1. Is it the domain's strong connection to the Dream Plane? Unlikely. If this was the case, then domains with similar strong connections to other planes would tecnically be pockets. Just look at the Shadow Rift (and presumably, Arak), Necropolis, and Bluetspur (if you prefer the alternate version that was introduced by the Kargatane).
2. Is it the fact that it is floating in the Mists? Given the fact that technically the various Islands of Terror (not to mention the Core and Clusters) "float" with in the Mists, this cannot be the reason.
3. Does it reside within another domain? Uncertain. If this was the case, then Markovia, Blaustein, Ghastria, Demise, Liffe, Lil de la Tempete, and the Isle of Ravens could be considered Pocket Domains within their respective sea domain locations. Necropolis, AFAIK, is also a full-fledged Core domain and not a Pocket despite it's location within Darkon.
Anybody got some theories?
The islands don´t fluctuates, they are isolated in the mists, but they can´t move. The Nightmare Lands even appears sometimes in the Nocturnal Sea.
The same was supposed to happen to Nosos. Malus Sceleris, the darklord, can control the domain, moving the island so he can "steal" the natural resources of another domains, so including the domain among the pocket ones.
The basic concept is that the Nightmare Lands and Pocket domains were both horrors that can 'follow' you or spring up where unexpected.
Matthew L. Martin
I believe it´s because it is a fluctuating domain.
The islands don´t fluctuates, they are isolated in the mists, but they can´t move. The Nightmare Lands even appears sometimes in the Nocturnal Sea.
The same was supposed to happen to Nosos. Malus Sceleris, the darklord, can control the domain, moving the island so he can "steal" the natural resources of another domains, so including the domain among the pocket ones.
Fluctuating sounds good but calling it a pocket still rankles me.
The Islands maybe isolated but it doesn't mean they don't move around. The mistways that connect them to the rest of the demiplane (if any) are more like metaphysical highways than actual physical ones (as I see it).
Concerning Nosos: Where did you hear this? I'm intrigued.So it became an Island and when it was finally detailed in the boxed set it was made an Island of Terror that moved about the sea and could just appear anywhere. Essentially it was the first "pocket".
You're likely getting rankled because Pockets used to describe small postage-stamp domains before it was decided to use the terms differently as there were very different types of pockets being classified as such (including the stationary Castle Island).
Keep in mind that current pockets need not be small or unimportant. They're just not stationary and some can be massive in scale.
Something about the idea of making Nosos a pocket domain was said by John W. Mangrum in the old version of these boards.
About Nosos being able to move, it´s explained in the 2 ed suplement "Islands of Terror", or it was in the "Darklords" ? I don´t remember exactly...
Someone refresh my memory -- where is it actually said that the Nightmare Lands are a pocket domain?
Domains of Dread.
In the chapter Clusters and Pockets which has the Nightmare Lands under the sub-section "Pockets" between Lament and Scaena.
Fluctuating sounds good but calling it a pocket still rankles me.
True, "floating" in the purely geographical sense could apply to the other land-masses as well. We just don't know if they're really in the same spot all the time; heck, with no point of reference, they could all be tearing through the depths of the Mists at a million miles an hour, like the IRL Milky Way galaxy races through space away from the site of the Big Bang.
But it's also assumed that a "floating" pocket domain forms temporary connections with other lands -- some of them just in Ravenloft, some on other planes as well -- that are more direct than the links provided by the Mistways. The Horseman's road, for instance, superimposes itself on the existing landscape, rather than being reached via the Mists. One could argue that the Nightmare Lands was always a "floating pocket", and that it merely stayed stuck to Nova Vaasa, et al, for a bit longer than such temporary linkages usually last.
It's because their links form with different worlds and/or non-pocket domains at different times that we know the pockets have to be shifting their positions, at least relative to the places they connect to. For the non-pockets, we just can't say one way or the other.
Domains of Dread.
