| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1taeldrin_laesrashJan 05, 2007 8:49:49 | Did the aformentioned war ever come to a close? I don't have the associated modules, so I can't figure it out. If it did, how did it conclude? Thanks. |
| #2nightdruidJan 05, 2007 10:44:12 | There is not much detail about the war itself or how it concluded. The sources of information I know about it are: * At the end of Heart of the Enemy, its possible for the elves to get ahold of the maruader, and use it to force the scro to cease their hostility. * In War Captain's Compendium, some sidebars assume the scro have been defeated, but some captains fight on in their own fashion (aka stealing small ships and go pirate). * Dragon Annual 1 article detailing the scro offers the best information, indicating that the war is very much a sphere-by-sphere thing. The usual scenario is a scro fleet shows up, battles it out with the elves, and the action dies down after a year or two. I'm not sure if the whole war had ended in that article or not (I don't think so; it was designed primarially to make the scro great foes for the PCs). Overall, the official material seemed to indicate that the scro lost the war but their homeworld remains hidden and they're rebuilding. |
| #3zombiegleemaxJan 05, 2007 17:45:55 | I think II Unhuman War ended and elves won it. Scro are rebuilding, maybe in some distant sphere... or in Borka, if you prefer! Maybe some legendary scro admiral could try to conquer the Spelljammer itself and start with the mighty ship a III Unhuman War... |
| #4bigmacJan 07, 2007 0:27:59 | There is not much detail about the war itself or how it concluded. Given that the Spelljammer Campaign Setting is intended for RPGs, I'd say that the result of the war should be one that creates oportunity for role playing adventures. * At the end of Heart of the Enemy, its possible for the elves to get ahold of the maruader, and use it to force the scro to cease their hostility. That might cripple that crystal sphere, but the war might continue elsewhere for some time. I'm not sure if it is an urban myth but I heard there was a Japanese soldier left on an island who didn't know that WWII was over and contined to be at war with the USA. More recently in Iraq, we have seen the Allies declare a victory (by toppling a statue) and the enemy forces contine to fight. The scro could easily switch over to gurrilla warfare after they are "beaten". * In War Captain's Compendium, some sidebars assume the scro have been defeated, but some captains fight on in their own fashion (aka stealing small ships and go pirate). I like that. And if you use some of the concepts in the Star Wars novels, you could have individual scro admirals in some crystal spheres holding their forces together, but scro captains in other crystal spheres abandoning the war to become pirates. You could even have scro on scro battles as admirals wanting to regroup try to defeat pirate captains who want to improve their own lifestyle. * Dragon Annual 1 article detailing the scro offers the best information, indicating that the war is very much a sphere-by-sphere thing. The usual scenario is a scro fleet shows up, battles it out with the elves, and the action dies down after a year or two. I'm not sure if the whole war had ended in that article or not (I don't think so; it was designed primarially to make the scro great foes for the PCs). This sounds like the best option for a DM, because the speed of spelljammer commerce, should make wars roll across the spheres fairly slowly. Even if you took out the scro homeworld it might be 8 years before the news got to the rest of the scro. They could easily assume that communication likes were disrupted and fight on while waiting for reinforcments that were never going to come. Overall, the official material seemed to indicate that the scro lost the war but their homeworld remains hidden and they're rebuilding. Wars seem more friendly towards battlegames than role playing. I think most campaign settings are set x years after a war rather than in the middle of one. I think II Unhuman War ended and elves won it. The scro should be rebuilding in small pockets everywhere. Maybe some legendary scro admiral could try to conquer the Spelljammer itself and start with the mighty ship a III Unhuman War... I'm not sure if that would be a good idea. However, it might be a good idea for them to try to get The Spelljammer. It would give you an excuse to reuse the Legend of The Spelljammer boxed set. (I personally do not think that The Spelljammer would allow itself to be used on either side of a war. However, it could be stuck in the middle of a big battle and forced to defend itself from would be hijackers.) |
| #5zombiegleemaxJan 07, 2007 3:28:31 | I just readed the Dragon annual 1 issue. Interesting, very interesting, about Scro. I liked it. I remember some canon material about a human-illithid alliance in the I Unhuman War. Can someone tell me the source? I'm amoused that the Scro issue tells about a Scro admiral attempting to gain control of the mighty Spelljammer, as I was suggesting before! |
| #6taeldrin_laesrashJan 07, 2007 18:08:26 | Thanks for the info. Makes for a lot of interesting possibilities, some of which I'll probably use for my campaign.Wars seem more friendly towards battlegames than role playing. I think most campaign settings are set x years after a war rather than in the middle of one. A campaign in a war is possible. One doesn't just have to fight the battles. There's stuff like the politics, smuggling, spying, or even finding refugees. |
