Need a little help with the wording of an alterative class feature for the druid I've been working on. While not specifically dark sun related, I trust and respect the opinions and suggestion from the people here more than I do the folks on the other boards.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Touch of Vitality
The dead seek the life energies of the living. The druid understands the relationship that the living have with nature and the connection they share. Through your studies you have unlocked the means to channel nature to help undo the harm caused by the undead.
Level: 1st.
Replaces: You do not gain the ability to spontaneously convert prepared spells into summon nature's ally spells.
Benefit: You can transform the stored energy of a spell you have prepared to rejuvenate the living.
As a standard action you can sacrifice a prepared spell to touch an ally in order to grant them a Fort save (DC10+1/2 undead attacker's HD+attacker's Cha modifier) to recover from ability damage or negative levels. If the saving throw succeeds, the touched creature heals an amount of ability damage equal to the sacrificed spell's level or one half the spell's level for the purposes of removing negative levels. This ability only grants a saving throw if the time since the ability damage or negative level effect is equal to or less than one round per druid level. You can only use this ability to grant a saving throw against ability damage or negative levels caused by the special attacks of undead creatures.
I'm just looking for peeps to look it over and see if the ability could be better worded or made clearer on a literary and grammar standpoint.
On a side note, this would make a great ability for druids travelling to the Deadlands.
I like your idea of druids being the ones more connected to life. It sounds a bit like druids channeling positive energy, and the mechanists might have problems with druids "treading on cleric territory," but thing is, that we're in Athas, and cleric territory should be more elemental ... the life stuff traditionally in Athas was more for druids. (Trouble is that if we tweaked at that level, it would be very hard to test and balance.) But as a storyteller, I think you're onto something ... flesh out the idea and the underpinning justification, though.
Brax, IIRC you worked on the Dead Lands project, so have you guys considered this?
This ability would be especially useful in campaigns in which a druid character is expecting to combat undead on a regular basis (i.e. Ravenloft or a Deadland heavy campaigns). Druid characters in the Deadlands would find this replacement ability extremely useful due to the lack living animals in that vicinity.
Additionally, I’m persoanlly not a big fan of summoning in the game especially when it comes to the druid. The druid is allegedly the defender of nature, but without hesitation will summon a group of animals to be slaughtered in order to defeat an adversary? That doesn’t come across as being nature friendly to me. I’m not saying that Touch of Vitality is an all around good replacement for all campaigns, but it could be depending on the specific campaign or game world.
Sysane, I'm not talking about whether druids should be able to fight undead or not, but rather if they can access spells while in the Dead Lands....like wizards can't access plant life energy while in the Black or Gray.
Sorry, didn't see your post Penn. I was addressing Brax's post with my previous response.
I would think it would be tough for a druid to function at full strength while in the Dead Lands. Perhaps the Seventh Tree could grant druids power while there. That is, if the Seventh Tree still exists.
Are spirits of the land accessible (i.e. can they grant spells) by druids while in the Dead Lands?
Brax, IIRC you worked on the Dead Lands project, so have you guys considered this?
We didn't while I worked on the DL stuff, but I've been off the Dead Lands project since we first put out TotDL.
Good question. Sysane's about spells coming from the 7th Tree has possibilities.
Sysane, your statement makes sense to me, but summoning critters from your own land was part of the DS2 Druid toolkit, even though that was at much higher levels. So I predict that you'll encounter resistance in that, though not from me. You're trying to be faithful to the basic idea, purpose, and function of a class, and that sort of thinking is not popular with the school of canonical fundamentalist literalism.
You're trying to be faithful to the basic idea, purpose, and function of a class, and that sort of thinking is not popular with the school of canonical fundamentalist literalism.
What is the tuition like here? Can I get a campus tour? Is is semesters or quarters? :P :P :P :P :P
What is the tuition like here? Can I get a campus tour? Is is semesters or quarters? :P :P :P :P :P
Nope. Semesters or quarters would require occasional breaks. The school of canonical fundamentalist literalism never lets up; it's unrelenting. ;)
Anyway, looking at this ability, I've got some questions:
- What kind of ability is it (SP, SU, EX, something else)?
- Does using this ability provoke any attacks of oportunity?
- Is the ability damage of all abilities healed, or just the damage of one ability?
- Does an ally, who had lost abilty points and levels, heal both or just one of these? (Which is healed first?)
