Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2006 21:29:44	Ok, this is a really bad question. I am running a Basic D&D campaign. It is based in Glantri. Now I want to make an NPC Nosferatu (from Gaz #1). Question... The NPC is a 12th level Magic-User. Can she still go up in levels or is she frozen at 12th since she is a Nosferatu. If she can't gain anymore xp, does that go the same for a Lich? I know these are obscure questions about a game system no one plays anymore but here's to hoping there is someone out there as old as I am lmao!!!
#2 johnbiles Oct 02, 2006 23:17:32	Ok, this is a really bad question. I am running a Basic D&D campaign. It is based in Glantri. Now I want to make an NPC Nosferatu (from Gaz #1). Question... The NPC is a 12th level Magic-User. Can she still go up in levels or is she frozen at 12th since she is a Nosferatu. If she can't gain anymore xp, does that go the same for a Lich? I know these are obscure questions about a game system no one plays anymore but here's to hoping there is someone out there as old as I am lmao!!! I believe the Undead normally cannot gain levels, but I may be wrong on that.
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2006 23:29:00	No your are not wrong, I remember reading that, but I don't remember the book.
#4 agathokles Oct 03, 2006 3:18:13	The NPC is a 12th level Magic-User. Can she still go up in levels or is she frozen at 12th since she is a Nosferatu. According to GAZ1, a nosferatu keeps his class abilities, limited to his original class level or the new hit dice number, whichever is less. However, many Nosferatu in GAZ3 have much higher levels. So basically I'd (house) rule that Nosferatu and other undead with class abilities (Liches, Vampires, possibly some others) can raise in levels.
#5 rhialto Oct 03, 2006 3:29:59	probably a more important question is, what works for your campaign? If it's a PC, you should almost certainly allow it. If it's an NPC that the PCs are expected to kill soon, then the question doesn't matter. If it's an NPC that you expect to be a recurring enemy, then the question is more open, and depends entirely on how long term an enemy you want him to be.
#6 gazza555 Oct 03, 2006 5:02:33	Shame there wasn't a 5th Creature Crucible on the topic of playing undead characters. Regards Gary
#7 agathokles Oct 03, 2006 6:09:43	Shame there wasn't a 5th Creature Crucible on the topic of playing undead characters. It could be done, though, probably based on the lycanthropes crucible.
#8 gawain_viii Oct 03, 2006 20:13:56	By the book? in classic and both Advanced versions, no. In 3e, yes. That is based on my knowledge without PC4, Night Howlers. However, as was suggested, if the Nosferatu is a PC, I would allow it... if a recurrin NPC, probably not, but I would beef him up for future run-ins via hit-die and (if you're using it) skills and Weapon Mastery. Roger
#9 agathokles Oct 04, 2006 4:29:14	By the book? in classic and both Advanced versions, no. In 3e, yes. In AD&D 2e, yes. Several different options are provided in Requiem: the Grim Harvest (undead PCs) and the Van Richten Monster Hunter's Compendium (undead NPCs). Also, for a more Mystaran reference, see the Nosferatu entry in the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix, which states that Nosferatu gain experience normally, but require triple XPs to raise in levels (http://pandius.com/nosfer.html).
#10 zombiegleemax Oct 04, 2006 10:50:07	In OD&D what would be the point of a high level MU or Cleric undergoing the transformation into a Lich if they were not able to increase in level. The assumption being that these individuals were so power crazed that they would go to any lengths to preserve and increase their life and abilities. If they could not increase in level/power after attaining Lichdom, why didn't they just use potions of Longevity instead, and thus still be able to grow more powerful. Although in OD&D there is the level cap at 36, this may be an attractive point to cross over, but surely not before. However, I would think this would be more of a problem in 3e/3.5e, where power may still be increased in other classes and attributes.
#11 havard Oct 04, 2006 10:53:51	Also, for a more Mystaran reference, see the Nosferatu entry in the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix, which states that Nosferatu gain experience normally, but require triple XPs to raise in levels (http://pandius.com/nosfer.html). Off hand I'd say that would be an acceptable rule for Classic D&D too. Håvard
#12 Traianus_Decius_Aureus Oct 04, 2006 12:22:09	If they could not increase in level/power after attaining Lichdom, why didn't they just use potions of Longevity instead, and thus still be able to grow more powerful. Although in OD&D there is the level cap at 36, this may be an attractive point to cross over, but surely not before. However, I would think this would be more of a problem in 3e/3.5e, where power may still be increased in other classes and attributes. In 3.0/3.5, becoming a lich (or vampire) is a significant jump in power, regardless of level. One could almost argue 3.0/3.5 makes it too attractive from a power standpoint- although for a presumably powerful individual to make that choice, it would have to be. There are many benefits to simply being the undead "type" and then you start adding the specifics of the your new undead form. You can still gain levels, although you will get a level adjustment (affects XP requirements). A 20th level Wizard Lich is much more powerful than a 20th level wizard (or fighter, or rogue, or anything else) and they can still grow in power.