Ah, yes, that was my educated guess (having been too lazy to check). All I can say is that I personally didn't consider the NL a pocket domain in 3E, even though I spent some time pushing for a sourcebook that would have covered both nightmares and pocket domains.
Do you have any notes for such a project, or did it not even reach that stage?
It never progressed past a simple proposal. To present the nutshell itself, a working title was Creeping Terrors: Nightmares and Pocket Domains.
A brief intro would have been followed by four chapters of varying lengths.
Chapter One would have presented rules for pocket domains (how they move; patterns; etc.).
Chapter Two would have presented 13 pocket domains with their darklords, including Scaena, Aggarath, Nosos, the House of Lament, the Phantom Lover's tower, the Lonesome Road, and whatever other old ones I'm not remembering, rounded out by a roughly equal number of new domains. Of these, nothing exists beyond the proverbial line scribbled on a paper napkin. One idea was the Undercellar, a sort of bottomless well of basements that appears beneath structures, adding cellar after cellar to its uncounted levels as it moves along. Another pocket domain came in the form of an accursed Vistani vardo, which is as far as that concept had gotten.
Chapter Three would have presented rules for adventuring in dreamscapes. Whatever rules intended to appear here would hopefully have been created from scratch, with an eye toward the dribblings of dream rules presented in the core system. New rules, new feats, etc. With any luck, it would have been much more streamlined than the 2E system.
Chapter Four would have presented the Nightmare Lands in a fair amount of detail, including the Nightmare Court.
That's literally all that exists of this book. It wouldn't have been presented in-character, as a note. At least not as proposed.
I mean, with Sithicus, Darkon and Richemulot, the nightmare lands are the best!
I think I'll have to talk with WW and WotC peoples...
Side topic, John: what did you think of that whole phantasmagora concept in 3e? (I can't even remember if you had a hand in creating it.) For some reason, I keep thinking of the House of Lament as a phantasmagora rather than a domain proper, perhaps because it doesn't seem to have a dominating personality-- Hill House and The Overlook Hotel are this way to me as well. (The Belasco mansion of Richard Matheson's Legend of Hell House, on the other hand, definitely has a darklord type in it!)
Aw, a shame. Especally since the Undercellar and the vardo sound intriguing.
Side topic, John: what did you think of that whole phantasmagora concept in 3e? (I can't even remember if you had a hand in creating it.)
That was Andrew Wyatt, I believe. As for my thoughts on the idea, to be honest, my memories of it are so vague I can't offer an opinion. I don't remember ever having a problem with it, though. (As opposed to the obliettes of VRGttM -- I can't offer an opinion there because I've never read that book and don't even really know what they are.)
The Nightmare Lands were moved from the Core because it didn't fit the more normal world of the Core. Wandering from plains into a terrifying dreamscape was too fantastic.
So it became an Island and when it was finally detailed in the boxed set it was made an Island of Terror that moved about the sea and could just appear anywhere. Essentially it was the first "pocket".
You're likely getting rankled because Pockets used to describe small postage-stamp domains before it was decided to use the terms differently as there were very different types of pockets being classified as such (including the stationary Castle Island).
Keep in mind that current pockets need not be small or unimportant. They're just not stationary and some can be massive in scale.
I've never treated the pockets as small or unimportant, but to me (and you hit the nail on the head) the phrase "pocket domain" implies smallness (a building, an estate, a castle on a really small island;) , I do like that term "postage-stamp"
). One of things I remember being stated about pockets (from DoD, IIRC) is that just because they were small, doesn't mean the lord's power was weak. It meant that the lord actually had better control of his/her/its surroundings (less to worry about). I've always have taken 2 views of pocket lords: The demilord's evil was petty and small (hence the small size), or the evil was so great that a domain so small was an affront to the lord's ego (i.e. the lord of Shadowborn Manor).Chapter Two would have presented 13 pocket domains with their darklords, including Scaena, Aggarath, Nosos, the House of Lament, the Phantom Lover's tower, the Lonesome Road, and whatever other old ones I'm not remembering, rounded out by a roughly equal number of new domains. Of these, nothing exists beyond the proverbial line scribbled on a paper napkin. One idea was the Undercellar, a sort of bottomless well of basements that appears beneath structures, adding cellar after cellar to its uncounted levels as it moves along. Another pocket domain came in the form of an accursed Vistani vardo, which is as far as that concept had gotten.