- The DC is based on the attackers HD and Cha-Mod. What happens if an ally got damaged by more than just one attacker?
Maybe these questions willl help you to reword the ability, despite my concerns about this ability.
I think this class feature is too powerfull, especially at lower levels. Basically it allows to replicate (although in a less effective way) a 2nd level (lesser restoration for ability damage) and a 4th level spell (restoration for ability drain, negative levels); and this at the 1st level. Of course it is not as effective as the spells, but the ability is faster (standard action vs. 3 rounds) and cheaper (no material costs and no XP-costs if compared to restoration or greater restoration). Besides neither restoration nor greater restoration are on the druid's spell list. IMO playing with this ability, the undead opponents' challanging ratings are going to be messed up, as it is easier to protect oneself against their attacks.
Well you do have to consider what it's replacing.... which is pretty significant.
:
What kind of ability is it (SP, SU, EX, something else)?.
It doesn't have a type. It's a form of spontaneous casting which, as far as I know, doesn't have a type tagged to it.
Does using this ability provoke any attacks of oportunity?
Yes.
Is the ability damage of all abilities healed, or just the damage of one ability?
One ability per use.
Does an ally, who had lost abilty points and levels, heal both or just one of these? (Which is healed first?)
One of these which is decided on by the druid at the time the ability is used.
The DC is based on the attackers HD and Cha-Mod. What happens if an ally got damaged by more than just one attacker?
Druid chooses which attacker's damage he's granting the save for.
Maybe these questions willl help you to reword the ability, despite my concerns about this ability
Don't know if the ability needs to be reworded to cover these. The ability is based on other feats, spells, and abilities which don't cover most of what you're concerned over.
But this is just a classification issue.
Well you do have to consider what it's replacing.... which is pretty significant.
Exactly. This ability is far from overpowered. Its granting a chance to undo the effects of ability damage, or ability drain, or negative levels with a limited time to do so. Its not guaranteed like restoration spells.
IIRC a druid can summon nature's ally of the same (or lower) level then the spell level he sacrificed. Thus, replacing 1st level spell for 1st level spell, which sounds balanced IMHO. Wether or not Touch of Vitality automatically removes or decreases effects doesn't matter IMO, but at which level it does. A druid is only able to cure ability damage at 3rd level, with this ability he would be able to that at 1st level. A druid cannot cure ability drain or negative levels (no spell of PHB allows him to that), but with this ability he could, and he could that at the very first level. Even a cleric has to be at least of 7th level to cure ability drain or negative levels, and he has to pay for doing so, while a druid don't have to. Whether the touched creature succeeds the save or not, or whether all or only a part of the damage is healed or not doesn't matter IMO. My point is, that there shouldn't even be the opportunity to do such things at lower levels, that's why I think it could mess up CRs.
Now, let's take a look at spontaneous rejuvanation. The game is usually based on a party of 4-5 players. A 1st level druid would be able to heal an amount of 12 to 15 points of damage, but only 3 points per character. The fact the at 1st level only 1 hp per round is healed makes this ability much weaker than a cure light wounds spell. But healing multiple characters equals it again. Spontaneous rejuvanation is for low level druids not a combat spell, but an after combat spell, that's why it could heal more points of damage IMO.
I wouldn't have a problem, if you would add that at 6th/7th level could use this ability to remove ability drain or negative levels, but the opportunity to heal negative levels or ability drain shouldn't be given at 1st level, IMHO.
Additionally, removing the negative levels part of touch of vitality is almost a moot point at 1st level. If a character is going to be drained even one level while a 1st level character they're instantly dead.
You may want to look at Libris Mortis as well. There are a few feats in that book which automatically heal ability damage and negative levels by just spending turning attempts with no concern for the time passage of time to when you can heal an ally. If I'm not mistaken most of those feats can be taken at first level.
The only feat I found was Spurn Death's Touch, it heals only 1 negative level, and does not heal ability drain.
Additionally, removing the negative levels part of touch of vitality is almost a moot point at 1st level. If a character is going to be drained even one level while a 1st level character they're instantly dead.
But a 2nd level character could, and the druid could still be 1st level and heal his ally...don't no if that argument realy counts.
The only feat I found was Spurn Death's Touch, it heals only 1 negative level, and does not heal ability drain.
Its ability damage as well. I added drain to help offset that a druid is losing a pretty prominent ability. There's another feat that allows a character to make a save as a standard action to remove a negative level every round. Can't recall the name right now.
