The focus on the first volume will be the Known World (extending from Sind to Esterhold, Glantri to Minrothad, plus the Hinterlands and Norwold). I have chosen not to include Wendar and Denagoth, even though they are part of the expanded KW region, partly because I don't want to overlap OldDawg's Gazetteers, and partly because I don't know that much about those nations.
When deciding what regions are available (for determining feats/languages/skills/etc.) I figured that most individual cutures are sharply seperated by country borders, even if not by geographical regions. I chose not to list the demi/semi-human homelands, referencing only the races. That way a Callarii elf may choose Karameikos OR Forest elf as his "region", but a human may not select "Forest Elf" unless he actually grew up in Alfhiem or some other major elven culture (allowing for Foresters).
There is some overlap, which I think could be determined by an "overlay" map, depicting where, and how far, the regions extend beyond the normal borders--such as the Ylaruam region overlapping into Tel ak-Bir... a character from Tel ak-Bir would have to choose either Thyatis or Ylaruam, but not both.
With that said, here are the regions I've come up with, with a few notes for clarification... What do you think? Any suggestions for tweaking, changes, alternate solutions, etc?
Alphatia
– Alatia
– Bellissaria
– Esterhold
– Isle of Dawn
– Qeodhar
– Thothia
Atruaghin
Darokin
Dwarf, Rockborn
– Modriswerg
Elf, Forest note: standard elf
– Belcadiz
– Sylvan note: elves which stayed behind in the Sylvan Realm till zero hour
– Shadow
– Water note: Meditor
– Shiye-Lawr
– Sea note: Aquarendi
Ethengar
Glantri
– Averoigne
– Boldavia
– Klantrye
– Krondahar
Gnome, Earth note: no homeland, must be of race to select this region, optionally may select Rockborn dwarf
– Sky
Heldann
Hin
Hutaaka note: no homeland, msut be of race to select region
Ierendi
Jaibul note: may optionally select Sind
Karameikos, Thyatian note: not a unique region, select Thyatis or Hattias
– Traladaran
Lupin note: no homeland
Minrothad
Northern Reaches
Norwold
Rakasta note: no homeland
Sind
Thyatis
– Hattias
– Hinterlands
– Isle of Dawn
– Ochlea
– Pearl Islands
Ylaruam
Comments are extremely welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Roger
Why Lupins and Rakasta are homeless? What about Renardie and Bellaine?
What about the Kingdom of Denwarf-Hurgon for Rock Gnome homeland (and Highforge too, in Karameikos)?
I miss all Hollow World people (exept Hutaakans)
I would divide Atruaghin between totem animals: Horse, Bear, Tortle, Tiger (or was it Viper? text and map in Gaz14 are not together) and Elk.
Elves have Belcadiz... what about Erewan?
In Glantri I miss Bergdhoven too: the Flaemish people.
gawain vii, I generally agree with with the region breakdowns. I would alter the demi-human ones however. I would have a generic one, but maybe look into smaller subdivisions based on clan/shire as they do have distinct differences. Using Elf, for example:
Elf, Forest (primary Elf Race on Mystara)
- Chossum
- Erendyl
- Feadiel
- Grunalf
- Long Runner
- Mealidil
- Red Arrow
- Vyalia
- Shiye-Lawr
- Callarii
- Belcadiz
- Erewan
- Verdier
Elf, Aquatic (Aquarendi- separate subrace and region)
Elf, Shadow (a separate subrace and region)
Elf, Water (a separate subrace and region)
- Meditor
Now a Forest Elf character could select a generic Forest Elf "region", or the region of his clan (if he has one), or possibly the region he lives in. A similar breakdown could be done for the Dwarves and Hin as well. The clans are important to the demi-humans, so I would try to use 3.5E systems in a way that reflects that (clan membership can change an Elf's favored class and often give them the ability to treat a certain skill as a class skill, etc...)