| #7jaidJan 07, 2007 19:00:35 | I just readed the Dragon annual 1 issue. Interesting, very interesting, about Scro. I liked it. if i'm not mistaken, that would be the octopus ship descriptive text you're thinking of. |
| #8zombiegleemaxJan 08, 2007 1:00:03 | if i'm not mistaken, that would be the octopus ship descriptive text you're thinking of. Yes! You're right! I'm wondering why the Scro article about Unhuman Wars don't tells anythink about this strange alliance. Also, I wonder why humans and illithid went together! Whas it a generic human illithid alliance, or, maybe, a X pit - Illithid alliance? |
| #9jaidJan 08, 2007 12:21:09 | Yes! You're right! the tenth pit wouldn't ally with illithid. that would be kinda like illithid forming an alliance with gith. the text indicates a group of neutral humans and illithid... i assume it was just some group that probably got ticked off when their convoys were regularly raided (probably the orcs etc were responsible for more, but then again the IEN isn't exactly courteous and respectful to other races either... i would suspect the illithid and humans in question were likely just localised groups, personally, since there aren't an awful lot of these ships). |
| #10tinselJan 10, 2007 23:07:37 | But why join together in the first place? Humans are a food source/population builder to the mindflayers. Ones does not normaly ask ones sandwich for help. Or was it more like the mindflayers used there human stock to build ships and man them as they delt with the Scro and what not. We are talking about penned slaves that have been raised in mind flayer servitude and know no other life. Orders is orders and they do what the mind flayers say or they get snacked on. |
| #11jaidJan 11, 2007 1:14:54 | But why join together in the first place? Humans are a food source/population builder to the mindflayers. Ones does not normaly ask ones sandwich for help. presumably the mind flayers appreciated the human's greater numbers, and the fact that ships crewed by them were expendable in the illithid's opinion. if i had to guess, i would suppose the humans probably did most of the work, while the illithid mainly provided financial backing and designed the ship. while it is true that illithid more or less think of other races as food and slaves, this does not mean they don't recognise that other things are sentient. merely that those other things are not as smart/powerful/cool/etc as mind flayers. as such, i see nothing improbable about the flayers taking some nation they already have decent relations with (probably a trade partner) and working together with that nation to protect both of their interests (ie, guarding merchant convoys). |
| #12zombiegleemaxJan 11, 2007 1:29:19 | But why join together in the first place? Humans are a food source/population builder to the mindflayers. Ones does not normaly ask ones sandwich for help. I think it could be the same relationship between humans and cows: humans think cows are "walking hamburgers", but they also use an ox to pull a chariot and show a general liking for cows. Maybe Illithids rised some human thrall and uset "it" for hard work and, at the age of maybe 30, just eat it, becouse he was starting to be less productive. Of course there may be an Illithid holyday requiring to celebrate eating a teenager brain, but also humans eat a calf now and there, and cows aren't extinguishing. More than an alliance I see it as a relationship between liege and thrall/food. Of course, humans aren't at all better than Illithid in hard-working, but humans do have an high reproduction rate (compared to Illithids, Elves, Dwarves and the like) and what they lack in singular strenght, they have in sheer number. |
| #13jaidJan 11, 2007 12:17:00 | Of course, humans aren't at all better than Illithid in hard-working, but humans do have an high reproduction rate (compared to Illithids, Elves, Dwarves and the like) and what they lack in singular strenght, they have in sheer number. depends how you look at it, imo. while there is nothing preventing an illithid from being a hard worker in terms of physical labor, it is worth noting that most illithid have no interest in hard physical labor (though there are some who specialise in physical combat who presumably would be quite effective at it). having thralls who do all the hard work for you makes it less likely that you will be well suited to physical labor. additionally, it calls it an alliance. slavery is not an alliance. the illithid do other things than merely enslaving every single person they see on sight, you know; if not, then they wouldn't be welcome at any port other than mindflayer ports. in point of fact, we have a canon source which plays out an alliance (short term, admittedly) between flayers, humans, elves, dwarves, beholders, and neogi. |
| #14ravengraygemJan 31, 2007 16:10:44 | I'm not sure if it is an urban myth but I heard there was a Japanese soldier left on an island who didn't know that WWII was over and contined to be at war with the USA. Nope, this isn't an urban myth. They had to find his old commanding officer, get him to go out to this island, and tell the soldier in person that the war was over. |
