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New Spelljammer content here...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lavekkia
Sep 11, 2006 5:05:06 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10048398#post10048398

a new spell; i hope to post another one soon so hold tight :D
#2
lavekkia
Sep 11, 2006 14:41:33 as promised i posted another epic spell... it's on the same thread.
I hope someone will find it useful
#3
jaid
Sep 11, 2006 23:05:19 i'm just curious... you do realise that creating an air envelope is easy, and that in SJ, everything already has standard gravity of 1 g, regardless of size (unless someone randomly decides otherwise, that is).

i mean, air envelope may take a good long while to do, but all you need is to repeatedly cast fog spells and such, and sooner or later almost any object will gain an atmosphere... so pretty much if you made several separate epic spells it would probably be better. (one to create air in that huge radius so you don't have to wait). add on a "transmute rock to mud" effect in a similarly huge radius and you've pretty much rendered the object capable of supporting life (heck, with that method you even get water!). just add some seeds and you're good to go!

oh, and the magnetic field isn't really needed in SJ unless you really desparately need to be able to use a compass.

just some thoughts on making those a little easier (or maybe just a little bit less soul-sucking on the xp component)

of course, if you're using the spider moon version of SJ, i guess that changes things... all that stuff would probably be needed =P
#4
lavekkia
Sep 13, 2006 4:10:19 IMC olny planets and planetoids have appreciable gravity and temperature is the same of void space (as in RW).
The magnetic field protect the atmosphere from being stripped away by solar wind.
The point of the spell is that in 10 hour and 21 mins you get EVERYTHING: you transition form a bare rock from a planet suitable to life (more precisely a planet with life altought only plant life)
#5
jaid
Sep 13, 2006 14:02:07
IMC olny planets and planetoids have appreciable gravity and temperature is the same of void space (as in RW).

a flitter of 1 spatial ton has standard gravity. this is SJ, not real life ;)
The magnetic field protect the atmosphere from being stripped away by solar wind.

i'm not sure that's as big of a concern here. to be more specific:
A solar wind is a stream of charged particles (i.e., a plasma) which are ejected from the upper atmosphere of a star.

in SJ, stars/the sun are not large nuclear reactors (except maybe realmspace, it seems). they're portals to the elemental plane of fire. in point of fact, i'm pretty sure there's a canon planet with no magnetic field, and all it suffers from is that you can't use a compass, iirc.
The point of the spell is that in 10 hour and 21 mins you get EVERYTHING: you transition form a bare rock from a planet suitable to life (more precisely a planet with life altought only plant life)

i see that point, i'm just trying to save you some of those mitigating factors by removing the parts of the epic spell that aren't needed =P for example, an item that simply repeatedly casts obscuring mist every round will generate an incredible amount of atmosphere (in 2e, it would be 5 spacial tons worth per caster level each time it was cast), and can certainly be made for less XP and GP than the cost of adding it into the epic spell. transmute rock to mud is probably more problematic, but may very well still be cheaper to make into an at will item than to make it part of an epic spell. and if you've got 180 cubic feet being changed every 6 seconds, that's gonna affect a lot of ground. certainly not as fast as the epic spell, but probably within a day or two it would be done for most reasonable sized celestial bodies. toss in a decanter of endless water, and a group of colonists could get a heck of a lot done in a couple days.

for example, a standard "terraforming kit" (developed using standard item creation rules) might include:

bottle of mist (use activated by removing cork, much like a smoking bottle) - obscuring mist at CL 1, every round: 2,000 gp
rod of terraforming (use activated by placing it into the ground) - transmute rock to mud, centered on the rod, spreading out to 18 10' cubes per round CL 9: 90,000 gp+ (i might consider making it more expensive since it doesn't actually have to be moved to keep spreading it's effect. to limit this, i would probably limit it to working on rock with no life in it, and it doesn't "jump" if it comes to something other than rock, hopefully bringing the price back down)
decanter of endless water (as per the DMG): 9,000 gp

and there you have the basic elements to terraform pretty much any barren rock asteroid, for ~101,000 gp (which can be reused i might add), plus the cost of plants. preferrably to transplant, but seeds could work adequately if you have to.

if you wanted, you could even go the extra mile to speed things up, by adding on some functions to the rod of terraforming. for example:

plant growth (enrichment effect) would cost 30,000 gp (to effect the areas with plant growth as the rock turns to mud). multiply lower cost by 1.5 and you get 45,000 gp.

so then, we're looking at 146,000 gp to terraform someplace gradually. now then, you say your idea is to get the job done fast?

well with the amount it cost you to research the epic spell, you can make 4 complete sets of this gear, and it works once per round. in 10 hours, it may not have affected quite as large of an area, but it's gonna hit a good sized chunk of land, certainly enough to get a colony started. furthermore it uses up only around 1/5 as much XP to do it, and doesn't require a major helm and 5,000 xp to work. and once again, it's reusable.

the spell is a nifty idea, but it faces the same problem as any epic spell that essentially duplicates lower level spells: it just ain't worth it. it's too much xp, gp, and time involved in creating this (did i mention the entire kit, assuming it's made all by one person, takes 1/2 as long to make basically? and that it can all be made by non-epic mages? in fact, given the cost of your epic spell, you could use wish to create the rod of terraforming to save on time, and still be under budget on the xp cost).

so, to sum up: cool spell, but no sane nation with that kind of magical power would consider it to be worthwhile, IMO, in comparison to the reusable ability to terraform planets faster than they need them anyways.