Arcanda's suggestion of separate regions for each Atruaghin Clan is a good one too. Perhaps breakdown the Northern Reaches too, an Ostlander would probably be different than a Vestlander (maybe not to an outsider at first glance, but certainly to each other).
I know my suggestions seem like more work, but regional feats/languages/equipment really help distinguish characters early on and in a setting like Mystara can add a ton of flavor (our house rule gives every character a free regional feat at creation because they are often overlooked otherwise for more "useful" combat or spellcasting feats).
I think what he means by "homeless" is that Lupins and Rakasta do not have a homeland in the Known World (which is all this list really deals with). A lupin in the Known World would base his languages/feats/equipment on his cultural "region" Lupin. In the Savage Coast, a Lupin living in Renardie could choose between Renardie and Lupin regions.
Most likely, though there are many Lupins native to Glantri and Thyatis (Ochalea, Thyatis proper and Hattias) and at least one native breed each for Ostland, Heldann, Norwold, and Ylaruam, so IMO Lupins should be allowed to select their culture as humans.
OTOH, there are very few Rakasta in the KW, with limited exceptions in Glantri (Khurish Massif), Ochalea (rocky badlands) and Norwold (high mountains and tundra).
As far as demihumans, I had a hard time deciding how to work with them. I don't want to over-load the reader by providing between 12-100+ regions for each and every clan, but at the same time, I didn't want all the clans of one race to be essentially the same. So, as a comprimise, I made the obvious subraces of Shadow and Water (in the case of the elves), and took the standard elves and invented "sub-"races for them, thus the distinction between Forest, Stlvan, Shiye, and Water elves. Statistically, in OD&D, they're all identical, only the clan fluff seperates them... I chose to seperate them by MAJOR differences, while keeping them in a relatively small number of groups for the sake of redundancy (and it's easier to write it up that way).
As far as Atruaghin goes... I must admit that I don't know much about them. If someone would like to submit a proposal for me to use, I would certainly use it. On the same lines as above, I don't want a different writeup for every clan, but if there were some middle-ground, maybe Lower & Plateau clans, or Forest and Plains?
Agathokles, what you suggested is how it will work. A Lupin living in Ochlea would select EITHER Lupin OR Thyatis, Ochlea... but he would not be able to select both, or switch back and forth (that would be unfair to the more common races).
Roger
Noreach
--Vestland
--Ostland
--Soderfjord
--Heldann
Yes, no?
Roger
Agathokles, what you suggested is how it will work. A Lupin living in Ochlea would select EITHER Lupin OR Thyatis, Ochlea... but he would not be able to select both, or switch back and forth (that would be unfair to the more common races).
I didn't understand it, sorry -- just like Arcanda, I'm strictly non-3e, so I'm not that knowledgeable on these details.
Anyway, would the Rakasta work in the same way? That would be harder, since there's no Rakasta community integrated into any of the human/demihuman nations, AFAIK.
As far as demihumans, I had a hard time deciding how to work with them. I don't want to over-load the reader by providing between 12-100+ regions for each and every clan, but at the same time, I didn't want all the clans of one race to be essentially the same. So, as a comprimise, I made the obvious subraces of Shadow and Water (in the case of the elves), and took the standard elves and invented "sub-"races for them, thus the distinction between Forest, Stlvan, Shiye, and Water elves. Statistically, in OD&D, they're all identical, only the clan fluff seperates them... I chose to seperate them by MAJOR differences, while keeping them in a relatively small number of groups for the sake of redundancy (and it's easier to write it up that way).
As far as Atruaghin goes... I must admit that I don't know much about them. If someone would like to submit a proposal for me to use, I would certainly use it. On the same lines as above, I don't want a different writeup for every clan, but if there were some middle-ground, maybe Lower & Plateau clans, or Forest and Plains?
