizards, and everything to do with history. By destroying written records, the Sorcerer Kings are attempting to suppress the history of the planet, including all of their past misdeeds. An illiterate, ill informed populace is easier to control than a literate, educated populus. It's all about control, in the purest socialogical sense.
Disguise skill to successfully hide your spellbook as something other than a spellbook.
Brax, you're the last person I should expect to have to explain this to.
For the n billionth time the ban on writing has nothing to do with wizards. Wizards don't even need to be literate, because they can't read a spell without casting Read Magic anyway.
The ban on writing has nothing to do with wizards, and everything to do with history. By destroying written records, the Sorcerer Kings are attempting to suppress the history of the planet, including all of their past misdeeds. An illiterate, ill informed populace is easier to control than a literate, educated populus. It's all about control, in the purest socialogical sense.
You are talking about the purpose of the SKs for banning writing, and that's all very true, but you've completely forgotten about how the people and the Templars, are going to treat the writing ban.
You think that Joe Templar when he cracks down on writing is part of some witting conspiracy to stamp out history? Nope. Just doing his job. Who's he going to associate with illegal writing? Think about it.
You think that a bunch of illiterate slaves and common folk are going to help keep the secret of one of their own that secretly learns to read and write? Some will. Others ... see "Common Wisdom."
Flip, an illiterate populace is easier to control, partly because they hold each other down like crabs in a crate. You are oversimplifying the matter by having the SK being the only actor in the whole system, and you're ignoring how the culture at large interprets it, how they treat wizards, and how (looking at such populations historically) they are likely to treat people that read and write.
I guess our core rules have tossed the old rules that created a NWP cost to make your spell books on something other than paper; I think that was a mistake and inconsistent with the materials. You could conceal it, but at a cost. Wizards were associated with writing.
Again, inconsistent, since the old supps emphasized spell books, and gaining spells by getting your dead rival's. The word "arcane" is bound up with writing and obscure lore. That's fine if conventional D&D has departed from the term's normal meaning, but in Dark Sun, that meaning was part of a bigger deal, because of the prohibition on writing. I think it's bad storytelling to mangle key mystical elements.
I think it is bad storytelling to centrally focus on the reading/writing as even a core element as to why people would ostracize wizards. I don't even rule that wizards must be literate in my campaigns -- the athasian wizard doesn't dig through ancient tomes of knowledge to understand the intracacies of the arcane; they are frequently led by a mentor down a path of understanding that sets the building blocks of knowledge they then can use to expand their repertoire. At least, that's how I've seen it in the existing 2e materials and the novels. Sadira didn't tote around a spellbook with her -- hell it seemed she was not necessarily very literate at all. It didn't seem that her master was all that literate as well.
Disguise skill to successfully hide your spellbook as something other than a spellbook.
Brax, you're the last person I should expect to have to explain this to.
For the n billionth time the ban on writing has nothing to do with wizards. Wizards don't even need to be literate, because they can't read a spell without casting Read Magic anyway.
The ban on writing has nothing to do with wizards, and everything to do with history. By destroying written records, the Sorcerer Kings are attempting to suppress the history of the planet, including all of their past misdeeds. An illiterate, ill informed populace is easier to control than a literate, educated populus. It's all about control, in the purest socialogical sense.
Exactly -- a conspiracy pushed forward by the sorcerer-kings and implemented by the templarates. The nobility allowed it as well, because they were generally allowed to read & write, to a point (and it isn't like they really could stop it). The whole factor of wizards... that's just a side-track, and honestly I don't even see how people who don't understand *how* wizarding magic works in the first place, would immediately assume that wizarding magic is bad because of reading & writing. We're talking about the status-quo for 2,000 years.
You are talking about the purpose of the SKs for banning writing, and that's all very true, but you've completely forgotten about how the people and the Templars, are going to treat the writing ban.
