And umm...where is the boards "search" function?
I don't think WotC's boards have the search function enabled, unfortunately.
Eragon got recognition from Hollywood because it's on the best-seller lists and it does not carry a D&D stigma.
Sure, Spielberg may have played D&D long ago but I don't see him making any effort to head such a film project. Sad.
I will say this, though, I was quite peeved when I saw the preview for it as a live action and all we're getting for DL is animated.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with anything I can get for a DL movie (been waiting 15 + years now, got into DL in '90 so I missed the first 5 years or so); but I think it really deserved a live action version. And that crap about Eragon being a best-seller as a reason why it should get a movie is BS, DL has been on the best-seller lists forever. The only reason it's getting such major-budget attention after only being out for a short time is because the kid was 15 when he wrote it and it's good press for the film company to back him. I haven't read the books yet (although I have them), and I understand they are quite well-written, but so was/is DL.
Sorry, I was just talking about this yesterday with some friends and I still think DL should have gotten the LA attention it deserved (unless, of course, that's the way W&H wanted it to go).
However, I do think Richard Knaak's books are pretty alright. I love Kaz the Minotaur.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with anything I can get for a DL movie (been waiting 15 + years now, got into DL in '90 so I missed the first 5 years or so); but I think it really deserved a live action version. And that crap about Eragon being a best-seller as a reason why it should get a movie is BS, DL has been on the best-seller lists forever. The only reason it's getting such major-budget attention after only being out for a short time is because the kid was 15 when he wrote it and it's good press for the film company to back him. I haven't read the books yet (although I have them), and I understand they are quite well-written, but so was/is DL.
Read my statement again, Rath, especially Eragon's disassociation with D&D.
And you're right, Eragon got lot of good press and exposures. DL didn't get much. Maybe MasterGrazzt and his opinionated Hollywood-type mind is correct, even though I disagree with the books being boring since I practically lost sleeps reading them through from dusk 'til dawn, not unlike LOTR (kept falling asleep reading through the songs and poems) and Hobbit.
DragonLance well written? What, the main Chronicles? Plz, dude. Plz. I may love DL as a world, but the Chronicles are some of the densest, most boring clap-trap I've ever read. But the thing is, they're like, a rite of passage. Every younger fantasy literature fan starts out with either them or Lord of the Rings, no exceptions, then reads the other, then moves on to whatever. And for being a milestone, for being something that started something, I like them. But I will never say they're well written.
However, I do think Richard Knaak's books are pretty alright. I love Kaz the Minotaur.
I have to agree with you on almost all counts. Dragonlance was what got me to read. Not just fantasy but books in general. Yes, I lost sleep reading about what Tanis and the crew did next. But I don't feel that they were well writen. Some of the concepts are stolen from real-world religions in a way that would have God charging Weis and Hickman with plagiarism, if he had read the books.
Dragonlance is good reads for someone between 10 and 15. After that, there is SOOOO much better literature. And Eragon got the movie deal because he was a real best seller, not a NYT best-seller. I've worked in a book store for three years, I know the difference. Eragon sold A LOT of books. Dragonlance, yeah, world wide they sell a few hundred thousand of each title, but that's chump change compared to Eragon or the Lord of the Rings. I've personal seen at least 3000 copies of Eragon pass through the store I work at and I wasn't there for all the copies that moved! Lord of the Rings? Oh my god! I've had to help more people find that book than bibles, self-help and a books printed by WotC put together.
So, in short, Eragon earned the movie. DL earned an animated feature. That's my opinion anyway.
Read my statement again, Rath, especially Eragon's disassociation with D&D.
And you're right, Eragon got lot of good press and exposures. DL didn't get much. Maybe MasterGrazzt and his opinionated Hollywood-type mind is correct, even though I disagree with the books being boring since I practically lost sleeps reading them through from dusk 'til dawn, not unlike LOTR (kept falling asleep reading through the songs and poems) and Hobbit.
I wasn't saying you were the one spouting the CRAP, it was a general statement about Hollywood choosing to do LA of Eragon because the kid was 15 and home-schooled, so it makes them look like the hero for supporting him. But, since DL is old-school, it gets animated to placate the hard-core fans.
Yes, I know Eragon is a good book and deserves to be a bestseller; and I'm not taking anything away from the kid who wrote it; but Hollywood likes to take the flavor of the week and make what they can as quick as they can and then leave it for dead.