Dang!
That would've been great. Perhaps someone or someones can start the ball with those ideas (even if unofficial). I'm currently running a non-RL campaign that's going to feature quite a few of the pockets. The only problem is converting some of these lords. The Headless Horseman is a lot harder than it sounds. Most of the abilities he has in 2nd ed. turns into a veriable list (and I do mean LIST) of supernatural effects just to accommodate his curse.Determining the creature type of the Phantom Lover (I'm currently leaning toward fey with the shadow fey and bogeyman subtypes)
And how do you quantify a phantasmagorum domain lord? (House of Lament)
I do plan on posting my conversions (a la Green Giant style) when my campaign completes that encounter (first on the list, the Headless Horseman).
By the way, is the Lonesome Road the HH's official domain name? (I've been calling it the Winding Road [from Darklords accessory])
And how do you quantify a phantasmagorum domain lord? (House of Lament)
I don't think phantasmagoras HAVE a domain lord as such, but are rather a sort of diffuse evil intelligence that resides everywhere in the building. Think of the Overlook Hotel in The Shining; even when the hotel was blown to smithereens, something lingered in the grounds of the place (Halloran encountered it in a garden shed).
The only problem is converting some of these lords. The Headless Horseman is a lot harder than it sounds. Most of the abilities he has in 2nd ed. turns into a veriable list (and I do mean LIST) of supernatural effects just to accommodate his curse.
Call me crazy, but I treat the Horseman as a hazard rather than a creature. Really, at least as portrayed in "Darklords", he's more of a trap than an opponent.
By the way, is the Lonesome Road the HH's official domain name? (I've been calling it the Winding Road [from Darklords accessory])
Calling it the "Winding Road" might invite confusion with the cosmology of that name, from "Manual of the Planes".
Call me crazy, but I treat the Horseman as a hazard rather than a creature. Really, at least as portrayed in "Darklords", he's more of a trap than an opponent.
:D (hey, you asked for it!) The short story from "Tales of Ravenloft" (title?) featuring HH inspired me.Calling it the "Winding Road" might invite confusion with the cosmology of that name, from "Manual of the Planes".
And the "Lonesome Road" implies a certain website to me (not that it really matters, just wondering). Besides, my group is heavily into bad puns and driving up the sexual innuendo of even the most innocent of names and sentences.
And the "Lonesome Road" implies a certain website to me (not that it really matters, just wondering). Besides, my group is heavily into bad puns and driving up the sexual innuendo of even the most innocent of names and sentences.
Presumably the website took its name from the domain, rather than vice versa. As for the kinky-reference issue, don't let that detract from the Ravenloft experience: most of the classic Gothic literature is packed with sexual undertones, even if its Victorian-era readers couldn't admit that in polite company.
Lonesome Road, Winding Road... I honestly don't remember what the domain was called.
I don't think that there was ever an official name. "The Winding Road" is the title to one of the sections within his chapter in Darklords describing the domain.
Scary thought: The Headless Horsman on a motorcycle (sorry, just seen a Ghost Rider trailer:D )
(Which presumably says a lot about the show and/or the 70s, take your pick. ;))
IIRC, a Headless Biker actually made an appearance in one of the old "Kolchak: The Night Stalker" episodes from the 70s.
(Which presumably says a lot about the show and/or the 70s, take your pick. ;))
Not to mention an episode of the Real Ghostbusters cartoon. (Okay, I like to pillage old cartoons for plot ideas, sue me)