You think that Joe Templar when he cracks down on writing is part of some witting conspiracy to stamp out history? Nope. Just doing his job. Who's he going to associate with illegal writing? Think about it.
You think that a bunch of illiterate slaves and common folk are going to help keep the secret of one of their own that secretly learns to read and write? Some will. Others ... see "Common Wisdom."
Flip, an illiterate populace is easier to control, partly because they hold each other down like crabs in a crate. You are oversimplifying the matter by having the SK being the only actor in the whole system, and you're ignoring how the culture at large interprets it, how they treat wizards, and how (looking at such populations historically) they are likely to treat people that read and write.
I think you might be over-emphasizing the importance of reading & writing with regards to wizards & arcane magic, particularly in the context of what the common athasian would know, see, and do. The common athasian, in the fluff/flavor of the setting that already exists, was shown to have little understanding of magic -- the details, like spellbooks and the like, would be completely lost to them. I think you might be giving them too much credit as to what they do and don't know. For my campaigns, I have the common athasian be rather superstitious and not very rational, especially when it comes to magic. Anything that remotely suggests magic they tend to get worried -- they've been told that everything wrong in the world was because of magic, after all. Templars wield magic, but the people already fear the templars. The sorcerer-kings wield magic, but only a fool would speak out against their monarch where it could possibly be heard. The veiled alliance tends to be rather secretive, and are known to be outlaws that cast magic as well. Clerics and druids wield magic, but they are rare within a city-state anyway.
I don't have the common athasian really be able to distinguish between divine and arcane magic -- magic is magic, and magic is bad. Some might be able to be pulled aside and told that some magic isn't bad, but in a crowd the social dynamics would override even that for the most part, meaning that crowds would quickly turn against a magic-user: cleric, druid, wizard, or sorcerer. They don't dare turn on the templars who have a lot of authority and bodyguards plus the potential intervention of the sorcerer-king himself. The people wouldn't know what they were looking at if they saw a spellbook. And if they did, it wouldn't be them hating the wizard for reading & writing directly, that would just simply be "yet another thing" that the wizard has against him or her -- if the people even comprehend what it means. People see every day the effects of defiling magic. They really don't need any other reason than that to hate magic. Defiling magic takes food from their, and their children's mouths. That is far more effective a motivation against magic than seeing a book ever would be.
I think it is bad storytelling to centrally focus on the reading/writing as even a core element as to why people would ostracize wizards.
I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. Have you read the source that I spoke of above?
I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. Have you read the source that I spoke of above?
I got it from this:
Again, inconsistent, since the old supps emphasized spell books, and gaining spells by getting your dead rival's. The word "arcane" is bound up with writing and obscure lore. That's fine if conventional D&D has departed from the term's normal meaning, but in Dark Sun, that meaning was part of a bigger deal, because of the prohibition on writing. I think it's bad storytelling to mangle key mystical elements.
[snip statements about what you see and don't, which I don't know what to do with since I don't know what you've read and haven't read.] Like Flip had even explained -- wizards on Athas don't even need to be literate.
And how does what Flip say contradict what I said? Wizards hide their spell books to keep from getting caught. Some wizards don't read. Doesn't change the fact that wizards are the ones most likely to live among the common people who read. Therefore common people associate wizards with reading.
Back in the 1980s, in high school, if person X called person Y "gay," it was *always* because person X wanted to beat up person Y. There were certain things you did not say or do or wear to avoid being called "gay." None of those things have anything to do with actually being gay. Like hanging out in a bookstore, or talking to your teachers after class, or reading a novel during the lunch hour. I suspect that a good number of starved uneducated Athasian city-thugs might actually be as stupid as my high school football team. Is that really so unreasonable a presumption?
Thugs don't like people who are more educated than them. In America, some slaves who illegally learned to read, ended up getting persecuted by other slaves.
Where the objects of prejudice have significant degree of correlation (e.g. wizards and reading), the thugs will lump them.