| #15XorialJan 31, 2007 22:35:36 | When I was stationed on Guam in the late 80s, we were told about the last Japanese soldier on the island. He didn't turn himself in until 1972, I think. He only did then because he saw all the American Flags on the island for so long that he was pretty sure that Japan had lost the war. |
| #16lord_karsusFeb 12, 2007 22:24:27 | -It's a pretty amazing story. I remember seeing a show about him on the History Channel. |
| #17theyeti1775Feb 28, 2007 11:52:24 | Nope, this isn't an urban myth. They had to find his old commanding officer, get him to go out to this island, and tell the soldier in person that the war was over. When I was stationed on Guam in the late 80s, we were told about the last Japanese soldier on the island. He didn't turn himself in until 1972, I think. He only did then because he saw all the American Flags on the island for so long that he was pretty sure that Japan had lost the war. He came out of hiding, and still would not surrender until his old C.O. told him the war was over. |
| #18zombiegleemaxMar 11, 2007 11:34:51 | seeing as this blog is turning into a n interest in the japenese soldier , http://ns.gov.gu/scrollapplet/sergeant.html little more about him . i don't think the scro lost myself , but then would slowly regroup but it would take a long time to become a threat again . unless they got their hands on the spelljammer itself ....... |
| #19jaidMar 11, 2007 21:00:46 | seeing as this blog is turning into a n interest in the japenese soldier , no one becomes powerful by getting their hands on the spelljammer. the spelljammer kicks them in the face and throws them into a deep, dark hole, and doesn't let them come out to play ever again if they try. and if the s'cro are scattered and need to regroup completely and won't be a threat anytime soon, but the EIN is doing fine, i would say that the s'cro lost the war. |
| #20bigmacMar 24, 2007 12:35:40 | no one becomes powerful by getting their hands on the spelljammer. the spelljammer kicks them in the face and throws them into a deep, dark hole, and doesn't let them come out to play ever again if they try. Welllll.... ...that was The Spelljammer that Teldin Moore encountered... ;) ...I'm sure that the new Spelljammer could have an entirely different character. Maybe there isn't a city on its back this time. |
| #21yellowdingoApr 10, 2007 7:13:02 | ...I'm sure that the new Spelljammer could have an entirely different character. Maybe there isn't a city on its back this time. Yeah! Its Called the Starship Warden (a fifty mile long, 25 mile wide, 8.5 mile thick dungeon in space teaming with all manor of humanoid and monster mutation, psionicly evolved races, and whatnot). Finaly you findout where the illithid come from (they come from an overly radiated waterstorage tank 5 mile x 5 mile x 15 mile-jammed snugly up against the reactors- ruled by an overly evolved immortal and psionicly powerful flu virus known as the Empire of Gaal). I believe the phrase is: "Crystal spheres? Oh you mean the warp bubbles left behind every time the Warden jumped through hyperspace." |
| #22redkingApr 11, 2007 10:48:14 | If I recall correctly, the Second Unhuman War never really ends. It scales down, and the Scro are mostly in retreat, but the war might be over in one sphere and still be raging in another. The major effect of the war is that the IEN is damaged to the point that it is no longer the only dominant player in the known spheres. This means the Neogi, Beholders, Illilthids, Clockwork Horrors, or other human and demihumans might fight for dominance or perhaps live in a delicate state of peace for a while. |
| #23tausterApr 12, 2007 5:30:27 | Yeah! Its Called the Starship Warden (a fifty mile long, 25 mile wide, 8.5 mile thick dungeon in space teaming with all manor of humanoid and monster mutation, psionicly evolved races, and whatnot). Finaly you findout where the illithid come from (they come from an overly radiated waterstorage tank 5 mile x 5 mile x 15 mile-jammed snugly up against the reactors- ruled by an overly evolved immortal and psionicly powerful flu virus known as the Empire of Gaal). I don't want to come across rude, but... please don't spam every thread with this starship warden of yours. We have seen your posts, and if somebody feels inclined to answer, (s)he will. "Smuggling" this noncanon/crossover/fanfiction- thingie in every thread won't do anything good, and will only cause bad blood. |
| #24yellowdingoApr 12, 2007 8:27:52 | I don't want to come across rude, but... please don't spam every thread with this starship warden of yours. We have seen your posts, and if somebody feels inclined to answer, (s)he will. "Smuggling" this noncanon/crossover/fanfiction- thingie in every thread won't do anything good, and will only cause bad blood. Warden is not a non canon/crossover/fanfiction thingie. It was created by the Gygax's and TSR and used both as a source of humanoid races now in D&D and fragments of it in assorted setting adventures such as greyhawk and mystara. Heretic! |
| #25nightdruidApr 12, 2007 17:10:19 | Starship Warden? Man, that's older & more obsure than Spelljammer :p Heck, its older than I am :p Sorry, you'll have a heck of a time finding anyone who even knows what that is, much less care. Its a big ship. So what? Sci fi is filled with big ships. Its not particularly remarkable and is little more than a footnote in D&D's very long history. |