I didn't even bother to respond to the "poorly written" BS that posted because it's his opinion and he can keep it.
But I don't feel that they were well writen. Some of the concepts are stolen from real-world religions in a way that would have God charging Weis and Hickman with plagiarism, if he had read the books.
Ooh well, guess it's a good thing God can't sue people.
It's a good thing Tolkien can't sue Paolini, Eragon's author, for stealing Tolkien's LotR names (Tolkien names on the left, Paolini on the right):
Arwen Arwden
Isengard Isenstar
Elessar Elessari
Morgoth Morgothar
Imladris Imiladris
Caranthir Ceranthor
Isildur Isidar
Mithril Mithrim
I could go into detail about Paolini's blatant rip-off of Star Wars, but the above is damning enough. Of course, this is just my opinion ... and now I'll likely be labeled a monster for putting down such a great home-schooled prodigy.
Oh well.
So yeah, Dragonlance deserves better, and I couldn't give two rats' arses about Eragon.
Ooh well, guess it's a good thing God can't sue people.
Yes, it is.
It's a good thing Tolkien can't sue Paolini, Eragon's author, for stealing Tolkien's LotR names (Tolkien names on the left, Paolini on the right):
Arwen Arwden
Isengard Isenstar
Elessar Elessari
Morgoth Morgothar
Imladris Imiladris
Caranthir Ceranthor
Isildur Isidar
Mithril Mithrim
I could go into detail about Paolini's blatant rip-off of Star Wars, but the above is damning enough. Of course, this is just my opinion ... and now I'll likely be labeled a monster for putting down such a great home-schooled prodigy.
Oh well.
So yeah, Dragonlance deserves better, and I couldn't give two rats' arses about Eragon.
Ok, here's the deal. People rip people off. That's fact. D&D ripped off Tolkien and the Sword of Shanara and Call of Cthulu and a dozen other well-known sources. Dragonlance, being a D&D world, is just a guilty. Tolkien ripped off ancient Norse poems and Finnish langauge. The people that wrote those stories down ripped off their elders that told it to them word-of-mouth.
That shouldn't be the question. The question should be how well the "inspiration" (plaigurism) was put into practice. Like I said, I respect Dragonlance for what I think it is: an intro to fantasy. I think that Eragon is also an intro to fantasy, just as Harry Potter and Tolkien are intros to fantasy. And, frankly, those books all have something that Dragonlance does not. I FEEL that’s consistent, good writing. Weis and Hickman keep butchering and rebuilding their own story, not to mention other authors overlapping, contradicting and otherwise offending consistent readers with their lack of knowledge of the existing Dragonlance world.
That’s what I feel. I.E. you’ll always have a better book with fewer people screwing with your story, including yourself.
Yes, I know Eragon is a good book and deserves to be a bestseller; and I'm not taking anything away from the kid who wrote it; but Hollywood likes to take the flavor of the week and make what they can as quick as they can and then leave it for dead.
Well, duh!
You expect Hollywood NOT to go after the "flavor of the week"? That would have been a stupid business move. :P
Ok, here's the deal. People rip people off. That's fact. D&D ripped off Tolkien and the Sword of Shanara and Call of Cthulu and a dozen other well-known sources. Dragonlance, being a D&D world, is just a guilty. Tolkien ripped off ancient Norse poems and Finnish langauge. The people that wrote those stories down ripped off their elders that told it to them word-of-mouth.
That shouldn't be the question. The question should be how well the "inspiration" (plaigurism) was put into practice. Like I said, I respect Dragonlance for what I think it is: an intro to fantasy. I think that Eragon is also an intro to fantasy, just as Harry Potter and Tolkien are intros to fantasy. And, frankly, those books all have something that Dragonlance does not. I FEEL that’s consistent, good writing. Weis and Hickman keep butchering and rebuilding their own story, not to mention other authors overlapping, contradicting and otherwise offending consistent readers with their lack of knowledge of the existing Dragonlance world.
That’s what I feel. I.E. you’ll always have a better book with fewer people screwing with your story, including yourself.
I don't know of any other fantasy novel setting out there that has so blatantly plagiarized names from the LotR, and so many of them. Even D&D's rip-offs of elves, orc, halfings etc isn't as bad. Inspiration is one thing, whole-sale carting of ideas, names, etc. are another thing.
