How, exactly, do a Thri-Kreen's natural attacks work, both on their own, and in conjunction with weapons?
Do you get all four claw attacks each round at your normal BAB, with the bite attack as a secodary attack at -5?
If you use one weapon in one set of hands, do you then get two other claw attacks at normal attack bonus, two at -5 as secondaries, or just one (bite or claw) at -5 as a secondary?
And, to further complicate the issue, how do the Multiattack and Multiweapon fighting feats alter things?
Sorry for the fairly broad quesitons that I should probably already know the answers to, but it's been awhile since I've played D&D, and have never played a monstrous race with multiple natural attacks and such, so I'm a bit in the dark on all this.
PigLick
Do you get all four claw attacks each round at your normal BAB, with the bite attack as a secodary attack at -5?
Yes.
If you use one weapon in one set of hands, do you then get two other claw attacks at normal attack bonus, two at -5 as secondaries, or just one (bite or claw) at -5 as a secondary?
The latter, just one claw or bit as a secondary.
And, to further complicate the issue, how do the Multiattack and Multiweapon fighting feats alter things?
Multiattack merely reduces the penalty to the secondary attack you make from -5 to -2. Multiweapon fighting allows you to fight with multiple weapons without penalty. I would assume that it would allow you to use unarmed attacks and armed one interchangably, but you might technically need Improved Unarmed Strike to do that. I would ask about that one the Equipment and Combat boards.
How do standard attack actions and full attack actions factor into this? Do I have to take a full attack to get all four claws plus bite?
If so, do I only get one claw attack on a standard attack, or claw plus bite, or something else?
Also, what about increased number of attacks from increasing BAB? I assume you only get one extra attack per +5, and not an entire set of extra attacks?
Thanks again, I'm trying to research stuff myself, but it's been so long since I used my D&D books it's hard to even know where to look, especially on an issue like this that I've never dealt with before.
PigLick
Ok, thanks for the answers, but now I have a couple more, hehe.
How do standard attack actions and full attack actions factor into this? Do I have to take a full attack to get all four claws plus bite?
You only get one attack in a standard attack action, unless you have a feat or special ability that specifically states otherwise.
If so, do I only get one claw attack on a standard attack, or claw plus bite, or something else?
Only one attack, period.
Also, what about increased number of attacks from increasing BAB? I assume you only get one extra attack per +5, and not an entire set of extra attacks?
Your increased number of attacks from going up in level do not ever allow you to gain more attacks to your natural attack routine. If you have multiweapon fighting you gain extra attacks, but with your primary weapon only. Improved Multiweapon Fighting (if there is such a thing) would allow you to get a second attack with each of your secondary weapons, but there is no way to my knowledge ever gain any extra secondary attacks (refering to the extra claw or bite at -5).
(There are Improved Multiweapon and Greater Multiweapon Fighting feats, by the way, in Savage Species).
PigLick
Have a look at the FAQ (search "natural attack"). It covers this question in detail.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv12202006a.zip
Phantom
Kreen can also swap out the ranger weapon multi attack for a natural weapons multi-attack
If your'e trying to get them best results for using two different dual ended weapons at the same time, such as two githka's, then take the weapon mutliattack feats, ambidexterity, focus, wpn specialization and improved critical
If your building a natural weapon fighter, then take ambidexterity, natural weapon multiattacks, improved unarmed attacks
for ranged attack, just get proficiency, focus/finess, wpn specialization, improved critical
for a kreens bite attack their is a feat that gives them more poisonous attacks with their bite
PrC's such as savage, tik tik, and/or some kinda sniper/archer PrC class that give specials using any thrown wepons will enhance the usefullness of a kreens thrown weapons
*note - the kreen weapons are always considered as exotic weapons when getting profiecent with one
Name: Chit Chat, Race: Thri-Kreen, Class: Fighter 2, Gladiator 2, Ranger 2, Savage 1, Tik Tik 1...
Wielding a manufactured weapon doesn’t prevent a creature from using all its natural weaponry, provided that the creature is using the full attack action and the additional natural weapons are free.
The example lizardfolk can’t make a claw attack with the “hand” that holds its weapon, although it does get to attack with the weapon itself. But, if it’s using the full attack action, it can use its other claw as a natural secondary attack (–5 to attack rolls, half Strength bonus), and can also bite as a natural secondary attack. In effect, the lizardfolk is using its normal full attack routine with the manufactured weapon attack substituted for one claw attack.
