How do the bad guys get to Ravenloft to be darlkords? I recall from somewhere before that particularly evil beings from other places are transported to Ravenloft and get made a darklord.
If this is correct, or essentially correct, how do Mystaran bad guys get to Ravenloft? Or perhaps more to the point, how do they not get to Ravenloft? There's heaps of evil guys throughout the history of Mystara, most of them presumably end up as immortals in the sphere of entropy. Now presumably there's only some people who get made darklords, it can't be for everybody, unless Ravenloft is really that huge - there must be some criteria for evil beings to be made darklords. It is difficult to believe that none of the immortals in the sphere of entropy would have been candidates for Ravenloft darklords. And perhaps the next question is how powerful are these Dark Powers of Ravenloft? Could immortals of entropy be made darklords in Ravenloft?
How do the bad guys get to Ravenloft to be darlkords? I recall from somewhere before that particularly evil beings from other places are transported to Ravenloft and get made a darklord.
That's essentially it in a nutshell. The first Darklord, of course, was Strahd von Zarovich. It's sort of an academic question as to whether Domains of Dread existed before he was sucked into the mists or not. Chicken and egg sort of thing.
In any case, Barovia was/is the first acknowledged domain.
As for your question of criteria, well... essentially it's a metagaming issue, to be honest. IE, those people that the TSR staff decided should be in Ravenloft were. In some cases, that didn't always work out to the liking or agreement of the community (Lord Soth, Vecna), and sometimes those things were changed.
The bottom line is there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. There isn't any sort of hard and fast rule about how evil you can be and not get drawn into the mists. It's just one of those things. Either the Dark Powers have some sort of connection to those they pull in, there is some other power(s) at work, or else it's just random.
As you point out, there are a lot of evil people on Mystara that have never been drawn in; the same holds true of many other worlds. Manshoon in the Realms stands out in my mind as one very likely candidate. As does Halaster (heck, with his insanity, he's already almost a Dark Lord. Undermountain would be a very good domain). Iuz on Greyhawk should have been drawn in, if Vecna was. Jaran Krimeah (the mage of the Valley), possibly. Borys the dragon of Athas. Etc.
And perhaps the next question is how powerful are these Dark Powers of Ravenloft?
Unknown. It isn't even quite clear what, if anything, the Dark Powers are. Whether they are sentient, or not. However, it should be noted that the powers of the gods do not seem to penetrate the demiplane of Dread. Clerics still get powers- somehow- but are unable to commune with their patrons. Whether it is due to the gods being blocked, or just having some sort of unspoken agreement to ignore the demiplane, I don't know.
Could immortals of entropy be made darklords in Ravenloft?
In theory. Vecna- a demigod- was drawn into Ravenloft and trapped there, amidst much controversy in the RW. Vecna managed to free himself (another bit of controversy, as something that isn't supposed to be able to happen- though in this case, there have at least been hints at the possibility, as Azalin felt it could be done during the Grand Conjunction).
So, yes- theoretically an entropic immortal could be a darklord there.
Sorry if this wasn't more helpful. There are a lot of vagaries about the nature of the Mists- intentionally so, actually.
You might want to check out the FAQ at the Fraternity of Shadows, though. It has some more information on things.
He just sends his Zentarim to conquer it.
Strahd is an archetypical vampire. Vecna is an archetypical lich. Soth is a death knight. They're not normal fantasy menaces which may conquer or torture, but don't induce nightmares. They're horror masterminds.
The same applies even to the more human masters. Ravenloft takes people who would make a good horror movie mastermind, and leaves alone those evil leaders who don't fit the horror genre.
How do the bad guys get to Ravenloft to be darlkords? I recall from somewhere before that particularly evil beings from other places are transported to Ravenloft and get made a darklord.
As I understand it, it's not just a matter of being evil; you have to be evil due to some tragic flaw, some very human part of you that people who read Gothic novels can sympathize with. Your reasons for falling into darkness are as important or more important than your alignment.
And even then, nobody really knows why the Dark Powers choose the people they choose. Do they snatch people into their demiplane to punish them, to reward them, to keep the rest of the multiverse safe from them, to recruit them into some future conquering army, or to redeem them? It's all dreadfully mysterious.
Being tentacles of Ravenloft itself, mists roll on people with interesting potential. So an evil guy, having more potential than a good one, is likely to attract the mists.
In the same way a rich one is likely to attract thieves. It il likely, but it is not sure! Definitely: a guy will attract the mists of Ravenlof only if the DM wants so! It is impossible to understand the Dark Powers and the DM is the only final ruler.