Aside from that you've got to understand you're comparing two entirely different entities. Eragon et al is written by one author and consists of two books. Dragonlance is written by dozens of authors and consists of hundreds of books. One is the product of one author, the other is a shared world produced by dozens of authors. Now if you're aiming your criticism solely at the Dragonlance books written by Weis and Hickman, then you may have a better basis for your comparison of writing-styles. What you're doing now though is comparing all of Dragonlance and it's dozens of authors against Eragon and it's one author and accusing the former of lacking a consistent writing style. Of course it won't be consistent, it's a shared world. Comparing shared-world writing to single-author writing makes no sense. It's akin to comparing Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth novels with the Forgotten Realms novels and accusing the latter of not producing a consistent story.
Dude, if the Eragon author did wrong by Tolkien, then report it to the Tolkien Enterprise and Tolkien Estate. Let them sort it out. Otherwise, you're just blowing smokes.
If anything, they were inspired rather than steal. If it weren't for Tolkien (who were inspired by mythologies), we would be reading Grimm-like fairy tales.
I don't know of any other fantasy novel setting out there that has so blatantly plagiarized names from the LotR, and so many of them. Even D&D's rip-offs of elves, orc, halfings etc isn't as bad. Inspiration is one thing, whole-sale carting of ideas, names, etc. are another thing.
Aside from that you've got to understand you're comparing two entirely different entities. Eragon et al is written by one author and consists of two books. Dragonlance is written by dozens of authors and consists of hundreds of books. One is the product of one author, the other is a shared world produced by dozens of authors. Now if you're aiming your criticism solely at the Dragonlance books written by Weis and Hickman, then you may have a better basis for your comparison of writing-styles. What you're doing now though is comparing all of Dragonlance and it's dozens of authors against Eragon and it's one author and accusing the former of lacking a consistent writing style. Of course it won't be consistent, it's a shared world. Comparing shared-world writing to single-author writing makes no sense. It's akin to comparing Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth novels with the Forgotten Realms novels and accusing the latter of not producing a consistent story.
Ok, let me clear this up if I can. Yes, I am comparing Dragonlance to books like Eragon and the Sword of Truth and I stand by this point: if you have a shared world, controlled by a company such as WotC or Soverign Press (who makes the DL RPG stuff now?) you are going to have worse writing than if you have one author write the whole thing. It's like playing "telephone", you get a little bit of the story from ten people, stuff ain't going to add up. Thereby, I feel that DL isn't the peak of fantasy writing as we know it.
And you're right, inspiration is different from stealing names and ideas. Of course, that means that Tolkien shouldn't get the credit that he does, seeing as it's all an ancient Germanic poem about the elves, but let's not go into the fact that this whole genre is based off of reusing old ideas, including exact names. Tolkien did it, Gandolf is the name of the last Elf king in a Germanic epic. Once again, my point isn't that I even care if people take ideas from other people, it's how they put it all together. And regardly of Weis and Hickman's writing style, I feel that Dragonlance as a whole is wanting. Sorry, there's still better and if you would like to hear my opinion on what books are better, feel free to ask. Otherwise, I'm done arguing this point. I have my opinion and you have yours, let's leave it at that.
Well, duh!
You expect Hollywood NOT to go after the "flavor of the week"? That would have been a stupid business move. :P
I know and agree completely, that's why I said it. LOL
But I also think it's the biggest reason we (as DL fans who wanted a live action movie trilogy - at the very least) got jacked and this kid will make a cool mil (or more) from the book.
As to the posts about dozens of authors for DL; I'm referring to the core of 6 W&H books (Chronicles & Legends) only as the ones that truly deserved a live action movie. Again, all my opinion, agree or not it's your prerogative. Thanks.:D
And you're right, inspiration is different from stealing names and ideas. Of course, that means that Tolkien shouldn't get the credit that he does, seeing as it's all an ancient Germanic poem about the elves, but let's not go into the fact that this whole genre is based off of reusing old ideas, including exact names. Tolkien did it, Gandolf is the name of the last Elf king in a Germanic epic. Once again, my point isn't that I even care if people take ideas from other people, it's how they put it all together. And regardly of Weis and Hickman's writing style, I feel that Dragonlance as a whole is wanting. Sorry, there's still better and if you would like to hear my opinion on what books are better, feel free to ask. Otherwise, I'm done arguing this point. I have my opinion and you have yours, let's leave it at that.