Roger
I understand your reasoning, this is meant for a more general conversion and probably needs to keep on the simpler side. I may expand upon it later for my campaign
As for the Atruaghin Clans, you have the:
Horse Clan- US Plains Indians like the Sioux
Elk Clan- Northeastern US Indians like the Iroquois
Bear Clan- Southwestern US Indians like the Navejo
Turtle Clan- Northwestern US Indians like the Chinook
Tiger Clan- Central American Natives like the Aztec
The Turtle and Tiger do not reside on the Plateau. The Bear clan trades with Darokin and possesses a method for getting up and down the Plateau.
Group together Horse and Bear as "plains", Elk and Turtle as "woods", and Tiger seperately
Or, keep the clans together as one singular region, and provide some clan distinction (maybe two "class" skills each) in the Geography chapter? If this is the option chosen, I could use the same method for demi-humans.
Yes, Agatholes, that would apply to all non-humans, as well as humans who grew up seperate from their homeland... (A Traladaran that lives in Ostland would have to choose.)
As far as the Rakastan tendency to avoid human lands, I figure that even if a Rakastan doesn't live WITH humans, there are still human communities nearby they trade with, so using the Ochlea example again--a Rakasta PC would choose between his race and his physical homeland.
Roger
I'd suggest going with Countries and races only.
Might save you some work
Håvard
This might not be where you have intended to go, but have you considered making a more generalized version with fewer regions?
I'd suggest going with Countries and races only.
Might save you some work
Håvard
That's a capital idea! Would keep it simple for the 3.5 RC and it could always be expanded by later regional supplements or resourceful DMs.
Still, it is a viable option. If I can't get un-stuck during this discussion, I might re-consider it.
Roger
Lets see... I see two methods here:
Group together Horse and Bear as "plains", Elk and Turtle as "woods", and Tiger seperately
Or, keep the clans together as one singular region, and provide some clan distinction (maybe two "class" skills each) in the Geography chapter? If this is the option chosen, I could use the same method for demi-humans.
Roger
I disagree
Bear is not a "plains" clan, since they live in mesa villages... they are more a "cliff" clan than a plains clan.
Horse children are a plain clan.
Elk would be a wood clan, but not Turtle. Turtles are fishermans, not woodsmans.
Tigers are separate, they are much like Azcans.
I'm not a big fan of regions in the sense of feat restrictions/offerings- though I do like a lot of what FR did with them. In my experience trying to work Mystara Regions, I find that the nature of Mystara is a lot less forgiving when it comes to the broad cultural definitions found in the Realms. Places like Glantri, in particular (with its mishmash of many different cultures) tend to make regional rules not work all that well.
I prefer the Eberron take, where the Regions are presented as suggestions of skills, feats, and classes rather than "regional feats"; a big reason is that I don't feel that- for the most part- regional feats are unique enough to restrict to only one possible area. They are a little too broadly painted cultural strokes for my tastes to justify limiting them thusly.
I do like how the PGtF delineated differences between human and demihuman cultural regions, however, so have sort of incorporated that into my current frame of thought (I much prefer demihuman regions to generic "gold elf, gold dwarf" etc, particularly in Mystara where demihuman cultures can potentially be as diverse as human cultures).
