Athasian Vestiges? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Athasian Vestiges?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 31, 2007 7:46:24 Is it possible there're Vestiges on Athas for binders to pact with? Would pact magic even fit on Athas? We know Vestiges aren't gods, just utterly out of reach except with binder magic, so they don't violate the essential rule that Athas be deity-free. Perhaps Vestiges are non-humans who escaped into Vestige-status during the Cleansing Wars? 15 Vestiges perhaps? High priests, arch-druids, and wizards of both preserving and defiling slants, who used psionic enchantments to preserve themselves, and via themselves, their racial heritage, from ultimate genocide?

--what does everyone think? NB
#2
fnordbear
Jan 31, 2007 9:40:53 I think Vestiages would be an interesting addition to Athas, but more as a "New Magic" so to speak rather than something that has been around for awhile.

I think though for it to fit a set of Athasian vestiges would need to be made. Rajaat obviously would be one (probably a high level one at that) as would be any of the champions/sorceror monarchs who are dead in your current timeline.

A neat variant rule could be to allow the Binding feats and replace the normal selection of vestiages with some specific to living sorceror monarchs to represent someone who has been granted a measure of power by that monarch without be a templar.

Some ideas for athasian vestiges:

Rajaat - abilities releated to defiling and possibly granting bonuses for multiclass casters

Llod(from the video game) - Abilities related to travel and teleporting

Borys(post mortem of course) - Perhaps an ability to gain something from sacrificing part of your life force? (con)

Rhan Thes-onel - Perhaps some limited ability to life shape (maybe use incarnum?)

Mareet - Psi-like powers granted?

Too'lane - perhaps druidic related abilities?

Irikos - I would say he granted martial abilities, perhaps proficiency with swords.

Rkard - I would have him grant or enhance natural dwarven abilities and possibly do extra damage when fighting defiliers

Ka'Cha - Diplomacy bonues with Thrikreen and maybe some kreen-like abilities (bonus to jump and survival maybe?)

Anyway just some ideas. The easy way to come up with them would be look at the Athasian timeline, pick a name of someone who did soemthing important. Come up with a few abilities that might logically be associated with their vestige, and the profit.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 31, 2007 10:14:30 Eh, I prefer to keep pact magic ancient, thank you very much! One of the central themes of Athas is that the world fell from a paradisical state into savage, dying barbarism. Everything is but a faded shadow of the glories of the faded past. This suggests that magical and psionic innovation are things of the past, no longer really practiced. Only the sorcerer-kings have the free time required to invent whole new magical disciplines. Everyone else is too busy surviving to re-invent the wheel.

--ergo, my notion of pact magic being ancient NB
#4
brun01
Jan 31, 2007 10:36:58
who used psionic enchantments to preserve themselves, and via themselves, their racial heritage, from ultimate genocide?

You mean like, other than inserting their consciousness into huge balls of obsidian and sealing off their domains? :P
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 31, 2007 10:40:34
You mean like, other than inserting their consciousness into huge balls of obsidian and sealing off their domains? :P

Yes, exactly. Not everyone could've reached the same conclusions. Not everyone had the benefit of extreme geographical distance to save their asses. Some occult researchers must've grown desperate, trying to save their races and racial heritages.

--in a world with high levels of magic and abundant psionics, many options exist NB
#6
Oninotaki
Jan 31, 2007 12:16:00 I would like to add that I really like the idea of Tithian being a level 1 vestige.

I would also like to add that I was disappointed to see that vestiges stop at level 8 instead of level 9 like wizards who's spell progression they were obviously mimicing. I have sence decided that in my campaign there will be level 9 vestiges witch will most likely be departed sorceror-monarchs and an elite vestige or two 1 of which will most certainly be Rajaat.

Oh and I also see it as an ancient tradition that goes all the way back to the blue age, and the favored class of the Nikaal.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jan 31, 2007 12:27:08 One problem: Wasn't magic so rare in the Blue Age it almost didn't exist? I mean, yeah, there was abundant lifeshaping, but other than that, arcane magic didn't exist, divine magic was rarer than hen's teeth, and psionics wasn't even a possibility. How can you justify planar pactbinding magic showing up, when regular magic was so rare as to be unbelievable?