Well... considering that I haven't read ALL of the Dragonlance themed books (by various authors) as much as I have not read ALL of the Middle-Earth themed books (some of which had to be completed by one of JRR Tolkiens's sons, Christopher):
Which novels in the Dragonlance series are better?
Well... considering that I haven't read ALL of the Dragonlance themed books (by various authors) as much as I have not read ALL of the Middle-Earth themed books (some of which had to be completed by one of JRR Tolkiens's sons, Christopher):
Which novels in the Dragonlance series are better?
After reading only a handful (33 or so) of the Dragonlance books, I would say that the Chronicles are my favorite. But then again, I have a hard time even trying to read them now. Ever since Summer Flame, though, I feel that Weis and Hickman have had to compromise the original story too many times, both trying to incorporate others story elements and changes to the game that the world was based on.
But I feel that both Chronicles and Legends are better writing than some of the stuff I've seen from Christopher Tolkien. I feel that he should have struck out on his own if he wanted to be an author, or if he was just finishing works for the fans, he shouldn't have done that at all. The original author is gone, noone else will ever be as good. I feel that holds true for Dragonlance too. If it was just Weis and Hickman, I would feel ten times better about Dragonlance.
I don't think so. From what I've seen, Eragon is fantasy-lite, ala Harry Potter. Why do these flashes-in-the-pans get films and recognition? Where's my friggin' Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser movie!?
I second that. Fafhrd and Grey Mouser deserve movies more than Eragon and Harry Potter combined. They deserve it as much as Dragonlance.
After reading only a handful (33 or so) of the Dragonlance books, I would say that the Chronicles are my favorite. But then again, I have a hard time even trying to read them now. Ever since Summer Flame, though, I feel that Weis and Hickman have had to compromise the original story too many times, both trying to incorporate others story elements and changes to the game that the world was based on.
If you are referring to the transition from AD&D to SAGA, I have to agree. IMNSHO, converting one of my favorite D&D setting to a card-based rulesystem, and then initially depriving priests of their divine powers rubbed me the wrong way.
But I feel that both Chronicles and Legends are better writing than some of the stuff I've seen from Christopher Tolkien. I feel that he should have struck out on his own if he wanted to be an author, or if he was just finishing works for the fans, he shouldn't have done that at all.
Many would disagree with you. Fans of Middle-Earth crave for more lost unpublished material. If not Christopher Tolkien, somebody else would have done it.
The original author is gone, noone else will ever be as good. I feel that holds true for Dragonlance too. If it was just Weis and Hickman, I would feel ten times better about Dragonlance.
Problem is, that unlike Middle-Earth, Dragonlance is a game-based franchise (with emphasis on both "game" and "franchise"). Even after Weis and Hickman, DL will continue to evolve. The only thing we have to worry about is who runs the franchise.
Many would disagree with you. Fans of Middle-Earth crave for more lost unpublished material. If not Christopher Tolkien, somebody else would have done it.
Problem is, that unlike Middle-Earth, Dragonlance is a game-based franchise (with emphasis on both "game" and "franchise"). Even after Weis and Hickman, DL will continue to evolve. The only thing we have to worry about is who runs the franchise.
Of course, many will disagree with me. That's only my opinion. I say feel free to enjoy whatever you want to. If you like Tolkien as repressed by his son, enjoy away. Just not my flavor of choice.
And yes, I feel that you're exactly right about the game-based franchise. It's more so money and marketting talking in a situation like Dragonlance than one like Eragon. Dragonlance is more the name, where as Eragon is more the novalty of the author.
I have not read Eragon, but the first trailer did nothing to inspire me to go see it. It looks ok, effects-wise, but the acting and story seems less than average.
Of course, many will disagree with me. That's only my opinion. I say feel free to enjoy whatever you want to. If you like Tolkien as repressed by his son, enjoy away. Just not my flavor of choice.
Whatever gave you the impression that I support the overzealous Christopher Tolkiens?
And yes, I feel that you're exactly right about the game-based franchise. It's more so money and marketting talking in a situation like Dragonlance than one like Eragon. Dragonlance is more the name, where as Eragon is more the novalty of the author.
It's no different than the novelty of Harry Potter's author, who has a rag-to-rich success story of a divorced mom. The thing is Harry Potter caught on with the kids before the news media caught wind of the success. The same could be argued for Eragon ... and at some point Dragonlance Chronicles (only the media didn't cover this one).
It doesn't mean it's a bad thing or good. Only that the media will do whatever stories that will earn them ratings.