He asked why there is no monk in Dark Sun, what with the lousy access to decent materials and what-not, why wouldn't there be a bad-ass unarmed fighter? Now, I explained that the whole monk flavor doesn't really work for Dark Sun with all their mystical abilities and things (he understood and agreed), but he persisted: why, then, isn't there a non-mystical-type unarmed fighter?
I have been agonizing over creating either a feat-chain, or a new class to represent this non-mystical monk. I think my player has a point, the niche seems to make sense. By mystical, I mean abilities like Diamond Body, Ki Strike, Wholeness of Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, etc. Does anyone have any ideas regarding this? I'd love to see an unarmed Dark Sun specialist, whether its a fighter with a good feat-chain, or a whole new monk-like class.
You may want to allow a couple of "monstrous feats" from the MM to help, though. Improved Natural Armor and Improved Natural Attack, for instance, could be allowed for any race, not just those that already have natural armor/natural attacks. Also, if you don't already consider it valid, let someone use the two-weapon fighting feat chain with unarmed attacks. In fact, let any feat be used with unarmed attacks (where appropriate of course).
That all probably won't hold up over time, as it's more difficult to find ways to enhance unarmed attacks the way you can find magic weapons (rare as those may be on Athas). On the other hand, there are some magic and psionics that do that stuff, so it's not a problem to make new items (along with the ones that already exist) to fill those gaps if necessary.
PigLick
If I have time, I could try and put something together, but right now I'm a little busy.
Finally, with a little tweaking for flavor, the monk could be made with a more psionic touch:
Changes include:
Swap Knowledge (arcana) with Knowledge (psionics).
Still Mind: Now is effective against psionics and effects from the telepath discipline.
Abundant Step: as per psionic dimension door.
Diamond Soul: You gain psionic power resistance instead.
Empty Body: as per psionic etherealness.
Perfect Self: DR 10/psionic instead.
And voila, a psionic monk instead.
Perfect Self: DR 10/psionic instead.
There is no such thing as DR/psionic. It's all "magic"
I do in my DS games.
Seems to work fine.
There is no such thing as DR/psionic. It's all "magic"
In a game where psionics is supposed to be one of the dominant forces, it sounds better. Even if it effectively is the same thing as magic.
In a game where psionics is supposed to be one of the dominant forces, it sounds better. Even if it effectively is the same thing as magic.
But is does not matter if is sounds better really - an ability listed as DR #/psionic is just wrong. What is the difference between a psionic resistance bonus and a magical resistance bonus? Or between a psionic enhancement bonus and a magical enhancement bonus? Absolutely nothing (aside from the obvious). They function in the same manner.
I see psionists as generally pursuing mental and physical perfection for the sake of the power it affords. By contrast monks seek mental and/or physical perfection simply for the sake of their ideals, and for them those cool powers just happen to be an occasionally useful byproduct of their pursuit.
A monk's lack of need to spend PSPs could be explained by the idea that monks have become so focused on their particular ascetic path that the few psionic abilities it does allow have become nearly effortless. But on the other hand monks are so narrowly focused that they can never learn many of the other tricks that regular psionists know, at least without turning from their path in order to multiclass.
Remove most of the weapon proficiencies (just grant simple weapons and a few exotic "monk" weapons) and all of the armor ones, grant improved unarmed strike and wisdom bonus to AC at 1st level. Change skill list to include Tumble, Balance, Concentration, and maybe a few others.
But is does not matter if is sounds better really - an ability listed as DR #/psionic is just wrong.
Just wrong, you say. I guess I better watch out for the WotC cops then.
What is the difference between a psionic resistance bonus and a magical resistance bonus? Or between a psionic enhancement bonus and a magical enhancement bonus? Absolutely nothing (aside from the obvious). They function in the same manner.
Unless you choose to use the "Psionics are different" campaign model. Then there are diferences.
As I prefaced my suggestions, they are just for flavour. You can use the monk class as it is now and just say that the abilities are psionic in nature rather than mystical. I just love it when people tell I'm wrong for suggesting something. I'm beginning to see why these boards have such a bad rep.
Just wrong, you say. I guess I better watch out for the WotC cops then.
Oh, they are real. But, they don't pay much attention to the DS boards. And they don't care what you do in your own campaign.
Unless you choose to use the "Psionics are different" campaign model. Then there are diferences.
Quite right. Or, any similar model that makes a distinction.
As I prefaced my suggestions, they are just for flavour. You can use the monk class as it is now and just say that the abilities are psionic in nature rather than mystical. I just love it when people tell I'm wrong for suggesting something. I'm beginning to see why these boards have such a bad rep.
I find it especially odd that Kal would make this comment, though I do believe he meant it in a more humorous and less authoritative way, then you might have taken it.