So, if in your campaign it is important to remove a bad guy... let's Ravenloft engulf him! But if you want him there for more time, let's the mists being interested in a guy from a distant Prime Material, such as Krinn or Grayhawk!
Or if you want to keep the mists near Mystara, let's kidnap Xilochtli! He is more than evil, extremely entropic, quite powerful and his soul is no more his own but Atzanteotl's!
As for Immortals, I think they could reach Ravenloft. But clerics do not recieve all normal spells (such as Commune) becouse they, as mortals, are in fear of the Land of Dread and are not sufficently pure to hear their Immoral patron answers!
Also, it is possible to enter Ravenloft for good people. You just happen to be in the right palce (where the mists are) in the wrong time! Or you could enter Ravenloft to pursuit an enemy, just like Isolde of the Carnival (she is a good eladrin, if I remember correctly). It could be really interesting to be in need of follow an enemy inside the mists. Maybe te villain is the only guy to know the secret word to save the world! And good guys must follow him, hoping to rescue him and finding themselves in a mist prison!
It is also possible for a random guy (not someone chosen by the Dark Powers) to become a dark lord: whit the corrution rules of Ravenloft, any evil action in rewarded with a new power and the guy will, eventually, find himself a new dark lord!
a Demi-Lich when he was sucked in, and it was his rise to godhood that allowed him egress.There is a Dread Lord from Mystara, although no one we know as a main character; he's just some run of the mill necromancer. He doesn't even have an impressive land in the Domain of Dread. Mystaran Dread Lord candidates are probably being more closely watched by Entropic Immortals as Immortal candidates, and the Immortals would fight any outsider incursion when it's this easily noticed.
IMC, the Dark Powers are as powerful as an Immortal, and there is a good reason why they have only one recorded contact with Mystara. Mystara by design is the hardest place for the Dark Powers to reach. The Wallara (Chameleon Men) were a strong instrument in keeping this prison dimension closed. With their devolution, a crack was made, and the prisoner, the Dar(i)k Powers sent a few relics into the world of Mystara to prepare for its coming. The Immortals quickly found out, and sealed the connection to Mystara by drawing dimensional material from around the other barriers as a stop-gap measure. This allowed the Dark Powers to start drawing in Dread Lords from around the multiverse (I use the 2E cosmology, with Mystara at the exact center of the Prime, an anti-Sigil if you will). Their (his) intent? Draw in enough other evil beings (and victims) that a strong worshiping base can be created, allowing them (him) to return to Mystara.
Their (his) one big mistake? They (he) allowed a Mystaran avatar into their plane, one which taught Vecna the Path to Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy. Vecna thinks he's a diety, not knowing what happened to him.
By now, you've figured out, I use Arik as the Dark Powers. I've known some people to use the "Outer Biengs", the Lady of Pain, or the Elder Elemental lords depending on what campaign we come from. No matter who they are, they're not quite completely evil, but they sure aren't nice.
IIRC, Vecna was merely
Actually, Vecna's been a demigod at least since Vecna Lives! (1990), and possibly longer. He wasn't pulled into the mists of Ravenloft until after that (and, IIRC, I believe it is his disappearance in that module into the portals of Tovag Baragu that are said to precede his later appearance in Ravenloft, though I'm not positive).
Some interesting ideas you present, though, about Arik and the Dark Powers. I really like the Chameleon man connection. Out of curiosity, do you tie the d'Ambrevilles and the Land of Gray Mists to Ravenloft in your campaign at all?
Mystaran Dread Lord candidates are probably being more closely watched by Entropic Immortals as Immortal candidates, and the Immortals would fight any outsider incursion when it's this easily noticed.
that's the sort of idea that I was trying to get at.
Out of curiosity, do you tie the d'Ambrevilles and the Land of Gray Mists to Ravenloft in your campaign at all?
Doh! I forgot about that part. Yes, Etienne tapped into Arik's prison to form his revenge magic, and this is where Arik first got the idea to torture mortals (and their undead rulers) into submission instead of having worshippers. IIRC (not a good track record in this thread), Etienne's revenge magic predates Ravonloft, and the Palace of the Silver Princess.
IIRC (not a good track record in this thread), Etienne's revenge magic predates Ravonloft, and the Palace of the Silver Princess.
Yeah, it precedes Ravenloft (and has been said to be the inspiration for I6, actually, in a couple of places- at least secondhand.) I'm not sure about Palace of the Silver Princess- offhand, I'm going to say that module came first, publication-wise.
I like the tie between the revenge-magic and the inspiration of Arik.
I use a more sinister version of the d'Ambrevilles than appear in later products (Gaz3 and post-Gaz3), so I can get behind anything that ties them to the darker powers.