So a thri-kreen with 2 swords would get a primary sword attack, an extra attack from the off hand sword (TWF/multweapon), 2 claws (secondary), and a bite (secondary).
However, the above is assuming that the Athas.org listing (page 19)of thri-kreen is incorrect when it applies the MM rules on mixing manufactured weapons with natural weapons. If athas.org is making a change. Then Ruhl-Than Sage is correct on granting only 1 secondary attack.
but there is no way to my knowledge ever gain any extra secondary attacks (refering to the extra claw or bite at -5).
This is still true. You cannot gain additional secondary attacks. I did not realize that you could make weapons a part of your natural attack routine and in fact remember reading rules that seemed to strictly prohibit that. I guess I was mistaken about that.
This is still true. You cannot gain additional secondary attacks. I did not realize that you could make weapons a part of your natural attack routine and in fact remember reading rules that seemed to strictly prohibit that. I guess I was mistaken about that.
Actually, *I* remember reading that as well, which is why about a I spent a good 30 minutes (while responding to the other thri-kreen weapons thread) reading through various books, trying to figure out what was the "real" answer. I hadn't seen the FAQ at that point (which is pretty definitive), but I did at least extrapolate from the thri-kreen and Xill monster entries that all the natural attacks that remained became secondary attacks.
Thri-Kreen Monk 16 - "15 attacks" ooooouch!
If I'm missing the sarcasm then ignore this, but otherwise you're completely wrong. :P A monk's unarmed attack(s) specifically cannot be used as off-hand attacks (says so right in the monk class features), so that'd be 5 monk attacks (with flurry of blows) + 1 bite + 3 claws = 9 attacks. If you took multiweapon fighting and improved multiweapon fighting you could add 3 more attacks to that, replacing each claw with 2 off-hand weapon attacks, and at 21st they could take Greater Multiweapon Fighting to up that to 15 total attacks, but that's 'bout it. Of course, a 16th-level thri-kreen fighter could have 14 attacks the same way, so even that's not all that impressive when you really think about it.
There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.
The question is even if a Thri-Kreen monk (terribly out of flavour, but that is another thing) could even make attacks with his "secondary" claws or his bite.
Hrm that's a good point, although technically speaking there's a difference between a "secondary (natural) attack" and an "off-hand attack" - as was discussed in a different-yet-directly-related thread, you can combine off-hand attacks with main hand attacks and natural weapons in a variety of ways, with different to-hit modifiers and rules depending on what combination you use, but in some ways they count separately when you're figuring everything out. So you may be right in that you couldn't use Multiweapon Fighting plus monk attacks, but you could definitely make your monk attacks plus all of your natural attacks as "secondary natural attacks" without having to make any questionable rules calls.
If I'm missing the sarcasm then ignore this, but otherwise you're completely wrong. :P A monk's unarmed attack(s) specifically cannot be used as off-hand attacks (says so right in the monk class features), so that'd be 5 monk attacks (with flurry of blows) + 1 bite + 3 claws = 9 attacks. If you took multiweapon fighting and improved multiweapon fighting you could add 3 more attacks to that, replacing each claw with 2 off-hand weapon attacks, and at 21st they could take Greater Multiweapon Fighting to up that to 15 total attacks, but that's 'bout it. Of course, a 16th-level thri-kreen fighter could have 14 attacks the same way, so even that's not all that impressive when you really think about it.
Actually since a monk can use almost any body part (elbow, foot, knee etc.) for her unarmed strikes, her secondary attacks could consist of 4 claws +1 bite.
Actually since a monk can use almost any body part (elbow, foot, knee etc.) for her unarmed strikes, her secondary attacks could consist of 4 claws +1 bite.
Good point - although that still only gets us to 10 or so attacks.
Actually since a monk can use almost any body part (elbow, foot, knee etc.) for her unarmed strikes, her secondary attacks could consist of 4 claws +1 bite.
A flurry of ... belly slaps?
A flurry of ... belly slaps?
Probably not, however a flurry of kicks, elbow/knee smashes and perhaps throw in a head butt or two. But with there natural armor, belly slaps hmm... I guess that depends on the DM. ;)