note: only *after* writing this whole thing out did i notice you prefaced your points with IMC. having gone to all this effort, i'm gonna post it anyways, but just to be clear, i do understand that your personal campaign setting works differently. carry on, then =P (i still think it's too expensive... i'd probably whip up separate epic spells for each individual effect so that you can apply the mitigating factors separately, personally).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lavekkia Sep 11, 2006 5:05:06	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10048398#post10048398 a new spell; i hope to post another one soon so hold tight :D
#2 lavekkia Sep 11, 2006 14:41:33	as promised i posted another epic spell... it's on the same thread. I hope someone will find it useful
#3 jaid Sep 11, 2006 23:05:19	i'm just curious... you do realise that creating an air envelope is easy, and that in SJ, everything already has standard gravity of 1 g, regardless of size (unless someone randomly decides otherwise, that is). i mean, air envelope may take a good long while to do, but all you need is to repeatedly cast fog spells and such, and sooner or later almost any object will gain an atmosphere... so pretty much if you made several separate epic spells it would probably be better. (one to create air in that huge radius so you don't have to wait). add on a "transmute rock to mud" effect in a similarly huge radius and you've pretty much rendered the object capable of supporting life (heck, with that method you even get water!). just add some seeds and you're good to go! oh, and the magnetic field isn't really needed in SJ unless you really desparately need to be able to use a compass. just some thoughts on making those a little easier (or maybe just a little bit less soul-sucking on the xp component) of course, if you're using the spider moon version of SJ, i guess that changes things... all that stuff would probably be needed =P
#4 lavekkia Sep 13, 2006 4:10:19	IMC olny planets and planetoids have appreciable gravity and temperature is the same of void space (as in RW). The magnetic field protect the atmosphere from being stripped away by solar wind. The point of the spell is that in 10 hour and 21 mins you get EVERYTHING: you transition form a bare rock from a planet suitable to life (more precisely a planet with life altought only plant life)
#5 jaid Sep 13, 2006 14:02:07	IMC olny planets and planetoids have appreciable gravity and temperature is the same of void space (as in RW). a flitter of 1 spatial ton has standard gravity. this is SJ, not real life ;) The magnetic field protect the atmosphere from being stripped away by solar wind. i'm not sure that's as big of a concern here. to be more specific: A solar wind is a stream of charged particles (i.e., a plasma) which are ejected from the upper atmosphere of a star. in SJ, stars/the sun are not large nuclear reactors (except maybe realmspace, it seems). they're portals to the elemental plane of fire. in point of fact, i'm pretty sure there's a canon planet with no magnetic field, and all it suffers from is that you can't use a compass, iirc. The point of the spell is that in 10 hour and 21 mins you get EVERYTHING: you transition form a bare rock from a planet suitable to life (more precisely a planet with life altought only plant life) i see that point, i'm just trying to save you some of those mitigating factors by removing the parts of the epic spell that aren't needed =P for example, an item that simply repeatedly casts obscuring mist every round will generate an incredible amount of atmosphere (in 2e, it would be 5 spacial tons worth per caster level each time it was cast), and can certainly be made for less XP and GP than the cost of adding it into the epic spell. transmute rock to mud is probably more problematic, but may very well still be cheaper to make into an at will item than to make it part of an epic spell. and if you've got 180 cubic feet being changed every 6 seconds, that's gonna affect a lot of ground. certainly not as fast as the epic spell, but probably within a day or two it would be done for most reasonable sized celestial bodies. toss in a decanter of endless water, and a group of colonists could get a heck of a lot done in a couple days. for example, a standard "terraforming kit" (developed using standard item creation rules) might include: bottle of mist (use activated by removing cork, much like a smoking bottle) - obscuring mist at CL 1, every round: 2,000 gp rod of terraforming (use activated by placing it into the ground) - transmute rock to mud, centered on the rod, spreading out to 18 10' cubes per round CL 9: 90,000 gp+ (i might consider making it more expensive since it doesn't actually have to be moved to keep spreading it's effect. to limit this, i would probably limit it to working on rock with no life in it, and it doesn't "jump" if it comes to something other than rock, hopefully bringing the price back down) decanter of endless water (as per the DMG): 9,000 gp and there you have the basic elements to terraform pretty much any barren rock asteroid, for ~101,000 gp (which can be reused i might add), plus the cost of plants. preferrably to transplant, but seeds could work adequately if you have to. if you wanted, you could even go the extra mile to speed things up, by adding on some functions to the rod of terraforming. for example: plant growth (enrichment effect) would cost 30,000 gp (to effect the areas with plant growth as the rock turns to mud). multiply lower cost by 1.5 and you get 45,000 gp. so then, we're looking at 146,000 gp to terraform someplace gradually. now then, you say your idea is to get the job done fast? well with the amount it cost you to research the epic spell, you can make 4 complete sets of this gear, and it works once per round. in 10 hours, it may not have affected quite as large of an area, but it's gonna hit a good sized chunk of land, certainly enough to get a colony started. furthermore it uses up only around 1/5 as much XP to do it, and doesn't require a major helm and 5,000 xp to work. and once again, it's reusable. the spell is a nifty idea, but it faces the same problem as any epic spell that essentially duplicates lower level spells: it just ain't worth it. it's too much xp, gp, and time involved in creating this (did i mention the entire kit, assuming it's made all by one person, takes 1/2 as long to make basically? and that it can all be made by non-epic mages? in fact, given the cost of your epic spell, you could use wish to create the rod of terraforming to save on time, and still be under budget on the xp cost). so, to sum up: cool spell, but no sane nation with that kind of magical power would consider it to be worthwhile, IMO, in comparison to the reusable ability to terraform planets faster than they need them anyways. note: only after writing this whole thing out did i notice you prefaced your points with IMC. having gone to all this effort, i'm gonna post it anyways, but just to be clear, i do understand that your personal campaign setting works differently. carry on, then =P (i still think it's too expensive... i'd probably whip up separate epic spells for each individual effect so that you can apply the mitigating factors separately, personally).