--not meaning to be insulting, but I AM curious as all get out NB
#8
Sysane
Jan 31, 2007 12:41:16
One problem: Wasn't magic so rare in the Blue Age it almost didn't exist? I mean, yeah, there was abundant lifeshaping, but other than that, arcane magic didn't exist, divine magic was rarer than hen's teeth, and psionics wasn't even a possibility. How can you justify planar pactbinding magic showing up, when regular magic was so rare as to be unbelievable?

--not meaning to be insulting, but I AM curious as all get out NB

Elemental magic wasn't necessarily rare in the Blue Age. It could be that pact magic lead the way for elemental magic.
#9
bill_lumberg
Jan 31, 2007 15:16:37 Kalak was made into a vestige on the thread Lets Make some New Vestiges.

I love binders and think that they are the only new class that really stands out from the others. However, I don't think they fit the flavor of Athas. This is just my opinion. I think that the Gray would absorb most souls instaed of letting them become vestiges. The few sould strong enough to escape the Gray are usually drained to the point of becoming undead.
#10
Oninotaki
Jan 31, 2007 16:43:10
Kalak was made into a vestige on the thread Lets Make some New Vestiges.

I love binders and think that they are the only new class that really stands out from the others. However, I don't think they fit the flavor of Athas. This is just my opinion. I think that the Gray would absorb most souls instaed of letting them become vestiges. The few sould strong enough to escape the Gray are usually drained to the point of becoming undead.

Thanks for that link:D
#11
bill_lumberg
Feb 01, 2007 9:44:19
Thanks for that link:D

My pleasure.
#12
zombiegleemax
Feb 01, 2007 16:24:32 It's been awhile since I read the relevant section in the Tome of Magic, and even then it was more of a quick skim. So I'll be the one to say it:

What are vestiges?

From what I recall they are sort of archtypal remnants of people or things that once existed (or maybe didn't necessarily exist), and which certain PCs have formed a power-granting bond with. Is this close to right?
#13
Oninotaki
Feb 03, 2007 13:32:07 I am working on the following Vestiges as they would fit my campaign beautifully. However I would also love to see the communities ideas for them.

Tithian Tool of Rajaat(level 1)
Rajaat the Warbringer(level 2)
Myron Rajaat's Example(level 3)
Atzetuk Sacrificial Son(level 3)
Sacha Curse of the Kobolds(level 4)
Wyan Blight of the Pixies(level 5)
Taraskir the Lion's Shame(level 6)
Windreaver Last King of the Trolls(Level 6)
Korgunard Hope Betrayed(level 8)
Sielba ***** to the Kings(level 8)
Abalach-Re the Warbringers Fool(level 9*)
Oronis The Failure of Hope(level 9*)
Kalak the Fraud King(level 9*)
Kalid-Ma(level 9*)(need a title for)

*I plan on granting access to 9th level vestiges at either 17 or 18th level

I would also love to see some more names dregged up from Athas's past that would make cool vestiges. Remember if they ain't undead then theres a good chance they could be a vestige:D
#14
methvezem
Feb 03, 2007 16:23:46 You could use Gretch or Qwith as possible vestiges. I was to do one for Gretch, but did not find the time yet.
#15
Oninotaki
Feb 03, 2007 17:07:54
You could use Gretch or Qwith as possible vestiges. I was to do one for Gretch, but did not find the time yet.

I thought gretch and qwith were undead in the deadlands
#16
methvezem
Feb 04, 2007 6:17:44
I thought gretch and qwith were undead in the deadlands

My mistake, you are right. Just looked at the timeline and they seem (at least it is officially written for Gretch) effectively to be undead now.

Guess I'll have to find about another cool vestige ;).

About the vestiges you want to create, isn't Tek more appropriate than Atzetuk? And not the other way around?

You could also add Irikos the Sacker of Bodach.
#17
Oninotaki
Feb 04, 2007 12:50:15
About the vestiges you want to create, isn't Tek more appropriate than Atzetuk? And not the other way around?

You could also add Irikos the Sacker of Bodach.

