Is there anything out there as to why? I know allot of different theories out there, what would be the most official one?
* genetic change
* dwarves shave now
* fake beards back in the day
????
Good reading.
Hair --> no hair is not inconsistency; it's a mystery.
I never said it was an inconsistency. Just forgot the official answer.
And since Wisdom of the Drylanders is an official athas.org release, the lye bath is official.
Disclaimer: This is not a challenge to the official lye bath scenario in any way, it is merely presented as an alternative for development in a personal campaign. I am presenting this concept to the community for discussion about it's plausibility and 'Dark Sunny-ness'. If there are any contradictions present in canonical sources I wholeheartedly invite anyone to bring them up. And to be honest this doesn't truly contradict the lye-bath thing, but only deemphasizes the need for it.
>Ahem<
The Green Age description of Hairless Dwarves.
There is no such thing as Dwarven albinos. Dwarves do have peculiar anomaly of their own that take on a similar character with a similar frequency. That condition is Dwarven Hairlessness. (Or the "Sweet-Baby-Borys you is BALD! syndrome.) About 1 in 20,000 dwarves are born entirely without hair. This condition is characterized by skin that is completely smooth as a result of vestigial hair follicles. Even eyelashes and cilia in the throat are stunted and underdeveloped. Dwarves that are afflicted with this condition frequently suffer from Ocular and Ear, Nose and Throat irritation because the diminutive cilia is less effective at keeping out dirt from the orifices of the body.
The beard is an important symbol among the dwarves, and it is decorated and embellished to show status and importance. (Leaving the female bearded dwarf thing out of the question for the moment.) Dwarves that are born hairless are frequently marginalized by dwarven society. Dwarves esteem great construction projects almost as much as victory in battle. Every village on Athas has at least some citizens focusing on a mine or a construction project. The Hairless are kept out of mining and 'dirty' work because they will frequently develop infections in mining or construction. So they tend to be pushed into clerical roles, scribal roles, or roles within the Elemental Priesthoods. Their have been exceptions in Dwarven history, like the ancient General Kermlar, who was hairless and ruled a great Dwarven nation in the Ringing Mountains. (Though some dwarves argue his hair was lost in his battle with the Gnomish Fire Priest Grelick and he was not 'born' hairless.), but in general, to be born beardless is to be seen as to be born weak.
The Green Age Story behind the Transition:
Borys the Dwarf-Butcher was the most powerful of the Champions, but the Dwarves were among the most powerful of the rebirth races. Dwarves had access to metals taken from the bowels of Athas that no other races on Athas had access to, the Dwarves had command of powerful Elemental Spirits and powerful Runic magic, and every assault Borys made was at most a stalemate if not a defeat. The first Champion sent against the Dwarves was even defeated and Borys is his replacement. Even keeping his army from dying and sending legions of the undead against the Dwarves couldn't break their focus and unyielding will.
So Borys sent a plague against the Dwarves. He conjured a horrible infectious death that killed only dwarves. Borys started breeding legions of plague-infested soldiers both alive and dead to fight against the Dwarves. Dwarven magic had no defense to keep the people safe and the Dwarves started dying.
The odd thing is, The Beardless were immune to the Great Death. And in the final centuries of the Cleansing Wars, The Beardless rose up and defended their dwarven brethren with every spell, trick and violent act that their bearded brothers were capable of, and even though the Dwarves with beards were dying, the Dwarven race continued on in the loosing battle against Borys. The defeat of Rakard, the last of the Dwarven Kings, was the last Battle of the Cleansing Wars, but also it was the last battle with bearded dwarves.
The Great Death spread through the rest of the Dwarven people during the century-long rampage of Borys. Finally the only Dwarves left were The Beardless. The line of the Dwarven Kings is forever broken, but the Dwarven people live on as long as there is ground to walk on.
So... thoughts?
Borys the Dwarf-Butcher was the most powerful of the Champions, but the Dwarves were among the most powerful of the rebirth races. Dwarves had access to metals taken from the bowels of Athas that no other races on Athas had access to, the Dwarves had command of powerful Elemental Spirits and powerful Runic magic, and every assault Borys made was at most a stalemate if not a defeat. The first Champion sent against the Dwarves was even defeated and Borys is his replacement.
So, you like the idea of an earlier Butcher? I like it too. :D
So Borys sent a plague against the Dwarves. He conjured a horrible infectious death that killed only dwarves. Borys started breeding legions of plague-infested soldiers both alive and dead to fight against the Dwarves. Dwarven magic had no defense to keep the people safe and the Dwarves started dying.
The odd thing is, The Beardless were immune to the Great Death. And in the final centuries of the Cleansing Wars, The Beardless rose up and defended their dwarven brethren with every spell, trick and violent act that their bearded brothers were capable of, and even though the Dwarves with beards were dying, the Dwarven race continued on in the loosing battle against Borys. The defeat of Rakard, the last of the Dwarven Kings, was the last Battle of the Cleansing Wars, but also it was the last battle with bearded dwarves.
The Great Death spread through the rest of the Dwarven people during the century-long rampage of Borys. Finally the only Dwarves left were The Beardless. The line of the Dwarven Kings is forever broken, but the Dwarven people live on as long as there is ground to walk on.
So... thoughts?
I like it. One thing though:
Undead would be a much better plague transmitter in my book. Plus, the Champions would have no trouble what so ever taking their followers and "rewarding" them with undeath and tailoring there abilities to suit the Champion's needs. I would stay away from living servants doing this IMO.
So, you like the idea of an earlier Butcher? I like it too. :D
At this point it's practically official.
I like it. One thing though:
Undead would be a much better plague transmitter in my book. Plus, the Champions would have no trouble what so ever taking their followers and "rewarding" them with undeath and tailoring there abilities to suit the Champion's needs. I would stay away from living servants doing this IMO.
I think the Champions are EVIL. EEE-VEIILLLL!
I think that in order to commit genocide, especially genocide at a fantasy level technology, you have to be extremely heinous to get the job done.
If Borys needs to corrupt a few thousand humans to spread disease, I don't think there would be a moment's hesitation. I do think that the undead would be far more common, but in my reasoning, the undead are never quite as capable as a living, breathing person. Even the most genius undead are completely bonkers. So the Champions would have legions of undead butchers, some of those plague carrying shock troops would be infested and mutated humans.
Maybe the first muls were bred by Borys to be carriers of the sickness. Their human half would keep them healthy, but their dwarven half would get dwarves sick.
Maybe the first muls were bred by Borys to be carriers of the sickness. Their human half would keep them healthy, but their dwarven half would get dwarves sick.
Brilliant! This would probly begin the insult "Mulfather" because if you fathered a Mul you brought death to your own family. Maybe Borys had made a "deal" with some the Dwarves that if they produce a Hybrid they would live (After words the Mul would of done his/her work carring the Dwarf Syndrome (Sorry, I thought it was funny) with him/her killing his Dwarven parents. After all what better to kill your enemy than to do it from the inside out.
So Borys sent a plague against the Dwarves. He conjured a horrible infectious death that killed only dwarves. Borys started breeding legions of plague-infested soldiers both alive and dead to fight against the Dwarves. Dwarven magic had no defense to keep the people safe and the Dwarves started dying.
The odd thing is, The Beardless were immune to the Great Death. And in the final centuries of the Cleansing Wars, The Beardless rose up and defended their dwarven brethren with every spell, trick and violent act that their bearded brothers were capable of, and even though the Dwarves with beards were dying, the Dwarven race continued on in the loosing battle against Borys. The defeat of Rakard, the last of the Dwarven Kings, was the last Battle of the Cleansing Wars, but also it was the last battle with bearded dwarves.
The Great Death spread through the rest of the Dwarven people during the century-long rampage of Borys. Finally the only Dwarves left were The Beardless. The line of the Dwarven Kings is forever broken, but the Dwarven people live on as long as there is ground to walk on.
So... thoughts?
Ach, I do like it, but can't use it, since it duplicates our history of Albeorn's attack on Kurn
That sort of biowar is a trick that the Champions would not have been able to pull off twice. I think it makes more sense as applied to Elves, since the biowar tribalizes the elves, destroying their culture as they realize that they only way to survive is to isolate themselves from all other elves and to live like fugitives.Ach, I do like it, but can't use it, since it duplicates our history of Albeorn's attack on Kurn
Biowar against the Elves is cool and I'm not arguing against it. But out of the (at least) 15 Rebirth Races on Athas, why could disease only have been used on the Elves? Why couldn't they use biowar against more than one race? By the time Albeorn was sieging Kurn and Borys was sieging Kemalok, the Cleansing Wars were in their death throes and inter-race communication was probably totally broken down. So... why not?