| #26tausterApr 13, 2007 3:22:24 | ...I hadn't even heard of it before yellowdingo mentioned it here - which means it must be quite old & obscure. :D Starship Warden? (...) Its a big ship. So what? Sci fi is filled with big ships. (...) Sure, it is, but... I don't see why the spelljamming universe couldn't have more than one legend. Ok, The Spelljammer was created as "THE legend of the spelljamming universe", but I believe having more than one "BIG LEGENDS" (TM) can add to the atmosphere of the game. After all, the known spheres are a friggin' HUGE space, with hundreds of races, each bringing their own myths into the melting pot. Imaging sitting in a bar on bral and overhearing a heated argument on the neighboring table about who has the most awe-inspiring legend! (kind of a "who would win?"- argument :D ), where each participant airs whatever he believes to know about "his" legend, each argument getting more exaggerated and ridiculous, drawing more and more participants into the discussion... until a bar-wide brawl breaks out! :D Having said that, I want to make clear (once again) that I am not "against" crossover postings. I just don't like to see one topic popping up in almost every thread, that's all. @ yellowdingo: Use one thread for the starship warden, collect all information there (a list of references would be great) and wait who responds. |
| #27yellowdingoApr 13, 2007 5:53:39 | ...I hadn't even heard of it before yellowdingo mentioned it here - which means it must be quite old & obscure. :D The relevence of the Warden to the Unhuman wars is that If the Humanoids and Demihuman races began in the ancient history of the D&D universe on the Warden then the Unhuman war is likely a dispute that has its roots in the departure of humanoids and assorted others from the Warden. As far as the history goes, it probably leads back futher than the first unhuman war. The Point is that The Warden isnt a crossover. its a very old canon D&D encounter from early D&D. You are more likely to find the history of every major race tied to that ship in a way the newbies want the spelljammer to be. As to it's relevence to the future of D&D: It's rediscovery in spelljammer space (requiring a major tournament conflict and the survival and escape of the adventurers involved along with perhaps some new "Alien and Humanoid Races") would herald a change in the techlevel of the setting worlds taking them from sail ships (and the current level of magic abuse) to primitive steam/sail vessels with ironclad hulls and steam cannons. |
| #28yellowdingoApr 14, 2007 20:39:32 | Frankly the Second Unhuman War seemed contrived and irrelevent. As though it were rushed in to fill a void that needed conflict without actually having a relevence to the Campaign settings. Where were the Spelljammers dropping like dead flies into the farming districts of Faerun as the result of some huge battle in orbit? Where is the Goblin Slaver running fifty feet off the ground as they approach a Farming village under a cloud of mist? My cleric would have bought up every small helm and given them away to people who could use a flying ship. He had already supplied three to a small merchant company for shares payable to the monastary which took profits from "yes mister pirate, you can have our cargo" to "I own this traderoute". The merchant was thrilled to even have access to clerics on his ships and a deal was struck. Kept a furnace helm to dispose of evil magic items... Once Spelljamming got out there would be a small helm powered vessel in the Garage of every Merchant and Baron. |
| #29jaidApr 15, 2007 13:22:34 | what makes you think the battles would occur on planets, and especially the planets where the other campaign settings are. there are places other than toril in realmspace. the EIN has approximately 0 shipyards on toril, 0 outposts, 0 training academys... heck, all the spelljamming ships under elven control of toril are actually owned by evermeet apparently, and are not directly part of the EIN. and FR is by far the most spelljamming active planet of the three core campaign settings (far more than it should be, in my opinion). krynn has all of two spelljamming ports, and virtually no EIN presence at all on krynn itself (so once again, why would there be a major battle there?) and oerth barely even has ports that will allow spelljammers to dock at, provided those spelljamming ships don't appear to be spelljammers. once again, there are approximately 0 major spelljamming resources held by the elves on oerth itself, so there wouldn't be any battles there either, most likely. more probably, the major battles will take place at shipyards (where whichever side wins will salvage the helms for their own use) outposts (ditto), space stations (once again, expect the winning side to salvage) and so forth... the places where significant victories can be won. the scro wouldn't bother raiding any groundling planets until the EIN is defeated, because that's their first target. and the EIN is not found in any significant amounts on groundling worlds. |
| #30yellowdingoApr 15, 2007 21:53:14 | It is certainly unusual. They have handled this like an interstellar alien showing up on earth and Giving warp travel to a backwater 3rd world nation... ignoring the gloryhounds of the UN Security Council entirely. |