In my campaign Tek spirit teaches and molds Atzetuk untill his body is powerful enougn to hold the essence of Tek, who then possess the body of his "son" . Atzetuk essence is cast out of the body and then becomes a vestige.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2007 7:46:24	Is it possible there're Vestiges on Athas for binders to pact with? Would pact magic even fit on Athas? We know Vestiges aren't gods, just utterly out of reach except with binder magic, so they don't violate the essential rule that Athas be deity-free. Perhaps Vestiges are non-humans who escaped into Vestige-status during the Cleansing Wars? 15 Vestiges perhaps? High priests, arch-druids, and wizards of both preserving and defiling slants, who used psionic enchantments to preserve themselves, and via themselves, their racial heritage, from ultimate genocide? --what does everyone think? NB
#2 fnordbear Jan 31, 2007 9:40:53	I think Vestiages would be an interesting addition to Athas, but more as a "New Magic" so to speak rather than something that has been around for awhile. I think though for it to fit a set of Athasian vestiges would need to be made. Rajaat obviously would be one (probably a high level one at that) as would be any of the champions/sorceror monarchs who are dead in your current timeline. A neat variant rule could be to allow the Binding feats and replace the normal selection of vestiages with some specific to living sorceror monarchs to represent someone who has been granted a measure of power by that monarch without be a templar. Some ideas for athasian vestiges: Rajaat - abilities releated to defiling and possibly granting bonuses for multiclass casters Llod(from the video game) - Abilities related to travel and teleporting Borys(post mortem of course) - Perhaps an ability to gain something from sacrificing part of your life force? (con) Rhan Thes-onel - Perhaps some limited ability to life shape (maybe use incarnum?) Mareet - Psi-like powers granted? Too'lane - perhaps druidic related abilities? Irikos - I would say he granted martial abilities, perhaps proficiency with swords. Rkard - I would have him grant or enhance natural dwarven abilities and possibly do extra damage when fighting defiliers Ka'Cha - Diplomacy bonues with Thrikreen and maybe some kreen-like abilities (bonus to jump and survival maybe?) Anyway just some ideas. The easy way to come up with them would be look at the Athasian timeline, pick a name of someone who did soemthing important. Come up with a few abilities that might logically be associated with their vestige, and the profit.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2007 10:14:30	Eh, I prefer to keep pact magic ancient, thank you very much! One of the central themes of Athas is that the world fell from a paradisical state into savage, dying barbarism. Everything is but a faded shadow of the glories of the faded past. This suggests that magical and psionic innovation are things of the past, no longer really practiced. Only the sorcerer-kings have the free time required to invent whole new magical disciplines. Everyone else is too busy surviving to re-invent the wheel. --ergo, my notion of pact magic being ancient NB
#4 brun01 Jan 31, 2007 10:36:58	who used psionic enchantments to preserve themselves, and via themselves, their racial heritage, from ultimate genocide? You mean like, other than inserting their consciousness into huge balls of obsidian and sealing off their domains? :P
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2007 10:40:34	You mean like, other than inserting their consciousness into huge balls of obsidian and sealing off their domains? :P Yes, exactly. Not everyone could've reached the same conclusions. Not everyone had the benefit of extreme geographical distance to save their asses. Some occult researchers must've grown desperate, trying to save their races and racial heritages. --in a world with high levels of magic and abundant psionics, many options exist NB
#6 Oninotaki Jan 31, 2007 12:16:00	I would like to add that I really like the idea of Tithian being a level 1 vestige. I would also like to add that I was disappointed to see that vestiges stop at level 8 instead of level 9 like wizards who's spell progression they were obviously mimicing. I have sence decided that in my campaign there will be level 9 vestiges witch will most likely be departed sorceror-monarchs and an elite vestige or two 1 of which will most certainly be Rajaat. Oh and I also see it as an ancient tradition that goes all the way back to the blue age, and the favored class of the Nikaal.