-J
By the time Albeorn was sieging Kurn and Borys was sieging Kemalok, the Cleansing Wars were in their death throes
Like I said, I can't use it. We've developed it so that Keltis resettled Kurn shortly after reporting that he'd destroyed the lizardmen, i.e. many King's Ages before Borys beseiged Kemalok.
I like how our story works out accounting for how elven culture was eradicated. Duplicating the story against the dwarves would undermine that.
why could disease only have been used on the Elves
I didn't say that. I just want nothing to do with duplicating the elven story on the one group that did the *best* job of preserving its culture. It undermines our story.
Biowar against the Elves is cool and I'm not arguing against it. But out of the (at least) 15 Rebirth Races on Athas, why could disease only have been used on the Elves? Why couldn't they use biowar against more than one race? By the time Albeorn was sieging Kurn and Borys was sieging Kemalok, the Cleansing Wars were in their death throes and inter-race communication was probably totally broken down. So... why not?
-J
In this case, specifically because there's no time.
While there's no evidence to support what you said about Kurn, you're quite correct that Borys beseiged Kemalok literally during the last days of the Cleansing Wars. In fact, it was only hours or days after killing the fully bearded R'kard that Borys *left* the scene of the battle to go kill his master Rajaat. Now if you go with RoFoaDK, then Borys *intended* to come back and finish the dwarves off, but don't make the mistake of assuming that he came back to lead his army against Kemalok.
As you may recall, the attack on Rajaat didn't go completely as planned. The Champions were unable to kill Rajat, so [I think you know the story here ]. Anyway, with Borys turned into a Dragon and insane for some 70 years or so afterwards, I don't think that anyone was cool-headed enough to wage biowar on the dwarves. Borys was too busy eating everyone, and everyone else was too busy trying to survive. The cleansing wars were *over*
So while it's a cool story, the timing of the seige, the death of R'kard, and the rebellion make it impossible that this was the cause for dwarven hairlesness. There are a lot of facts to keep track of for Athasian history; I've had to drop a few cool stories myself because I discovered conflicts with other facts.
I really think the modern dwarf's physical characteristics are nothing more than evolutionary adaptation, albiet at a much more rapid pace than real word evolution.
In this case, specifically because there's no time.
While there's no evidence to support what you said about Kurn, you're quite correct that Borys beseiged Kemalok literally during the last days of the Cleansing Wars. In fact, it was only hours or days after killing the fully bearded R'kard that Borys *left* the scene of the battle to go kill his master Rajaat.
Just because R'kard wasn't dead from the disease yet, doesn't mean the disease didn't exist. R'kard was a King, and I would conjecture he had mighty magics keeping him from dying or getting too sick. The disease could have broken the dwarven people where by battle not even Borys could win against the dwarves. By the time of the Last Stand at Kemalok, the majority of the dwarven people left were beardless. And only during Borys' Rampage did the last of the bearded dwarves die off.
I don't have Borys unleashing his plague at the Seige of Kemalok, I have him unleashing it several generations earlier.
I must have missed that part. ;)
I'm not sure how I was asking you to use it though...
Here's my take on the hair/hairless thing. Opinions are welcome.
Disclaimer: This is not a challenge to the official lye bath scenario in any way, it is merely presented as an alternative for development in a personal campaign. I am presenting this concept to the community for discussion about it's plausibility and 'Dark Sunny-ness'. If there are any contradictions present in canonical sources I wholeheartedly invite anyone to bring them up. And to be honest this doesn't truly contradict the lye-bath thing, but only deemphasizes the need for it.
Kurn's school of spies officially exists. Their reports are not necessarily perfectly accurate, any more than the Wanderer is necessarily right about everything. (e.g. that Draj was founded by a "relatively weak defiler.")
I see no problem with it as far as "contradicting" the lye bath description. The fact that Kurnan spies found a description of the procedure in dwarven oroscrit doesn't mean that officially all dwarves would be hairy without the lye bath. Even if only a few dwarves today developed some hair (like the dwarf that Abbey's characters regarded with revulsion because of ear or nose hair or something like that), they regard it with such revulsion that the lye bath might just be an extra precaution.
I'm not sure how I was asking you to use it though...
I inferred that when you seemed upset when I said I couldn't use it.
Well I'm working on the Green Age. Since this is Athas Central, I want the consent and/or approval of the vocal guys on this board, and ultimately the Overcouncil.
Like I told you before, my position has always been that extensive history-for-history's-sake documents are for internal use only, (like Wisdom of Sorrow) and that we only publish parts of these documents when it's relevant to developing a specific area, adventure, city, or other role-playing supplement. That way we give the supplement writers maximum flexibility, and we avoid inconsistency by letting the stuff sit in house and flexible for a long time before publishing.