These are the (still in progress) regions as I last had them:
Human Regions
Alfheim Town
Atruaghin
Darokin Heartlands
Darokin Borderlands
Emirate of Makistan
Emirate of Nithia
Ethengar Khanates
Fort Doom
Glantri
Honor Island
Ierendi Isles
Island of Hattias
Karameikos
Kerendan Plains
Minrothad Guilds
Northern Reaches
Principality of Aalban
Principality of Bergdhoven
Principality of Blackhill
Principality of Boldavia
Principality of Caurenze
Principality of Klantyre
Principality of Krondahar
Principality of New Averoigne
Republic of Darokin
Shadowdeep (Barimoor)
Shadowdeep (Cynidicea)
Thyatis
Ylaruam
Dwarf
Buhrohur
Fortress Island
Highforge
Ostland
Republic of Darokin
Rockhome
Shadowdeep (Korrag Dul)
Soderfjord Jarldoms
Vestland
Ylaruam
Elf
Alfeisle
Canolbarth Forest
Darokin Borderlands
Darokin Heartlands
Five Shires
Glantri
Radlebb Woods
Shadowdeep (Gwaithallin)
Vyalia Woods
Gnome
Emirate of Makistan
Glantri
Hardanger Mountains
Highforge
Ierendi Isles
Minrothad Guilds
Republic of Darokin
Rockhome
Wendar Mountains
Halfling
Alfheim Town
Darokin Borderlands
Five Shires
Ierendi Isles
Karameikos
Open Isle
Half-Orc
Alfheim Town
Altan Tepes Mountains
Broken Lands
Dymrak Forest
Jungles of Atruaghin
Land of Black Sand
Oenkmar
Orclands
Shadowdeep (Broken Lands)
Half-Elf
Alfheim Town
Belcadiz
Clanholds of Namahed
Darokin Borderlands
Glantrian Highlands
Minrothad Guilds
Vestland
The above regions I couple with a sort of "Races of Faerun" type approach to the various races of Mystara, breaking them down into cultural groups, like so:
Ethnicities, Human
Alasiyan: These humans were originally a subject race of the ancient Nithian empire from the Isle of Dawn. They are the principal ethnic stock of the Emirates of Ylaruam, and form minority groups in Thyatis and eastern Darokin. They are a ducky skinned people, with dark brown to black hair and eyes. They are slightly taller and leaner than most other humans, and have sharp facial features. Largely nomadic, they value the family and tribal unit above all, and have a deep reverence for the Immortals.
Cyprian: Derogatorily referred to as “Common” Alphatians these humans are the result of generations of interbreeding between the otherworldy “Pure” Alphatians and the Cypri civilization. Outside of the continent of Alphatia, they are found primarily in the islands of the Minrothad Guilds or in the Emirates of Ylaruam. Cyprians have coppery skin tones, and their hair and eye color ranges widely, with brown hair and green eyes most common. They are tall and lean, with delicate bones and facial features.
Atruaghin: (The description here goes into more detail about the specific clan groups and their natures, etc.)
Ethengarian: etc.
Hattian: etc.
Heldannic: etc.
Makai: etc.
Thyatian: etc.
Traladaran: etc.
Other Human Ethnicities: Among the numerous other human ethnic groups on Mystara are the Aalbanese warmages, wizardly Flaemish, red-headed Klantyre clansmen, and romantic Sylairans of Glantri, the mysterious Honor Islanders of Ierendi, the dark Nithian necromancers, the Kerendans of Thyatis, and the pale-skinned “pure” Alphatians.
And so on for the other races (The only subrace of elf that I have is the Shadow elf, which has some different mechanics. I didn't feel that the Water elves were mechanically different enough to warrant a whole subrace to themselves).
Thus, you can have an Aalbanese human from say, the Traladaran region (maybe his parents emigrated there), or a Shadow Elf from Darokin (a spy, maybe, or transplant).
Anyway, I've gone back and forth on it a couple of times, and that was just the most recent concept that I'd had.
I think I shared some of what I had been working on with you already
Yes, we did talk about layout and what info is/is not included in our respective conversions, but I don't think regions, in particular, were discussed.
Anyway, I do like the format for regions used in PGtF... I was actually looking over it this morning for a bit of inspiration. That method is probably the most complete method... and the one which required the most work--and I'm already bummed out after having taken so long in the first place--part of the reason I wanted a simpler (but not too simple) method.
I was thinking, however, that we both were using the same format and style... You don't have as much time as you used to... And my work is well behind schedule, perhaps we can augment each other? If you would agree to share design credit with me, you could send me your files... I'd use your info to fill in mine... Then I'd send the compilation to you, where you'd edit, tweak, modify, etc.. and we'd go back and forth till we ended up with something we were both comfortable with... then I have a gaming friend who does layouts for local magazines... he's already agreed to do this layout for me... and I now have Acrobat Pro... so all we'd have to do then, is find an artist who is more reliable than the one I previously had lined up...
Yes, no? Private Message me with email info if you would like to do this.
Roger