#7 zombiegleemax Jan 31, 2007 12:27:08	One problem: Wasn't magic so rare in the Blue Age it almost didn't exist? I mean, yeah, there was abundant lifeshaping, but other than that, arcane magic didn't exist, divine magic was rarer than hen's teeth, and psionics wasn't even a possibility. How can you justify planar pactbinding magic showing up, when regular magic was so rare as to be unbelievable? --not meaning to be insulting, but I AM curious as all get out NB
#8 Sysane Jan 31, 2007 12:41:16	One problem: Wasn't magic so rare in the Blue Age it almost didn't exist? I mean, yeah, there was abundant lifeshaping, but other than that, arcane magic didn't exist, divine magic was rarer than hen's teeth, and psionics wasn't even a possibility. How can you justify planar pactbinding magic showing up, when regular magic was so rare as to be unbelievable? --not meaning to be insulting, but I AM curious as all get out NB Elemental magic wasn't necessarily rare in the Blue Age. It could be that pact magic lead the way for elemental magic.
#9 bill_lumberg Jan 31, 2007 15:16:37	Kalak was made into a vestige on the thread Lets Make some New Vestiges. I love binders and think that they are the only new class that really stands out from the others. However, I don't think they fit the flavor of Athas. This is just my opinion. I think that the Gray would absorb most souls instaed of letting them become vestiges. The few sould strong enough to escape the Gray are usually drained to the point of becoming undead.
#10 Oninotaki Jan 31, 2007 16:43:10	Kalak was made into a vestige on the thread Lets Make some New Vestiges. I love binders and think that they are the only new class that really stands out from the others. However, I don't think they fit the flavor of Athas. This is just my opinion. I think that the Gray would absorb most souls instaed of letting them become vestiges. The few sould strong enough to escape the Gray are usually drained to the point of becoming undead. Thanks for that link:D
#11 bill_lumberg Feb 01, 2007 9:44:19	Thanks for that link:D My pleasure.
#12 zombiegleemax Feb 01, 2007 16:24:32	It's been awhile since I read the relevant section in the Tome of Magic, and even then it was more of a quick skim. So I'll be the one to say it: What are vestiges? From what I recall they are sort of archtypal remnants of people or things that once existed (or maybe didn't necessarily exist), and which certain PCs have formed a power-granting bond with. Is this close to right?
#13 Oninotaki Feb 03, 2007 13:32:07	I am working on the following Vestiges as they would fit my campaign beautifully. However I would also love to see the communities ideas for them. Tithian Tool of Rajaat(level 1) Rajaat the Warbringer(level 2) Myron Rajaat's Example(level 3) Atzetuk Sacrificial Son(level 3) Sacha Curse of the Kobolds(level 4) Wyan Blight of the Pixies(level 5) Taraskir the Lion's Shame(level 6) Windreaver Last King of the Trolls(Level 6) Korgunard Hope Betrayed(level 8) Sielba ***** to the Kings(level 8) Abalach-Re the Warbringers Fool(level 9) Oronis The Failure of Hope(level 9) Kalak the Fraud King(level 9) Kalid-Ma(level 9)(need a title for) *I plan on granting access to 9th level vestiges at either 17 or 18th level I would also love to see some more names dregged up from Athas's past that would make cool vestiges. Remember if they ain't undead then theres a good chance they could be a vestige:D
#14 methvezem Feb 03, 2007 16:23:46	You could use Gretch or Qwith as possible vestiges. I was to do one for Gretch, but did not find the time yet.
#15 Oninotaki Feb 03, 2007 17:07:54	You could use Gretch or Qwith as possible vestiges. I was to do one for Gretch, but did not find the time yet. I thought gretch and qwith were undead in the deadlands
#16 methvezem Feb 04, 2007 6:17:44	I thought gretch and qwith were undead in the deadlands My mistake, you are right. Just looked at the timeline and they seem (at least it is officially written for Gretch) effectively to be undead now. Guess I'll have to find about another cool vestige ;). About the vestiges you want to create, isn't Tek more appropriate than Atzetuk? And not the other way around? You could also add Irikos the Sacker of Bodach.
#17 Oninotaki Feb 04, 2007 12:50:15	About the vestiges you want to create, isn't Tek more appropriate than Atzetuk? And not the other way around? You could also add Irikos the Sacker of Bodach. In my campaign Tek spirit teaches and molds Atzetuk untill his body is powerful enougn to hold the essence of Tek, who then possess the body of his "son" . Atzetuk essence is cast out of the body and then becomes a vestige.