The piecemeal armor idea always struck me as coming from its post-apocolyptic background. Trying to capture that Mad Max scrounged feeling. The problem with piecemeal armor is that there is more effects with armor in 3.5. That being said, here is a go at piecemeal armor for those interested.
#2kelsenNov 18, 2006 2:49:23
I praise you for the effort and the courage of trying to revisit this theme in our forum. Your proposal seens very similar to what we had in 2E IMHO.
• Maximum Dexterity Bonus is equal to breastplate’s armor type with a bonus of +1 for each pair of limb armor with an AC bonus not worn. For example, if you are just wearing the breastplate from the full plate suit, you Maximum Dexterity Bonus would be +3, but if you were wearing the breastplate from the padded suit, it would still be +8.
However I dare to ask you: if the character isn´t wearing a breastplate? How can I calcule the armor modifiers for Max Dex, Armor Check Penalty etc.? Thanks in advance.
#3kelsenNov 18, 2006 3:26:42
Also, for anybody like me who feels the need of bringing back armor optimization to Dark Sun (as an optinional rule), but always having in mind that it must be simple in mechanics, I bring the following proposal:
#4dirk00001Nov 20, 2006 10:30:21
...biggest problem, by far, with piecemeal armor rules: how do you adjudicate magical armor abilities, especially non-enhancement-bonus effects? I use a hit location system for my game, which makes determining the AC easy (since each location can have it's own, and different, AC), but to cover as many of the magic-armor situations as possible took quite a bit of work. All-told my hit location and piecemeal armor rules take up something like 3 pages, at 10-point font size, with extremely small page borders (.55 inches all around, IIRC).
#5kelsenNov 20, 2006 20:44:24
...biggest problem, by far, with piecemeal armor rules: how do you adjudicate magical armor abilities, especially non-enhancement-bonus effects?
Non-enhancement-bonus effects should be left appart, since they can only be made functional while wearing the full suit. In the other hand, ordinary armor enhacement-bonus to AC could be handled as I suggested above, and this kind of bonus is what we have most of the times.
#6kelsenNov 24, 2006 19:43:15
It´s a pity that nobody else showed interest in continuing to discuss the piecemeal armor rules in this topic.
Neither critics, neither alternative solutions... only silence.
#7PennarinNov 24, 2006 20:06:04
Horribly complicated rules are surprisingly absent from 3E design. Maybe that's why.
Make piecemeal a Gladiator class ability - maybe one availlable from a series of options - and maybe a feat (or a class ability for a few PrCs) so that other classes can take it. Werrik's Stalkers, for example, seem to have access to piecemeal armor without being gladiators.
#8ruhl-than_sageNov 24, 2006 20:13:45
You have to keep it really simple, otherwise it's really just not worth doing. That either requires a hit loction system, or a certain level of abstraction that just doesn't seem to please most piecemail enthusiasts.
Piecemail rules have been discussed in depth before, with no clean solutions resulting. The best I've seen so far are some of the armor optimization suggestions currently being looked at, but those really don't cover the bredth of what should be possible with piecemail armor.
#9PennarinNov 24, 2006 20:48:25
but those really don't cover the bredth of what should be possible with piecemail armor.
That's just the thing: 3E doesn't have much of a need for breadth when armor rules are concerned. The armor table in the PHB is straightforward and simple. So much so that few are the mundane armors being created for settings or in Dragon articles.
I have no desire to "tweak" my armor until its +1 there, -1 there, and 2 pounds less heavy. A class ability that does something similar but real simple, like "treat breasplate armor as hide armor in all ways except for AC"? Right on.
#10mouthymercNov 26, 2006 7:55:41
This was just something the tinkerer in me put together. Personally, I never liked the whole piecemeal aspect of armor. I like the gladiator armors in the Dragon Companion and will use those.
#11kelsenNov 26, 2006 13:13:49
You have to keep it really simple, otherwise it's really just not worth doing. That either requires a hit loction system, or a certain level of abstraction that just doesn't seem to please most piecemail enthusiasts.
Piecemail rules have been discussed in depth before, with no clean solutions resulting. The best I've seen so far are some of the armor optimization suggestions currently being looked at, but those really don't cover the bredth of what should be possible with piecemail armor.
That´s why I insisted people should talk about piecemeal on this topic... not because I think my solution was best, but to keep on trying to find a good one.
For what I've seen above, people suggested we could have a class ability called "piecemeal armor". I suggest it should work much like as Jon's suggestion for armor optimization (in the other topic), but with 3 degrees of development, for example:
Improved Piecemeal armor: +1 maximum dexterity bonus, -10% armor weight;
Perfected Piecemeal armor: armor is treated as one category lighter, -10% armor weigth.
The description of the ability should point out that it reflects the ability of the gladiator to put off or substitute some parts of his armor for lighter ones, without prejudice to its overall protection.
#12dirk00001Nov 26, 2006 13:47:37
For what I've seen above, people suggested we could have a class ability called "piecemeal armor". I suggest it should work much like as Jon's suggestion for armor optimization (in the other topic), but with 3 degrees of development, for example:
Improved Piecemeal armor: +1 maximum dexterity bonus, -10% armor weight;
Perfected Piecemeal armor: armor is treated as one category lighter, -10% armor weigth.
The description of the ability should point out that it reflects the ability of the gladiator to put off or substitute some parts of his armor for lighter ones, without prejudice to its overall protection.
Something along those lines has been my suggestion from the other topic, as I think it best fits with the whole idea of a gladiator as an "optimist fighter." I think that the bonuses could actually be a little better than the ones you just suggested though, perhaps including a +1 circumstance bonus to AC at some point, but otherwise I like it.
#13ruhl-than_sageNov 26, 2006 21:59:03
The description of the ability should point out that it reflects the ability of the gladiator to put off or substitute some parts of his armor for lighter ones, without prejudice to its overall protection.
You would be free to conceptualize your piecemail armor configuration how you wanted, but the system wouldn't go into detail about how combining various pieces together would work.
So for instance if you had the ability/feat and you wanted the augmented stats of Studded Leather Armor, you could say that you wore two chain sleeves connected at the back and a pair of harden leather pants, or you could say that you wore a pair of bronze bracers and shin guards and an open faced helmet. Sonething that you think would roughly give you the stats.
#14spellfire_junkieDec 21, 2006 14:43:38
I may have missed this somewhere along the way, but what is the bonus conferred by wearing a helmet, be it closed or open faced, or just a skull cap? Or perhaps, is it simply that this is too small of coverage to provide a measurable bonus? Anyone care add to this?
#15OninotakiDec 21, 2006 15:57:57
I like the idea of having a piecemeal armor prof. feat that allows someone make armor easier to move in(lighter weight, lower ACP, higher dex modifier) while giving the any critical hits against them a bonus to confirm criticals. I just have not run the numbers yet.
I also like the idea of a gladiators armor optimzation only increasing the defensive value of armor. I also have not yet run the numbers on this yet.