I am just joking, well mostly - I could care less what people call it really. I use the term "awakened" for all psionic items in my game - the effects are all the same, but I though using the word "enchanted" when it came to terms of psionic items was just plain silly.
Sage knows me too well - I do sometimes make comments that swing to the far side of an issue or argument, but to see what kind of stuff I can shake out - blast you, you bearded tall halfling tree-hugger!!!
:D
Just let the Monk in. 2nd ed referenced to the monks of Nibenay I think and there are a few monasteries around as well.
Not that this is a specific argument against letting the monk in as is, but just because there are monks in the setting doesn't mean there are "monks" in the setting. I'm pretty sure that the monks in Nibenay and in other scattered monasteries are monks in the non-shaolin sense which live an acestic regimented lifestyle in accordance with a strong philosphoical or religious belief system. Those that had character class levels would be most likely to be clerics or psions.
Not that this is a specific argument against letting the monk in as is, but just because there are monks in the setting doesn't mean there are "monks" in the setting. I'm pretty sure that the monks in Nibenay and in other scattered monasteries are monks in the non-shaolin sense which live an acestic regimented lifestyle in accordance with a strong philosphoical or religious belief system. Those that had character class levels would be most likely to be clerics or psions.
I've been trying REALLLLY hard not to throw this suggestion in, just because most D&Ders would most likely start screaming for blood, but...
d20 Modern Base Classes would make all this make so much more sense!!!
Can I take 20 on my Hide check?
Can I take 20 on my Hide check?
Do you ask the mob with pitchforks? They reply "Rabble, rabble, rabble, rabble!"
Any further responses are still welcome, however, so suggest away!
Class Skills
Remove Swim, replace Knowledge: Arcana with Knowledge: Psionics.
Still Mind (Ex)
A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against psionics and effects from the telepath discipline.
Abundant Step (Su)
At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip psionically between spaces, as if using the power Dimension Door, Psionic, once per day. Her manifester level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down).
Diamond Soul (Ex)
At 13th level, a monk gains power resistance equal to her current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a power, a manifester must get a result on a manifester level check (1d20 + manifester level) that equals or exceeds the monk’s power resistance.
Empty Body (Su)
At 19th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per monk level per day, as though using the power Etherealness, Psionic. She may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed her monk level.
Aside from that, I don't think the Monk's weapon proficiency list works for an Athasian Monk. Any suggestions?
Psionic monks are covered by athas.org. elemental monks my own little creation.
i have no para elemental monks made up yet but some day i will.
i also have a few combinations with preservers and templars using the monk style of life and unarmed combat.
all elemental monks have abilities that allow them to harm creatures normally immune to normal damage by enchanting their flesh.
I may borrow some ideas from the XPH to replace 'em.
unless you wanna rework the KI system and create a sort of streetfighter/saiyan type of monk.
yes but normal attacks won't hurt alot of stuff on athas. so a monk needs a way to hurt these creatures that require some sort of +1 enhancement/steel/ magic/psionic/elemental. so a normal monk who fights unarmed with no paranormal/metal bonus won't last long.
unless you wanna rework the KI system and create a sort of streetfighter/saiyan type of monk.
Damage reduction numbers aren't all that. They're usually low enough to get through with normal weapons via power attack or spells and psionics. Instead of the monk power that lets them get through adamantine on Athas it could be metal.
It makes sense, young monks just need to learn the base skills before they can become more "Focused", this taking the Pstc Class Psionic Monk would make sense.
Just let the Monk in. 2nd ed referenced to the monks of Nibenay I think and there are a few monasteries around as well.
After doing a minor amount of research, I've come up with this:
There are two monastic traditions in Nibenay: The Exalted Path (males) and Serene Bliss (females). The Serene Bliss monastery is little more than a training ground for prospective Templars, while the Exalted Path sounds very Zen in nature, and could be construed as very "shaolin", after all Nibenay is supposedly based on ancient Chinese culture (according to Wikipedia, at least).
That said, monk is a title or a profession, it need not be a class if you don't want to.
Brax has mentioned that Nibenay is more Cambodian or Thai in influence, and I tend to agree.
That said, monk is a title or a profession, it need not be a class if you don't want to.
I can see that. The two NPC names I saw in Marauders of Nibenay while I was skimming through did sound a little more Vienamese/Thai than Chinese.
Yes, but I want it! :P
I can see that. The two NPC names I saw in Marauders of Nibenay while I was skimming through did sound a little more Vienamese/Thai than Chinese.
Yes, but I want it! :P
If you want it: take it. There is always the psywar to psionic monk PrC route that works well. or... Go fighter or gladiator and style it up with bonus feats. (I replace the gladiators exotic weapon bonus feat with a generic bonus feat for more options)