But a 2nd level character could, and the druid could still be 1st level and heal his ally...don't no if that argument realy counts
A druid character won't be able to restore negative levels till they have access to 2nd level spells. Don't forget, the ability only removes a number of negative levels equal to half the level of the spell sacrificed. So, the earliest a druid could grant a chance to remove negative one level would be at 3rd level at the cost of a second level spell.
Its ability damage as well. I added drain to help offset that a druid is losing a pretty prominent ability. There's another feat that allows a character to make a save as a standard action to remove a negative level every round. Can't recall the name right now.
Ability damage is temporary, ability drain is permanent....IMO this is a very important difference...
A druid character won't be able to restore negative levels till they have access to 2nd level spells. Don't forget, the ability only removes a number of negative levels equal to half the level of the spell sacrificed. So, the earliest a druid could grant a chance to remove negative one level would be at 3rd level at the cost of a second level spell.
I see....but I'm still not convinced about the balance issue...
Well, if you find this ability unbalanced I guess the one's from Libris Mortis are as well.
I''ll rethink the ability drain portion, but don't feel that it's all that big of deal.
Loosing temporary ability points or losing ability points permanently is a big deal. Ask your player's as soon as they loos them, espiecially if you don't have a cleric in your goupe. It happened in a group I played, and noone was very pleased with the situtation.
Well, if you find this ability unbalanced I guess the one's from Libris Mortis are as well.
I'm not very confortable with them, but at least they are for classes that could also do such efforts (except maybe the Paladin).
The mechanic seems kind of clunky, though. Might simply make more sense to expand the druid spell list at the expense of certain abilities, unless there are druid spells in the list that don't fit Athas very well.
I think that if this ability were broken up into two abilities, it would be better and you would not have to sacrifice anything to keep it powerful - you might actually be able to make the individual parts slightly more powerful.
If this is how a druid would go, I would also suggest replacing some of the other class abilities - off hand I could not point out which ones, but I think the whole theme of a druid with this ability should be altered to fit in line with this ability.
I wouldn't have a problem, if you would add that at 6th/7th level could use this ability to remove ability drain or negative levels, but the opportunity to heal negative levels or ability drain shouldn't be given at 1st level, IMHO.
There I agree. Don't mind Druids having the ability, mind you. But prefer to handle that sort of stuff through spells, since it's already a spell.
The mechanic seems kind of clunky, though.
Any ideas on how to make it less so?
Might simply make more sense to expand the druid spell list at the expense of certain abilities
That can be said of most class abilities. I'm just trying to give a flavored ability for am undead heavy game.
There I agree. Don't mind Druids having the ability, mind you. But prefer to handle that sort of stuff through spells, since it's already a spell.
Most supernatural or spell-like abilities can be replicated thru spells though.
Any ideas on how to make it less so?
That can be said of most class abilities. I'm just trying to give a flavored ability for am undead heavy game.
Rules mechanics aren't my forte, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.
Since you're replacing the nature ally spells, create a different set of spells, I through IX, and use those for spontaneous replacement. That way, so long as the spells are balanced 1st, 2nd, 3rd level spells, etc., no one can complain that your change is unbalanced.
While you're at it, you could swap out the animal companion for ....
I would have to say that my first impression if the ability is that it is overly powerful as it is. Never have druids had powers against undead, but I am not opposed to the idea, I just wanted to be sure that this was said.
Its really not that broken vs. undead though. The ability isn’t an automatic heal of abilities or removal of negative levels. The character still needs to make a save.
Now what if I expanded the ability out to negative level drain or ability damage/drain from ALL creature and not undead? That may be a little over balanced. This ability is pretty situational when you think about it. Especially compared to sacrificing spells to spontaneously cast summon nature’s ally spells in useful in almost every situation.
Since you're replacing the nature ally spells, create a different set of spells, I through IX, and use those for spontaneous replacement. That way, so long as the spells are balanced 1st, 2nd, 3rd level spells, etc., no one can complain that your change is unbalanced...
Appreciated the suggestion, but I’m going to pass on going that route with this ability.
While you're at it, you could swap out the animal companion for
There already is one in PHBII
I streamlined the ability somewhat. I removed the bonus to the save and that it can heal ability drain.
Thoughts?
Also, since the ability has multiple effects, does not correlate directly to a spell, and is basically channelling of energy, it's Supernatural, not Spell-like.