Note: No beard. As with human cultures, the possession of a beard is dependent on the dwarven culture.
Note: No beard. As with human cultures, the possession of a beard is dependent on the dwarven culture.
If it were completely dependent on culture and culture alone, then why aren't there any hairy Athasian Dwarves? I think the culture aspect is valid, but I think it needs to be bolstered with something that makes hairless dwarves a natural inclination for the race.
If it were completely dependent on culture and culture alone, then why aren't there any hairy Athasian Dwarves? I think the culture aspect is valid, but I think it needs to be bolstered with something that makes hairless dwarves a natural inclination for the race.
Lice.
Proper care and maintence of a beard and haircut takes up valuable time. Time that could be spent on the vital work of catalouging all of the different colors of beetle shells that can be found on the trade roads between Draj and Balic. Better to strip it all off and not have to deal with it, ever. Those beetles won't cataloug themselves!
If it were completely dependent on culture and culture alone, then why aren't there any hairy Athasian Dwarves? I think the culture aspect is valid, but I think it needs to be bolstered with something that makes hairless dwarves a natural inclination for the race.
Ooooo, if indeed culture is the main reason for lack of hair, then one might find faraway colonies - like on the Mountains of the Sun (see the Dragon Crown adventure) - with hairy dwarves!
This would be great indeed.
How about the dwarves of the Last Sea? I don't recall if they're hairy or not.
Ooooo, if indeed culture is the main reason for lack of hair, then one might find faraway colonies - like on the Mountains of the Sun (see the Dragon Crown adventure) - with hairy dwarves!
This would be great indeed.
How about the dwarves of the Last Sea? I don't recall if they're hairy or not.
They live in a dusty old mine and wear scarves over their mouths that are traditionally brown, but by the time the PCs stumble across the last sea, they are more colorful.
The ever present scarves, in an astounding feat of writing ability, cause the population of The Last Sea to joke they are 'the last bearded dwarves on Athas'.
So hairy colonies are still possible.
Nice!
So hairy colonies are still possible.
If that's how you want to take it, it could be fun. The only thing official that I'm aware of is 'Dwarves are hairless.' Brax wrote up a lye bath which negates the need for shaving. My idea is a disease that targeted dwarves that somehow those that had a recessive hairless trait that caused hairlessness were immune to it.
I think the last bearded dwarves on Athas is in reference to the scarves on their face and not that they actually have hair.
I would rather say they can't grow hair then come up with a grand unwavering trend where every single dwarf on Athas shaves.
What about radiation?
What about radiation?
Albeit I've been told some of the exotic metals in the Lord of the Rings RPG are in fact radioactive metals...such a thing would hardly have a place in a world like Athas. Barely has a place on Middle Earth if you ask me.
The substance that the rhulisti used to shape life can hardly be called DNA material. Its a fictional organic material unique to the fantasy world of Athas. DS isn't using scientific principles (a good thing IMO, since this is fantasy): The sun changes color many times, there are two giant moons but apparently no special tides. Oasis and other places of life are not always maintained by natural process such as an aboveground watertable trapped under a stone landscape, naturally bubbling up, but more often than not is artificially maintained - if one can use that term in this instance - by the efforts of a spirit of the land. Destroy or remove that spirit and the oasis dies out.
So how did the Dwarves come into being out of the Rebirth?
I think there was a Rhulisti clan trying to dig a tunnel under the Pristine Tower to collapse it when ZAP! they were made into hairy, squatty miners with amnesia. Thwarted, they left the Pristine Tower with an unreasonable drive to dig tunnels, dress like midget vikings, drink gallons of ale, write everything down and obsessively figure out what their goals in life are.
Albeit I've been told some of the exotic metals in the Lord of the Rings RPG are in fact radioactive metals...
I have no idea where you get that, Penn
Very pithy.
HA HA HAHA!
I have no idea where you get that, Penn
Oh, its second hand. My brother, who's like a collectionner of as many LotR RPG books as he can find, said to me that one of the supplements that describes dozens of alloys that the dwarves came up with actually mentions strange sicknesses that come from a few of those alloys, sicknesses that have no known source, like a curse. Those alloys were rare and extra heavy, which seemed to point to them being radioactive metals adapted to a fantasy campaign.
A rather ethereal remark on his part, but this was meant as trivia.