Do you, as GMs, have your magic-using players make a Bluff check to hide their casting when in front of NPCs that would be affected, interaction-wise, by their casting? Anytime they are somewhere they can be observed, I would have a player make this roll, as I would think that any average soul would be uncomfortable, if not terrifed, of any spellcaster. If the caster fails his check, allowing someone to recognize he is casting, the disposition of all in range would drop by one level. Be recognized casting enough times or only once in front of the wrong group and you could have a mob on your hands.
Has anyone ever created a table for something like this? I have some thoughts for one, but if someone already has one I'd be interested in seeing it for comparing to my thoughts. Something like this:
Something to note about all of this: In several years of gameplay, Bluff checks, although constantly made, seldom make much of a difference during the game. Every player that's ever run a wizard has always maxed out their Bluff skill, and I normally start them at 4th level or so, so overall the odds of a commoner seeing through their Bluff is pretty low. Additionally, 9/10 times when they have to cast a spell it's either done at a time and place where they are completely out of sight (and hearing) of anyone who would care - early-morning Mage Armor spells and the like, cast while trekking through the wilderness or while sitting in their room at a local inn - or else they're cast in combat, where odds are that they've got balls of fire or glowing magic missiles shooting from their fingertips...the sort of things you can't really explain away as "heat-related atmospheric phenomena." Even during that 1 out of 10 times when they've got to cast a spell in the middle of a crowded street, lets say, odds are the spell still falls into the "completely obvious" category or else the PCs are able to stand in a dark corner or behind a friend, gain some Bluff bonuses, and completely out-Bluff any potential onlookers. My point is, in 2 or so years of running a DS game, there's only been 1, maybe 2 times that a badly-rolled Bluff check has actually made any sort of difference; for the most part, we make the rolls because it's the "right thing to do" and not because it has any real effect on the game. As for successful Bluff checks, of those that mattered, most of them only resulted in the Bad Guy that just got hit with XYZ Spell not knowing which of his opponents it was that cast it...which, when there's an enraged half-giant or mul gladiator charging you, a psion explosively decompressing your buddies, and a sneaky guy with a bow shooting at you, isn't all that important a matter anyway.
I don't think Psionics for example should be able to penetrate an antimagic shell which blocks out magic spells and supernatural effects like breath weapons and even suppresses damage reduction.
My 2 cp.
Ruhl-Than Sage came up with a good explanation in that magic trumps psionics bu not the other way around in order validate Rajaat's reason for creating magic in the first place. I use a variation of this in that psionics has a diminished (per XPH) effect on magic but magic can fully effect psionics.
I figured it related to Rajaat's societal- and self-imposed world-view and sense of self: He felt as if he had no place in the world and wasn't even truly happy in his "own little world," but at the same time had the universal need for acceptance that all of "humankind" has. With psionics, it's all about the Will and the Way, which is a very self-centered, introverted thing - Rajaat became good at it because it fit into his "outsider" status, but at the same time his emotional duality meant that it was never enough for him; although it helped alleviate the "I think of myself as worthless" thoughts, it was too personal to meet his needs for acceptance amongst others. With magic, the power comes from without but is focused at the personal level - just like social acceptance and political power comes from others but is "used" by an individual. For Rajaat, it was a metaphorical way of "interacting with the outside world" and eventually, once he became a teacher, even led to acceptance, prestige and eventually power. But in the end - at least according to his own world-view - it still all came back to the fact that, no matter what he learned or created, he would always be this hideous deformity that was (to him) because of the actions of others, and thus led him to the Cleansing Wars.
...but then again I'm known for thinking way too deeply about...stuff. :P
I don't think Psionics for example should be able to penetrate an antimagic shell which blocks out magic spells and supernatural effects like breath weapons and even suppresses damage reduction.
Antimagic shell and Null Psionics Field are two that I allow to work equally well both against spells and psionics, pretty much for those reasons. Other spells and psionics, like Spell Immunity or Catapsi, I keep specific to their arenas - pretty much any spell or power that is obviously designed to interfere with only spells or powers, and which really can't be interpreted as possibly interfering with supernatural abilities as well, I tend to leave alone. It's not an all-or-nothing thing, but in general that's what I use to determine the transparency of a particular spell or power.
...but then again I'm known for thinking way too deeply about...stuff. :P
A bit involved, but 's ok. I generally have fun wrapping my brain around this kind of speculation about deeper in-game metaphysical or philosopical causes of things.
Ruhl-Than Sage came up with a good explanation in that magic trumps psionics but not the other way around in order validate Rajaat's reasons for creating magic in the first place. I use a variation of this in that psionics has a diminished effect (per XPH) on magic but magic can fully effect psionics.
Yeah, something like I was thinking. Something like that would have to be the case in order to make it attractive. I was thinking that neither could affect the other, but your diminished effect may be the way to go, too.
Something to note about all of this: In several years of gameplay, Bluff checks, although constantly made, seldom make much of a difference during the game.
As far as preservers are concerned, I'm fine with this. If they put the skill points into the skill, I expect them to succeed most of the time. Like anything else, though, there should be to off-chance of failure once in a while.
Yeah, something like I was thinking. Something like that would have to be the case in order to make it attractive. I was thinking that neither could affect the other, but your diminished effect may be the way to go, too.
I'm honestly not a huge fan of the DS default of "psionics are different". Diminished effect seems the more balanced way to go IMO.
As far as preservers are concerned, I'm fine with this. If they put the skill points into the skill, I expect them to succeed most of the time. Like anything else, though, there should be to off-chance of failure once in a while.
*Nod* I pretty much made this statement as an indirect way of pointing out that a complicated Bluff modifiers chart really isn't necessary, as the existing (athas.org) system works well enough and is straight forward enough that, when combined with my gaming experience of "it really doesn't matter all that much" it'd probably be more trouble than it's worth. Rather than going with a huge chart of definitive modifiers for different spellcasting modifiers, just go with pre-existing modifiers - those from DS3, as well as other "related" 3.5e modifiers such as the various Spot and Listen modifiers, modifiers for Cover and Concealment, etc. (all of which are appropriate to most casting situations) - and you should be good to go.
I run psionics different b/c I like the division of the classes. No one in my campaign plays a defiler. The only player with any magic levels is also a psion of equal level. No one has ever played a defiler or a dwarf. Oh well,
Not directly related to mouthymerc's original post, but your statement 'bout defilers made me think of the "accidental defiling" rule I use in my games that others' may find interesting.
Rather than using the Terrain Modifiers rule from DS3.5, I instead have a set of Spellcraft DC's that vary with terrain: